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Does DEEP WEB really exist?

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cidamelo
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#1

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:05 PM

Hi friends, I've been reading some articles about deep web, I just can't believe something like this is so easily accessed, is it real or just a myth? wow.gif
http://www.telegraph...hild-abuse.html
http://gawker.com/58...drug-imaginable

Jay
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#2

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:08 PM

It's real.

It's anything that does not get covered by web crawlers, which for most people is all they're ever likely to see. If it's not on Google, it's deep web.

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#3

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:15 PM Edited by El Zilcho, 01 August 2012 - 07:22 PM.

It is real, and exaggerated as some secret zone quite frequently. The majority of the Deep Web is simply un-categorized or non-indexed data, left out by web crawlers such as those used by Google. This renders most of it invisible, by virtue of being undetected. However, most of this is innocuous and uninteresting data dumps or simply pages with no exterior links.

The more interesting and macabre things you'll find on Tor .onion sites (what is commonly refereed to the Deep Web, the deliberately hidden rather than randomly inaccessible) which are usually the illegal / amoral / intriguing content that is protected by its veil of anonymity - child pornography, narcotics sale sites, anarchist and revolutionary forums and terrorism (such as Jihad sites). There are other illegal areas such as stolen goods markets and fake identification, as well as hideously shocking rape fantasy sites (all too worryingly with some basis in fact considering the abundance of paedophiles). Of course there are also amateur sites that play on the Deep Web reputations; such as hoax assassination markets, the fake Human experiments on homeless people, and of imageboards full of gore or supposedly 'banned' books. The majority of these can be accessed by the .onion Hidden Wiki, a catalogue of various different locales.

The Deep Web can be accessed with Tor and other anonymous browsing networks, although I'd recommend multiple proxies if you intend on browsing the more unnerving and questionable content, without fear of prosecution or misunderstandings with the law regarding what you do. If you don't download anything it should be alright, but the fact that the Deep Web is also frequented by hackers means that you can be at risk of many things unrelated to the law, depending on where you go. Be prepared for viruses; there have even been cases of people being watched through their webcams (put black tape over it). Don't ever download .pdfs.

But not a hoax. Exaggerated and steeped in mystique, it is mostly just a haphazard and humongous mess of disorganised data. There is no 'Marinas Web' of exceptionally secretive or fascinating information, just a lot of strange and disgusting content in the mire of the unseen.

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#4

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:28 PM

This is quite interesting. I've never heard of it before. I have a question that I hope someone can shed some light on.

Here's a quote from the article:

QUOTE
The way I see it, in this instance, the Anonymous collective did a public service by exposing it and Lolita City. The authorities either lack the skills to do this, or, they are legally bound not to.


I can understand that people can lack the skills necessary to do something like this but why on Earth would they be legally bound to withhold that kind of information? Is it to protect ongoing cases or something?

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#5

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:34 PM

The way anonymous networks operate makes it nigh impossible to track legitimately (IPs scrambled by routing your connection through nodes). As such, Tor acts simply as a vehicle for anonymity. I don't think they're obliged to give information, or rather they cannot simply due to the nature of the technology. Sites like that frequently more around too, making tracking it intensely difficult. I'm not sure if I'm correct but the raids by 4chan may have been DDOS, which obviously isn't used by law enforcement (it may have been more expositionary than that, I can't recall).

cidamelo
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#6

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:35 PM

Hi friends, thank you for the explanations! But I don't understand, it is just use this TOR thing and you have access to these things?? This is horrible!! I thought those bad things like drug trafficking or child pornography were more hidden!!! cry.gif cry.gif

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#7

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:39 PM Edited by El Zilcho, 01 August 2012 - 07:43 PM.

QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 20:35)
Hi friends, thank you for the explanations? But I don't understand, it is just use this TOR thing and you have access to these things?? This is horrible!! I thought those bad things like drug trafficking or child pornography were more hidden!!!  cry.gif   cry.gif

No. Once you're on Tor, you still have to have find the addresses of sites. This is next to impossible without access to the Hidden Wiki, as with no search engines you're starting from scratch. Of course, this being the internet, there are plenty of resources about with links. Pastebin is a source of lots of addresses, updated periodically. As you can see, the .onion urls are randomly generated and usually change, making it even harder to access. I'm fairly certain that the worst sites are password protected or require membership.

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#8

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 19:35)
bad things like drug trafficking

Please elaborate on your opinion of drugs and their legalization..

860
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#9

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:47 PM

QUOTE (Throw @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 22:40)
QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 19:35)
bad things like drug trafficking

Please elaborate on your opinion of drugs and their legalization..

Why? So you can whip out your epic debating skills? This topic is about the deep web, not drugs. If you feel like debating, go here.

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#10

Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:57 PM

This type of internet sorcery is beyond my skill level, I best stay away from it lest harm be done.

cidamelo
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#11

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

El Zilcho but it's just using these links with TOR, and you're into it? I'm shocked if it is like this! And the drugs really are delivered!! wow.gif
Throw unfortunately I used drugs in my youth but now I'm TOTALLY against it! It just give us a temporaly preasure which guides to major problems! I've lost friends because of it!

El Zilcho
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#12

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:16 PM

QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 21:13)
El Zilcho but it's just using these links with TOR, and you're into it? I'm shocked if it is like this! And the drugs really are delivered!! wow.gif

I'm not quite sure I follow what you're asking. I don't personally access the Deep Web because I'm on a shared computer and it's far too risky to browse willy nilly. Not to mention there isn't much on there for me (apart from the novelty of reading some apparently forbidden stuff, you can most probably get it all screencapped on 4chan if you spend enough time, I' know I've seen a lot on there from Deep Web.) Nevertheless, it's nature intrigues me and so I know a little on it from personal research.

And yes, sites like the Silk Road do deliver. I'm not sure why people would risk a paper trail over local sources, but I'm sure buyers have their motivations.

cidamelo
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#13

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:37 PM

El Zilcho are you brazilian? So I'll ask in Portuguese because my English is very bad tounge2.gif s ter esse tal de TOR e acessar esses links esquisitos desse pastebin, isso a deep web? notify.gif I don't want to access it, no way!! I just want to know if is that easy... ph34r.gif I don't know why many people like this 4chan!! I don't like its layout, it's too messed up!

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#14

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:41 PM

I don't see the big deal. If this stuff happens in real life, it's really not much of a stretch that it'd happen over something as global as the internet. Hell, acts of cannibalism happen over the regular net too in foreign countries less strictly monitored (Armin Meiwes).

Most people who bring it up don't seem to know much about it and are only intrigued cause it's mysterious and has a cool name.

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#15

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:48 PM

I had someone I lived with a while back get into the Deep Web, just to sate his curiosity. Told me he found some sites selling loads of dodgy stuff like guns and hardcore drugs, as well as what he described as "restricted" chemicals. I'd heard about the Deep/Dark Web before obviously, but frankly I'm staying wilfully ignorant. I genuinely don't want to know the true depths of the awfulness of people out there on the internet.

And even if I did, it's hardly worth the chance of ending up on a government watch list.

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#16

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:52 PM

Cida, it's that easy, yes. All you need is a client for an anonymous onion network (TOR or I2P) and an address. If you spend some times on public forums and wikis set up under these networks, you'll learn how to look for things pretty quickly.


I would like to emphasize that while there is a lot of illegal activity on these networks, they are doing more good than harm overall. Anonymous networks are the principle mode of communication between various groups working for human rights in countries where that sort of thing will get you thrown in prison or worse. A lot of people from China, Vietnam, and Middle East are using these networks to get access to the internet without censorship their country imposes.

Giving people who live in countries with dictatorial regimes the freedom to do something about it far outweighs the inconvenience of having some people share illegal pictures or best ways to grow pot in your basement. Access to this information does not really enable child abuse or drug trafficking, which are real problems. Access to this information does enable people to fight dictatorial regimes. It's really pretty straight forward.

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#17

Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:57 PM

Has the Governement ever spoken about "deep web?" because to me this is just wrong and not right in my opinion.

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#18

Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:08 PM

Heard about it before, I've considered buying some weed off there to see if it's any good, but I haven't got round to it yet

El Zilcho
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#19

Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 21:37)
El Zilcho are you brazilian? So I'll ask in Portuguese because my English is very bad  tounge2.gif s ter esse tal de TOR e acessar esses links esquisitos desse pastebin, isso a deep web?  notify.gif I don't want to access it, no way!! I just want to know if is that easy...  ph34r.gif I don't know why many people like this 4chan!! I don't like its layout, it's too messed up!

I'm Brazilian but I was only born there, hence I speak English only (I live in the UK). Sorry tounge.gif

And K^2 has a good point there - these networks provide the only uncensored internet for people worldwide, and so are indispensable, and very much a technology for good. But as humans, our interests are piqued by the darkest depths and hence we find our selves speaking at length about the scum who can be found on the Deep Web. However, K^2, you've also stated a bit of a fallacy there. Criminal gangs who run child prostitution and pornography rings only do so because their clients have a access to these sites... without safeguards on clients anonymity, it stands to reason there would be less of a market, and hence less abuse of children.

cidamelo
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#20

Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:53 PM

K^2 thank you for the explanation alien.gif icon14.gif I am talking about this deep web thing because my newer son (he is 14 years old) said some friends of him accessed terrible things through this deep web (my son said he has never entered it, and so I hope!! angry.gif ) so I was thinking maybe his friends were just lying, but now I know it's true wow.gif Obviously I knew things like these existed on the web, but I thought they were more hidden! Like you've said, deep web has its good side, but I think it's horrible to young and curious kids to have such an easy access to its bad things!!
Captain VXR Have you read the second link? They bought drugs for real!! Shocking! wow.gif It's too 'steampunk'!

El Zilcho
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#21

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:23 PM

Boys will be boys. He's 14, far past being a kid these days. It's reasonable to assume that you, as a parent, would be concerned about something which can be so heinous, but educate him on the risks because chances are you won't be able to completely stop him from browsing, especially since he and his friends have already be on. Chances are they'll lose interest anyway.

K^2
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#22

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:38 PM

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 17:12)
However, K^2, you've also stated a bit of a fallacy there. Criminal gangs who run child prostitution and pornography rings only do so because their clients have a access to these sites... without safeguards on clients anonymity, it stands to reason there would be less of a market, and hence less abuse of children.

Yeah, I exaggerated a bit. These kinds of criminal activities existed and thrived before the internet, so clearly it's not the sort of thing you are going to stop by shutting down anonymous networks. But there is some impact. I should not have dismissed it all together. It is, however, minimal compared to benefits. After all, freedom of speech can also be abused to harm someone. But it's better than the alternative. Ability to distribute any form of information freely without fear of incrimination is important for building and maintaining a free society. Fact that people are forced to hide like this to share certain kinds of data is kind of sad. And ultimately, that makes catching people who do actual harm a lot harder.

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#23

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:39 PM

QUOTE (Dragonjack @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 20:57)
Has the Governement ever spoken about "deep web?" because to me this is just wrong and not right in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure that's not a thing you can be for or against.

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#24

Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 21:53)
K^2 thank you for the explanation alien.gif icon14.gif I am talking about this deep web thing because my newer son (he is 14 years old) said some friends of him accessed terrible things through this deep web (my son said he has never entered it, and so I hope!! angry.gif ) so I was thinking maybe his friends were just lying, but now I know it's true wow.gif Obviously I knew things like these existed on the web, but I thought they were more hidden! Like you've said, deep web has its good side, but I think it's horrible to young and curious kids to have such an easy access to its bad things!!
Captain VXR Have you read the second link? They bought drugs for real!! Shocking! wow.gif It's too 'steampunk'!

Yeah, I've read many articles where people have bought things like LSD off there. Ordering soft drugs I wouldn't find shocking, however the possibility of anyone with TOR and some bitcoins getting smack or PCP delivered to their door is a bit unsettling. I guess it'd be nice to be able to pick and choose strains, and maybe get better prices depending on the source location that makes me want to get some weed off there in the future.

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#25

Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:26 AM

El Zilcho well, he says to me he would never enter in those sites! And I hope so angry.gif

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#26

Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:43 AM

you can't just "enter" any of the really bad sites anyway.
even if you figure out their floating address.

the worst of the Deep Web (child porn, terrorist communications) use a series of passwords that change daily.
they only allow access to new members on an invitation basis. you have to know and be recommended to the community by an existing member.

they're not that stupid.

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#27

Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:46 AM

QUOTE (860 @ Thursday, Aug 2 2012, 01:17)
QUOTE (Throw @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 22:40)
QUOTE (cidamelo @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 19:35)
bad things like drug trafficking

Please elaborate on your opinion of drugs and their legalization..

Why? So you can whip out your epic debating skills? This topic is about the deep web, not drugs. If you feel like debating, go here.

Best post in this topic.

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#28

Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:41 AM

The vast majority of the deep web is nothing at all to be concerned about. It's mostly composed of things like web access hosts for VPN and networking tools that can't be viewed without specialist software (think things like VMWare Fusion), as well as the more obvious deep data like indexing pages, embedded hosted content, password-protected pages that cannot be viewed normally without access credentials, FTP content, unreadable (to normal users) pages built for use in, say, network-enabled SCADA systems, and a whole manner of other sites that aren't designed to be reachable not because they are hiding anything, but because they are utterly useless to the average end-user. It's absolutely vital to anyone who works in computer network security, though, as its in the "deep web" that many companies and organisations mislay things like username and password lists, the remote access points for FTP and VPN clients, virtualisation clients and all kinds of other thing that a determined hacker can use to break into their systems with relative ease, and it's the job of network security professionals to make secure and/or obfuscate.

I fear you (and many others, for that matter) might be confusing the "deep web" with "darknet", which are a very small part of the deep web- that is, hidden, private P2P networks disguised under complex proxies and onion routing, that are used for nefarious purposes such as criminal activity, distribution of illegal materials and dissident political communications in countries such as Iran. The primary difference being that the majority of the deep web can be accessed by an end user (though the amount of it that will make any sense is very much dependent on a whole myriad of factors)- albeit with some difficulty. Darknets in essence do not exist except to individuals given privileged access to them- someone who is looking for one may be able to find it, but still would not be able to access it or garner any information from it without using sophisticated surveillance techniques and tools.

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#29

Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:51 AM

Never heard of it. Nor interested. But am I the only one that thinks DEEP WEB in capitals sounds real dirty?

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#30

Posted 02 August 2012 - 12:07 PM

Nope never heard of it. Sounds like some code name Spiderman would use if he ever turned whistle-blower against a high level government scandal. Tor, VPN, web crawlers, onions. It all sounds so complicated and bizarre, although it is intriguing. Kinda mysterious.




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