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GTAV [Still Out] by March 2013

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MosquitoSmasher
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#151

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:49 PM

QUOTE (BlackandWhite23 @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:47)
QUOTE (MosquitoSmasher @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 01:45)
QUOTE (Audiophile @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:43)
Yes.

TakeTwo said they expect 55% of 1.8 billion from R* before March 2013. The rest of the income will come from TakeTwo and 2K or whatever else. So Borderlands 2 etc.

I think MP3 made like 3 million(?)....I am not sure but it was a disappointment.

What the f*ck, i didn't even realize it. But that would mean only the Max Payne 3 DLC has to make those numbers? Cause from Rockstar Games, nothing else is planned for this year so far.

Yes thats correct But could Three packs make 900 billion and there map packs

I have no knowledge or whatsoever of this, but i hiiiiighly doubt they can make this kind of money with DLC packs. Especially when Max Payne 3 apparently wasn't a smash hit, not a huge succes, and on top of that...that Rockstar announced that the previously five planned DLC packs have no become three large ones. Just a rather curious decision.....

Audiophile
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#152

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:50 PM

I think what happened with the MP3 DLC today is because R* finally gave up on it, just wants to get the DLC's out and slowly start their GTA V marketing.

Whatever the reason, I think they realized they just need to GTFO with MP3 and it's DLC.

MosquitoSmasher
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#153

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:52 PM

QUOTE (Audiophile @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:49)
QUOTE (MosquitoSmasher @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:45)
QUOTE (Audiophile @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:43)
Yes.

TakeTwo said they expect 55% of 1.8 billion from R* before March 2013. The rest of the income will come from TakeTwo and 2K or whatever else. So Borderlands 2 etc.

I think MP3 made like 3 million(?)....I am not sure but it was a disappointment.

What the f*ck, i didn't even realize it. But that would mean only the Max Payne 3 DLC has to make those numbers? Cause from Rockstar Games, nothing else is planned for this year so far.

That's why it can only be GTA V coming soon to help R* get those numbers, IMO.

Remember in the conference they said they expect this from such and such titles and also UNANNOUNCED titles. Or yet to be announced. I don't remember the exact wording but I think that is code for GTA V. TakeTwo had to be very careful. They can't just come out and say anything that would hint to people it was for sure GTA V.

Yeah i'm really starting to see your point now. I didn't listen to the call, but i did follow the thread and Zelnick indeed said 'unannounced titles' but does he mean that in the sense of that unannounced titles from now till March 2013? Or after March? And if he means GTA V with unannounced, i assume he means unannounced release date?

BlackLightning
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#154

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:55 PM

55 percent of 1.8 billion from Cockstar before March is all you need to know. So there's your window. If they want to capitalize on this holiday season and maximize profits, they will release it this year. Next year, prior to March, is already crowded with four triple A titles -- Tomb Raider, Gears of War 4, God of War: Ascension, and Bioshock: Infinite. So next year is out. It will come out this year, guaranteed.

The__Phoenix
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#155

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Audiophile @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:43)
Yes.

TakeTwo said they expect 55% of 1.8 billion from R* before March 2013. The rest of the income will come from TakeTwo and 2K or whatever else. So Borderlands 2 etc.

I think MP3 made like 3 million(?)....I am not sure but it was a disappointment.

The picture is more or less this; 60% of revenue (≈ $1.1 billion) from Rockstar Games and 40% (≈ $700 million) from 2K Games.
For Rockstar the estimation is that Max Payne 3 would contribute up to $250 million depending on DLC, with $150 million from catalog sales of other Rockstar games(GTA III era games).
The remaining $700 million is not possible without a GTA V release before FY end.

Audiophile
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#156

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:56 PM

@MosquitoSmasher
I think he meant GTA V based on how it was said. I think it was for before March 2013 because they were talking about this upcoming fiscal quarter but I am not 100% sure. It makes sense to me to mean before the end of March 2013 as they discused how they expect to meet that goal of 1.8 billion.

I listened to the entire conference call and Zelnick even admitted that MP3 was a disappointment. Hence why I think they had to adjust expected earnings from R* down to 55% of 1.8 billion from 60% which is from the last conference, before MP3's release.

Before MP3's release TTWO expected 60% of 1.8 billion from R*. This was in May. After MP3's release, they adjusted the numbers down to 55% today.

I think a lot of people were pissed today because they expected some kind of info or legit release date. This financial conference was never about that. And I personally never expected that. I just wanted to see the numbers, to see a possible release window. And we got one...the numbers remain the same with a slight adjustment of $2 per share from $2.20 and 55% from R* instead of 60%

Ispintechno
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#157

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:57 PM

QUOTE (baguvix_wanrltw @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:38)
I know we're currently discussing the game testers but... would anyone care to enlighten me why that (admittedly, random) theory of mine about a III era HD box is being ignored?

Do you think it's just too unlikely or are you in denial? Serious question.

It's just that I don't want to see everyone jumping onto the next hype train (which has been going for a while, the FY13 one) before we can say anything for sure.

Audiophile, you explained already that you think it's because of R* saying GTA V would be their next game. But technically III era games are old games so who knows if R* would count them or not.

Any thoughts? Sadly mvega doesn't seem to be around anymore, I'd love to hear what he thinks.


Gtaghost22: Well, MP3 made them a lot of money for this FY too, I think someone mentioned 600 million or something? So it's "only" around a billion they need in the next 8 months.

I would love a remake of 3rd era GTA's in HD, but it a question of resources. North is making GTAV, in Canada R* is being restructured to move operations to Toronto, San Fran is probably working on Agent which is slated for 12-18 months for now. Makes sense they have been spearheading the project after red dead in '10.

As much as I think it would be successful, it's a gamble and the asking price would be low per DL while having to recreate 3 old games isn't totally without resources. Be risky and not really necessary to the portfolio. I think R* would love to make something else as big as GTA but not GTA to stay relevant in the future. My opinion we'll get new platform old releases in vanilla flavour. Could hopefully be wrong on that one though. But IMO if you evaluate the effort/return it would do nearly as well unmastered in HD. Same number of people would essentially buy it.

baguvix_wanrltw
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#158

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:58 PM

So just to get this straight:

Between $1.7billion and $1.8billion in revenue are expected by T2 for FY13 (Source: http://ir.take2games...531&highlight=)

Rockstar is supposedly responsible for 55% of that (same source).

That means R* is supposed to make T2 between $935 million and $990 million this fiscal year which ends on March 31st 2013.

So far R* has only sold something between 2 and 3 million copies of MP3.

Let's just imagine (I have no real numbers onhand, sorry) they made $30 for each of those copies, that would mean between $60 million and $90 million.

So that leaves roughly $850 million to be made with other stuff.

Ok, there is...

- MP3 DLC

- GTA III mobile

- Max Payne mobile

- GTA III PS2/3

Let's be generous and say that's another 100 million.

That still leaves $750 million.

Assuming the $30/game figure I used above was more or less accurate, that would mean they'd have to sell 25 million full price games in the next 8 months.

Let's say MP3 will sell the same amount again and the DLC, GTA III mobile and PS3 versions as well as Max Payne mobile make yet another 100 million...

Even then they'd have to sell 21.6 million more full price games until March 31st 2013.


Citing from http://en.wikipedia...._Theft_Auto_IV:
QUOTE
As of September 2011, the game had shipped over 22 million copies.



Hm... maybe you guys are right. 22 million copies of that HD box I dreamed up don't seem realistic to me.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Magic_Al
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#159

Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:59 PM

We can narrow down the $1.8 billion to $1.3 billion in the relevant October-March timeframe because up to $476.1 million is accounted for by the end of the current quarter ending in September. Any number with a billion in it is a number that needs GTA V.

Although GTA V wasn't officially announced until 10/26/11, in hindsight it was financially indicated since 5/24/11 when Take-Two first gave the $2.0 EPS guidance for FY2013. That means GTA V has had an internal release date for over 14 months and hasn't been delayed yet. Isn't that good?

Cutter De Blanc
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#160

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (baguvix_wanrltw @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:45)
I see, apparently my numbers of MP3 sales were off quite a lot: vgchartz claims 0.99 million sales for 360, 0.83 for PS3 and 0.15 for PC so MP3 couldn't have made much.

I think I should go to sleep soon wink.gif

Yeah even at 60 bucks a pop (which is more thasn retailers pay for it, I was just being generous with my estimate) 3 million copies is only $180 mil.

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#161

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:00 AM

@baguvix_wanrltw

You see, man....

This is why I BELIEVE in 2012 so far.

Don't think about all the "we haz no infoz yet dafuq not possible". This is GTA. They could start marketing 3 months before release like with SA and still sell a sh*tload of copies.

Just forget all that and look at the facts we DO have. The numbers don't lie.

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#162

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:01 AM

God Zelnick is such a douchebag. I raged hard at him going "Yeah we just haven't announced anything yet" in response to being asked about when Agent could possibly see the light of day. That game was one of the reasons I got a PS3... Over three years ago. f*ck him.

It's a wonder any shareholder bothers participating in these meetings when the raw data is available online, as they're never going to get any meaningful answers out of this guy.

wwinterj
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#163

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:02 AM

QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:46)
-January 2013: everybody spent thier money on christmas, terrible time to release a game

-February 2013: Bioshock: Infinte will be released this month, so there is no way in hell we will see GTA V in feb.

-March 2013: too close to Bioshock (26th feb) and it's impossible to meet thier predicted earnings in just one month before the fiscal year ends

GTA V won't be released in january, february or march. Period

This. Seeing the game this year though seems a bit of a stretch.

Adriaan
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#164

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:04 AM Edited by Adriaan, 01 August 2012 - 12:07 AM.

@baguvix_wanrltw
VGChartz doesn't get direct reporting from retailers, and Steam doesn't report sales. VGChartz have always been way off with Rockstar's reported numbers.

@bud_23
While it may seem that way, I don't think T2 is misleading or has mislead in the past. With last year, they did expect Max Payne to release in the reported fiscal year, but as it was at the very back-end, its delay caused it to slip into the following fiscal year.

They certainly have to be careful of course though. If the game gets delayed from "TBA" to the next fiscal year, that won't look good. I mean, you can't really call it a "delay" if you didn't provide a release date on it, right?

I think Strauss have hinted at the reasoning behind not outright saying it, in that they don't want to walk over Rockstar's marketing plans. While core fans know things point to this fiscal year, the majority of the general consumer base that are interested in the title have no clue when it is released (this is why you see so many "It's coming out in May-July" speculative posts periodically here).

So they don't want to tread on whatever Rockstar have planned, whatever that may be.

Certainly the previous management, specifically Paul Eibeler, was more open about revealing stuff during these conferences... and I remember him revealing some new, interesting stuff through them before R* said anything. That doesn't appear to be Strauss' style though.

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#165

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Audiophile @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:50)
I think what happened with the MP3 DLC today is because R* finally gave up on it, just wants to get the DLC's out and slowly start their GTA V marketing.

Whatever the reason, I think they realized they just need to GTFO with MP3 and it's DLC.

Nobody who doesn't play MP3 is a potential buyer for MP3 DLCs. Therefor with a smallish install base making lots of money on DLCs is impossible. They probably will sell for half original value as Max Payne 3 the game is now for sale retail at half value.
It's a big disappointment for R*/T2 I'm sure.

MosquitoSmasher
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#166

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Audiophile @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:00)
@baguvix_wanrltw

You see, man....

This is why I BELIEVE in 2012 so far.

Don't think about all the "we haz no infoz yet dafuq not possible". This is GTA. They could start marketing 3 months before release like with SA and still sell a sh*tload of copies.

Just forget all that and look at the facts we DO have. The numbers don't lie.

Yeah i'm starting to see that now. That same kind of marketing happened with GTA SA, however...that was long ago. The marketing for GTA IV, RDR, La Noire and MP3 went way different, or did it? Not sure.

But indeed, those numbers don't lie. By that logic..it's a given that V is gonna come out before the year's end. It definitely is a interesting situation, that's for damn sure.

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#167

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:06 AM Edited by baguvix_wanrltw, 01 August 2012 - 12:08 AM.

QUOTE (wwinterj @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:02)
This. Seeing the game this year though seems a bit of a stretch.

Well, unless R* have at least one BIIIIG surprise up their sleeves FY13 seems like the realistic bet for V indeed - unless of course T2 lied, or R* have two or more not quite as big surprises coming up.

I'm starting to believe in the 2-3 month marketing plan again. Oh glorious day wink.gif

...could still be Agent and the HD pack combined though. Goddammit. But I still think Agent is dead so...

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#168

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Adriaan @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 18:04)
@baguvix_wanrltw
VGChartz doesn't get direct reporting from retailers, and Steam doesn't report sales. VGChartz have always been way off with Rockstar's reported numbers.

The gap between Rockstar and VGChartz is because they're counting different things. Take-Two may report sell-in while VGChartz reports sell-thru. Take-Two gets their money when retailers buy it to resell. If they sold 3 million MP3 then 3 million minus current sell-thru is how much retailers still have on the shelf from their first order.

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#169

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE (MosquitoSmasher @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:05)
QUOTE (Audiophile @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:00)
@baguvix_wanrltw

You see, man....

This is why I BELIEVE in 2012 so far.

Don't think about all the "we haz no infoz yet dafuq not possible". This is GTA. They could start marketing 3 months before release like with SA and still sell a sh*tload of copies.

Just forget all that and look at the facts we DO have. The numbers don't lie.

Yeah i'm starting to see that now. That same kind of marketing happened with GTA SA, however...that was long ago. The marketing for GTA IV, RDR, La Noire and MP3 went way different, or did it? Not sure.

But indeed, those numbers don't lie. By that logic..it's a given that V is gonna come out before the year's end. It definitely is a interesting situation, that's for damn sure.

Well marketing is a lot "easier" and reaches more these days with Twitter and FB etc being so popular.

The second there is new GTA V info, most of the social media world knows because it's all over Twitter.


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#170

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:11 AM

@Magic_Al
Hah, yes. Funny because I've been telling people the same lately around here when they say GTAV has to release in October to meet expected sales (as I've pointed out, there's a difference between titles "shipped" and titles sold, meaning R* can actually release the game in March, ship more than they will sell, and meet their revenue projections). I'm sure Wal-Mart and GameStop can get the required financing.

That said, I have heard from someone very closely tight to the industry that VGChartz' numbers can sometimes not be that accurate, especially when it comes to preorder numbers.

MosquitoSmasher
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#171

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:13 AM

QUOTE (Audiophile @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:08)
QUOTE (MosquitoSmasher @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:05)
QUOTE (Audiophile @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:00)
@baguvix_wanrltw

You see, man....

This is why I BELIEVE in 2012 so far.

Don't think about all the "we haz no infoz yet dafuq not possible". This is GTA. They could start marketing 3 months before release like with SA and still sell a sh*tload of copies.

Just forget all that and look at the facts we DO have. The numbers don't lie.

Yeah i'm starting to see that now. That same kind of marketing happened with GTA SA, however...that was long ago. The marketing for GTA IV, RDR, La Noire and MP3 went way different, or did it? Not sure.

But indeed, those numbers don't lie. By that logic..it's a given that V is gonna come out before the year's end. It definitely is a interesting situation, that's for damn sure.

Well marketing is a lot "easier" and reaches more these days with Twitter and FB etc being so popular.

The second there is new GTA V info, most of the social media world knows because it's all over Twitter.

Very true. Well i'm looking forward to what could happen this month, no big expectations though, that's never a good idea. Just like you...if we got nothing at end of August/early Sep, i'll give up. For now...Breaking Bad S5-Ep 3 time wink.gif

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#172

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:16 AM

Speaking of marketing, anyone remember the big, prime spot, right near the ball-drop in Times Square at New Year's eve a few years back? Big billboard advertising GTA Episodes from Liberty, which the cameras broadcasting the celebrations couldn't miss due to its placement. I wonder if we'll see a billboard this year for V...

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#173

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:23 AM Edited by BlackLightning, 01 August 2012 - 12:26 AM.

QUOTE (baguvix_wanrltw @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:06)
QUOTE (wwinterj @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:02)
This. Seeing the game this year though seems a bit of a stretch.

Well, unless R* have at least one BIIIIG surprise up their sleeves FY13 seems like the realistic bet for V indeed - unless of course T2 lied, or R* have two or more not quite as big surprises coming up.

I'm starting to believe in the 2-3 month marketing plan again. Oh glorious day wink.gif

...could still be Agent and the HD pack combined though. Goddammit. But I still think Agent is dead so...


It's not Agent. A basically unknown PS3 exclusive is not going to outsell three big, multiplatform games. Besides, if it were Agent, the marketing for the game would have already started just like it did with their other mostly unknown IPs, eg., LA Noire, Red Dead Redemption and Max Payne 3.

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#174

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:31 AM

QUOTE (BlackLightning @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:23)
QUOTE (baguvix_wanrltw @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:06)
QUOTE (wwinterj @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:02)
This. Seeing the game this year though seems a bit of a stretch.

Well, unless R* have at least one BIIIIG surprise up their sleeves FY13 seems like the realistic bet for V indeed - unless of course T2 lied, or R* have two or more not quite as big surprises coming up.

I'm starting to believe in the 2-3 month marketing plan again. Oh glorious day wink.gif

...could still be Agent and the HD pack combined though. Goddammit. But I still think Agent is dead so...


It's not Agent. A basically unknown PS3 exclusive is not going to outsell three big, multiplatform games. Besides, if it were Agent, the marketing for the game would have already started just like it did with their other mostly unknown IPs, eg., LA Noire, Red Dead Redemption and Max Payne 3.

A PS3 exclusive from R* must be a dead deal by now. Sony would have to pay hundreds of millions.
Sounds like from what we heard today Agent is indeed alive and well and expected to release in 12-18 months from today, Xbox has the biggest market share. This is coming from a PS3 gamer, the Sony deal has to be dead. If even under penalty.

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#175

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:31 AM Edited by finn4life, 01 August 2012 - 12:37 AM.

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 11:08)
QUOTE (Adriaan @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 18:04)
@baguvix_wanrltw
VGChartz doesn't get direct reporting from retailers, and Steam doesn't report sales. VGChartz have always been way off with Rockstar's reported numbers.

The gap between Rockstar and VGChartz is because they're counting different things. Take-Two may report sell-in while VGChartz reports sell-thru. Take-Two gets their money when retailers buy it to resell. If they sold 3 million MP3 then 3 million minus current sell-thru is how much retailers still have on the shelf from their first order.

TakeTwo still would have had to have actually sold the game to say they were sold, most retailers don't pay the supplier until they sell them.

Remember before when they said they had "Shipped" 3 million copies just after the release of Max Payne 3, (Source) now they are saying they have sold over 3 million.
These numbers makes sense since 1.8 million have been sold according to VG chartz for consoles and Steam doesn't release sales figures and PC is the lead platform for Max Payne, so their 3 million figure is most likely sold not shipped.

Also Baguvix, reading your post is very difficult when every sentence is double spaced, you do not need a new paragraph for every sentence and it just looks messy.

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#176

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:34 AM

QUOTE (wwinterj @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 19:02)
QUOTE (Gtaghost22 @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 23:46)
-January 2013: everybody spent thier money on christmas, terrible time to release a game

-February 2013: Bioshock: Infinte will be released this month, so there is no way in hell we will see GTA V in feb.

-March 2013: too close to Bioshock (26th feb) and it's impossible to meet thier predicted earnings in just one month before the fiscal year ends

GTA V won't be released in january, february or march. Period

This. Seeing the game this year though seems a bit of a stretch.

No, it isn't. It makes no business sense at all to release in either of the first three months next year. It's coming this year. It has to.

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#177

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE (Adriaan @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 18:11)
@Magic_Al
Hah, yes. Funny because I've been telling people the same lately around here when they say GTAV has to release in October to meet expected sales (as I've pointed out, there's a difference between titles "shipped" and titles sold, meaning R* can actually release the game in March, ship more than they will sell, and meet their revenue projections). I'm sure Wal-Mart and GameStop can get the required financing.

That said, I have heard from someone very closely tight to the industry that VGChartz' numbers can sometimes not be that accurate, especially when it comes to preorder numbers.

I'd assume VGChartz is sticking to sell-thru numbers in which case pre-orders don't figure at all.
If we look at GTA IV, Take-Two put out a press release specifying first week sell-through of "approximately 6 million". That squares with VGChartz's week 1 total of 5.8 million. That, in turn, squares with a stunningly accurate pre-launch estimate from Janco Partners analyst Mike Hickey who predicted 5.8 million at launch. One would think analysts call around and try to get a grip on the sell-in rather than pull a number of thin air.

Take-Two can count all the shipments to stores before launch in their financials so in theory they could release it on the last day in March and count millions of units that haven't sold-thru yet. But, is it realistic to think stores are going to stock up on 10 million or more copies in advance of launch? I doubt it. They'll stock up but it's not like FedEx will be taking the week off to play the game themselves.

Retailers have to be feeling pretty burned by Max Payne 3 and that could make their GTA V stocking order slightly more wait-and-see even though they know it'll be the best thing since GTA IV.

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#178

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:37 AM

QUOTE (Ispintechno @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 00:31)
Sounds like from what we heard today Agent is indeed alive and well and expected to release in 12-18 months from today

W00t? All they said was basically "no comment", where the hell do you get "we're working on it and it's coming in a year" from?!?

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#179

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:39 AM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Wednesday, Aug 1 2012, 11:35)
QUOTE (Adriaan @ Tuesday, Jul 31 2012, 18:11)
@Magic_Al
Hah, yes. Funny because I've been telling people the same lately around here when they say GTAV has to release in October to meet expected sales (as I've pointed out, there's a difference between titles "shipped" and titles sold, meaning R* can actually release the game in March, ship more than they will sell, and meet their revenue projections). I'm sure Wal-Mart and GameStop can get the required financing.

That said, I have heard from someone very closely tight to the industry that VGChartz' numbers can sometimes not be that accurate, especially when it comes to preorder numbers.

I'd assume VGChartz is sticking to sell-thru numbers in which case pre-orders don't figure at all.

VGchartz has a pre-order chart as well.

Ispintechno
  • Ispintechno

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#180

Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:43 AM

So this year, remembering MP3 is still kicking lets say it does achieve $250,000,000. Another $20,000,000 in DLC.
$150,000,000 R* catalog. $420,000,000 total.

So that leaves what, $430,000,000 left for R* to produce?

Seems to rule out October for GTAV. GTAV presales + first month release plus room for evaluation at a not maximum potential leaves GTAV late December or early January. Definitely not a fall release, it's a winter title. Not usual, but there would be little benefit in holding the game when it is finished to be strategic for lesser titles regardless of friend or foe, so the numbers jive. 2K has also moved out of the way for this.
If R* could launch GTAV in October I think the evaluation be even higher.

True?




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