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Big Smoke [Spoilers]

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A2 MFK
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#1

Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:54 PM

(Entire article contains spoilers)

Maybe I'm just being dumb here, but I never really understood Big Smoke's role in the plot of GTA SA, he wasn't a main antagonist and I personally never really saw him as being morally screwed up like Tenpenny.

In the beginning of the story line, he seems to be a bit of a comic relief as shown in missions like "Drive thru" but he always seemed so philosophical. "Man if you could eat your food, while everyone else was loosing there's, and blaming you, you straight homie" and "I admire you Carl, you're a leader, a visionary, remember me when you get to the top" he also talks about reading poetry and other non-gangster like practices. Even in the final mission, he says "Look at you Carl, you've got the whole world! I ain't got no regrets man!"

Admittedly, despite liking Eazy-E's music, I was fine with icing Ryder because he annoyed me and I always found his loyalty questionable. But I never really understood Smoke, was he actually evil or just stupid?

I know he is criticized by younger players for being over weight and for the line "All you had to do was follow the damn train CJ!" But until the green Sabre, Smoke was the only one who seemed to take CJ seriously. Sweet hated him for fleeing the west coast and Ryder just thought he was a "Busta" but like I said, I never really understood Smoke.

Am I reading too much into this or am I missing something?

DarrinPA
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#2

Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:05 PM

QUOTE (A2 MFK @ Wednesday, Jun 27 2012, 16:54)
I never really understood Smoke, was he actually evil or just stupid?

Neither. He doesn't see things the way they are. I think at first Big Smoke had pity for Carl because he knew he was responisble for the death of CJ's mom, but in a twisted way he couldn't feel too sorry because he probably rationalized* it as being 'neccessary'. He wasn't quite of this world, he had created his own world in his mind.

*In psychology, rationalization (also known as making excuses) is an unconscious defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable – or even admirable and superior – by plausible means.
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RearNaked
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#3

Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:52 PM

Big Smoke, Fat Joke. Fat motherf*cker who as good as killed CJ's mother.

Evil? There is no good and evil, people do crazy things to get ahead, become a somebody and achieve their dreams. I bet you've never been surrounded by your enemies in a stinking wet swamp, have you? None of this desert storm bullsh*t, that was a war! Man, I get a giant boner every time I think of it.

A2 MFK
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#4

Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:10 AM

QUOTE (RearNaked @ Monday, Jul 2 2012, 21:52)
Big Smoke, Fat Joke. Fat motherf*cker who as good as killed CJ's mother.

Evil? There is no good and evil, people do crazy things to get ahead, become a somebody and achieve their dreams. I bet you've never been surrounded by your enemies in a stinking wet swamp, have you? None of this desert storm bullsh*t, that was a war! Man, I get a giant boner every time I think of it.

I have no idea what you just said, but it sounded very patriotic...
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Boyz2Society
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#5

Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:56 PM Edited by lil weasel, 23 July 2014 - 03:56 AM. Merged.

EDIT: << merged new topic into existing topic >>

Am I the only one who knew that Big Smoke would become a traitor?

Seriously, I see so many GTA SA fans talking about they wouldn't have expected Smoke to become a traitor. But I feel like I'm the only one who knew that he would betray the main character and here are the clues.
 
1. He was at the Johnson family's house during Ms. Johnson's funeral.
 
2. In the mission Drive Thru, when Ryder was talking about how the Ballas killed Ms. Johnson, Smoke tried to keep him quiet about it.
 
3. When CJ and Sweet are discussing it, Smoke tries to digress from the topic
 
4. On the same mission, when the Ballas were shooting at the homies, Smoke refused to shoot at them.
 
5. His house is in Idlewood, which is the Ballas' turf.
 
6. His new car at the beginning of the game.
 
Honestly, people were so convinced of his niceness during the beginning of the game, but to me, him being overly nice all the time made me very suspicious of his actions. Hell, wasn't he the one who actually convinced Ryder into joining the Ballas in the first place? So that means that Ryder was never planning on turning into a traitor until Smoke convinced him. So I'm probably the only guy here who knew Smoke would be a traitor eventually, based on those clues I mentioned.

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#6

Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:48 PM

He didnt really turn traitor, IMO, he just had a diffrent view on life. Which uncluded selling drugs, which CJ was against. I see where youre coming from and agree though. Did he betray though? Maybe sweet, but not CJ (i guess since there brothers he betrayed them both, but stll)

Offtopic:
Also, here a random personal speculation to toatally ruin you're idea of the story:
What if in green sabre, smoke, ryder, ballas and tenpenny where actually rying to get rid of the green sabre, but CJ thught differently? What if i was all a test for CJ to see if hes got what it takes to be a gsf member, but he gets dragged along in other adventures aswell.

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#7

Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:16 PM

I knew that Smoke hide something from CJ when I saw Tenpenny and Pulaski with Smoke two times.

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#8

Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:43 PM

He just had a different view on life. Which included selling drugs, which CJ was against.

Selling drugs. Almost whole grove street was against drugs, and Smoke couldn't sell them to others, so he was slowly pushing drugs and moving out of grove street - it wasn't his aunt's money - it was drugs.


He wasn't a main antagonist.

Yup - look at GTA IV missions the last mission - wasn't the last mission, after that then it's the last mission, like firstly having to shut down Dimitri, and then appears you'll have to kill Pegorino

 

This time, you kill Smoke, and THEN it's the main antagonist - Tenpenny. He was dead, he almost killed your friend - Sweet - like in GTA IV - Kate.


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#9

Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:34 PM

(Entire article contains spoilers)

Maybe I'm just being dumb here, but I never really understood Big Smoke's role in the plot of GTA SA, he wasn't a main antagonist and I personally never really saw him as being morally screwed up like Tenpenny.

In the beginning of the story line, he seems to be a bit of a comic relief as shown in missions like "Drive thru" but he always seemed so philosophical. "Man if you could eat your food, while everyone else was loosing there's, and blaming you, you straight homie" and "I admire you Carl, you're a leader, a visionary, remember me when you get to the top" he also talks about reading poetry and other non-gangster like practices. Even in the final mission, he says "Look at you Carl, you've got the whole world! I ain't got no regrets man!"

Admittedly, despite liking Eazy-E's music, I was fine with icing Ryder because he annoyed me and I always found his loyalty questionable. But I never really understood Smoke, was he actually evil or just stupid?

I know he is criticized by younger players for being over weight and for the line "All you had to do was follow the damn train CJ!" But until the green Sabre, Smoke was the only one who seemed to take CJ seriously. Sweet hated him for fleeing the west coast and Ryder just thought he was a "Busta" but like I said, I never really understood Smoke.

Am I reading too much into this or am I missing something?

On drive thru smoke didnt want to kill the members because he was working for them but ryder shot him so ryder wasnt loayal to the ballas and vagos and tenpenny


mrkickman05
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#10

Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:56 PM

ok let me tell you some sh*t big smoke wanted to take over the world tenpenny wanted to take over the world cj stops them which the world turns piece but before all this big smoke moved out of grove to sell drugs and big smoke convinced ryder to turn so its not ryders fault its big smokes fault

 

and why would smoke be at moms house cause before the had a bonus intro where it shows big smoke with ballers. on drive thru smoek didnt shoot the ballers. smoke to tryed to make a new conversion after they start talking about moms or ballers on. driveby smoke had to shoot at ballers so he wont blow his cover.

 

and 1 more reason that you could tell that big smoke was bad he was talking all this sh*t about poetry and how cj would come to the top of the world which hullio mentioned a little bit later but 2 lines said cj remember me when you get to the top and how he would get to the top so yeah BIG SMOKE YOU BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTCH


Am Shaegar
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#11

Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:06 AM

An in-depth analysis on Big Smoke's role in GTA SA is finally up on YouTube.
Part 1
Spoiler


Part 2
Spoiler


That should prove immensely helpful for the topic in understanding Big Smoke's character - one of the finest anatagonist written over other bland, generic mob bosses in the series.
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IrishRepublican
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#12

Posted 31 January 2018 - 10:46 PM

Favorite character, his long ass order at Burgershot.  Broke my heart when he did what he did.  Not spoiling anything.


anthony
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#13

Posted 01 February 2018 - 06:27 PM

An in-depth analysis on Big Smoke's role in GTA SA is finally up on YouTube.
Part 1

Spoiler


Part 2
Spoiler


That should prove immensely helpful for the topic in understanding Big Smoke's character - one of the finest anatagonist written over other bland, generic mob bosses in the series.

 

Damn, you are fast. Yes these analysis are very interesting, love his videos..along with jimmy's, los santos cast and zmoonchild's videos, amazing what these guys are doing these days on GTA SA.

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Journey_95
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#14

Posted 01 February 2018 - 09:53 PM

Always liked Big Smoke as a character, his betrayal was shocking (although you can see it coming..) and I liked his relationship with CJ. Seemed to be the only one who didn't give him any sh*t.

 

I wish he had a bigger role in the last arc though, unlike Tenpenny Smoke doesn't really appear again until the very end.


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#15

Posted 02 February 2018 - 11:06 AM

One of the subtleties I really enjoyed about Smoke's character is hearing his testimony on the radio occasionally, bragging about how much he's doing for the community and how much he loves them. It's a sobering moment because at this point you've learned the truth about his betrayal and you're often slap bang in the middle of sorting out some of the mess in one way or another. I imagine it must feel like daggers to hear your former friend going on like that, especially when another radio host is also singing their praises.

 

It's so easy to play through the entire game and not hear it, as it completely depends on whether you listen to WCTR. It's a very nice touch. This news segment below contains the clip.

 


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#16

Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:30 AM Edited by lil weasel, 05 February 2018 - 03:36 PM.

One of the subtleties I really enjoyed about Smoke's character is hearing his testimony on the radio occasionally, bragging about how much he's doing for the community and how much he loves them. It's a sobering moment because at this point you've learned the truth about his betrayal and you're often slap bang in the middle of sorting out some of the mess in one way or another. I imagine it must feel like daggers to hear your former friend going on like that, especially when another radio host is also singing their praises.
 
It's so easy to play through the entire game and not hear it, as it completely depends on whether you listen to WCTR. It's a very nice touch. This news segment below contains the clip.

WCTR is the most boring Radio station in game but it's good for youtubers who need to avoid copyright




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