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Teen Pregnancy/Maternity

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LBYN
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#1

Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:14 AM

I occurred to me today as I was scanning through my Facebook feed that teen pregnancy in 15-16 year olds is being glamourized, praised even, rather than controlled or in the least shunned. Now why is that? Last time I checked, people aren't done maturing until they are roughly 20-25, maybe even later. This means that at the age of 15 and 16 and 17, no one is mentally mature enough to look after another human life and raise it. The teen parents will most likely drop out of high school, have their parents pay for the child's needs, and either keep looking to their parents for the funds to support them, or look to the Government for help.

That last one really gets me too. Not only did the teen parents most likely drop out of high school, but now they are making under the poverty line for income, and expect the Government to cover for everything. And where does the Government get their money. The taxpayers of course, which means that the working class, middle of America worker has to pay for the negligence and immaturity of teen parents all over the country.

Now, I understand not all teen pregnancy cases come from negligence or immaturity, as some may not have the girl's fault. The man in the relationship could have been totally at fault, and violent to the woman and proceeded to rape her. I get it, I honestly do. But that means the woman wouldn't want the result of the emotionally scarring experience crying next to her in the shampoo section of the local Wal-Mart would she? In most cases, I would think not, and that is why adoption centers and foster care centers are available.

I recently read a news story about a 19 year old mother who left her kid in a baby seat on the roof of her car. She then proceeded to drive off while the kid in the baby seat was still on top of the car, and inadvertently, fell off the back as the mother continued to drive. The kid was alright, for everyone's sake, but is that the kind of immaturity and negligence that parents and friends should be proud of? I have at least 6 people in my district who are in the process of having children. Six! They range in age of 15-17. And everyone tells them how proud they are of them and how it's a wonderful thing. That kind of sentiment makes me sick. Shows like Teen Mom and its many spin off's, government help, and the emotional support of close friends and family members, it's all starting to get out of hand.

Now I'm not saying teens shouldn't have sex or what not. I'm not a religious nut case, or even religious for that matter. But the fact is that they should use some sort of protection until they are mentally mature enough to take that next step, or be willing to pay the consequences, not be glamourized and praised for their actions.

Discuss this.

I am open to different opinions and views on the subject at hand. Thank you for taking the time to read my view on it.

Chunkyman
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#2

Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:38 AM

A combination of a completely broken public education system and bad parenting are the big culprits.

It's also because the state massively subsidizes this kind of behavior. moto_whistle.gif

sivispacem
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#3

Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 02:14)
Last time I checked, people aren't done maturing until they are roughly 20-25, maybe even later. This means that at the age of 15 and 16 and 17, no one is mentally mature enough to look after another human life and raise it.

This is very subjective and individuals specific. I know people who had children at 16 who I would consider to be easily mature enough; they had life plans, worked in good jobs and made committed and excellent parents. Conversely, I know people who had children at 30 who were about as mature as a 6-week-old puppy. You are, as a general rule, correct though- the likelihood of people being mature enough to give children a good life at such a young age is considerably lower than those who are more developed in their life plans, aspirations and maturity.

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 02:14)
The teen parents will most likely drop out of high school, have their parents pay for the child's needs, and either keep looking to their parents for the funds to support them, or look to the Government for help.

Again, this is a generalisation. It happens, that's for sure, but it isn't a general rule. I know people who had children young who have managed to juggle careers for both parents and childcare- especially those who run their own businesses, who can really alter their working hours to suit other requirements. I'm not sure, in terms of proportion, how many children had by teenagers grow up as "welfare babies" but I don't think its fair to tar everyone with the same brush here.

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 02:14)
That last one really gets me too. Not only did the teen parents most likely drop out of high school, but now they are making under the poverty line for income, and expect the Government to cover for everything. And where does the Government get their money. The taxpayers of course, which means that the working class, middle of America worker has to pay for the negligence and immaturity of teen parents all over the country.

This isn't just a problem with younger people, though. Here in the UK there are families that have gone three or four generations with no member having a full-time job. In some cases these are through no fault of the parents (serious injury or illness, for instance) but many are just work-shy. And in terms of welfare provisions, you are entitled to far "more" if you are older, especially in the UK where things like housing benefit are seldom granted to people under 18 or 21, depending on circumstances; or where schemes exist which essentially force younger individuals into work or training programmes if they remain unemployed for a certain period of time.

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 02:14)
I recently read a news story about a 19 year old mother who left her kid in a baby seat on the roof of her car. She then proceeded to drive off while the kid in the baby seat was still on top of the car, and inadvertently, fell off the back as the mother continued to drive. The kid was alright, for everyone's sake, but is that the kind of immaturity and negligence that parents and friends should be proud of?

Again, this isn't the preserve of the younger generations. Last month, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom left his young daughter in a pub at which he had been dining with friends, on the pretext that he though she was getting a lift with aforementioned friends. I distinctly remember having been left at placed by my parents who thought similarly. Whilst I can't exactly draw a parallel between your anecdote and these other instances in terms of severity, its hard to identify what it genuine negligence and what is sheer human error.

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 02:14)
Now I'm not saying teens shouldn't have sex or what not. I'm not a religious nut case, or even religious for that matter. But the fact is that they should use some sort of protection until they are mentally mature enough to take that next step, or be willing to pay the consequences, not be glamourized and praised for their actions.

I agree entirely, but who is it down to to judge when people are mentally mature enough? I wouldn't be averse to putting in place measures which seek to educate expectant young mothers (and fathers for that matter) or even to placing restrictions on when people can actually have children (a "paternity test" or "parenthood test" as it were) but these kind of idea are generally frowned upon as oppressive, against free will and akin to eugenics and that that brings. I also don't feel that it is accurate to say that teenage pregnancy is "glamorised"- certainly not in the mainstream societal sphere- if anything there is a constant drive towards ridicule and shame- but you can't account for all segments in society and there is no denying that amongst a small, poorly educated, generally low-income section of the population there is a certain je-ne-sais-quoi about the idea of having as many illegitimate children as quickly as possible. But the answer to this is very hard to identify, really. How do you propose, as a society, we turn people away from irresponsible behaviour like this without infringing on the rights of the individual?

LBYN
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#4

Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:57 PM Edited by LBYN, 25 June 2012 - 07:01 PM.

Thank you, sivispacem, and to answer your last question, I don't think it is possible to do that. But, it could help by taking shows such as "16 & Pregnant" and "Teen Mom" off primetime television. But anything beyond that point will, most likely, run into Constitutional problems and create a slew of problems, and not to mention legal cases. If we ran campaign ads against, if we outlaw the subsidiztion by the state for these kinds of actions (which by the way, also might cause Constitutional and legal backlash) or even push condom companies to change their outlook from "Now you can have as much sex as you want" to "Come on, this really is only used to prevent the production of your kin, which you shouldn't be doing until about 20-21 anyway," people will still think of those ideas as optional and continue on their merry way, ignoring it.

But to answer your question, no matter how hard we as a society push against it, we can't push people away from this kind of behavior without infringing their rights.

And the fact that it is hardwired into every human to start reproducing around the time of mid-to-latter puberty, it's a likely chance that it will never stop.

Thank you for your counter points. icon14.gif

EDIT: Also, you could push the music industry to try and limit the amount of obscenely obvious sexual lyrics, but, the music industry has too much of a stranglehold on the legislature for that to ever happen.

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#5

Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE (LBYN @ Sunday, Jun 24 2012, 19:14)
I occurred to me today as I was scanning through my Facebook feed that teen pregnancy in 15-16 year olds is being glamourized, praised even, rather than controlled or in the least shunned.

I have a bit an of an issue with the aspect of being shunned, specifically since I was born to a teenage mother, so it's a bit personal to me.

I don't believe we should be going around encouraging teenagers to have rampant amounts of sex and getting pregnant, because as has been mentioned, many people in that age bracket are not prepared in terms of maturity to be a parent (and conversely, many adults are not, either). However, I do not think they should be shunned, either; I've known a few girls who had children at a young age and they were absolutely fearful that their parents would throw them out on the street and give them the cold shoulder, so being shunned on top of having a fear of the reaction from your parents is enough to really destroy someone emotionally.

For example, when my mother got pregnant with me, she was only 18 and her parents were (and still are) very Catholic, so she was incredibly worried that her parents would disown her or make her feel horrible about having a child out of wedlock. She had her best friend call my grandmother to break the news (since mom was scared) and my grandmother, being the way she is, let her emotions take over. A few minutes later, my grandfather called mom and told her not to worry and, she said his words were, "These things happen to good people too" (when I found out he said these words, I gained even more respect for the man). My mom was lucky that her parents were quite understanding and very supportive of her; in fact, they told her that since she was in college, they would be raising me while she got her education (although later, my mom eventually moved to the other side of the country and I opted to stay with my grandparents, so they were the ones who raised me up until I moved away for university). So my grandparents never shunned mom; they were quite supportive of her and in the long run, it was much more beneficial to her (and to me) rather than shunning her and making her feel like a piece of garbage.

The examples you quote are extreme and likely do not reflect the entirety of the real world. You are easily going to hear about all the negative aspects of teen parenting (specifically with regards to negligence), but you won't hear of teen mothers who have been successful in their duties, because it doesn't make a good news story.

As sivi mentioned, any parent can have a lapse in judgment and make a mistake as a parent (it doesn't matter how old they are) - we are all human and are allowed to make mistakes now-and-then.

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#6

Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Icarus @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 19:16)
QUOTE (LBYN @ Sunday, Jun 24 2012, 19:14)
I occurred to me today as I was scanning through my Facebook feed that teen pregnancy in 15-16 year olds is being glamourized, praised even, rather than controlled or in the least shunned.

I have a bit an of an issue with the aspect of being shunned, specifically since I was born to a teenage mother, so it's a bit personal to me.

I don't believe we should be going around encouraging teenagers to have rampant amounts of sex and getting pregnant, because as has been mentioned, many people in that age bracket are not prepared in terms of maturity to be a parent (and conversely, many adults are not, either). However, I do not think they should be shunned, either; I've known a few girls who had children at a young age and they were absolutely fearful that their parents would throw them out on the street and give them the cold shoulder, so being shunned on top of having a fear of the reaction from your parents is enough to really destroy someone emotionally.

For example, when my mother got pregnant with me, she was only 18 and her parents were (and still are) very Catholic, so she was incredibly worried that her parents would disown her or make her feel horrible about having a child out of wedlock. She had her best friend call my grandmother to break the news (since mom was scared) and my grandmother, being the way she is, let her emotions take over. A few minutes later, my grandfather called mom and told her not to worry and, she said his words were, "These things happen to good people too" (when I found out he said these words, I gained even more respect for the man). My mom was lucky that her parents were quite understanding and very supportive of her; in fact, they told her that since she was in college, they would be raising me while she got her education (although later, my mom eventually moved to the other side of the country and I opted to stay with my grandparents, so they were the ones who raised me up until I moved away for university). So my grandparents never shunned mom; they were quite supportive of her and in the long run, it was much more beneficial to her (and to me) rather than shunning her and making her feel like a piece of garbage.

The examples you quote are extreme and likely do not reflect the entirety of the real world. You are easily going to hear about all the negative aspects of teen parenting (specifically with regards to negligence), but you won't hear of teen mothers who have been successful in their duties, because it doesn't make a good news story.

As sivi mentioned, any parent can have a lapse in judgment and make a mistake as a parent (it doesn't matter how old they are) - we are all human and are allowed to make mistakes now-and-then.

I apologize if I meant it in a negative way. I realize now "shunned" wasn't the best word to use in the situation. And, yes, there are examples of good teen mothers. But the vast majority simply are not ready for that kind of step. Taking an example from one of the teen mothers in my local area, she said she would find out who the father was when she found out what the ethnicity of the baby was. She JUST turned 15 believe it or not.

And yes, no one is perfect, but most teenagers simply tend to have more lapses in judgement than say most mid to upper 20 year olds and so on and so forth.

But, I apologize if this hit too close to home for you, and next time I'll choose my words better.

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#7

Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:25 PM

I'm sick of seeing the pregnant crack heads and crack head babies. It's a f*cking shame, the kids have no chance. There should be some sort of test you have to pass in order to have a baby. License to have children.

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#8

Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:28 PM

I hate to pop in and out sort of abruptly, but how do the few of you who are stating this figure that the state "subsidizes" this behavior?

LBYN
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#9

Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 21:28)
I hate to pop in and out sort of abruptly, but how do the few of you who are stating this figure that the state "subsidizes" this behavior?

Usually teen mothers will make under the set poverty line (although some may not, it is a general consensus that they do based on their background), and so the Government will help them with health care and programs along this same line, and so they assist these kinds of families (and other lower class families). They provide them with food stamps, subsidized housing, among other things.

This may also help level out the homeless percentage, but that's for a different time.

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#10

Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 16:40)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 21:28)
I hate to pop in and out sort of abruptly, but how do the few of you who are stating this figure that the state "subsidizes" this behavior?

Usually teen mothers will make under the set poverty line (although some may not, it is a general consensus that they do based on their background), and so the Government will help them with health care and programs along this same line, and so they assist these kinds of families (and other lower class families). They provide them with food stamps, subsidized housing, among other things.

This may also help level out the homeless percentage, but that's for a different time.

But how are they specifically subsidizing that kind of behavior? Everyone at a certain level qualifies for aid, whether it's a 40 year old father who just got laid off at work, or a 16 year old mother who has no income. Are you going to say that we're subsidizing laid off adults and therefore encouraging their behavior? I don't think that's a valid argument in any way.

LBYN
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#11

Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:58 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 23:17)
QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 16:40)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 21:28)
I hate to pop in and out sort of abruptly, but how do the few of you who are stating this figure that the state "subsidizes" this behavior?

Usually teen mothers will make under the set poverty line (although some may not, it is a general consensus that they do based on their background), and so the Government will help them with health care and programs along this same line, and so they assist these kinds of families (and other lower class families). They provide them with food stamps, subsidized housing, among other things.

This may also help level out the homeless percentage, but that's for a different time.

But how are they specifically subsidizing that kind of behavior? Everyone at a certain level qualifies for aid, whether it's a 40 year old father who just got laid off at work, or a 16 year old mother who has no income. Are you going to say that we're subsidizing laid off adults and therefore encouraging their behavior? I don't think that's a valid argument in any way.

I wasn't suggesting that it was encouraging behavior such as laid off adults, but merely the fact that since the Government helps these kinds of situations, teens think that no matter how down on their luck they get, the Government will be there most of the time to catch them as they are so-called "falling." This creates a feeling of invincibility and thus having no repercussions financially for their actions.


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#12

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:45 AM

QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 18:58)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 23:17)
QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 16:40)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 21:28)
I hate to pop in and out sort of abruptly, but how do the few of you who are stating this figure that the state "subsidizes" this behavior?

Usually teen mothers will make under the set poverty line (although some may not, it is a general consensus that they do based on their background), and so the Government will help them with health care and programs along this same line, and so they assist these kinds of families (and other lower class families). They provide them with food stamps, subsidized housing, among other things.

This may also help level out the homeless percentage, but that's for a different time.

But how are they specifically subsidizing that kind of behavior? Everyone at a certain level qualifies for aid, whether it's a 40 year old father who just got laid off at work, or a 16 year old mother who has no income. Are you going to say that we're subsidizing laid off adults and therefore encouraging their behavior? I don't think that's a valid argument in any way.

I wasn't suggesting that it was encouraging behavior such as laid off adults, but merely the fact that since the Government helps these kinds of situations, teens think that no matter how down on their luck they get, the Government will be there most of the time to catch them as they are so-called "falling." This creates a feeling of invincibility and thus having no repercussions financially for their actions.

I don't think that's the thought going through these peoples' heads though. I agree with 99% of what you've said but this just doesn't sit right with me. You can't have it both ways; if you're saying that government welfare creates an environment in which teens feel comfortable being reckless (basically encourages) then you also have to say that it creates the same environment for workers. "I can go take a sh*t on my supervisor's desk, if he fires me I can just go on welfare, whatever."--- this type thought process just doesn't seem like something that would go through anyone's head.

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#13

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:54 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Jun 26 2012, 02:45)
QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 18:58)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 23:17)
QUOTE (LBYN @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 16:40)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jun 25 2012, 21:28)
I hate to pop in and out sort of abruptly, but how do the few of you who are stating this figure that the state "subsidizes" this behavior?

Usually teen mothers will make under the set poverty line (although some may not, it is a general consensus that they do based on their background), and so the Government will help them with health care and programs along this same line, and so they assist these kinds of families (and other lower class families). They provide them with food stamps, subsidized housing, among other things.

This may also help level out the homeless percentage, but that's for a different time.

But how are they specifically subsidizing that kind of behavior? Everyone at a certain level qualifies for aid, whether it's a 40 year old father who just got laid off at work, or a 16 year old mother who has no income. Are you going to say that we're subsidizing laid off adults and therefore encouraging their behavior? I don't think that's a valid argument in any way.

I wasn't suggesting that it was encouraging behavior such as laid off adults, but merely the fact that since the Government helps these kinds of situations, teens think that no matter how down on their luck they get, the Government will be there most of the time to catch them as they are so-called "falling." This creates a feeling of invincibility and thus having no repercussions financially for their actions.

I don't think that's the thought going through these peoples' heads though. I agree with 99% of what you've said but this just doesn't sit right with me. You can't have it both ways; if you're saying that government welfare creates an environment in which teens feel comfortable being reckless (basically encourages) then you also have to say that it creates the same environment for workers. "I can go take a sh*t on my supervisor's desk, if he fires me I can just go on welfare, whatever."--- this type thought process just doesn't seem like something that would go through anyone's head.

And I see your point in that. It couldn't happen either, due to the fact that if you limit one group's rights to what they receive, they will find it unconstitutional, rally together, start protests, and the all the other different aspects to gaining equality, or gaining it back.

But, as I digress, yes, you are right. icon14.gif

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#14

Posted 26 June 2012 - 04:00 AM Edited by Chunkyman, 26 June 2012 - 04:10 AM.

QUOTE (LBYN @ Tuesday, Jun 26 2012, 02:54)

And I see your point in that. It couldn't happen either, due to the fact that if you limit one group's rights to what they receive, they will find it unconstitutional, rally together, start protests, and the all the other different aspects to gaining equality, or gaining it back.

But, as I digress, yes, you are right. icon14.gif

Wait, how would not having welfare programs be deemed unconstitutional?!?!

QUOTE
You can't have it both ways; if you're saying that government welfare creates an environment in which teens feel comfortable being reckless (basically encourages) then you also have to say that it creates the same environment for workers. "I can go take a sh*t on my supervisor's desk, if he fires me I can just go on welfare, whatever."--- this type thought process just doesn't seem like something that would go through anyone's head.


I don't think dumb teenagers actively think "Sweet! Welfare/food stamps/etc. allows me to be a complete moron and become a free rider if anything goes wrong!". It's mostly (a lack of) economic and social pressure discouraging that kind of seriously irresponsible behavior.

It's sort of like when parents foot the bill for their child's speeding tickets, it eliminates the economic discouragement of speeding, and therefore isn't really surprising when you see a marked increase in that negative behavior.

LBYN
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#15

Posted 26 June 2012 - 04:16 AM

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Tuesday, Jun 26 2012, 04:00)
QUOTE (LBYN @ Tuesday, Jun 26 2012, 02:54)

And I see your point in that. It couldn't happen either, due to the fact that if you limit one group's rights to what they receive, they will find it unconstitutional, rally together, start protests, and the all the other different aspects to gaining equality, or gaining it back.

But, as I digress, yes, you are right. icon14.gif

Wait, how would not having welfare programs be deemed unconstitutional?!?!


I wouldn't, but self-righteous citizens deemed in that catergory of teen mothers would because they don't receive the money other minority groups get.

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#16

Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:18 PM Edited by stroud458, 24 July 2012 - 09:21 PM.

I can't understand the teenagers who cry when they find out that they are pregnant. I bet they weren't crying when they were riding the cock.


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#17

Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (stroud458 @ Tuesday, Jul 24 2012, 22:18)
I can't understand the teenagers who cry when they find out that they are pregnant. I bet they weren't crying when they were riding the cock.

Thank you for this pearl of wisdom. Please adhere to the rules of the subforum, move on, or be moved.

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#18

Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:49 PM

Be honest, you found it funny.




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