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Is Socialism an almost forced view?

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Icarus
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#31

Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 14:24)
Hitler was not a leftist...

My guess is that people think that because Hitler was the head of the National Socialist party, they think he was a socialist and hence, a leftist.

sivispacem
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#32

Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:49 PM Edited by sivispacem, 03 May 2012 - 10:51 PM.

QUOTE (Icarus @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 23:26)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 14:24)
Hitler was not a leftist...

My guess is that people think that because Hitler was the head of the National Socialist party, they think he was a socialist and hence, a leftist.

You can be right-wing and socialist- you just can't capitalise the S. "Socialism" in the most general sense is so wide and disparate as to cover many of the policies implemented by the Nazi party in Germany, and even before. For example, Bismark was regarded as socialist (well, a State socialist) by some because his implementation of the earliest vestiges of the German welfare state, including compulsory insurance to compensate workers from accident or injury. But "socialist policies" does not equal "socialist" which does not equal "Socialist", if you get my drift.

Icarus
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#33

Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:01 PM

Oh no, I get that. One of my best friends is a political science major and she was telling me about this. I was more using the very basic interpretation that people have that socialism is a left-wing ideology and that is has no right-wing component - they're treating it more as an absolute with no degree of variability.

So when people see the word Socialist from National Socialist, I imagine some people are quick to think leftist.

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#34

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:04 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 20:24)
Hitler was not a leftist...

Actually, his opinions and ideas were. I am not going to say all leftists are satanic murderers but yes; he was leftist..

http://constitutiona...hitler-leftist/

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#35

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:11 AM

That website is sensationalist bullsh*t built by far right wing organizations to distance themselves from Hitler.

The widely accepted reason for the socialist title was simply to attract people to the party. If you looked at his party platform without knowing it was Nazi, you would likely end up over there if your beliefs are somewhat center-right or even centrist. I took a holocaust class two semesters ago and I ended up in the social democrats but a little over half of the section were in the nazi corner.

If you honestly think Hitler was a leftist, you're delusional. He was a fascist, plain and simple. Fascism incorporates elements from both, but in the case of fascism, ownership of state enterprise is not for the benefit of the people as in socialism but for the benefit of the state. The ultra-nationalism of fascism along with its jingoistic policies is why pretty much ever scholar on the face of the earth call Hitler a rightist and put fascism on the far right of the spectrum.

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#36

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:29 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:11)
That website is sensationalist bullsh*t built by far right wing organizations to distance themselves from Hitler.

The widely accepted reason for the socialist title was simply to attract people to the party. If you looked at his party platform without knowing it was Nazi, you would likely end up over there if your beliefs are somewhat center-right or even centrist. I took a holocaust class two semesters ago and I ended up in the social democrats but a little over half of the section were in the nazi corner.

If you honestly think Hitler was a leftist, you're delusional. He was a fascist, plain and simple. Fascism incorporates elements from both, but in the case of fascism, ownership of state enterprise is not for the benefit of the people as in socialism but for the benefit of the state. The ultra-nationalism of fascism along with its jingoistic policies is why pretty much ever scholar on the face of the earth call Hitler a rightist and put fascism on the far right of the spectrum.

Communism is a form of Socialism, which both join at the left side of the spectrum. Calling hitler anything otherwise is bullsh*t. I am not discriminating against other's opinions, I am simply stating a fact determined by history. Although, no one will never know the complete truth. Many Germans were brainwashed into joining the nazi party - which seems like things now. There are political messages in favor for socialism everywhere; especially the public school system.

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#37

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE (Alazone @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 20:29)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:11)
That website is sensationalist bullsh*t built by far right wing organizations to distance themselves from Hitler.

The widely accepted reason for the socialist title was simply to attract people to the party. If you looked at his party platform without knowing it was Nazi, you would likely end up over there if your beliefs are somewhat center-right or even centrist. I took a holocaust class two semesters ago and I ended up in the social democrats but a little over half of the section were in the nazi corner.

If you honestly think Hitler was a leftist, you're delusional. He was a fascist, plain and simple. Fascism incorporates elements from both, but in the case of fascism, ownership of state enterprise is not for the benefit of the people as in socialism but for the benefit of the state. The ultra-nationalism of fascism along with its jingoistic policies is why pretty much ever scholar on the face of the earth call Hitler a rightist and put fascism on the far right of the spectrum.

Communism is a form of Socialism, which both join at the left side of the spectrum. Calling hitler anything otherwise is bullsh*t. I am not discriminated against other's opinions, I am simply stating a fact determined by history. Although, no one will never know the complete truth. Many Germans were brainwashed into joining the nazi party; which seems like things now. There are political messages in favor for socialism everywhere; especially the public school system.

... did you just say Hitler was a communist?

Yeah, you just lost about all credibility in this topic.

Pucchiac
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#38

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:32 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:30)
QUOTE (Alazone @ Thursday, May 3 2012, 20:29)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:11)
That website is sensationalist bullsh*t built by far right wing organizations to distance themselves from Hitler.

The widely accepted reason for the socialist title was simply to attract people to the party. If you looked at his party platform without knowing it was Nazi, you would likely end up over there if your beliefs are somewhat center-right or even centrist. I took a holocaust class two semesters ago and I ended up in the social democrats but a little over half of the section were in the nazi corner.

If you honestly think Hitler was a leftist, you're delusional. He was a fascist, plain and simple. Fascism incorporates elements from both, but in the case of fascism, ownership of state enterprise is not for the benefit of the people as in socialism but for the benefit of the state. The ultra-nationalism of fascism along with its jingoistic policies is why pretty much ever scholar on the face of the earth call Hitler a rightist and put fascism on the far right of the spectrum.

Communism is a form of Socialism, which both join at the left side of the spectrum. Calling hitler anything otherwise is bullsh*t. I am not discriminated against other's opinions, I am simply stating a fact determined by history. Although, no one will never know the complete truth. Many Germans were brainwashed into joining the nazi party; which seems like things now. There are political messages in favor for socialism everywhere; especially the public school system.

... did you just say Hitler was a communist?

Yeah, you just lost about all credibility in this topic.

That was a mistake on my part, I was getting the history of Adolf Hitler mixed up with Fidel Castro. I apologize, that was just a slight misunderstanding. icon14.gif

In some ways I agree with you, in other ways I disagree.

sivispacem
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#39

Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:19 PM

QUOTE (Alazone @ Friday, May 4 2012, 02:32)
That was a mistake on my part, I was getting the history of Adolf Hitler mixed up with Fidel Castro. I apologize, that was just a slight misunderstanding.  icon14.gif

Can I just ask, how? One is a Cuban Communist, born in 1926, who is still alive and is generally relatively benign as far as despots go. And the other was an Austrian Fascist born in 1889, died in 1945, and (largely) responsible for the largest act of Genocide in modern times. Quite literally the ONLY similarity they have is that they both have (or had) moustaches, although Castro's is considerably larger and considerably more attached to a beard.

Leftcoast
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#40

Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:57 PM

QUOTE
Can I just ask, how? One is a Cuban Communist, born in 1926, who is still alive and is generally relatively benign as far as despots go. And the other was an Austrian Fascist born in 1889, died in 1945, and (largely) responsible for the largest act of Genocide in modern times. Quite literally the ONLY similarity they have is that they both have (or had) moustaches, although Castro's is considerably larger and considerably more attached to a beard.


Agreed, that's like getting Marlene Dietrich confused with Jennifer Lopez.

QUOTE
Communism is a form of Socialism, which both join at the left side of the spectrum. Calling hitler anything otherwise is bullsh*t. I am not discriminated against other's opinions, I am simply stating a fact determined by history. Although, no one will never know the complete truth. Many Germans were brainwashed into joining the nazi party; which seems like things now. There are political messages in favor for socialism everywhere; especially the public school system.


I'm pretty sure he did what ever got him more power and could care less about the ideologies of different political views.

HydraulicWaRiOr
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#41

Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Alazone @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:29)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:11)
That website is sensationalist bullsh*t built by far right wing organizations to distance themselves from Hitler.

The widely accepted reason for the socialist title was simply to attract people to the party. If you looked at his party platform without knowing it was Nazi, you would likely end up over there if your beliefs are somewhat center-right or even centrist. I took a holocaust class two semesters ago and I ended up in the social democrats but a little over half of the section were in the nazi corner.

If you honestly think Hitler was a leftist, you're delusional. He was a fascist, plain and simple. Fascism incorporates elements from both, but in the case of fascism, ownership of state enterprise is not for the benefit of the people as in socialism but for the benefit of the state. The ultra-nationalism of fascism along with its jingoistic policies is why pretty much ever scholar on the face of the earth call Hitler a rightist and put fascism on the far right of the spectrum.

Communism is a form of Socialism, which both join at the left side of the spectrum. Calling hitler anything otherwise is bullsh*t. I am not discriminating against other's opinions, I am simply stating a fact determined by history. Although, no one will never know the complete truth. Many Germans were brainwashed into joining the nazi party - which seems like things now. There are political messages in favor for socialism everywhere; especially the public school system.

Hitler hated Communists. He thought they were pests. Many Communist messages were spread around Poland to call for an uprising, but it's totalitarian state with the Nazis kept anything from happening. Most Polish Communists were arrested by the Gestapo, due to Hitler's issues and failed invasion of the Soviet Union, which made the USSR push back into Poland and annex about 1/3 to 1/2 of their land.

[Supreme]

Irviding
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#42

Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (HydraulicWaRiOr @ Friday, May 4 2012, 18:27)
QUOTE (Alazone @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:29)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, May 4 2012, 01:11)
That website is sensationalist bullsh*t built by far right wing organizations to distance themselves from Hitler.

The widely accepted reason for the socialist title was simply to attract people to the party. If you looked at his party platform without knowing it was Nazi, you would likely end up over there if your beliefs are somewhat center-right or even centrist. I took a holocaust class two semesters ago and I ended up in the social democrats but a little over half of the section were in the nazi corner.

If you honestly think Hitler was a leftist, you're delusional. He was a fascist, plain and simple. Fascism incorporates elements from both, but in the case of fascism, ownership of state enterprise is not for the benefit of the people as in socialism but for the benefit of the state. The ultra-nationalism of fascism along with its jingoistic policies is why pretty much ever scholar on the face of the earth call Hitler a rightist and put fascism on the far right of the spectrum.

Communism is a form of Socialism, which both join at the left side of the spectrum. Calling hitler anything otherwise is bullsh*t. I am not discriminating against other's opinions, I am simply stating a fact determined by history. Although, no one will never know the complete truth. Many Germans were brainwashed into joining the nazi party - which seems like things now. There are political messages in favor for socialism everywhere; especially the public school system.

Hitler hated Communists. He thought they were pests. Many Communist messages were spread around Poland to call for an uprising, but it's totalitarian state with the Nazis kept anything from happening. Most Polish Communists were arrested by the Gestapo, due to Hitler's issues and failed invasion of the Soviet Union, which made the USSR push back into Poland and annex about 1/3 to 1/2 of their land.

[Supreme]

He didn't just think they were pests, he hated them with a passion.

MIKON8ERISBACK
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#43

Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:56 PM Edited by sivispacem, 08 August 2012 - 08:24 AM.

Both the communists and the Nazis were, and still are technically totalitarians. After all, Nazi is an abbreviation for "National Socialist". Believe me or not.

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