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A.D.H.D.

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lil weasel
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#31

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:16 PM

I begin to wonder after a couple of replies here:
Children at the youngest age are told they can’t cope with the normal functioning in a class room. They are subjected to chemical’s that alter their behavior to make them ‘acceptable to society’ in the classroom. They are given ‘performance enhancing’ drugs to take them through the educational system. In adulthood they must continue to use the drugs or not as they chose.
How do we feel knowing that people who make important decisions, even life and death decisions, may be in control of themselves only due to the drugs?
People in sports are ostracized or even arrested when they use ‘performance enhancing’ drugs. Yet, dosing children to accomplish the same results is Government sanctioned?
What will society do when we reach the point when all of America’s children are dosed to make them properly educated and socially acceptable societal figures?
I believe we can use the term Android (chemically made human) to describe our future.

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#32

Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

A.D.H.D. is a real psychological disorder. I'm not 100% sure, but it has something to do with too many active neurotransmitters making you think about too many different things at once and occasionally causing involuntary movement (related to Resteless leg syndrome or Parkinson's disease) and in some cases in adults without treatment, can be just as bad as neurological brain damage....so yeah it's not fake. But, however, it is hugely over diognosed among children....

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#33

Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:44 AM

This is a hot topic for me. I could sit here and quote the hell out of some posts and include my responses but that would take [me] forever.

I know I would have been diagnosed with ADHD(or one of those as a youngster). I was one of those 'hyper' kids. Back then I had an even more hyper friend. He was diagnosed by a doctor as being 'hyper active'. You know what his treatment was? They removed sugar from his diet. Later in life, after they started to medicate hyper kids, my mother told me that she would have refused any meds for me.

I bet if I walked into a doctor now I would be an adult diagnosed with ADHD. I'm not just saying that for effect. I do have a hard time finishing tasks and paying attention. The thing is I am aware of it and force myself to complete some tasks - mainly the important work ones, and sh*t my wife has been bitching about for too long.

The thing is evolution moves pretty slowly. I can't imagine that the human chemistry has changed much (if at all) in the past 50yrs(low ball number). The disorders, conditions, and whatever they want to call them have existed long before the dawn of pharmaceuticals.

The other thing is - we may not want to medicate away some of these things we have labeled as disorders, conditions, and whatever they want to call them. Einstein was a crazy f*ck. Do you think he would have made all of his breakthroughs if his brain wasn't spinning around in his head? I'm willing to bet all of our great thinkers and inventors would have had their creativity medicated away in the interest of making them 'normal'.



lil weasel, I'm totally with you. I think it is oddly sad that society has taken to medicating the kid out of a child.




I also want to touch on a serious danger of some of those ADHD medications. More and more studies are coming out about suicide and suicidal thoughts linked to the meds in the SSI/ADHD realm. I know two stories of (real/not for attention) suicide attempts of two different kids of peers of mine.



Like I said - hot topic for me - I could go on forever, but I'll spare ya'll.







Irviding
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#34

Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:16 AM Edited by Irviding, 24 April 2012 - 02:19 AM.

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Monday, Apr 23 2012, 08:16)
Children at the youngest age are told they can’t cope with the normal functioning in a class room. They are subjected to chemical’s that alter their behavior to make them ‘acceptable to society’ in the classroom. They are given ‘performance enhancing’ drugs to take them through the educational system. In adulthood they must continue to use the drugs or not as they chose.
How do we feel knowing that people who make important decisions, even life and death decisions, may be in control of themselves only due to the drugs?
People in sports are ostracized or even arrested when they use ‘performance enhancing’ drugs. Yet, dosing children to accomplish the same results is Government sanctioned?
What will society do when we reach the point when all of America’s children are dosed to make them properly educated and socially acceptable societal figures?
I believe we can use the term Android (chemically made human) to describe our future.

I think that's complete and total bullsh*t and shows your total lack of education on this matter. You sound like you're spewing this after hearing some daytime talk show.

Sports are totally different. It puts you from an equal footing to a footing above others, that is performance enhancing drugs. For example, guy and I at the gym are both benching 285 right now as our respective 1RMs. We agree that whoever hits 300 by June 1st will be paid 250 dollars by the other. If I take steroids, I go from being at an equal footing of starting at the same 1RM as him to being way above and thus, it is unfair and immoral. Children with developmental disorders and other mental defects are at a footing lower than everyone else and thus medication or sometimes other therapies are required to get them up to that equal footing.

I'm not even going to address the last two points.

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#35

Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:23 AM

I don't think anyone said that the listed symptoms are not common in kids... I think it's a problem when you consistently display a large majority of those symptoms that it becomes a disorder. I only know one kid in my class who had it and he definitely seemed off his rocker before he went on the Ritalin, which seemed to genuinely help him. Then again he was only an acquaintance so who knows how he was acting at home.

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#36

Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:14 AM

It's a bit disturbing to think about the parallels between Brave New World and the overmedication of children. It's seems that our society becomes more and more like the one in the book, sadly. sad.gif

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#37

Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:29 AM

I don't think that the problem is with the medication or the diagnosis criteria. The real problem is that there's far too many people willing to accept that it is "ADHD" because the symptoms are so common in other things and it's often times a "Oh, that explains it all," kind of thing. Meanwhile though the person making this "diagnosis" might just be a family doctor who shouldn't really be handing out samples of this medication or making such diagnosis.

Another problem is that the medication itself is pretty powerful stuff. So when a child starts taking it, they will often times start performing better even if they do not have ADHD. Problem with this is that the medication for it is basically amphetamine and the people who get all kinds of energy and start excelling and everything, are getting a high they don't really need. However, because this has what appears to be beneficial side effects a lot of times people think it's the answer to everything. Meanwhile a good psychiatrist prescribing the medication would be able to watch for these spikes and ensure that the medication was just leveling things out.

On top of that, there are two sides of ADHD... There is your hyper-active side of it which is most commonly seen in children, and the attention deficit side of it which is most common in adults because by the time a person reaches adult hood they have generally learned to cope with the "hyper activity" by channeling it in constructive ways. They tend to call this "hyper focus" and in some ways having ADHD could be a benefit to some and there have been some notable individuals that have it.

I find the assertion that ADHD in children is just natural hyper activity is somewhat akin to suggesting that depression is just "the blues" in teenagers and young adults. There probably are quite a lot of moody teens and what not out there on anti-depressants that don't really need them, but there's also some that legitimately do.

Long story short, don't blame medicine, blame those who prescribe it incorrectly.

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#38

Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Monday, Apr 23 2012, 01:23)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Apr 22 2012, 17:49)
it really aggravates me when people just run around ignorantly calling it a "scam" or whatever else.

but it is a scam.
as it exists right now, it's more about making money than proper treatment.

until they fix this, it's more scam than not.

A scam would imply some sort of deceit. It is a known fact, crossed referenced by many doctors and medical professionals/researchers which has drawn to the conclusion that it is infact a condition. If you've got accurate research and proof from a credible source that it doesn't infact exist, then perhaps we'll take your miscalculated controversy seriously.

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#39

Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Brad @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 02:30)
A scam would imply some sort of deceit. It is a known fact, crossed referenced by many doctors and medical professionals/researchers which has drawn to the conclusion that it is infact a condition.

you missed the part where I already acknowledged that ADHD is very real.

I never said the CONDITION was a scam.
I said the prescription drug market that has exploded around it is a scam; especially in the way it is administered.

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#40

Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:06 AM

Once taught a young lad some quad racing one to one lessons, he had ADHD.

Annoyingly hyper-active. He seemed not to listen, to be going in one ear, and out the other. Clearly had a disorder.

Having said that though, stuck a helmet on him, sent him on-track and he clearly had listened, and was 100% focused on his riding, and trying to learn what I explained.

So to me, yes the disorder is real, bit there is evidently a flip side. Where one can excel in extreme concentrations activities. Where a little slip up can cause serious harm.

lil weasel
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#41

Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

Anytime Science is involved we must remember these people don’t get paid by free thinking Sponsors. Yes, there are exceptions.
For the most part a Scientist is given a problem, and usually the required solution. The Scientist’s job is to make the solution the Sponsor wants the ‘valid data result’.
The Medical Profession is an ART not a Science. Medical Doctor’s know what they are told and prescribe according to their own Peer Groups. Very, very few Doctors use their own research in Pharmacology to make their decisions.
Medical Doctor’s review their own mistakes and aren’t subject to criminal law except in the very rare occasions when their Peers can’t protect them from public ire.


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#42

Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:53 AM Edited by Dragonjack, 24 April 2012 - 10:56 AM.

I use to had A.D.H.D Not lying, Not joking sad.gif But for some reason? i don't have it No more...which is Pretty Good! I feel happy And quiet in the inside.

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#43

Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:58 PM

Agreed 100%, especially your third paragraph (experiencing that personally). I see the medication regiments as a temporary fix for a long-term problem while the person taking it learns how to cope with the disorder until they don't need to take the medicine anymore. The idea that people are so quick to take medicines or self-diagnose (or are willing to shove medicine down their kids' throats when they don't actually need it) to the extent that people are willing to use the chemicals as a crutch is absolutely sickening.

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#44

Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:20 PM

I personally disliked taking meds and chose not to take them after awhile, but I do believe that they can be effective.
I'm talking about while I was in school, so yeah, some might think I'm showing as "off my meds"

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#45

Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 04:39)
For the most part a Scientist is given a problem, and usually the required solution. The Scientist’s job is to make the solution the Sponsor wants the ‘valid data result’.

That's not science; that's data forgery.

The true aim of science is to be taken where the evidence leads, even if that's not where you want to go.

lil weasel
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#46

Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:23 PM Edited by lil weasel, 24 April 2012 - 07:25 PM.

I would agree with that.
But, this is the Real World.
So people especially uni trained professionals need to make money to pay off their loans. Thus, since the money flow is controlled by the Sponsor the Employee will comply.

We have also dealt with Research Mistakes. Take the Salk Vaccines for Polio. The Medical world was horribly damaged by that. Thousands, if not millions, of health care workers out of work because of a wonderful discovery. Think of all the medical suppliers who suddenly aren’t needed. No Iron Lungs, leg braces, Hospital Beds (wards), et cetra.
Then there is the Fluoride a dangerous waste byproduct of "aluminum” . Dentists and Oral Surgeons suddenly with a declining trade. No more tooth decay (well almost). So they have to expand to cosmetic fields to stay in business.
I don’t want to start MYTH argument here.

I seriously doubt there will be anymore Health Care Miracles through Chemistry.

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#47

Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:46 PM

QUOTE (Icarus @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 13:25)
QUOTE (lil weasel @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 04:39)
For the most part a Scientist is given a problem, and usually the required solution. The Scientist’s job is to make the solution the Sponsor wants the ‘valid data result’.

That's not science; that's data forgery.

The true aim of science is to be taken where the evidence leads, even if that's not where you want to go.

Off topic, do you know anything about forensic science? I f*cked myself by taking a class on it to satisfy my science requirement.

Weasel, as mentioned, your view of science is very, well, wrong. I don't know what's with you and college educated people, but you seem to have a real problem with it and I haven't realized why. Perhaps because you feel intimidated, I don't know. But regardless, you've so far spewed such ridiculous drivel in this thread that's frankly insulting to those with ADHD. Sag pointed it out pretty well. Don't blame the drugs. Blame the family doctors and other unqualified people prescribing them with the drugs.

lil weasel
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#48

Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:15 PM

When you grow up and view the world from outside of the class room, if you aren't already hopelessly perverted, you will see the truth. Your need to dominate the forums is a disservice to your preceived abilities of intelligence.
Take a break. Smile. smile.gif . You don't need to be right all the time.

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#49

Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:52 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 16:46)
QUOTE (Icarus @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 13:25)
QUOTE (lil weasel @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 04:39)
For the most part a Scientist is given a problem, and usually the required solution. The Scientist’s job is to make the solution the Sponsor wants the ‘valid data result’.

That's not science; that's data forgery.

The true aim of science is to be taken where the evidence leads, even if that's not where you want to go.

Off topic, do you know anything about forensic science? I f*cked myself by taking a class on it to satisfy my science requirement.

Forensic science is a bit broad in the sense that it encompasses a large spectrum of the scientific disciplines (e.g. biology, chemistry, physics). My B.Sc. was in honours physics and forensic science can find a use for physics, but I can't say I've actually applied any of my knowledge towards anything that would fall under the purview forensic science. tounge.gif

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#50

Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:24 AM

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Tuesday, Apr 24 2012, 18:15)
When you grow up and view the world from outside of the class room, if you aren't already hopelessly perverted, you will see the truth. Your need to dominate the forums is a disservice to your preceived abilities of intelligence.
Take a break. Smile. smile.gif . You don't need to be right all the time.

While I do agree I am an asshole and get very violent in debates, it's just who I am. I just feel like you have this major distrust of scientists and the medical community in general and I don't understand it.

Icarus, I shot you a PM lol.




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