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Snoop Dogg performs with Tupac hologram

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#61

Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:24 PM Edited by finn4life, 28 April 2012 - 02:46 PM.

Yep Allen you crossed the line and you are now being racist.
I gave up debating because you are a naive child and have yet to understand how these things are like.

To me you sound like someone has told you some biased racist opinions and you have learned from them, which is understandable, when i was young i was easily brainwashed too.
With more age, open mindedness and independence of opinion hopefully you will better understand. Read over our posts, particularly smcs and keep them in mind and think on them.

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#62

Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:41 PM

I'm done debating DOOM, so don't bother to reply with PM, I took it to the thread to get better insight into the topic about the gangs and rap history, it's violent side. I'm not singling out Tupac or Biggie in any of this either
BUT, anyone watching that Yo MTV Raps Greatest Moments? It was on VH1 again last night. I didn't see all of it yet, but I caught the earlier or earliest part of the program, first time they interviewed Tupac on the show
He made his life story out to be RIGHT from the tough streets, how all his friends were in jail, and as I was saying to Doom, this is not the case for other musical genres. If he felt I was stereotypical, prove it

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#63

Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE (SmC12 @ Friday, Apr 27 2012, 20:27)
QUOTE (Allen14n @ Friday, Apr 27 2012, 19:53)
What's all the gang warfare for? Just because of stupid idea that wearing blue looks better than wearing red? Hell, these dumbasses don't even know why they're killing. Lots of them complain about racial hate crimes even if the cases aren't even racial. Why not focus on fixing the problem of black-on-black crime? Why don't all these "black leaders" speak out about that? Why do they scream "racism" every time there's any kind of offense to blacks, although it's not even racial? In other words, some blacks immediately blame whites for their misery even when whites have nothing to do with it. Your ancestor from TWO HUNDRED years ago got raped by a white man. Is that a logical excuse to act like an idiot?

Allen, what the hell are you talking about? Seriously. Gangs were created as 'social groups'. There was tensions in communities, a huge racism problem, especially from the police. It was all about strength in numbers. The police weren't protecting them, and former officers from LA Gang Units fully agree. So the gangs were the protection. Things escalated and there was rivalries, like normal teenagers people would fight, and then guns started being brought into the situation, and suddenly killing became much easier and this caused a seperation into rival groups. The founders of the Bloods and Crips didn't agree with the drive-bys and shootouts. It wasn't just "Blue vs Red", it was Blue vs Blue and Red vs Red, people were just killing anyone. Then crack came out in the 80's and poor communities were completely destroyed even more by it. The gang members dealt drugs instead of murdering people, they could make $10,000 in a week through selling drugs. So huge operations were set up and everyone was batteling to be the biggest dealers and get the most money. It reduced the violence a little. However, then the controversial Rodney King trial enraged people in the black community, so they tore sh*t up. After decades of being beaten, killed, and discriminated by whites the tension and pressure was high, so the attitude against whites during that time was very negative.

On the other hand, the riots knocked sense into a lot of people, they were killing and damaging their own communities. Bloods and Crips became more connected and even formed truces, people stopped with the killings and the drugs (for the most part, it still happens, but only very few participate). Like I already dicussed you had 'gangsta rap' which came out and documented what was going on, and spread it around, and yes it did glorify the culture, but it did a huge amount of good. What you seem to pick up is some retarded idea that the situation is still like this, because rappers still talk about it. Many former gang leaders are now community activists, people from the 60's Watts Riots and Rodney King riots who were part of the bloods or crips have completely left the gang culture and work to help other gang members escape.

The people who run around glorifying gangs and trying to act hard are WHITE people. Those who saw Snoop Dogg doing the Crip Walk on a music video or talking about gangs and now they go around dressed in blue and acting hard. You have more white, asian and hispanic blood and crip gangs than you do black. The naive people who believe everything. It's now fake gangsters who get the wrong impression from Hip-Hop and think that gangbanging is cool and it's freedom, whereas the leaders of those gangs have left that life and regret everything, and work to make better communities. The crime rate and gang violence in LA hasn't risen to the extent seen in the 60's and 80's since.

So I ask again, what the hell are you talking about? Why am I giving you a history lesson on something you should have researched before making points like that?

I know gangs started out that way. If you actually go back and read what I said earlier, you'd know that I was only referring to the little bitches TODAY who join or start gangs just to look cool or have street cred. What's up with dumbasses like Lil Wayne and the Game claiming Blood? Lil Wayne got signed when he was what? Twelve? He was obviously a lot more fortunate than other blacks out there. Besides, the dude even went to college and got a psychology degree. The Game himself suddenly started to claim Blood all of a sudden by entitling his album "The Red Album" and dying his hair red. What the hell's up with that?

When you become a SIGNED rapper, aren't you already out of that kind of lifestyle in the first place? You have millions of dollars. There's no need for some gangsters to protect you. You can hire hundreds of bodyguards and extra security. What they're promoting is gang affiliation. It's as simple as that. It started the notion that starting fake gangs is cool.

Next time, don't be such a dumbass and start reading more into what I said. I researched this sh*t when I was in sixth or seventh grade.

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#64

Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:47 PM Edited by Slamman, 28 April 2012 - 05:00 PM.

Here's what they aired, in part;


Don't ask me about the audio, That's a mystery there
Here I see a few interviews asking about the gangs and violence, so as I said to Doom, that's not part of the Metal music, Country music, Jazz music, Rock, Classical.
I'm being serious, there's no other movement that's that closely related to the inner city problems, and yes, it's tied to the social-economic issues of that as well, no denying. Also no denying how it's helpful to channel their efforts into music


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#65

Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (finn4life @ Saturday, Apr 28 2012, 14:24)
Yep Allen you crossed the line and you are now being racist.
I gave up debating because you are a naive child and have yet to understand how these things are like.

To me you sound like someone has told you some biased racist opinions and you have learned from them, which is understandable, when i was young i was easily brainwashed too.
With more age, open mindedness and independence of opinion hopefully you will better understand. Read over our posts, particularly smcs and keep them in mind and think on them.

There we go again. Another idiot thinking someone's racist even when no racism is involved.

Have you kept in mind that I grew up in a neighborhood that was primarily black? Also, I researched this stuff years ago. Of course I know the original reasons for having a gang like the Crips. All I'm saying is that there's no reason to have a gang anymore. Hell, even one of the founders of the Crips even admitted that the original purpose of the gang was lost.

Now, we have fake gangster wannabes in the hip-hop industry trying to act all hard by trying to claim gang affiliation, although they were probably nowhere near a gang member in their lives. Lil Wayne got signed when he was what? Twelve? You seriously think that dude had the time to go out and become a vital part of the Bloods? He even had a good education, having gone to some university and eventually earning himself a degree in psychology.

The bottom line is that all these rappers from the '90s who were affiliated with gangs were stupid as hell. What's the need for protection from gangs when you could easily hire as many bodyguards as you want with your millions of dollars? The only reason must have been so that they could have connections for plotting murder.

If I'm not mistaken, Death Row had an entire lineup consisting of rappers who were Crips AND Bloods. Obviously, if these Crip rappers and Blood rappers could get along with each other, what's the damn reason for being involved in a gang anymore? Modern Bloods and Crips don't even know why the hell they're fighting anymore. Don't defend these people for their own ignorance.

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#66

Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:11 PM

Okay this is the last time I'll respond to you, because this has been taken off topic enough. PM me if you still need to argue.

My response to you was based on the part I quoted from your post, where you talked about "black leaders claiming racism" and "gang warfare" and you displayed a lack of knowledge about the subject, because what you said made no sense. And it was in fact borderline racist, whether you intended it to be or not. If you researched it like you say, then you wouldn't have made a point like that. So I explained the purpose of gangs and how nowadays it is not a large-scale problem like in the past. The original gangsters from gangs like Crips and Bloods are no longer affiliated with them and work to help young criminals turn their lives around. What your post implied is that they still go out on drive-by's on a daily basis because it's cool.

At no point did you mention you were talking about mainstream rappers like Lil' Wayne, you were directing your comments at all blacks who have been involved in crime instead of pointing the finger at certain individuals. You should have made your point more clear. Like you said, they are fake gangsters, they're naive and have misguided views. It's ridiculous to even brand them as gangsters, because the majority of Crip and Blood gangs that still exist are a complete laughing stock compared to the original gangs that actually had a purpose. It's mostly young kids who hear someone talk about gangs - because it's something they lived through and affected their life - and think the rapper is mentioning it because it's a cool thing to do. In some cases rappers do talk about gangs and violence in a positive way, just like fake gangsters who have no clue what their doing, there are fake rappers who also have no clue, in fact many fake gangsters go on to be rappers. That is not a problem specifically with hip-hop, that is modern music in general. It's now big corporations who don't care about the individual, or their background; as long as you can talk tough on a song then you have a deal. I'm not defending them, I hate them as much as you.

Many record label executives don't know anything about gangs and the history of rap, it's all about the money. It's the same for all genres of music. Instead of payning attention to someone like Lil' Wayne, listen to the people who know what they're talking about instead. Don't criticise an entire genre or an entire group of people just because a few of them give it a bad reputation. That's stupid.

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#67

Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:27 PM Edited by Slamman, 28 April 2012 - 06:04 PM.

I shouldn't have to tell "historians" here that before the InnerCity issues of poverty leading to that sub-culture's crime in musical history; jazz and Blues also had some violence and drug abuse associated, perhaps classical as well, that we don't really know about, but jazz and blues effected rock and roll, the most rebellious form up to that point. 60s culture seemed downright hedonistic, then you have the Black Metal segment were imagery was pushed to points of absurdity
So, to a lesser extent, the music is part of that culture in time as well
Not everything Tupac says has absolute truth behind it, which is true of just about anyone's comments

1988 Interview he did at 17:


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#68

Posted 28 April 2012 - 06:14 PM

Allen14n, something tells me that you've been jumped by a group of young black youths.

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#69

Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:19 PM

I'm glad I didn't go to school in his neighborhood. Racism was never in my mind in my school years because of all the variety in suburban schools I guess

I was not in the in-crowd and never shall be, gangs were also a way to substitute belonging and place if family units fail, I'd say broken homes or dysfunctional for example

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#70

Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:45 PM

Just posting so I dont forget the thread,want to read Smc12 posts, talking sense. Just a bit fazed to read it all at athe moment.

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#71

Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:58 PM

@Allen. Listen to Jay-Z's verse in Renegade, and you listen close, and then tell me that a signed rapper with a net worth of hundreds of millions is automatically promoting gang affiliance. We're talking about one of the most successfull rappers of all time, and the track I linked is from a Billboard #1 album.

What I'm seriously interested about is the primarily black neighborhood you mentioned growing up in - what was it, Baldwin Hills? I do, in fact, see your point - if you're born in the hood, turning to crime and putting your feet up isn't going to get you anywhere, and that's actually true, but have you ever thought that it may actually be the only option for these people? When you're raised by a single mother who's a crack addict, how the hell do you apply for Harvard? The society neglects the 'hood, and without proper support from the government, you can't blame these people in the hood for their "ignorance" if the option of getting out is simply not there. This is what rappers have been talking about ever since N.W.A. If you listen to Express Yourself, F*ck Tha Police, Gang Starr's Code Of The Streets or 'Pac's Changes, they're all society-concerned songs, relative to realist poems. These rappers just wanted to imform the youth in the 'hood about a way out and tell them what's going on around them, as the propaganda they saw wasn't truthful. The rappers, back in the days, they did the most important job, the vital job and the greatest attempt to make a change. That's what rap's about. So tell me, where do you see a gang affiliation?

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#72

Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:12 AM

Can we all go back to topic or go to the debates and descussion topic because this is not the place or time for arguing. icon14.gif

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#73

Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE (glenn tha killer @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 01:12)
Can we all go back to topic or go to the debates and descussion topic because this is not the place or time for arguing. icon14.gif

Yeah stfu you lot I want hear more pointless sh*t about dead niggas creepy holograms

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#74

Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:26 AM

So are they gonna proper tour the world with this sh*t?

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#75

Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:39 AM

Well, I'll still call it Hologram technology, but I doubt they'll do this as a regular tour feature, It seems somewhat state of the art if James Cameron is involved!

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#76

Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:33 AM

QUOTE (SmC12 @ Saturday, Apr 28 2012, 17:11)
Okay this is the last time I'll respond to you, because this has been taken off topic enough. PM me if you still need to argue.

My response to you was based on the part I quoted from your post, where you talked about "black leaders claiming racism" and "gang warfare" and you displayed a lack of knowledge about the subject, because what you said made no sense. And it was in fact borderline racist, whether you intended it to be or not. If you researched it like you say, then you wouldn't have made a point like that. So I explained the purpose of gangs and how nowadays it is not a large-scale problem like in the past. The original gangsters from gangs like Crips and Bloods are no longer affiliated with them and work to help young criminals turn their lives around. What your post implied is that they still go out on drive-by's on a daily basis because it's cool.

At no point did you mention you were talking about mainstream rappers like Lil' Wayne, you were directing your comments at all blacks who have been involved in crime instead of pointing the finger at certain individuals. You should have made your point more clear. Like you said, they are fake gangsters, they're naive and have misguided views. It's ridiculous to even brand them as gangsters, because the majority of Crip and Blood gangs that still exist are a complete laughing stock compared to the original gangs that actually had a purpose. It's mostly young kids who hear someone talk about gangs - because it's something they lived through and affected their life - and think the rapper is mentioning it because it's a cool thing to do. In some cases rappers do talk about gangs and violence in a positive way, just like fake gangsters who have no clue what their doing, there are fake rappers who also have no clue, in fact many fake gangsters go on to be rappers. That is not a problem specifically with hip-hop, that is modern music in general. It's now big corporations who don't care about the individual, or their background; as long as you can talk tough on a song then you have a deal. I'm not defending them, I hate them as much as you.

Many record label executives don't know anything about gangs and the history of rap, it's all about the money. It's the same for all genres of music. Instead of payning attention to someone like Lil' Wayne, listen to the people who know what they're talking about instead. Don't criticise an entire genre or an entire group of people just because a few of them give it a bad reputation. That's stupid.

SmC12, I sincerely respect you for this.

I'm not racist or even close to be racist. I know I made it seem like that with what I said, but I would have said the same about ANYONE, not just blacks. I would have said that about Hispanics, Asians, and whites, too. I hope you understand that I do respect rappers like Tupac. He was not only an influential rapper, but he was also a great political figure in a sense. I've seen his interviews before, and yes, he seems like a very knowledgeable man who had a great vision for society.

However, he definitely resorted to some ignorance and even hypocrisy for the latter part of his life. Some of the beefs he had with multiple rappers were unnecessary. Did he know for sure whether or not Biggie was responsible for the robbery and shooting or was it just a false accusation? Even though "Hit 'Em Up" was one of the songs Tupac was most known for, it also heightened the tension between West Coast rappers and East Coast rappers. Have you ever thought about how he might not have been killed if he never created that song? Music has a great influence on society, whether we realize it or not. Tupac was a figure of influence whom many people looked up to at the time, and there was a reason for that. He created songs that people could relate to and songs that gave them hope and wisdom. He would have been better off continuing doing that instead of releasing a song with the following at the end:
"All of y'all motherf*ckers, f*ck you, die slow motherf*cker.
My four four make sure all your kids don't grow."

What's that all about? What's that promoting? Killing the CHILDREN of the people you hate? Let's be honest here. As much as we respect Tupac, there's no doubt that he did make some terrible mistakes.

Yes, I do realize that some original Crips and Bloods are no longer affiliated with gangs, and I commend that. I've read about that a lot, and I feel happiness every time I do. It's always great to know people turned their lives around. However, you have to realize that the gang problem still goes on today because of fake gangster wannabes like Lil Wayne. There are rappers who claim gang affiliation, and that continues to promote all this negativity for the kids out there.

I definitely agree with you about how many record label executives don't know the history of gangs and the history of rap. Instead, they encourage the rappers they signed to put on a false gimmick just to have a marketing image. The marketing image is what sells albums because ignorant people continue to fall for it. This is tragic. It's the reason why we continue to hear all this trash that's put out onto the radio for the public to hear. It's really a technique to brainwash people just for money.

I hope you didn't get the wrong impression from me. I'm actually a huge fan of hip hop, especially when it's meaningful and inspirational hip hop.

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#77

Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:38 AM

Stereotypes don't happen because I say them, or you ^ say them, they happen for a reason, so the blame lies elsewhere really

Not all the blame lies on record companies, they can't force an artist to do anything that artist refuses to do

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#78

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE (Slamman @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 01:39)
Well, I'll still call it Hologram technology, but I doubt they'll do this as a regular tour feature, It seems somewhat state of the art if James Cameron is involved!

If they do come here im sure it will be real expensave. icon14.gif

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#79

Posted 29 April 2012 - 02:59 PM

@Allen14n: Well I'm glad that's cleared up, sorry if I sounded harsh but I've seen too many people who just don't know what they're talking about when trying to criticise rappers and it pisses me off. There will always be ignorant and naive teenagers who have 'gang affiliation' and grow up in a life of crime, you can't completely prevent it untill there is no such thing as a lower class population. There's still big problems for ethnic minorites and crime can be an easy way out for alot of people. It's not so much they are infulenced by rappers, that's like saying high school killings are influenced by GTA, and we know that's a pile of sh*t. The fact is, gangs are not a problem like they used to be, and crime rates haven't been as high as they were in the past. People will always do stupid things because there's stupid people in the world. Your mention of "Hit 'Em Up" was relevant, however Hip-Hop started through rap battles and 'beefing' is a huge part of the music, it may have been stupid in your eyes but he had his reasons for making that song. Just don't pay attention to the wannabe gangsters and fake rappers, they make money through people falling for their lies and fake image.

@glenn tha killer: I mentioned a few posts back that Dr. Dre said there will be no 'Tupac hologram tour'. It was specifically for Coachella, he didn't rule out using it again in the future, but there will be no tours dedicated to 'Pac. It would be great though, but I'm happy with this being a one-time thing, it's more special in my opinion.



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#80

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:47 PM

Ahhh, I really want to see it live. I hope there is some concerts featuring Tupac`s hologram or something. I also haven't seen Snoop and Dre live yet which I also want to see. icon14.gif

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#81

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:33 PM

Craziest thing I've ever seen live. It didn't matter that 50 was on before or that Eminem was on after. Tupac is and was one of the most gravitating personalities in pop culture, shame he had to die when he was seemingly putting most of the BS behind him. I didn't read the thread but that's my review from week two of Coachella.

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#82

Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

QUOTE (SmC12 @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 14:59)
@Allen14n: Well I'm glad that's cleared up, sorry if I sounded harsh but I've seen too many people who just don't know what they're talking about when trying to criticise rappers and it pisses me off. There will always be ignorant and naive teenagers who have 'gang affiliation' and grow up in a life of crime, you can't completely prevent it untill there is no such thing as a lower class population. There's still big problems for ethnic minorites and crime can be an easy way out for alot of people. It's not so much they are infulenced by rappers, that's like saying high school killings are influenced by GTA, and we know that's a pile of sh*t. The fact is, gangs are not a problem like they used to be, and crime rates haven't been as high as they were in the past. People will always do stupid things because there's stupid people in the world. Your mention of "Hit 'Em Up" was relevant, however Hip-Hop started through rap battles and 'beefing' is a huge part of the music, it may have been stupid in your eyes but he had his reasons for making that song. Just don't pay attention to the wannabe gangsters and fake rappers, they make money through people falling for their lies and fake image.

@glenn tha killer: I mentioned a few posts back that Dr. Dre said there will be no 'Tupac hologram tour'. It was specifically for Coachella, he didn't rule out using it again in the future, but there will be no tours dedicated to 'Pac. It would be great though, but I'm happy with this being a one-time thing, it's more special in my opinion.

I feel like lots of rappers start "beefs" just for their own commercial benefit. What Tupac did with "Hit 'Em Up" was pretty much promote violence. It's actually not that common for a popular rapper to be doing that in a diss song, at least not nowadays.

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#83

Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Wreckless Jake @ Monday, Apr 16 2012, 12:13)
But who else thinks this might turn into a trend and other artists decide do it with the likes of Michael Jackson and Amy Whinehouse?

I say we bring back Jim Morrison and Jimi Hendrix at once.

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#84

Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:11 AM

QUOTE (Allen14n @ Monday, Apr 30 2012, 12:22)
I feel like lots of rappers start "beefs" just for their own commercial benefit.

Kind of like what Common did with Drake? Not saying he's a bad guy, I actually admire him for what he does, but he was falling behind before he made that diss track. Look at him now..

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#85

Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:05 AM

QUOTE (SmC12 @ Sunday, Apr 29 2012, 14:59)
@Allen14n: Well I'm glad that's cleared up, sorry if I sounded harsh but I've seen too many people who just don't know what they're talking about when trying to criticise rappers and it pisses me off. There will always be ignorant and naive teenagers who have 'gang affiliation' and grow up in a life of crime, you can't completely prevent it untill there is no such thing as a lower class population. There's still big problems for ethnic minorites and crime can be an easy way out for alot of people. It's not so much they are infulenced by rappers, that's like saying high school killings are influenced by GTA, and we know that's a pile of sh*t. The fact is, gangs are not a problem like they used to be, and crime rates haven't been as high as they were in the past. People will always do stupid things because there's stupid people in the world. Your mention of "Hit 'Em Up" was relevant, however Hip-Hop started through rap battles and 'beefing' is a huge part of the music, it may have been stupid in your eyes but he had his reasons for making that song. Just don't pay attention to the wannabe gangsters and fake rappers, they make money through people falling for their lies and fake image.

@glenn tha killer: I mentioned a few posts back that Dr. Dre said there will be no 'Tupac hologram tour'. It was specifically for Coachella, he didn't rule out using it again in the future, but there will be no tours dedicated to 'Pac. It would be great though, but I'm happy with this being a one-time thing, it's more special in my opinion.

MSN confirms this, Doctor Dre is saying NO tour to follow, and it's likely too much trouble, as was Pink Floyd's THE WALL, costing the band too much to tour the show as much as everyone would have liked.
Take note that Roger Waters of PF did eventually resurrect a way to take that concept on tour, many years later, however

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#86

Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:57 PM

While it certainly is a pretty cool work of tech, I find it pretty f*cking retarded.

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#87

Posted 10 May 2012 - 04:23 PM Edited by Allen14n, 10 May 2012 - 04:46 PM.

Tupac was found "guilty" for a sexual abuse case. He also shot an off-duty police officer in Atlanta.

Why the hell is it that people keep making fun of people like Michael Jackson and Kobe Bryant and instantly assuming they were rapists, but when Tupac does something, they always defend him? Why glorify him like he's some sort of saint? Using a gun because of a verbal dispute? I thought guns were only justification for self-defense. This guy actually promoted violence. People don't have brains anymore.

Of course he had good qualities, but people are acting like this guy's some sort of saint.

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#88

Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:11 PM

That was so wicked. Really great.




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