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is John Lennon overrated?

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El_Diablo
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#1

Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

my friends and I have debated this at least 20 times.

just curious what everyone here thinks...

buzbegone
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#2

Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:20 AM

I lost respect for him after the Beatles completely. I mean, Yoko Ono? What the f*ck was he thinking?!?

El_Diablo
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#3

Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:26 AM

I was thinking musically, not personally.
Yoko Ono is a little weird but I could care less about that stuff.

usually when we have this argument it's about his legacy and music more than personal life.
I tend to think he's overrated. he's deified in a lot of ways and I don't see how he ever lived up to that. dying tragically doesn't count.

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#4

Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:30 AM

I think he was a bit of a scumbag to be honest. He treated his first wife and son pretty poorly. And I just generally don't like hippies.

Slamman
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#5

Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:34 AM

Opinion is Opinion, but I recently watched Imagine, the fact you find behind the celebrity is he was a man pining for peace like a great many others, Because of the fame and celebrity, he and other POP STARS were put on the stand and asked for their input into World problems and affairs as well, I saw more of the man who was unsure of how he felt and place in the World. I've seen the same regarding Roger Waters of Pink Floyd, but all these artists with causes, like Don Henley's Walden Woods have some good intentions that aren't just paving a road to Hell

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#6

Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:18 PM

IMHO very much yes. Not that he wasn't a good musician but he wasn't what everyone claims he was. In a way Hendrix and Cobain suffer from the same hype. The lives they lived and the way they made it to prominence seems to outshine their actual music. I dig Led Zep but not because they wrote great songs like everyone one says, but because they stole great songs! Its a taste thing and don't be pressured into liking someone because its in vogue, in fact I've been in the same type of debates as u with friends.

Slamman
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#7

Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:05 PM

You can blame Mr. Lennon for that, and I have no problem with Yoko Ono either, she's a nice person, so why the hate? I think it's misplaced by people who don't really know her

It can be traced back to Lennon and McCartney getting so much credit for their writing as well, think of it in terms of Michael Jackson buying their rights, he must have had a passion for the Beatles as I see it

El_Diablo
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#8

Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:51 PM Edited by El_Diablo, 12 April 2012 - 03:12 AM.

Paul and John wrote the majority of Beatles music, but McCartney wrote the most by far and wrote more of the better songs (imo).

Lennon's songs were never quite as good.

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#9

Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:01 PM

Totally. But not in a bad way. Just like every other big musician who dies before their time, his legacy and legend grows with every generation that never really knew of him or weren't alive when they were around.

I personally love his music, mostly with the Beatles.

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#10

Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:11 PM

Nothing wrong with his music particularly but he's always seemed a bit stuck up to me. Then again I suppose being a member of The Beatles could be a reasonable excuse for that.

Slamman
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#11

Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:55 PM

Most outspoken in the Beatles, or after, but the same general argument can be made of any pop star in the modern era, take Justin Timberlake, Madonna, and Justin Bieber as examples! It's pretty clear to me

Mr White0161
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#12

Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:49 PM

I agree that he is overrated. Personally I hate John Lennon and the Beatles. I think the music that was produced by Lennon and the Beatles was crap. I know many will argue that with me but I also know many agree with me. Quite frankly I think he should have died 20yrs before he did but that's just me...

Slamman
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#13

Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:48 AM

Come on, I can't even take that seriously. You can't flat out hate everything, unless all their voices annoy you! ha ha

El_Diablo
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#14

Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:47 AM

QUOTE (Mr White0161 @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 16:49)
I agree that he is overrated. Personally I hate John Lennon and the Beatles. I think the music that was produced by Lennon and the Beatles was crap. I know many will argue that with me but I also know many agree with me. Quite frankly I think he should have died 20yrs before he did but that's just me...

yeah this is hyperbolic nonsense, I'm sorry.

nothing you said is really fitting with the discussion.

Slamman
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#15

Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:28 AM

If it weren't for the Beatles, some would have remained uninspired to take up music, and by some, I mean later generations that you actually LIKE!, perhaps LOVE!!
One such person is Blackie Lawless of W.A.S.P., another is Ozzy Osbourne, who really is a Beatles fan, I believe also giving them credit was Tom Gabriel Fischer of Celtic Frost!!
You also wouldn't have BEATALLICA to enjoy!

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#16

Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:59 AM

I was a much bigger fan of Paul by far. He was a better pop music writer and an all around better musician. Lennon wrote some good songs, but like someone else Paul had him beat easily.

Slamman
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#17

Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:05 AM

I know at least one bass player over the years who loves Paul's bass playing, but I don't find it standing out from other notables, I do like the guy though, it's too bad about his recent marriage that didn't work out, and he lost Linda.
I would say I was just not a fan of Wings, but over the years, you hear songs often enough, they become ones you eventually like, as with A Little Luck and Hey Jude (about Julian Lennon, as I mentioned before)

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#18

Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:18 AM

Compared to George and Paul; yes. He was a better song writer, but an inferior singer and musician. A real arrogant prick, too.

Slamman
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#19

Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:49 AM

How so? You guys act like you knew the guy personally, remember impressions are different I'd say

Mister Pink
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#20

Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:59 PM

Overrated? Not really. He was part of a band and was the main lead singer for that band, The Beatles which had a smaller career than most bands, lasting only 7 years.

They made some weird and progressive music and broke down some boundaries in pop music. They changed the face of Rock and Pop forever.

Lennon, then went on to write some nice music after that songs like Imagine, Beautiful Boy, Mother. He was a man that wanted peace. He had a short fuse for corruption and the wrong things in the world.

You can assess John Lennon's writing skills or musical skills, his wit etc but you can't ignore his personal life, being assassinated, being in one of the biggest most influential bands in the world, writing a world anthem (Imagine) having a Christmas song that's played every year.

All these things create John Lennon and who he is and its in his music. It's very hard to just say his music is overrated because being John Lennon wasn't just about music.

I'm not a huge fan or anything but I know a good bit about him I respect him.

Slamman
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#21

Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:40 PM Edited by Slamman, 12 April 2012 - 06:43 PM.

I bought the Lennon Best Of cassette after I heard Jealous Guy from the Black Crowes, and both versions are far and above most songs recorded today, and that's why I have the respect for him more so then in my youth, his songs still resonate, and I think there is honesty and artistry there, it's never music for commercialism sake.
I am not even a real Beatles fan, but I think there's almost a backlash against the popular stigma that they have, over Led Zeppelin or The Stones, even the Who, The Who I like much more then the Beatles, and even the Eagles, who I always promote in some way, since who knows if they'll ever continue to tour.

I say if the live show comes around, you should get down and see it, before it never happens again

El_Diablo
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#22

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:15 AM

don't get me wrong.
I have nothing but respect for Lennon.

but I maintain that he's put on too high of a pedestal.
I think he's overrated in pop culture but that doesn't mean I think he was irrelevant.

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#23

Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:21 AM

In my opinion, No he is not Overrated at all musically.

You can look at any great musicians in modern history and suggest they are overrated; Elvis, Johnny Cash, Eric Clapton, Michael Jackson and etc.

They all deserve the honours and recognition they get for being So well received by so many people for different generations and influencing thousands of other artists, Every Rock band of the last 50 years has been influenced by The Beatles in some shape or form whether that be the Song writing or recording techniques and John Lennon was a huge part of that.

About his personal life I honestly don't care about a Musician or Actors home life should effect their work.

Slamman
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#24

Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:39 AM

Suffice to say, he's more overrated not because of anything he did, but the adoring public throngs

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#25

Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:08 AM

For those who don't appreciate Lennon - or even Lennon/McCartney - I'll leave this here for your musical educationment.













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#26

Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Apr 13 2012, 00:15)
but I maintain that he's put on too high of a pedestal.

All of the game changers are put on super high pedestals. And there is no denying that he was part of a game changing band. He also wrote some great lyrics that the world needed at the time - he earned his spot high atop his pedestal.

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#27

Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:20 PM

Musically, he was very accomplished and deserves a lot of praise.
But as a human being he was morally reprehensible and a fascist. So I can't enjoy his music because I can't seperate the man from his offensive, disgusting political and social views.

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#28

Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:23 PM

QUOTE (trip @ Saturday, Apr 14 2012, 18:16)
QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Friday, Apr 13 2012, 00:15)
but I maintain that he's put on too high of a pedestal.

All of the game changers are put on super high pedestals. And there is no denying that he was part of a game changing band. He also wrote some great lyrics that the world needed at the time - he earned his spot high atop his pedestal.

I agree. Whatever your opinion on Lennon, The Beatles or any other pivotal figures in music at the time, they gave the world something they could latch onto, run with and live by. They have resonance now because of their legacy. I don't quite know how a legacy is formed or how it is perpetuated but I doubt we'll see something remotely similar by any of today's music contenders.

Besides, I'm more of a Harrison man.

darthYENIK
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#29

Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Mr White0161 @ Wednesday, Apr 11 2012, 15:49)
I agree that he is overrated. Personally I hate John Lennon and the Beatles. I think the music that was produced by Lennon and the Beatles was crap. I know many will argue that with me but I also know many agree with me. Quite frankly I think he should have died 20yrs before he did but that's just me...

Actually, not many people agree with you. As far as I can tell, the Beatles are probably the most well loved band to have ever existed. I hear people hate on every other band under the sun, and I'm talking about in real life, not the internet (AKA the lightning rod for sh*t talk), and young, old, the heaviest metal heads, the biggest pop fans, all of them love the Beatles, in one way or another. Then there are the people that are indifferent, which is an okay chunk But then, there is a very small amount of people that actually hate them. Usually because other people like them. Which lends to the overrated-ness.

Not saying you shouldn't hate them. That's your opinion. Just that you're in a pretty small minority.

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#30

Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:03 PM

As a musician? No, not really. He produced a lot of great stuff. Even though in the Lennon-McCartney partnership, I always leaned more for McCartney's work (for example, I think Hello Goodbye is the much better single than I Am The Walrus).

As a person...probably. Even though he's often portrayed as "St. John of Peace", he was...well, prone to being a massive dick.




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