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I can see a resemblance here!

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Toup
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#31

Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:21 PM Edited by Toup, 03 April 2012 - 06:30 PM.

QUOTE (Tyler @ Monday, Mar 26 2012, 22:13)
QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Sunday, Mar 25 2012, 01:49)
Can we break the planets down to certerain elements e.g earth has an oxygen atmospher so that could be oxygen +1.

Not sure what you mean by this to be honest, oyster. We already know how to find out what elements planets are made of, and planets are (usually) made of varying parts. We may have oxygen but we're a planet heavy in carbon, for instance.

QUOTE
Man, I've wondered about this since I was 10. Fun thing is, you'll never know, you wont live that long.


With that attitude we wouldn't get anywhere. Curiosity and the need to find out is what fuels almost all scientists out there. Just accepting that you'll never know is the same thing as giving up.

I meant you won't live to travel through space in light speed.

Curiosity is a thing I'm not missing, but today's society just take's it out of me. Until the day that I get enough courage to show everyone the finger, I won't be studying physics (which is something I really want to do, by the way). It's happening right now, I'm studying Latin instead of Maths&Physics and I don't even know why. Anyway, this topic is not about me.

Now, I cannot wait for the day someone discovers something so incredible that it changes life as we know it.

Btw, oyster, you keep ignoring some laws that, well, are basic stuff that you learn on 7th grade.

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#32

Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE
Btw, oyster, you keep ignoring some laws that, well, are basic stuff that you learn on 7th grade.


Care to help me out here then? or do people forget how to debate and discuss?

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#33

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:02 PM

QUOTE

Curiosity is a thing I'm not missing, but today's society just take's it out of me. Until the day that I get enough courage to show everyone the finger, I won't be studying physics (which is something I really want to do, by the way). It's happening right now, I'm studying Latin instead of Maths&Physics and I don't even know why. Anyway, this topic is not about me.


Toup,

Don't let the way society reacts to things keep you from studying physics. Think about it, I'm not saying "don't study Latin" but if that's all you study what kind of jobs will be available to you? You don't have to become a physicist either. I took a ton of physics and now I'm a mechanical engineer and I was able to avoid getting laid off even when the economy was bad. Just because there are things we won't live to see discovered doesn't mean we shouldn't study in those disciplines.

Failure
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#34

Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:33 PM

Toup, mathematics and physics are wonderful disciplines, you shouldn't let apprehension dissuade you. I've no intention of being condescending here, but if you want to start looking at advanced physics and maths in earnest, you could do a lot worse than Khan Academy and naturally MIT's Open Courseware.

Anyway, Oysterbarron, I'm afraid your model is quite flawed. Your problem is quite simple. You're trying to compare our solar system to a classical, Newtonian picture of the atom where electrons "orbit" a central nucleus. But this simply isn't so. Electrons exist in discrete, quantised energy levels within atoms in charge clouds, wherein we cannot determine with certainty to where they'll go. Instead we can only say that they exist in regions of electron density (orbiatls) where an electron is likely to be found. This is why planetary motion and particle physics are so different--Newtonian mechanics provides an excellent estimate in determining planetary motion, but F=ma is useless when trying to describe the behaviour of sub-atomic particles.

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#35

Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

Yeah i think we can disregard my first comparison i realize there alot different now but it was originally what got me thinking about the bigger picture. Someone made a good point about the m8cro world is very different from the micro world so im suggesting that the solar system is the super macro world and is made up from the atomic world we live in. I dont really know how to put it but its kind of like our view on dimensions we have a scale of dimensions and 8 beleive that there are more dimensions after our world but on the same plain.

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#36

Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

Perhaps that famous picture of human brain cell and electrical activity in the universe would make a better comparison. They both appear similar with the naked eye.

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#37

Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

Oo youve interested me now please feel free to post it.

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#38

Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:40 PM

user posted image

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#39

Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:50 PM

Wow that picture was well worth the wait found something like it but that looks amazing so we could be part of a biological being.

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#40

Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Monday, Apr 9 2012, 15:50)
Wow that picture was well worth the wait found something like it but that looks amazing so we could be part of a biological being.

Just because they look alike dosn't mean the Universe is recursive.

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#41

Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

And just because you think it isnt recursive doesnt mean it isnt!

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#42

Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:32 PM

When you actually learn what an atom consists of, and how a single atom is not composed of more than one element, you will realize how silly that belief was.

Just because something looks alike doesn't mean it is.

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#43

Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:58 AM

There are basic geometric figures that appear because of the physics of our universe. Those two images look alike =/= the universe is some metaphysically connected web of oneness. At least not in that sense. I could easily say a spider web with some dead bugs on it looks similar to the universe, but that doesn't mean anything. It's a coincidence not a conspiracy.

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#44

Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:45 AM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Monday, Apr 9 2012, 16:12)
And just because you think it isnt recursive doesnt mean it isnt!

I'm done debating with you. You are just thick headed.

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#45

Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:13 AM

Whatever the ultimate answers to the universe are, I don't think they will be discovered on a forum. I personally don't think we understand the big picture. If space is infinite, that is it is never ending outwards and inwards, from the "biggest" to the "smallest", then it would seem to me that we only can see and know a fraction of the "universe". Of course "fraction" wouldn't really come into play because it puts a limit on the universe. I notice that many like to believe that we may not know it all but what we do know is enough to have an understanding of our existence, where we came from, and why we are here. If we all had that way of thinking then we wouldn't know what we know today. We would still be believing that the earth was flat and the center of the universe. It is that kind of lack in imagination that we see in history and shake our heads at in disgrace. I don't mean that we should just think up something and say "this is it, this is what its all about". I think we should just be open-minded and not throw out a possibility just because we might not like its implications. We are better than that. We should keep ideas on the table until we can prove them false. Right now how I see it both sides of this debate, the universe is solid, random, and us disconected from it, to, the universe seems solid, intelligent, and us an conscious extension of it. Or whatever else we might think up. I don't believe one way or the other I just have ideas of what it could be like. That, to me, is the philosophers/scientists/free thinkers way.

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#46

Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:22 AM

Its good to find a fellow free thinker. People are to wrapped up in facts they seem to forget that science is an ever changing environment. Goin gods last comment is a great example just because im not following down his line of current facts means im thick headed. No its completly the opposite he cant think about anything other than the facts wheras i open my mind up to any possibility wether it be fact or fiction. Just because we know how things work on an atomic scale doesnt mean that we completly understand its interactions on other scales. Anyone can say no that wont work or thats not right but it takes a true scientist to be able to entertain new ideas no matter how crazy they may sound.

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#47

Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:51 AM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 04:22)
Its good to find a fellow free thinker. People are to wrapped up in facts they seem to forget that science is an ever changing environment. Goin gods last comment is a great example just because im not following down his line of current facts means im thick headed. No its completly the opposite he cant think about anything other than the facts wheras i open my mind up to any possibility wether it be fact or fiction. Just because we know how things work on an atomic scale doesnt mean that we completly understand its interactions on other scales. Anyone can say no that wont work or thats not right but it takes a true scientist to be able to entertain new ideas no matter how crazy they may sound.

this hypothesis is broken. an atom consists of one element. like a hydrogen atom consists of one element: hydrogen. our solar system consists of over 100 elements. That right there refutes this idea. And anyway, the entities which you are comparing to planets, are things completely different from planets.

they might look like similar models, but just because they look similar, does not mean that they could possibly be the same. "OMG, like ATOMS could be like A REAL SOLAR SYSTEM!"

And i'm glad you're open minded and a free thinker, but don't let your mind be so open that any sort of unpopular idea sticks to it.

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#48

Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:15 AM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 18:33)
QUOTE (Robinski @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 18:31)
Yeah, your model kind of falls apart once you get to the galactic and extra-galactic scales.

can we go into a bit of detail about that as im not sure what you mean?

If you look at any map(s) of the universe (3d not 2d) it looks nothing like the structure of an atom. Also galaxy's themselves don't look like atoms either. They're in more of a whipped pudding shape.

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#49

Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:12 PM

Yes but collections of atoms that makes elements don't look like a atom anymore but that doesn't make them not atoms!

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#50

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Saturday, Apr 28 2012, 13:12)
Yes but collections of atoms that makes elements don't look like a atom anymore but that doesn't make them not atoms!

I'm sorry, but this post is just incoherent. I'm really not sure what you're trying to communicate.

I implore you to familiarise yourself with some fundamental chemistry and particle physics before you post in this topic again.

Khan academy has a good selection of chemistry videos.

This page should clear up your misconceptions concerning atomic structure.

Please don't think I'm condescending you--I just want you to open your eyes a bit; doing such would make your posts valid and less headache-inducing to read. I'd also like to remind you that learning science and mathematics doesn't make myself, Coin God, K^2 or anyone else less of a "free thinker". If you strive to understand something from first principles, then you're not learning by parrot, but forging a real connection with the material. However, by asserting that you, someone with superficial knowledge of the physical sciences, have "worked out the universe" is the antithesis of logical, reasoned thought, in fact it's just pure, unsubstantiated conjecture, which I can't call "free thought" as it barely stands up as thought at all. I apologise if I'm coming off a antagonistic, and I honestly do respect you for having an open mind, but there's a good reason why you're getting nowhere in your arguments, and it's NOT because we're opposed to you having radical new ideas--it's because we're opposed to you expounding scientifically ignorant ideas.

I understand that some of the best scientific ideas faced intense scrutiny and took years to be accepted--the work of Galileo, Boltzmann, De Broglie, Einstein, Cantor and many other great minds epitomises this--but I'm afraid that your idea is just conjecture. Don't get me wrong, I DO encourage thinking of any kind, but until you gain a more sound understanding of the physical sciences, any theory of yours will have no validity whatsoever.

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#51

Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

I will try and learn some new things but i think my initial statement is throwing you all off. Maybe its best if you forget my resemblance i made as that is all that sparked this thought process. If i understood the comment correctly about the Macro world and the micro world keeping scientists up, then they are very different from each-other, that's what i'm saying about the solar system and the galaxy at large. They are just the next steps up the ladder from the atomic world we live in. Allthough they dont look the same i beleive the parts and substances within them define them as certain objects. I don't think its that far out considering we can observe it just by walking outside! considering some of the other widely accepted theories of dark matter that is as yet unobserved i don't think its that hard to grasp.

I know myself from leaving school 7 years ago that certain things we learnt in science then are well out of date now, As new discovery's are made the old way of looking at things is then defunct and not correct, looking at it that way then even with all our scientific knowledge as it is now it could be brought into disrepute just by one simple discovery therefore i like to make my own assumptions on how i think it works rather than trying to base my theories on scientific knowledge that could be proved wrong in years to come.

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#52

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:00 AM

"Your cure is within you, but you do not know
Your illness is from you but you do not see.
You are the "Clarifying Book" Through whose letters becomes manifest the hidden.
You suppose that you're a small body But the greatest world unfolds within you.
You would not need what is outside yourself If you would reflect on 'self', but you do not reflect."
- Hz.Ali

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#53

Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:17 PM

QUOTE (playaindahood @ Monday, Apr 9 2012, 20:51)
QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Tuesday, Apr 10 2012, 04:22)
Its good to find a fellow free thinker. People are to wrapped up in facts they seem to forget that science is an ever changing environment. Goin gods last comment is a great example just because im not following down his line of current facts means im thick headed. No its completly the opposite he cant think about anything other than the facts wheras i open my mind up to any possibility wether it be fact or fiction. Just because we know how things work  on an atomic scale doesnt mean that we completly understand its interactions on other scales. Anyone can say no that wont work or thats not right but it takes a true scientist to be able to entertain new ideas no matter how crazy they may sound.

this hypothesis is broken. an atom consists of one element. like a hydrogen atom consists of one element: hydrogen. our solar system consists of over 100 elements. That right there refutes this idea. And anyway, the entities which you are comparing to planets, are things completely different from planets.

they might look like similar models, but just because they look similar, does not mean that they could possibly be the same. "OMG, like ATOMS could be like A REAL SOLAR SYSTEM!"

And i'm glad you're open minded and a free thinker, but don't let your mind be so open that any sort of unpopular idea sticks to it.

You do realize hydrogen atoms are made up of more than just hydrogen, right? lol...


A hydrogen atom is made up of electrons protons and neutrons, all of which are made up of smaller parts, which those smaller parts are also made of smaller parts..

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#54

Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE (GrandMaster Smith @ Tuesday, Jul 17 2012, 17:17)
A hydrogen atom is made up of electrons protons and neutrons, all of which are made up of smaller parts, which those smaller parts are also made of smaller parts..

Actually the most common form of hydrogen is made up of simply a proton and an electron. And electrons are not made up of 'smaller parts' for they are elementary particles. Also the 'smaller parts' of neutrons and protons (up and down quarks) are not made up of 'smaller parts' because they too are elementary.

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#55

Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

I know this post really isn't D&D worthy but neither is this thread. What the f*ck is even being discussed in here?

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#56

Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:28 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Jul 17 2012, 19:22)
I know this post really isn't D&D worthy but neither is this thread. What the f*ck is even being discussed in here?

It seems like they are trying to find a god through physical means. It can only hint at it. "God" is found within you.
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#57

Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:59 PM

QUOTE (Toup @ Monday, Mar 26 2012, 19:49)
Man, I've wondered about this since I was 10. Fun thing is, you'll never know, you wont live that long.

I always find this type of comment very stupid. It's almost like you're the smart ass with the smile like you know something I don't. Why do we have to wait until he's dead before we find Santa Claus living on a moon somewhere in a Galaxy far, far away? An alien could visit us in 5 minutes and advance us by x amount of years, give us the answers, take me to see Santa, etc, etc. It's impossible to know, but it could happen at any time, because I don't think there is a human alive who has a clue what is going on.




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