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I can see a resemblance here!

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OysterBarron
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#1

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:24 PM

They all say size is relative! im not 100% sure about the ins and outs of atoms but i beleive our solar system resembles an atom, you have the main nucleus in the middle (the sun) and other atoms circling it that changes the type of atom.

atom

user posted image

universe

user posted image

what material would our solar system be if it were an atom?



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#2

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:28 PM

That's a drawing of our solar system, not the universe.

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#3

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Sorry i meant that the different solar systems are the atoms and the universe is the actual object of witch we make!

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#4

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:31 PM

Yeah, your model kind of falls apart once you get to the galactic and extra-galactic scales.

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#5

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:31 PM

Not sure, but I remember seeing a live show of Billy Connolly's online and his theory of the universe was exactly this.



His views on God and the universe are indeed popular, and it isn't exactly new to compare the two. One startling comparison is the splitting of an atom resembles a space phenomenon - it's either the death of a star or the forming of a nova. I don't remember which. His metaphors are mundane (leg of a chair, or a cup of tea) but I get what he means. I can't say I share the belief but it's an interesting perspective, which he manages to twist into a rather funny segment of his show. Things only look like that because that's how physics dictate. When you get into truly massive and large structures in space, this doesn't hold water.

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#6

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:33 PM

QUOTE (Robinski @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 18:31)
Yeah, your model kind of falls apart once you get to the galactic and extra-galactic scales.

can we go into a bit of detail about that as im not sure what you mean?

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#7

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:36 PM

You slipped in that reply about solar systems being individual atoms while I was typing that up. What I meant was that galaxies as their own entities, and how galaxies interact (if they do) don't follow the same model as individual systems i.e. they aren't all necessarily revolving around a central point.

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#8

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

QUOTE
what material would our solar system be if it were an atom?


None. Since it isn't an atom.

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#9

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:48 PM Edited by oysterbarron, 24 March 2012 - 06:54 PM.

If i remember correctly they theorize that dark matter supposedly bonds the universe together, perhaps this is what bonds the atoms in place to make the object (universe) what it is. Over time the bonds become weaker moving apart as the object (universe) breaks down over time.

differnt atoms are made up by adding other atoms of different types together so the different materials that are found on each planet could in therioe go towards making a different atom, We can see varying amounts of planets of shape and size and material in other solar systems. And allthough im not sure each planet could have a positive or negative charge depending on size?

Basically what billy connerly says!

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#10

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:56 PM Edited by goin-god, 24 March 2012 - 06:59 PM.

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 15:48)
differnt atoms are made up by adding other atoms of different types together...

What? That's how you make molecules. Diferent Atoms are created in the Stars.

Unless you meant fuse, in wich case it's true. But it takes a sh*t load of energy to do so, hence why Stars do it.

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#11

Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

Four forces are governing our universe: gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear and weak nuclear. Learn a thing or two about them and you might get some answers.

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#12

Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:14 PM Edited by oysterbarron, 24 March 2012 - 11:34 PM.

Am i right in thinking that atoms at our scale all have a certain ammount of radiation decay in all of them?

what is past an atom can we see what it looks like yet?

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#13

Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 20:14)
Am i right in thinking that atoms at our scale all have a certain ammount of radiation decay in all of them?

what is past an atom can we see what it looks like yet?

Electrons, Protons and Neutrons. Learn some basic chemistry and physics man.

Protons are made of 2 up quarks and 1 down quark.
Neutrons are made of 1 up quark and 2 down quarks.

Electrons are not divisible. At least that's what we know.

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#14

Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:57 AM

I once had the thought that perhaps all of the dividing down from molecules, to atoms, to protrons, electrons, quarks and all that... I figure that sooner or later we will go past that and find further subdivisions of quarks, and whatever subdivions of those subdivisions... You get kind of a Russian Doll type effect where one piece contains a smaller piece, which contains a smaller piece, repeat...

Seems like one central theme that has always been there for this stuff ( or at least our theories on it) is orbit of some kind, and I always thought.... What if that could apply to our solar system, galaxy and maybe even to the "universe" in ways we don't know of yet...

I mean, what if the Milky Way galaxy and its neighboring solar systems all comprised nothing but some kind of "atom" of a "molecule" of some type of matter we cannot comprehend. In all reality, all of this stat dust and little dirt balls with "life" would all equate to "matter" in the end. I always thought it would be interesting if the known universe was actually a just a very small part of something huge. It's own molecule in some kind of particle of something so large we can never even know we are a part of it, or what it even is. Maybe we just comprise a spec of dust on some kind of higher being's shelf if for a quick comparison...

When thinking of that I can't help but think of all the little "universes" that exist on small levels, but even grander than atoms. Do you think ants even realize the magnitude of what they are a part of? I mean assuming they have some kind of sentience... An ant is easier to personify and think of as a sentient being than bacteria however, but even then you could say there exist even smaller "worlds" or another "universe" or whatever.

I think humans are pretty crazy little creatures to even think about all of this, but there isn't really any reason to assume we are anything special. For all we know, we could be in some kind of intergalactic petri dish and could be likened to a bacteria... Or maybe as the movie Men in Black suggests, just a marble like object in some intergalactic game...

But then that is when I know I have had too much...

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#15

Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:49 AM

Soz its been about 8 years since i studied the sciences but i do try to keep up with certain developments but theres things that are getting a little hazy nowdays. As voyager found out our solar system is within another bubble when it left our system if you look back then you see our 9 main planets orbiting our sun. And it has different planets of different mass and varying sudstances within it. Can we break the planets down to certerain elements e.g earth has an oxygen atmospher so that could be oxygen +1.

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#16

Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:20 PM Edited by sivispacem, 26 March 2012 - 09:15 PM.

damn poeple , maybe we all life on a atom from a i dont know ... a freaking large obama's pussy ? biggrin.gif
i dont think your right , but maybe....


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#17

Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:49 PM

Man, I've wondered about this since I was 10. Fun thing is, you'll never know, you wont live that long.

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#18

Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Sunday, Mar 25 2012, 01:49)
Can we break the planets down to certerain elements e.g earth has an oxygen atmospher so that could be oxygen +1.

Not sure what you mean by this to be honest, oyster. We already know how to find out what elements planets are made of, and planets are (usually) made of varying parts. We may have oxygen but we're a planet heavy in carbon, for instance.

QUOTE
Man, I've wondered about this since I was 10. Fun thing is, you'll never know, you wont live that long.


With that attitude we wouldn't get anywhere. Curiosity and the need to find out is what fuels almost all scientists out there. Just accepting that you'll never know is the same thing as giving up.

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#19

Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:02 AM

It seems the microcosm and the macrocosm are of similar form. A central powerful energy source with smaller "spheres" revolving around it. As Nicolas Cage once remarked, "Everything you see is in a constant state of vibration, thus the illusion of solidity". Hmmm. Deep. The atoms made of "energy" are not themselves solid yet "converge" to form solid matter which in turn forms our planet, solar system, galaxy, universe, multiverse...? "Time and space neverending, disturbing thoughts, questions pending, limitation of human understanding". I don't know, maybe.

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#20

Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:10 PM Edited by oysterbarron, 28 March 2012 - 02:14 PM.

Basically tyler what im trying to get at is elements are made up of groups of atoms eg 4 carbon atoms 2 oxygen to form an element, if we look within our heliosphere that our sun produces there are certain elements in the different planets that the heliosphere protects all rotating around our sun these vary from carbon rich planets like you stated to gas giants of varying make up. If you look from the outside of our heliosphere towards our solar system then these materials could define ultimatley what kind of element our heliosphere is. when we look at other solar systems and stars they have some of the same charateristics as our solar system except the planets vary in density and size, Say that our systems planet jupiter is +4 helium then another gas giant that is slightly smaller and located in another solar system could be +3 helium that intern could change the element that heliosphere is.

I hope im making slightly more sense here!

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#21

Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (oysterbarron @ Wednesday, Mar 28 2012, 15:10)
Basically tyler what im trying to get at is elements are made up of groups of atoms eg 4 carbon atoms 2 oxygen to form an element

Straight up, you're wrong. Elements are formed of a single kind of atom in varying quantities.

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#22

Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:47 PM Edited by oysterbarron, 28 March 2012 - 08:51 PM.

Ok then well bit confused there. So depending on star size depends on what kind of elements you get. larger the size of star the denser elements you get. Our solar system is a collection of atoms of varying quanties that could make up a penultimate element of withch is contained within our heliosphere. Therefore our heliosphere could be an element in itself.

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#23

Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

Lets start with the fact that the atom you posted the image for actually looks something like this.

user posted image

And the picture you posted is an illustration for little children. The rest of your argument just doesn't even make sense.

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#24

Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:55 AM Edited by oysterbarron, 30 March 2012 - 09:58 AM.

I think the problem here is people cant comprehend what im trying to say! I probably dont help in my explanations!

OK i made a picture up. Hopefully this will help people understand where i'm trying to come from I have made up terms in order to try and explain in an easyier manor.

Atoms>elements>super elements>Greater elements>Object

user posted image

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#25

Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

Well...

QUOTE
And the picture you posted is an illustration for little children. The rest of your argument just doesn't even make sense.

Indeed, physics on the micro and macro level have little to nothing to do with each other (which is something that even nowadays keeps scientist up at night).

You cant really compare a planets orbit with an electrons probability cloud.

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#26

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:57 PM

Thinking about it when we measure the light coming from the different stars in order to work out what they are made of, The heliospheres could actually act as a filter just like if you put a piece of colored perspex in front of a white light!

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#27

Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

QUOTE (3niX @ Friday, Mar 30 2012, 14:47)
You cant really compare a planets orbit with an electrons probability cloud.

Probability being the important word there icon14.gif

Yeah, the connection from in small to large is currently the holy grail of physics. Quantum theroy explains the small, Einsteins theroy explains the visible and large. Connecting the two is still larger unknown. Although great progress is currently happening.

I find it remarkable that in the topic about belief in science the general feeling was, well no. But yet in hear many replys are straight up a belief that our model of atoms, and the basic building blocks of the 3 particles (quarks, leptons etc etc) is being put across as the way it is. Too many confused folk around here.


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#28

Posted 02 April 2012 - 03:50 PM

Other than them making up the next level of matter i dont beleive they are connected. Thats what im trying to get at here. Allthough they bear a resemberlance each stage is different. But i believe that after our scale of atoms of witch we are, the next step of matter is solar systems then galaxys then the wider galaxy, that goto making up the universe. Wether there are any other stages of matter after the universe who knows.

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#29

Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:10 PM

You do realise that an atom isn't exactly shaped like that? Electrons at that level don't tend to orbit; rather they're in a state of flux. Quantum mechanics at that level mean that it's more like a cloud of electrons, covering the area they're likely to be. That, and galaxies, galaxy groups and galactic filaments look nothing like that. What you're describing is the similarity between orbiting systems.

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#30

Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:48 PM

Yes we have come to that conclusion throughout the previous post's in the topic! allthough i was confused about science basics at first, it was that original child's representation that got me thinking about the wider picture!

what do the filaments look like then?




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