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Trayvon Martin

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The Killa
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#1

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:14 PM

Any of you been keeping up with this? A seventeen year old, Trayvon Martin, shot and killed by an unregistered neighborhood "watchman" (George Zimmerman) just on the grounds of "looking suspicious". Ultimately, Trayvon Martin had in his possession a bag of Skittles candy and an iced tea.

Zimmerman claims self defense, but the evidence on several Youtube videos and 911 calls is pretty damning.



^ A neighbors 911 call, pretty shocking. Can clearly hear him yelling "help", shortly before a gunshot - followed by silence. Zimmerman has yet to be arrested.

Anyway, discuss. The idiot should hand himself in.

08LasVenturas
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#2

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:24 PM

The shooter, Zimmerman, was a "self-appointed" neighborhood watch captain, if that doesn't tell you enough right there. He also holds a criminal record I believe. We don't have the whole story yet. There WAS a physical fight between the two, Zimmerman had a busted nose, so it's not like he just up and shot the kid for fun. However, Zimmerman followed him for no reason other than the fact that the kid looked suspicious, and continued to do so even after 911 told him not to. Trayvon probably got spooked and confronted the guy about why he was following him, and nobody knows what happened from there except that Trayvon died.

I hope this doesn't turn into a civil rights crusade. I think more criticism should be placed on the fact that he abused his right to bear arms, not the fact that Trayvon was black.

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#3

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:32 PM

Sure, I've been following it - ever since it happened. Sad racial profiling that cost the life of innocent person.

Just the fact that Zimmerman is a self appointed town watch person and ignored the 911 operator's instructions to not purse should be enough to get him in serious trouble - I hope. Florida has that f*cked up law that lets people shoot first and ask questions later though...so he will get off scott free since Trayvon can't tell his side of the story and there were no witnesses....unless there were a few white(bigoted) witnesses that won't say anything since the kid was black and by nature that makes him bad in their f*cked up raciest minds.

This is one of those stories that really pisses me off. A [seemingly] good kid dies while a cold hearted killer gets to continue living his f*cked up life.

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#4

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:32 PM Edited by Chunkyman, 23 March 2012 - 11:41 PM.

Guh... More Facebook activism. suicidal.gif

I don't know if the guy murdered him or not because there isn't enough conclusive evidence either way. It's idiotic to declare his guilt or innocence without more evidence (assumptions aren't an adequate reason to throw someone into a little cage for the rest of their life). I do find it interesting to see the number of people zealously demanding him to be thrown in prison for the rest of his life, though. Mob mentality at its finest...

I'm glad I don't live in Florida because, rest assured, their politicians will have a steaming pile of knee jerk legislation to remove self defense / second amendment rights.

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#5

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:33 PM

QUOTE (08LasVenturas @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 23:24)
I hope this doesn't turn into a civil rights crusade. I think more criticism should be placed on the fact that he abused his right to bear arms, not the fact that Trayvon was black.

This.

I must say this passed me by until it came on the 10 o'clock news. A sad story.

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#6

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:42 PM

If that kid was white, and the shooter was black, in the same circumstances, the shooter would be in jail, ASAP.

It f*cking makes me sick that in modern times, people are STILL racists. I mean just because a persons a different color, on't make them any less of a person.

Huh, maybe they'll get him because people are mad about it.

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#7

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 17:32)
Guh... More Facebook activism.  suicidal.gif

I don't know if the guy murdered him or not because there isn't enough conclusive evidence either way. It's idiotic to declare his guilt or innocence without more evidence (assumptions aren't an adequate reason to throw someone into a little cage for the rest of their life).  I do find it interesting to see the number of people zealously demanding him to be thrown in prison for the rest of his life, though. Mob mentality at its finest...

I'm glad I don't live in Florida because, rest assured, their politicians will have a steaming pile of knee jerk legislation to remove self defense / second amendment rights.

Don't understand your line of thinking here. Zimmerman shot him through means of confrontation - not defense, as shown in his own 911 call where he chased after Martin despite being told not to from the police. There is no doubt about that.

Therefore, that's my big question. Why is Zimmerman not in jail, at least not for questioning? Shoot first, ask questions weeks later? Absurd.

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#8

Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:58 PM

QUOTE (The Killa @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 23:47)

Don't understand your line of thinking here. Zimmerman shot him through means of confrontation - not defense, as shown in his own 911 call where he chased after Martin despite being told not to from the police. There is no doubt about that.

Therefore, that's my big question. Why is Zimmerman not in jail, at least not for questioning? Shoot first, ask questions weeks later? Absurd.


The fact that the police did a poor investigation has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the guy is guilty. To justify a guilty conviction you have to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Two reasonable doubts to his guilt include the fact that there is no forensic evidence pointing to murder, and there is no eyewitness accounts of him shooting the young man. I'm not saying the guy is innocent, I'm saying it's dumb to boldly proclaim his guilt (and say he should be imprisoned) with currently inadequate amounts of evidence.

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#9

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:03 AM

Yes, I heard about this a couple of weeks ago for the first time. Very f*cked up indeed. Who knew Skittles and Iced Tea were so dangerous to another being? I appreciate the efforts, but I see no justice coming of this. As an African American myself this does not offend me. It always pains me when any innocent youngster is killed. Hell, people who are protesting are just going to get locked up anyway. All I can say is R.I.P to the young man.


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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:04 AM

I Just heard the Gun shots, to me the Gun shots is coming front of the house confused.gif

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#11

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (Capricornus @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:03)
Who knew Skittles and Iced Tea were so dangerous to another being?

And to think the only people that benefit from this is the company that make Skittles. Their f*cking sales must have starting going crazy. You almost can't read an article on this issue without coming across a mention of Skittles. It's like product placement at this point. After reading one of the new articles on it today I wanted a bag of Skittles.

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#12

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:19 AM Edited by The Killa, 24 March 2012 - 12:22 AM.

QUOTE (Chunkyman @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 17:58)
QUOTE (The Killa @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 23:47)

Don't understand your line of thinking here. Zimmerman shot him through means of confrontation - not defense, as shown in his own 911 call where he chased after Martin despite being told not to from the police. There is no doubt about that.

Therefore, that's my big question. Why is Zimmerman not in jail, at least not for questioning? Shoot first, ask questions weeks later? Absurd.


The fact that the police did a poor investigation has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the guy is guilty. To justify a guilty conviction you have to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Two reasonable doubts to his guilt include the fact that there is no forensic evidence pointing to murder, and there is no eyewitness accounts of him shooting the young man. I'm not saying the guy is innocent, I'm saying it's dumb to boldly proclaim his guilt (and say he should be imprisoned) with currently inadequate amounts of evidence.

We'll see what facts come to light then. My own opinion, judging from the neighbors 911 call, the shooters 911 call, and the fact the police chief was forced to step down, leads me to believe that he's guilty and there was a lot of f*ck-ups in the process. But we'll see.

I don't buy into the rhetoric that Zimmerman is a racist. Sure, he might be, but I feel the kid would have gotten killed regardless of his skin color.

Also, anyone see Geraldo's piece on this on Fox News? Absolute twat, that man.

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#13

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:25 AM

The guy f*ckin did it, let him hang. Just because the system doesn't consider you guilty doesn't mean your innocent.

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#14

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

QUOTE (The Killa @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:19)
Also, anyone see Geraldo's piece on this on Fox News? Absolute twat, that man.

I didn't see it but I read the article and comments on Huffington. Best comment...
QUOTE
But that mustache of yours, Geraldo, just screams "Mexican bandit"! and makes me want to reach for my six-shooter!

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#15

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:50 AM

QUOTE (The Killa @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:19)
Also, anyone see Geraldo's piece on this on Fox News? Absolute twat, that man.

I don't see what the big deal is about that. He has a point that the hoodie he wore made him look bad. If you saw a black male at night with a hoodie with the hood on, I GUARANTEE the first thing to come to mind is "thug", whether he is or not. And that can go for any race. If you see a 40 year old white male wearing a hoodie with the hood up at night, he might come across as a pedophile or a psychopath. Hell, I wear hoodies all the time. One time I joked that when I wore my sunglasses with my hood up, I looked like the unabomber!

I commented on an article on Geraldo's words on Huffington Post, basically along the same lines as to what I said above. The replies I got just shows the stupidity of Americans. People took his words so literally, as if he said "If you wear a hoodie you will be killed". It makes me wonder how gullible and literal people here are when they see some fake tabloid headline...

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#16

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:53 AM

I'm not sure if it was racism, no one can know that for sure. To me it seems like a case of unfortunate vigilante justice in which this guy thought he was a cop and had power. I've heard he had called 911 something liek 46 times in the last couple of years. On top of that he had his own criminal record and neighborhood watch are not only supposed to just report crimes not engage, but are also not supposed to carry weapons much less use them. Especially after a dispatcher told him not to follow him! To me Zimmerman though he was somethign special and attacked a kid doing nothing wrong.

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#17

Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:59 AM Edited by ryuclan, 24 March 2012 - 01:03 AM.

Racial bullsh*t aside. The man is a suspect in a homocide case involving a 17 year old boy. He was told not to pursue the boy yet he continued to do so. If the boy confronted him I can understand that. Im not saying the boy should have but the way the police handled this is horrible. At least detain the man until evidence and reports are collected. The main has a history of violence and has been arrested for ASSAULTING A POLICE OFFICER... Is he even supposed to be in possession of a deadly weapon? This is ridiculous. At least "look into it," or whatever the f*ck cops do these days.


Edit: The charges on him were dropped regarding the assault. If anyone was wondering.

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#18

Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:46 AM

Thanks for posting this. Seriously, I live in Central Florida and this has been the main story in the local news for a couple weeks now. I think Zimmerman is Peruvian by the way (doesn't rule out he's a racist).

I heard an interview with a witness saying that it was actually Zimmerman screaming for help. That could be a game changer. I myself thought it was the voice of Trayvon. No one knows who started the supposed fight between them, Zimmerman himself had some injuries. I don't know how the all the Trayvon supporters can really demand Zimmerman's arrest if that isn't known, it puts the justice system in a tough spot.

But I cannot understand how all the Sanford police basically took for evidence from Zimmerman was his gun. His clothes, bloodstains and all could've been very useful. The Sanford Police department has had quite the history of racial profiling themselves though.

Still there has to be something done about someone provoking someone to fight them and they defend themselves with deadly force. Surely there must be some nutjobs out there wanting to harass people for no reason, only having that courage because they can kill them just like that.

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#19

Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:55 AM

QUOTE (08LasVenturas @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 18:50)
QUOTE (The Killa @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:19)
Also, anyone see Geraldo's piece on this on Fox News? Absolute twat, that man.

I don't see what the big deal is about that. He has a point that the hoodie he wore made him look bad. If you saw a black male at night with a hoodie with the hood on, I GUARANTEE the first thing to come to mind is "thug", whether he is or not.

So shall he wear a suit and tie next time he goes to the convenience store? You can't go by some fashion trend among youth to immediately identify them as a threat to your life, and in absolutely no means is it excusable to shoot them.

He wasn't trespassing, he wasn't scouting out houses, he was walking home (which was 70 meters away) after he bought f*cking Skittles and iced tea when he was shot dead by an unlicensed guard chasing down anyone who even slightly looks "suspicious", and he is currently a free man. Madness.

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#20

Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:59 AM

I don't understand why this is national news. Racial homicides occur everyday. Do we just pluck one out of a random story generator and feed it to the bored masses through their t.v.s?

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#21

Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:07 AM Edited by ryuclan, 24 March 2012 - 02:11 AM.

QUOTE (Jeeebuuus @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 01:59)
I don't understand why this is national news. Racial homicides occur everyday. Do we just pluck one out of a random story generator and feed it to the bored masses through their t.v.s?

Fox news has been doing it for years. Couple days ago they had "breaking news" which turned out to be a rumor about ray j having another sex tape...I sh*t you not.


Lol OT I think this one is big because it was so obvious that almost nothing was done to filter our the truth. When someone asks a policeman why a person was let go and they say "I respect his record. He studied criminal justice blah blah blah," there is obviously something wrong. I believe there are three reasons someone should be let off the hook. Proven innocent, made bail pending trial, time has been served.


Also regarding the hoody. Why on earth would you pursue someone you think is a dangerous individual or more or less someone with evil intentions? Honestly if Im walking down the street and someone is following me in a car, whir talking on a phone about me I'm Roger going to confront them or run the f*ck out of there.

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#22

Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:13 AM

QUOTE (trip @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 00:15)
QUOTE (Capricornus @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:03)
Who knew Skittles and Iced Tea were so dangerous to another being?

And to think the only people that benefit from this is the company that make Skittles. Their f*cking sales must have starting going crazy. You almost can't read an article on this issue without coming across a mention of Skittles. It's like product placement at this point. After reading one of the new articles on it today I wanted a bag of Skittles.

Yes indeed Trip. I said to myself, upon hearing of this story, that Skittles would sell like I don't know what, At the time I thought it was a crazy thing to say but its true.

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#23

Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:26 AM

QUOTE (Jeeebuuus @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:59)
I don't understand why this is national news. Racial homicides occur everyday. Do we just pluck one out of a random story generator and feed it to the bored masses through their t.v.s?

This one is important because the police aren't arresting the killer. The FBI is going to claim jurisdiction now as a hate crime probably because of the coon remarks on the recording. Much better than the f*cking Sanford Florida police doing it.

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#24

Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:53 AM

I think this guy is guilty as f*ck. If this was a white kid the guy would not have pursue and shot him. Its obvious this is a racial thing, luckly the fbi is now looking into this. This type of sh*t is why some people hate america, this reminds me of that soilder who shot up some innocent afgan people for no reason 2 weeks ago.

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#25

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:06 AM

Wasn't he just bringing some some candy for his sick brother? I don't know why you'd actively follow a man and shoot him because he might do something naughty in the foreseeable future.

I don't think it's as much a racial issue as one of paranoia and obvious boundary issues. This man believed himself to be on the level of police, thus why he felt qualified to chase him down the road. An obvious fantasist, I'm sure it felt very thrilling at the time and no doubt he thought he would be lauded as a hero, a man who kept his insignificant pissing grounds "safe".

But even a racist would know that there's nothing heroic about chasing a man down and shooting him as he cries for help. That's murder, not self-defense, murder. He sought this man out and ultimately felt qualified enough to end his life on the mere suspicion of wrongdoing.
Murder, plain and simple.

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#26

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:54 AM

QUOTE (08LasVenturas @ Friday, Mar 23 2012, 20:50)
He has a point that the hoodie he wore made him look bad. If you saw a black male at night with a hoodie with the hood on, I GUARANTEE the first thing to come to mind is "thug", whether he is or not.

No doubt. The first thing I think when I see someone wearing a hoodie in the rain is "this guy looks like a gangbanger". Get the f*ck outta here.

QUOTE (Typhus @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 02:06)
But even a racist would know that there's nothing heroic about chasing a man down and shooting him as he cries for help. That's murder, not self-defense, murder. He sought this man out and ultimately felt qualified enough to end his life on the mere suspicion of wrongdoing.
Murder, plain and simple.


I think you have to reserve judgement for now. Not knowing all the facts...I can see both sides of the argument. It's just too bad that Martin, who by all accounts was a good kid, ended up dying. What a f*cking shame.

Read a piece last week written by Leonard Pitts that said...

QUOTE
How can you get out of your truck against police advice, instigate a fight, get your nose bloodied in said fight, shoot the person you were fighting with, and claim self-defense? If anyone was defending himself, wasn't it Trayvon Martin?


And if that's the way it all went down (which is no certainty, mind you), he's absolutely 100% right.




However, I don' think we can say with absolute certainty that the scenario he's implying is true. At this point, facts we do know won't necessarily be enough to convict Zimmerman. At the very least, dude was reckless and impulsive...and he was probably profiling the kid because he was black. But...all that doesn't make him guilty of murder.

The 911 call made by Zimmerman apparently included something to the effect of Martin having his hand in his waist as well as him being the one who approached Zimmerman. Both those assertions complicate things legally, and mean Zimmerman's not nearly as conclusively guilty as he's being portrayed. Plus there were witnesses that claimed they saw the kid on top of Zimmerman beating the sh*t out of him, though I think they may have retracted that statement afterwards.

The law related to the case is pretty interesting. Stand Your Ground Law is an extension of Castle Doctrine. In short, it means that deadly force is acceptable when a person feels reasonably threatened. There is no duty to retreat here...and a person may "shoot first". The history behind this precedent goes back to a case the US Supreme Court presided over called Brown v. United States. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in his opinion that

QUOTE
If a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant he may stand his ground and that if he kills him he has not succeeded the bounds of lawful self defence.


QUOTE
...


QUOTE
Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.


It's an interesting talking point legally, but a f*cking moral atrocity in this instance. All we can do at this point is wait for forensic evidence and maybe ballistic reports to come to light seeing as the PD botched the f*ck outta the crime scene, didn't drug test Zimmerman and didn't take his clothing to check blood splatter. F*cking bang up job all around.

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#27

Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:59 AM

I'm not sure police can do anything here. Ok, so lets say they arrest the guy. DA needs to press charges. Say, DA get pressured into pressing charges. Say, even, that the jury finds the guy guilty, which is not guaranteed by any means. This will start off an entire chain of appeals. As a result, you'll either end up not being able to shoot a guy who broke into your house, because you'd be afraid of going to jail for it, or the appeal will actually go through, and it will make it even easier to shoot someone on the street and claim self defense.

What people should be talking about is how we can modify the laws to make these sort of things easier to prosecute without causing a whole lot of fallout. Just going after this particular shooting would only cause more problems down the line.

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#28

Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:08 AM

At least they got the guy accused, HANG 'EM in the public square. Seems the crowd want him strung up.
Anywho, maybe they should ban hoodies, after all, I'm scared when I'm approached by some mean lookin' dude on a dark street, or a gang of peeps who look like thugs, and up to no good. The problem may seem SILLY to you, but it's why this happens in the first place. Crime in poverty stricken areas makes them naturally unsafe to be in, as I see it.

That being said, my own opinion, the President's speech getting accolades also strikes me as silly, not to make light of it, but it just make me laugh a bit, as he is notably our first 'black' President. Race relations are always called into question even in regard to politics now

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#29

Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE (Attorney General @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 07:54)
The law related to the case is pretty interesting. Stand Your Ground Law is an extension of Castle Doctrine. In short, it means that deadly force is acceptable when a person feels reasonably threatened. There is no duty to retreat here...and a person may "shoot first". The history behind this precedent goes back to a case the US Supreme Court presided over called Brown v. United States. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in his opinion that

QUOTE
If a man reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant he may stand his ground and that if he kills him he has not succeeded the bounds of lawful self defence.


QUOTE
...


QUOTE
Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.


It's an interesting talking point legally, but a f*cking moral atrocity in this instance. All we can do at this point is wait for forensic evidence and maybe ballistic reports to come to light seeing as the PD botched the f*ck outta the crime scene, didn't drug test Zimmerman and didn't take his clothing to check blood splatter. F*cking bang up job all around.

Didn't the writer of the "Stand Your Ground" law come out earlier in the week and essentially say "these are categorically not the circumstances in which they law should be used, and George Zimmerman should not have been permitted to invoke the law". Also, it's the second shot on the recordings that gets me. You can estimate by the sound and ferocity of Martin's scream that the first shot was probably incapacitating, so why spend three seconds readjusting and shooting him again? It's not as if it was a swift double-tap, the second shot was clearly calculated.

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#30

Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:49 AM

QUOTE (Slamman @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 01:08)
At least they got the guy accused, HANG 'EM in the public square. Seems the crowd want him strung up.

Even though you are a moron, you must be aware of something the United States has that's called due process.

Seriously, read your Constitution one day. You might actually learn something, god forbid.




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