Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

The UK: In decline?

43 replies to this topic
TheInterpreter
  • TheInterpreter

    Player Hater

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2011

#1

Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:51 AM

Are we in decline? I can't definitively say if we are or not. I think with the military cuts and the education cuts we are on our way.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#2

Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:58 AM Edited by Irviding, 29 December 2011 - 07:11 AM.

I am not trying to offend British people or their country (infact I am predominately of British descent, 50-60%, if you count my Irish ancestry (family of Ireland is from Northern Ireland) it would be around 85%) but the British country in general has been in a downward decline since the end of World War I. At that time, it was the dominant world power. By WWII it was by no means dominant, but still very powerful.. in the top 3 I'd say. Then by the end of WWII, the Suez Crisis, it just really went exponentially down. In terms of power projection, economic strength, it has really just been declining and declining. Is it going to bottom off soon like Spain or any of the other former European power players, probably. Just not as bad as they did.

sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Absolute Dunkel:Heit

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D]
    Contribution Award [General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#3

Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:25 AM

QUOTE (TheInterpreter @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 05:51)
Are we in decline? I can't definitively say if we are or not. I think with the military cuts and the education cuts we are on our way.

I don't think education spending cuts are a symbol of decline, more of necessity. The problem, as I see it, is that the UK has failed to find it's niche in the world. We're not really Europeans, even though it would be beneficial for us to act as such; many of our Commonwealth states have lost interest in us and we're seen by some parts of the world, rightly or wrongly, as the United States' right-hand man. Same issues in terms of spending and power projection- a military that's been neutered by incompetent political wrangling, leaving us with a reasonably powerful fighting force but no real way of projecting it. Then there's economics- whilst similar nations such as Germany have found their economic strengths long ago and stick to their guns (that is, high-precision, high-technology, luxury and technical goods), our economic policy has little direction. The international markets have lost faith in financial services, which is where much of our economic strength lies; our secondary industry is improving in quality, but slower than that of many developing nations, and we struggle to compete on a cost front with new providers and on a quality front with existing ones.

In short, trying times- there's potential there for us to realise our proper place, if only we spent less time bickering and in-fighting about what was beneficial for the country and just bloody did something.

AlexGTAGamer
  • AlexGTAGamer

    Time flies when you throw a clock.

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 Sep 2010
  • None

#4

Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:14 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 11:25)
In short, trying times- there's potential there for us to realise our proper place, if only we spent less time bickering and in-fighting about what was beneficial for the country and just bloody did something.

icon14.gif

As my dad always says: "There are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians". In other words: There are too many people running their mouths off and not enough people actually doing anything.

Menaced
  • Menaced

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Mar 2009

#5

Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:34 PM Edited by Menaced, 29 December 2011 - 09:54 PM.

QUOTE (TheInterpreter @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 04:51)
military cuts

The defence cuts will no doubt impede the UK's military capability in the short-term, but the future looks reasonable if you look at what the UK is procuring for the future.

The UK is constructing two conventional aircraft carriers which will be laden with some 40 aircraft, including the JSF, AW159 and AW101, which will give the RN a huge boost in power projection capability. An airwing from just one of these aircraft carriers is apparently three times the size of the entire Tornado GR.1 force deployed during Operation Desert Fox. It is certain the UK will get at the very least one of these vessels, while the fate of the second vessel remains in political limbo. It is hoped that the Falklands War and the recent campaign in Libya will demonstrate the need for both of these carriers and help persuade our reluctant government to commission and convert the second vessel.

The UK is also constructing a batch of Type 45 destroyers, which have been hailed as some of the most capable air defence destroyers in the world, and the Type 26 frigate, which will either be constructed independently by the UK or built in a partnership with another nation. A new fleet of ballistic missile submarines is also being planned which will be equipped with the UK's future nuclear deterrent.

The UK is also capable of developing domestic UCAV and UAV's, such as BAE Taranis and BAE Mantis, and is developing other UAV platforms such as Telemos with partner nations like France. Let's also not forget the number of missiles and other munitions being developed such as CAMM, PAAMS, Storm Shadow, CVS 401 Perseus, Fire Shadow, FASGW and Meteor. Then there's the order of 22 Airbus A400M which will supplement the C-130J and C-17 Globemasters currently in service to form the UK's future transport fleet.

The UK's military has seen a decline in size over the past few decades, but so has pretty much every other nation's military of similar power, like France or Germany. Even after the severe cuts the UK has had to burden, the British military will remain a potent and capable force, which is set to become all the more capable if the politicians plan their cuts a bit better (or better yet, refrain from further defence cuts completely, at least for now) and deliver the equipment they have promised. I'd say of the three major European countries, the UK, France and Germany, the UK military will have the most capable military come 2025, backed by the second strongest economy in Europe (if CEBR's 2016 forecast is correct).

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#6

Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:02 PM

Sivis, where do you think that place should be? Amongst Europe? Stronger ties with the commonwealth (not like restoring British soveriegnty over the 15 dominions but perhaps much closer ties, unified foreign policy, free trade, etc.), or trying to cozy back up with the US? I know Cameron is sort of joining close with India lately.

sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Absolute Dunkel:Heit

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D]
    Contribution Award [General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#7

Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 20:02)
Sivis, where do you think that place should be? Amongst Europe? Stronger ties with the commonwealth (not like restoring British soveriegnty over the 15 dominions but perhaps much closer ties, unified foreign policy, free trade, etc.), or trying to cozy back up with the US? I know Cameron is sort of joining close with India lately.

My view is that Europe is the right "place" to be. The EU, as a trading bloc, is already the strongest financial institution in the world by most measures, and by some proportion at that. The problem is that, whilst all those in Europe share a degree of common heritage and are, in essence, basically from the same stock, events in recent (though by no means universally modern) times have led to a mutual attitude of suspicion between what could and should be cosy bedfellows. I've already made my thoughts clear on how the EU, as an institution, can effectively wage foreign and security policy by use of force as well as through diplomacy and economic actions (that is, making full use of the EU's Rapid Reaction Force as a tool of political power, in much the same way that the NATO security mandate acts as a force multiplier for its member states). The EU as a body possesses nations with positive relationships and links with quite literally every other state on the planet (well, save for perhaps the DPRK and Iran) and enough shared history (admittedly not all of it good) to become a real power player rather than just an economic powerhouse. I don't see the stronger commonwealth links as being a necessary separate entity because they would manifest themselves anyway through a stronger European Union. Of course the US is also an important player in this, but the aspirations of the great federation are roughly akin to those of European states and the territorial/geographical spheres of influence mean that there's little cross-over in terms of power projection. The question is really whether the US would be comfortable taking a back-seat to Europe in some areas such as the Middle East and Africa where the 'State's reputation has been sullied by previous involvement, and the reputation of other Western states is much more positive- after all, we've got basically the same aspirations and endgame.

Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#8

Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:39 PM

QUOTE (AlexGTAGamer @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 14:14)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 11:25)
In short, trying times- there's potential there for us to realise our proper place, if only we spent less time bickering and in-fighting about what was beneficial for the country and just bloody did something.

icon14.gif

As my dad always says: "There are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians". In other words: There are too many people running their mouths off and not enough people actually doing anything.

The people deserve no less. Maybe when people in this country learn to respect and obey their government, instead of comparing them to Nazis on a regular basis, we will move towards greatness.
What can we possibly achieve when our media fosters such anti-establishment sentiment? We need a common purpose, a common goal, but that cannot happen whilst people are obsessed with individuality and the rejection of all morality.
We have become weak, over tolerant and prissy. Our men have become effeminate weaklings and our children are drugged up Anarchist pigs. The government gives people so much liberty that the common man now stands on his soapbox questioning the need for that government. Questioning the very people who safeguard his freedom.
People want more accountability, they want more control, more, more, more. And why? Because they honestly feel entitled to have a real say in the political process. Like a greedy, spoiled child they cry for things they have not earned.

If the UK is in decline then the people have only themselves to blame. They have lost their soul, gambled away their dignity and whored out their pride. And for what? For what end? So a man can become a spineless coward who cannot judge others, because there really is no such thing as right and wrong, eh?

Those riots showed me, they were a bolt from beyond. When I saw the ignorant and educated united in primal, animalistic self-interest and the vile media DEFENDING them, I understood the crossroads we stood at.
We can either continue to advocate and cheer on our own destruction and decay, or we can try to muster up some courage and grow up.

bobgtafan
  • bobgtafan

    The last thing you never see

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2009

#9

Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:45 PM

QUOTE
The question is really whether the US would be comfortable taking a back-seat to Europe in some areas such as the Middle East and Africa where the 'State's reputation has been sullied by previous involvement, and the reputation of other Western states is much more positive- after all, we've got basically the same aspirations and endgame.


Well we've already watched the beginning of that in some areas with the operation in Libya with the U.S. taking a backseat to Europeans (Although to what extent is disputed). If anything a stronger Europe would be what Washington has been dreaming of, given the Pentagons calls for greater military spending by NATO members. Sense North Africa and the Middle East are more or less Europe's Latin America, I don't think Washington would have to many problems with the Europeans increasing their military strength. The Pentagon is currently going through a period of mild austery with more to probably come and I remember some grumbles about having to even get involved in Libya when the Europeans should do it. Also given Washington's refocus to East Asia and eagerness to depart from Central Asia the only question now is if the Europeans would do such a thing. My answer is no, no they wouldn't.

Sanjeem
  • Sanjeem

  • Members
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2008

#10

Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:49 PM

Well, if we are in decline we're certainly going down at a slower and much safer rate than many other European countries, especially in the Mediterranean I think it's safe to say.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#11

Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 15:45)
QUOTE
The question is really whether the US would be comfortable taking a back-seat to Europe in some areas such as the Middle East and Africa where the 'State's reputation has been sullied by previous involvement, and the reputation of other Western states is much more positive- after all, we've got basically the same aspirations and endgame.


Well we've already watched the beginning of that in some areas with the operation in Libya with the U.S. taking a backseat to Europeans (Although to what extent is disputed). If anything a stronger Europe would be what Washington has been dreaming of, given the Pentagons calls for greater military spending by NATO members. Sense North Africa and the Middle East are more or less Europe's Latin America, I don't think Washington would have to many problems with the Europeans increasing their military strength. The Pentagon is currently going through a period of mild austery with more to probably come and I remember some grumbles about having to even get involved in Libya when the Europeans should do it. Also given Washington's refocus to East Asia and eagerness to depart from Central Asia the only question now is if the Europeans would do such a thing. My answer is no, no they wouldn't.

Absolutely. The thing is though, are we prepared to let the Europeans take full control in those areas after the US has put so much capital into it? In Arabia at least, we have pretty much every country there in our sphere of influence, and Yemen is already quasi-occupied by the US. Are we going to give that up to the Europeans? I mean I just don't see that happening. France already exercises control over its former colonies in West Africa (gotta love the BS news story France put out that it was the Ivory Coast soldiers that killed that maniac and not French troops), but I suppose we could allow Europe more control in some areas of Arabia. That is if they are willing to put the money into it though. We still cover European defense, and that can't be denied. Perhaps they can take some weight off our shoulders as we go in to fight for influence in Asia.

bobgtafan
  • bobgtafan

    The last thing you never see

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2009

#12

Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:05 AM

I think the U.S. largely is ready to give up control to the Europeans but most European nations don't even spend over 2 percent of GDP on defense and given their coming population crisis and austerity because of pensions they won't be increasing it and will continue to rely on America to project power and provide security in near by regions.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#13

Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:28 AM

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:05)
I think the U.S. largely is ready to give up control to the Europeans but most European nations don't even spend over 2 percent of GDP on defense and given their coming population crisis and austerity because of pensions they won't be increasing it and will continue to rely on America to project power and provide security in near by regions.

And provide security in general for them.

bobgtafan
  • bobgtafan

    The last thing you never see

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Apr 2009

#14

Posted 30 December 2011 - 03:47 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, Dec 30 2011, 02:28)
QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:05)
I think the U.S. largely is ready to give up control to the Europeans but most European nations don't even spend over 2 percent of GDP on defense and given their coming population crisis and austerity because of pensions they won't be increasing it and will continue to rely on America to project power and provide security in near by regions.

And provide security in general for them.

Right, in a perfect world Europe would cover their own security interest and create their own sphere of influence so America can truly shift focus to the Western Hemisphere and East Asia were most of our economic and military interest are aligned. From what I understand ( and this may be misinformed) but most of the oil in the Middle East goes to China and Europe as well as things like natural gas and other minerals. In fact most of America's oil comes from the Western Hemisphere in Canada, America, Mexico and Venezuela in that order. I see no reason why America should subsidize European buying of raw materials from areas they could easily be responsible for if they increased their own military budgets.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#15

Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:20 AM

QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 22:47)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Friday, Dec 30 2011, 02:28)
QUOTE (bobgtafan @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:05)
I think the U.S. largely is ready to give up control to the Europeans but most European nations don't even spend over 2 percent of GDP on defense and given their coming population crisis and austerity because of pensions they won't be increasing it and will continue to rely on America to project power and provide security in near by regions.

And provide security in general for them.

Right, in a perfect world Europe would cover their own security interest and create their own sphere of influence so America can truly shift focus to the Western Hemisphere and East Asia were most of our economic and military interest are aligned. From what I understand ( and this may be misinformed) but most of the oil in the Middle East goes to China and Europe as well as things like natural gas and other minerals. In fact most of America's oil comes from the Western Hemisphere in Canada, America, Mexico and Venezuela in that order. I see no reason why America should subsidize European buying of raw materials from areas they could easily be responsible for if they increased their own military budgets.

Agreed. I've been supportive of Obama basically telling Europe to f*ck off lately. Compared with previous administrations, he's really cut them off from being our super strong allies we go to everything for. It's a commensal relationship with the Europeans no matter how you look at it.

leaflinks
  • leaflinks

    Peon

  • Members
  • Joined: 30 Jul 2005

#16

Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:37 PM

UK in decline in the world or internally? I think so. Nothing remains the same forever.

Melchior
  • Melchior

    come on and tell me twice

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 16 May 2009
  • Unknown

#17

Posted 03 January 2012 - 01:38 AM

I don't know, I quite like Britain.

Dimitri.
  • Dimitri.

    Angry shouty person.

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2011

#18

Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:14 PM

As a UK citizen, I can definatly account for the fact that the UK is and has been in decline for many years. For a start, you say that the social care, education and other essential service cuts are essential, yet they have enough money for private government parties costiong thousands of pounds, annual spending of hundreds of thousands of pounds on bonfires, and million pound bonuses for bankers.

This government is a very corrupt group of the elite few. It's priorities are blown out of proportion, putting their own comfort before the daily survival of that ever-increasig group of people they put below the poverty line. For example, they seem fine with giving extremely ill people no support, giving the same old reason that 'we're all making sacrifices', yet they seem to be untouched by these sacrifices we 'all' have to make.

Can't wait to move to Holland. At least in Holland you can speak out against the government without being watched for the next few weeks. And yes, I've been there.

SIKKS66
  • SIKKS66

    The Number of the Beast

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2008

#19

Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:08 AM

The biggest problem is we seem to be in denial about it. As already said, we don't do anything, we have no national identity. We used to be a seafaring nation, we used to be an industrial, economic and military powerhouse. We seem to pride ourselves on that, living in the past. We just leave it to the saps to shout "proud to be British" a lot, about anything.

Right now, do we lead the world in anything meaningful? Our politicians just do the same right-wing/left-wing dance they've done for generations but nothing tangible seems to be happening to make us "Great" Britain again (a part of me just died typing that).

The only thing we're supposed to be proud about right now is the £24billion, two-week sports day we (or rather, London) are hosting in the summer. I hope it's a damp squib, I hope Team GB (groan) fails miserably. Hopefully then we'll all pull our heads out of arse about our true place in the world.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#20

Posted 28 January 2012 - 01:13 AM

Exactly - instead of living in the present and recognizing that your country could exercise strong influence over the world, it seems to be in the past notion that they own the world still.

Ziggy455
  • Ziggy455

    I'm the writer.

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 May 2007
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [Expression]

#21

Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 01:13)
Exactly - instead of living in the present and recognizing that your country could exercise strong influence over the world, it seems to be in the past notion that they own the world still.

I live in the United Kingdom, in the heart of the recession, constant flux of illegal immigrants and rife crime.

We might as well abandon ship now. While we still have the chance, this country is f*cked.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    No bed crew

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#22

Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:36 AM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 18:53)
constant flux of illegal immigrants

Not really, no.

sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Absolute Dunkel:Heit

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [D&D]
    Contribution Award [General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2013, 2012, 2011

#23

Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Tuesday, Jan 31 2012, 02:36)
QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 18:53)
constant flux of illegal immigrants

Not really, no.

Indeed. Straw man argument, put forward by pathetic, moronic and bigoted idiots.

friendly luggage
  • friendly luggage

    Catch a ride!

  • Members
  • Joined: 19 May 2011
  • United-Kingdom

#24

Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:41 PM

Well legal or not, there isn't enough room. I don't think the UK is in decline but it could improve a lot by sorting out rundown areas. I don't know how that could be achieved though, there was a new council house development a mile away from me and that became rough after only a few years.

CheesyJ
  • CheesyJ

    Mack Pimp

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Jul 2011

#25

Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:12 PM

I think it's true when people say that Britain has been in decline for a long time, probably since the last century. The Victorian era is long gone, and whatever way you look at it, Britain's not a world superpower like it used to be.

I'm no genius on politics, and it's not something I can claim to have a massive interest in, but from my observations, we've just not got anyone out there who really knows what they're doing and is willing to take risks to save the country. All of the politicians can talk to save the country, but there's no substance there. The country needs someone who can get things done, instead of someone who says they can get things done.

Rown
  • Rown

    weltvolkzeit

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 09 Feb 2005
  • None

#26

Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:35 PM

It's interesting to read the opinions here as they sound like they could be coming from somewhere in the states. All we're known for anymore is blowing sh*t up. There seems to be a trend of malaise across the anglo world and I'd imagine further still. With supremacists and ultra-nationalists popping up from Bristol to Moscow, and Montana to Baghdad cultural insecurity is rampant. On a societal level people seem to be upset with their circumstances, frustrated by a lack of fulfillment in life.
Hopefully this tunnel has an exit nearby. Too dark and dreary otherwise.

Rown rampage_ani.gif

vinnygorgeous
  • vinnygorgeous

    "Crash JP Morgan buy silver"

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Apr 2009

#27

Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:39)
The government gives people so much liberty that the common man now stands on his soapbox questioning the need for that government. Questioning the very people who safeguard his freedom.
People want more accountability, they want more control, more, more, more. And why? Because they honestly feel entitled to have a real say in the political process. Like a greedy, spoiled child they cry for things they have not earned.


People paid a very heavy price for political participation, are you saying that every generation should have to pay the price in blood all over again just so they donít become complacent?

KilnerLUFC
  • KilnerLUFC

    M.O.T

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2011

#28

Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 23:53)
QUOTE (Irviding @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 01:13)
Exactly - instead of living in the present and recognizing that your country could exercise strong influence over the world, it seems to be in the past notion that they own the world still.

I live in the United Kingdom, in the heart of the recession, constant flux of illegal immigrants and rife crime.

We might as well abandon ship now. While we still have the chance, this country is f*cked.

To me, it sounds like you live in the world of media, rather than in the heart of the UK. Immigration is a problem, but mainly due to the size of this country, rather than anything else. The major problem is, as I brought up in my last topic, is that no Government dare speaks out about immigration due to fear.

I've lived in plenty of areas that have now become 'Ghost Towns'; High Streets empty and boarded up, full streets boarded up and nothing being done to help the situation. The main problem is, no-one has the money to spend on doing these areas up anymore, and this is speaking from personal experience.

The rest of Europe has seen recession, and it's not long before it starts happening here.

One of the major situations in this country is that we are failing the youth, and instead of trying to help this generation, we sit back and blame them for everything that goes wrong in this country. There were 2 major divides when the Riots happened last year; some people blamed it on some idiots who just wanted to rampage and make some money, whereas others see it as this 'Forgotten Generation' fed up of being ignored and pushed under the carpet. Kids have no guidance in their life, and once we leave school, it's upto us on our own. I think in my whole time at school, I had one career guidance lesson... Not all young people are idiots, and some see the sorry state of politics that run this country, where people we are meant to trust with the running of this country are swindling money and spending it on whatever they want, and covering every major problem up with something else.

When I was growing up, kids had everything to give them a good upbringing. Now we live in a bubble-wrapped nation, so over-run by Health & Safety and PC.

We need a Government who are realists, and start reaching out to all these Forgotten people.


Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#29

Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:44 PM Edited by Typhus, 16 April 2012 - 07:04 PM.

QUOTE (vinnygorgeous @ Tuesday, Feb 28 2012, 20:58)
QUOTE (Typhus @ Thursday, Dec 29 2011, 21:39)
The government gives people so much liberty that the common man now stands on his soapbox questioning the need for that government. Questioning the very people who safeguard his freedom.
People want more accountability, they want more control, more, more, more. And why? Because they honestly feel entitled to have a real say in the political process. Like a greedy, spoiled child they cry for things they have not earned.


People paid a very heavy price for political participation, are you saying that every generation should have to pay the price in blood all over again just so they donít become complacent?

You're right, many years ago our people fought and clawed for every bit of freedom we now enjoy. They attained that freedom through dedication, sound reasoning and obstinance. And now look at us. Look at what we've become, look how apathetic the working classes have become. The working classes who confine their political discourse to slurs against immigrants.

You ask me if we need to pay in blood to avoid becoming complacent. No, we should not kill each other, we're not barbarians after all. But freedom can only be maintained through constant struggle, constant conflict.
Look how many people disagree with immigration, yet these people have no voice, they are painted as Nazis and crackpots.
The vast majority who disagree with immigration have NO say in it. The vast majority of people who disagree with the lax treatment of criminals have NO say in it.
And who's to blame? The government? Or maybe, just maybe, it's the people themselves. Maybe they deserve to be ignored for their apathy and willing toleration of corruption and deceit.

I don't agree with the anti-immigration nonsense, but I honestly believe the majority of working class Britons have a real issue with it. And if they can't even be bothered to do anything to make themselves heard, they deserve to be exploited and betrayed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as they have their pornography and football, they couldn't give a sh*t if we were attacked by Martians. I have nothing but contempt for them. I only wish I could march them off a cliff like the pathetic lemmings they are and watch them smash onto the rocks below, one by one.

John The Grudge
  • John The Grudge

    Soldier

  • Members
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2009

#30

Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:58 AM Edited by John The Grudge, 17 April 2012 - 08:23 AM.

I'm not bothered about us leading the world in anything. I just want there to be jobs for everybody and everybody to want a job. Fair wages and the ability for people on the lowest wages to live comfortably. Nobody should feel like anybody is getting a free meal ticket.

If we can sort those things then I'll be satisfied. I have little faith though. I will say that I have more faith in the Conservatives/Lib Dems than I ever will in Labour. I believe that the government, with the latest budget, has taken steps that could lead to there being many more jobs available in the UK.

I agree with what Typhus said. Give them their football and they couldn't give a sh*t what happens to this country. However if tabloids like the Daily Star or The Sun started to responsibly report the news and offer unbiased reports on politics then the people would take an interest.

They need to care about the world beyond their front door. A look at British tabloids and it's disturbing the poison that people are being fed. It's all hate and lies and it's the lense through which many people see the world. These people are voting and as such politicians adjust their policies to win their votes.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users