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2013 Subaru BRZ/Toyota FT-86/Scion FR-S

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Kevin...
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#31

Posted 15 December 2011 - 07:55 AM

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 17:52)
QUOTE (κενιη @ Tuesday, Dec 13 2011, 12:21)
QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Sunday, Dec 11 2011, 02:08)
The world has enough C/D class sports cars. I thought this car was going to be a Z/STI/EVO competitor, now I see it is just another Genesis Coupe/TC/RSX/Cobalt SS

I see some major faults in your car categories. I never saw the Z as an EVO or STI competitor. Yes, in video games it works wonderfully but at the end of the day we are comparing 4 door, 5 seater sedans (or wagon) against a front engined, RWD, NAV6 car. Its kind of like comparing the E63 AMG against the Viper. Sure, you got right around the same HP ratings but two totally different demographics. Whether you like to admit or acknowledge this or not, people buying an EVO or an STI have their reasons for wanting a 4 door, 5 seater sports car. Its not like they run in and say, "Well, this 370Z performs better/worse than those other two...so I am gonna get that." I can guarantee you that, 95 times out of 100, the guys shopping for EVOs or STIs are doing so because they want a sports car that can be used as a regular car. The Z just can't do that in this world with family loads of groceries, kids and baby seats, and stuff like more than one friend. A better car to throw in there is the Caliber and Neon SRT-4s. Maybe if the Silvia/240SX was still around, that would be a good car to throw in there...as well as the Miata.
On the same note, I never saw the Genesis as a tC/Cobalt SS/RSX level. It, again, is a front engined, RWD coupe. The only thing it has on the Z is the fact that its got a few small rear seats. Sure, you get roughly the same seating room in back as a Cobalt SS Coupe, RSX, or tC but at the end of the, the main competitors for it are the V6 (V8 maybe) Mustang, the V6 (maybe V8) Camaro, or the V6 (maybe V8) Challenger.

That being said, its going into the latter category with the Genesis Coupe, Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger.

So because people buy them for different reasons, they don't compete? You're missing the point entirely. If this car were an STI/EVO/Z competitor then instead of a four door or two seater to choose from, they'd have another coupe in the mix.

Also, because I'm confused by your logic, if an STI pulls up behind an M3 on a straightaway and fails to overtake, does he then after the race tell the M3 driver that he bought his car for different reasons therefore they were never competing?

BTW this doesn't just happen in video games, car manufacturers don't design their cars to beat final bosses in need for speed.

That is a cute analogy but you are forgetting something major here. I am not comparing cars based on raw performance numbers. That is great when you are looking at a used car market 5 years post production but this is the real world of new cars and your average buyers who are purchasing the cars off of the lot. Those buyers are the ones that count. A M3 buyer is buying an M3 because he wants a luxury sports coupe/sedan. A person doing so is not thinking, "Well, if I don't get the M3 I am gonna get an STI instead." because of the performance figures. He is going to look to Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura. Here in the real world, the vast majority of people buy based on more things than performance figures.

If buyers limited their selection to basic performance figures we could compare an E63 AMG to some random f*ckers 5 year old super-tuned EVO or STI then talk sh*t on the E63 owner for spending 3 times as much money as the Evo or STI owner. But back here in reality, people take consideration of stupid things like brand prestige or luxury as well as common things like price, seating, number of doors, or size of the trunk.

Cars are not judged in the real world like they are in Forza with performance based classes. Just because something performs like something else doesn't mean they are in the same class or the same kind of buyers are going to purchase them. Sure, an obvious alternative to an STI is an EVO but buyers of those cars are not also looking at M5s or CTS-Vs. Here in the real world, people buy more 4-5 seating sports coupes than they do 2 seating sports coupes for a reason...they are more f*cking practical. Also, people who are willing to spend 25+ grand in a car are usually looking at cars costing the same price. They don't just say "well I like x car but since Y car is 10 grand more expensive/cheaper and seats two less people, I might buy that. Guys buying EVOs or STIs usually do so because they want a sports car but still want the ability to transport more than one other person. I would want one over something like an S2000 or Z because I have kids and a wife...similar to other people out there in that odd place called the real world. If we didn't have this problem of wanting a sports car but maintaining practicality, we would all be driving sports couples. And thats not even taking into account sh*t like the weather around the world making more people want to own cars more suited to their environment.

And its not like this is something new. People buy trucks instead of cars usually because they have to tow sh*t, carry more than you can in the trunk of a car, or other fun things trucks do that cars don't. Its the same basic principle. Yes, the BRZ/GT86 can be classed with cars like the Miata when you look at the numbers...but thats not all that matters and I think that is what you are missing. This will pull sales away from the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger owners of the world because it has the things those cars have...like trunk space, 4 seats, and more room. You know, things that people look at when searching for a new car.

Tuff Luv Capo
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#32

Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:31 AM Edited by Tuff Luv Capo, 15 December 2011 - 12:07 PM.

QUOTE (κενιη @ Thursday, Dec 15 2011, 02:55)
  Just because something performs like something else doesn't mean they are in the same class or the same kind of buyers are going to purchase them


I don't have the time you have to put into this argument, let's just say you're right and I'm wrong. Sales are what matters.

Kevin...
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#33

Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Thursday, Dec 15 2011, 04:31)
QUOTE (κενιη @ Thursday, Dec 15 2011, 02:55)
  Just because something performs like something else doesn't mean they are in the same class or the same kind of buyers are going to purchase them


I don't have the time you have to put into this argument, let's just say you're right and I'm wrong. Sales are what matters.

Its what takes sales away from another that matter. I mean even if you are going to be sarcastic and piss on the discussion, do it correctly. Is it that hard to realize that car manufactures take into account more things than basic performance figures when they produce and sell a car? Do you honestly want me to believe you when you say "Oh well an STI and an M3 are roughly the same in performance figures so they sell to the same type of people looking for the same kind of car." That is bullsh*t. I am just telling you that there are many, many more factors going into the basic concept of producing and selling vehicles for a manufacture as well as reasons for buying a car when it comes to the consumer.

I get it, you have owned all those awesome cars like your Zs and your SRT-4 but you are not the average buyer. The average buyer of those kinds of cars do tend to have more sh*t to do with their vehicles than buzz around town acting like the hot sh*t in their car, raching other guys from stoplights because you like to see how many 90s mustangs you can blow away in attempt to make your cock feel better, or go out on random track days. People buy cars as a means of transport as well as a means to transport other people and things. Also, there are different prices of vehicles that really limit what people want to buy. If neither of those were factors, we would all be cool like you and buy some little sports couple...because we know there is never a point in your life where you think "I could use a little more space for my friends/sh*t." I mean damn, I would love to ditch my Legacy Wagon for a Corvette because, you know, thats the logical alternative for a guy like me with a pregnant wife and a 20 month old child.

Tuff Luv Capo
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#34

Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:42 PM Edited by Tuff Luv Capo, 15 December 2011 - 10:01 PM.

QUOTE (κενιη @ Thursday, Dec 15 2011, 11:13)
The average buyer of those kinds of cars do tend to have more sh*t to do with their vehicles than buzz around town acting like the hot sh*t in their car, raching other guys from stoplights because you like to see how many 90s mustangs you can blow away in attempt to make your cock feel better, or go out on random track days. People buy cars as a means of transport as well as a means to transport other people and things.

This is the second time you've assumed someone who owns a nice car doesn't have a daily driver. I have a 4X4 Blazer and my fiance drives an 06 G6 4 door sedan. I make good money and if I want to tool around in my z on the weekends like hot sh*t I f*cking deserve too.

Secondly this was never a discussion, you misunderstood what I said and for christ's sake you bring up an M3 as if it has anything to do with what I said. an M3 is like a 50k+ car, I was talking more about the affordable Japanese market I just used an M3 as an exaggerated example which you STILL related to sales.

I tried to let you down easy the last post but its obvious you're not trying to convince me you're right. You're trying to convince yourself. You might as well drop it because you're never going to hear me say "You're right people who buy two seaters don't make any sense lol kids responsibility derp".

I not only have the responsibility to keep two practical vehicles maintained, but I can manage a third sports car as well. Where did all of your priorities go? Do you REALLY think that NO ONE who owns a sports car has kids?

Get over yourself. I'm not the "arrogant douche in a Z", I'm not "the 1%", I'm not a jackoff, I work 7 days a week sometime so I can have a nice life and be prepared for both the sh*tty times and the good times. I come on here to try and banter about cars but you have so much built up freakin' insecurity and disappointment in your life that suddenly I'm the one who needs help.

Kevin...
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#35

Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Thursday, Dec 15 2011, 16:42)
I tried to let you down easy the last post but its obvious you're not trying to convince me you're right. You're trying to convince yourself. You might as well drop it because you're never going to hear me say "You're right people who buy two seaters don't make any sense lol kids responsibility derp".

No, you are totally missing the point. I am saying this car is competing with a different market from a car like the Miata because it is a 4 seater and it won't compete directly with a model of car like the Civic, Miata, Cobalt, ect because it falls at a price point 5 grand higher...and thats not mentioning the fact that the Cobalt SS is no longer produced and hasn't been replaced with a Cruze SS. But no, I was wrong for pointing out your video game mentality when it comes to comparing cars to one another. Its not just about size and power. There are a vast number of other factors that go into what sells volumes or what competes with what.

But no, you are right, your infinite knowledge of the automotive world trumps mine. My basic perception of the new BRZ/FR-S being a compeditor to the Challenger, Camaro, and Mustang is wrong...but what are you going to say when they treat this car like they do the Genesis Coupe on release? What happens when this car is going up against cars like the Camaro instead of a Civic? I am no rocket scientist but because it is a two door, 4 seater, front engine, RWD, sports coupe. But again, I must be wrong because its one of those budget sports cars like the Miata, Civic SI, or RSX...except for the fact that its going to base price at 25g. Yeah, I am real f*cking stupid.

Oh and by the way, my life is fine but thanks for your concern. To be honest, being married, having a kid and another on the way, and working for the government has left me with little insecurities. My wife likes my dick, my swimmers still work, amd I still manage to find some happiness outside of the house working on different projects or sports despite being a injured military vet. My life is really lacking. Maybe if you drive on over to Pittsburgh maybe you could see how rough I have it lol.

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#36

Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:53 AM

Can't wait to drive this. Hopefully we'll get one for the showroom at work.

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#37

Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:41 PM

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Wednesday, Dec 14 2011, 05:57)
QUOTE (Warlord. @ Wednesday, Dec 14 2011, 00:54)
Uh, no.

user posted image

Don't be a retard.

God that infiniti is gorgeous

It's like a Rising Sun Quattroporte.

Want.

Tuff Luv Capo
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#38

Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:11 AM Edited by Tuff Luv Capo, 22 December 2011 - 07:31 AM.

I read an article on the Toyota GT 86 today and as I suspected it is just another genesis rsx cobalt tc however the Subaru version is supposed to have an STI capable copy that puts out 300hp. A baby G37 like the Genesis v6. Not bad.


EDIT: I realize I'm being harsh, in reality the fact that more RWD sports coupes are being made is a sign that the economy is on a turn-a-round and this generation should see some more company rivalry like the 90's which brought us AMAZING cars.

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#39

Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:47 AM

The fact that Toyota is finally making something that isn't totally boring that doesn't cost 400 grand is pretty awesome.

Kevin...
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#40

Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (Tuff Luv Capo @ Thursday, Dec 22 2011, 02:11)
EDIT: I realize I'm being harsh, in reality the fact that more RWD sports coupes are being made is a sign that the economy is on a turn-a-round and this generation should see some more company rivalry like the 90's which brought us AMAZING cars.

All bitching aside, you are right. Also, its a good sign that Americans, as well as others, are finally steering away from the idea of FWD/AWD being the "safe" cars and RWD cars being deathtraps because of rain and snow.

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#41

Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:12 AM

Now thats one ugly motherf*cker.

Would rather drive my old-ass KE70 and have the 20K usd in my pocket.
A lot better looking and interesting.

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#42

Posted 29 January 2012 - 04:02 AM

Many people aren't happy that the FT86 is badged under Scion. If the car is out this year, I'd probably get it in 2014 because I know there will be mistakes. Not happening though, saving my money for a Evo IX.

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#43

Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

The AE86 looks so much nicer.

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#44

Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:31 AM Edited by Lurch, 30 May 2012 - 12:34 AM.

These things are finally hitting the showrooms and on sale around here.

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user posted image


They had a promotional subaru model touring the showrooms a few months back but it wasn't for sale.




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