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Why no Mapper?

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DarkoP
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#1

Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:09 AM

well as the title says, sorry if this has been answered before, but can someone just tell me WHY THE HELL , after so many years that GTA IV is out and many great and useful tools have been crreated, WHY still no Mapper like Med for example...

Whats the point of all those tools and stuff if u dont dont have a mapper and cant do what u wanna do???

Frank.s
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#2

Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE (DarkoP @ Wednesday, Nov 30 2011, 03:09)
Whats the point of all those tools and stuff if u dont dont have a mapper and cant do what u wanna do???
There are tools to make IV map mods.
People who want to make a map for GTAIV make it in 3DSMax and use GIMS and OpenIV to export it to the game, google those three things.

DarkoP
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#3

Posted 30 November 2011 - 06:20 PM

yes i know, but they are not as efficient as mappers for San Andreas or vice city... you dont have a good perspective of things.... making a map and importing it to the game without being able to see the whole city with every item instance, is just not ok for me... and for many people i guess.....

correct me im wrong though...

ShakingASS
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#4

Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE (DarkoP @ Wednesday, Nov 30 2011, 18:20)
yes i know, but they are not as efficient as mappers for San Andreas or vice city... you dont have a good perspective of things.... making a map and importing it to the game without being able to see the whole city with every item instance, is just not ok for me... and for many people i guess.....

correct me im wrong though...

to bad learn to use 3d max.

PanosD
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#5

Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:23 PM

learn to use 3d max?? ok , so if i learn 3ds max, will i be able to view the whole city with all the objects instances placed together??

Frank.s
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#6

Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (PanosD @ Wednesday, Nov 30 2011, 23:23)
learn to use 3d max??    ok , so if i learn 3ds max, will i be able to view the whole city with all the objects instances placed together??

Yep, GIMS has a map import function, there are tutorials on youtube for how to import IV map objects into 3dsmax using GIMS+OpenIV.

Chipsman
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#7

Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:32 PM

user posted image

user posted image



Terreur69
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#8

Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE (Chipsman @ Wednesday, Dec 7 2011, 21:32)
user posted image

user posted image

wow ....... , its real ??? is, it does it will be private or public ?? biggrin.gif

PanosD
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#9

Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:43 PM

wow Chipsman what is that??? is it under development?? can u give some more information please instead of just posting a screenshot??? looks promising though... smile.gif

Chipsman
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#10

Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:32 AM Edited by Chipsman, 08 December 2011 - 09:36 AM.

QUOTE (PanosD @ Wednesday, Dec 7 2011, 22:43)
wow Chipsman what is that??? is it under development?? can u give some more information please instead of just posting a screenshot??? looks promising though... smile.gif


QUOTE (terreur69 @ Wednesday, Dec 7 2011, 22:30)
QUOTE (Chipsman @ Wednesday, Dec 7 2011, 21:32)

mapper_old.png

wow ....... , its real ??? is, it does it will be private or public ?? biggrin.gif

Yes.. but unfortunately it WAS almost real about year ago and it is not real now.
This year we have a lot of progress in models researching, and now if we want to have the correct rendering, we need to rewrite it all over again, but this is quite a large amount of work, and I'm not sure what it's worth it.
And as mentioned above, we have GIMS and OpenIV which allow you to make quite successfully mods.

PanosD
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#11

Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:56 AM

ok, but why dont u release what's done so far, even if the rendering is not 100% correct??? Im sure it will help many people including myself.... Please...

Terreur69
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#12

Posted 08 December 2011 - 04:32 PM

@chipsman
is true, but , on mapper would be more practical to place the object as, lampost, chair, table ... , Small thing.

PanosD
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#13

Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE (terreur69 @ Thursday, Dec 8 2011, 16:32)
@chipsman
is true, but , on mapper would be more practical to place the object as, lampost, chair, table ... , Small thing.

yeah that's god damn right!!! i find it really strange why so many people cant realize the most obvious thing: That a mapper is far more practical and efficient than GIMS in terms of mapping....

Chipsman, just release your mapper man, we dont care if its not perfect... it will still get the job done i think...
PLEASE

from the picture it looks 10x times better than that shadow-mapper thing...

Gtaman_92
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#14

Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:01 AM

Because some modders (im not sure if i can even call them that) have hopes of creating ridiculous ideas which is easy to say but harder to do. One example is some guy who wanted to create london but ended up quiting after he became lazy which left his supporters looking like idiots, is rather funny to me.

Chipsman
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#15

Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:39 AM

.. When I said that it was "almost real" about year ago, I exaggerated a bit, because it could only display map parts, without editing and other same things smile.gif
Another problem is the problem with a collision, in game it is placed separately from the models, and when you move the model - the collision remains in the same place where it was before, so we don't know how to organize map editing in right way because of this.

Terreur69
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#16

Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE (Chipsman @ Friday, Dec 9 2011, 12:39)
.. When I said that it was "almost real" about year ago, I exaggerated a bit, because it could only display map parts, without editing and other same things smile.gif
Another problem is the problem with a collision, in game it is placed separately from the models, and when you move the model - the collision remains in the same place where it was before, so we don't know how to organize map editing in right way because of this.

yes , but the object that is a collision wbd smile.gif

hirecrishecom
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#17

Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:06 AM

Yep, GIMS has a map import function, there are tutorials on youtube for how to import IV map objects into 3dsmax using GIMS+OpenIV.

Chipsman
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#18

Posted 10 December 2011 - 02:55 PM

QUOTE (terreur69 @ Friday, Dec 9 2011, 13:30)
yes , but the object that is a collision wbd smile.gif

It's only 5-10% of all objects)
What about the rest?

PanosD
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#19

Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:21 PM

QUOTE (Gtaman_92 @ Friday, Dec 9 2011, 04:01)
Because some modders (im not sure if i can even call them that) have hopes of creating ridiculous ideas which is easy to say but harder to do. One example is some guy who wanted to create london but ended up quiting after he became lazy which left his supporters looking like idiots, is rather funny to me.

sorry, but if i understood what u said correctly, i think your point is stupid... there are some stupid modders out there, yes. so what???

Terreur69
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#20

Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (Chipsman @ Saturday, Dec 10 2011, 16:55)
QUOTE (terreur69 @ Friday, Dec 9 2011, 13:30)
yes , but the object that is a collision wbd  smile.gif

It's only 5-10% of all objects)
What about the rest?

we take care not for these things, GIMS is too good, just for the small object, and will also provide a cartography smile.gif

ShakingASS
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#21

Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:10 AM

If this mapper was put back on track i have faith because 3d max has alot of bugs some things has errors get fed up with 3d max mapping.

ZZCOOL
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#22

Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:09 PM

QUOTE (terreur69 @ Wednesday, Dec 7 2011, 20:30)
QUOTE (Chipsman @ Wednesday, Dec 7 2011, 21:32)
user posted image

user posted image

wow ....... , its real ??? is, it does it will be private or public ?? biggrin.gif

why is everyone impressed by this it looks like stock liberty city to me

Death_Blade
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#23

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:16 AM

I agree with everyone else. We need a REAL mapper. The lack of a map editor is the reason why this game is dead. The modding community for it is dead, and there havent been any really awesome mods made. The only practical thing you can do with GIMS is edit billboards and other small things. In order to do full blown map mods and total conversions, you're gonna need something more powerful and easier to use than that. Most people dont understand GIMS because you pretty much have to be autistic to make it work properly. Its a really jank way of trying to make mods, and at the end of the day, its just a make shift solution to a real problem.

Most people who make mods are not modelers, they're MAPPERS, I can make the mods I want to without making any 3D models myself. I could easily use all the models currently in the game, but in order to do some city mods like I want to, I'm going to need a real map editor. Not some jank aspergers mod for a horribly outdated 3D modeling program. Not to mention, the support for GIMS is horrible. If you run into an error or problem with it, good luck finding someone who actually knows anything about it. Plus the tutorials for it are outdated and hard to understand. Until theres a real map editor, you'll never see any real, good mods for this game. Pretty sad this game got wasted too, since V is coming out.

Frank.s
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#24

Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:51 PM Edited by Frank.s, 02 February 2012 - 08:03 PM.

I agree that GTAIV modding in general is crap compared to what it used to be when III/VC/SA were released, but that isn't just becuase of the lack of a mapper program, that plays a big part in it though: One reason why IV modding is more f*cked is because IV is more complex than older GTA's. Maps need to be created in 3dsmax from scratch because most original IV objects don't work when map-edited (IV's collision format means that a lot of objects are only solid if they are placed in their original location). As more skill is needed to learn the tools and mod IV than was required to mod III/VC/SA, this creates a division between skilled IV modders and people who want to learn to mod IV. The guy who made GIMS is planning to add a "mapper-like system" but that isn't out yet. If you want to learn 3dsmax+IV modding then i can help, hardly anyone else helps around here but that doesn't mean the entire mod scene is dead.
QUOTE
The only practical thing you can do with GIMS is edit billboards and other small things. In order to do full blown map mods and total conversions, you're gonna need something more powerful and easier to use than that.
It can be used to make almost anything, citys, roads, mountains, cliffs, rivers, deserts, racetracks, buildings, stunt parks, etc. the only limit is what the user can make in 3dsmax.
QUOTE
Most people dont understand GIMS because you pretty much have to be autistic to make it work properly. Its a really jank way of trying to make mods, and at the end of the day, its just a make shift solution to a real problem.
GIMS(+OpenIV) allows models made using 3dsmax to be placed in GTAIV and it does that job fine and 3dsmax does the job of making 3d models fine too, just look at all the massive IV map mods and you'll see there are plenty of IV map modders still around.
It seems you don't like them because they aren't as accessible as III/VC/SA mapping tools and that is understandable, the sh*t nowadays isn't like mapping older GTA's.
QUOTE
Not to mention, the support for GIMS is horrible. If you run into an error or problem with it, good luck finding someone who actually knows anything about it. Plus the tutorials for it are outdated and hard to understand. Until theres a real map editor, you'll never see any real, good mods for this game. Pretty sad this game got wasted too, since V is coming out.
GIMS+3dsmax can be used for mapping (using original map objects) too and plenty of people know how to use them however the people who mod nowadays simply cant be arsed to share their knowledge in the form of tutorials and, like you said, any tutorials that are made usually become out of date quickly, that is because the tools are always advancing and changing.

Death_Blade
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#25

Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE (Frank.s @ Thursday, Feb 2 2012, 19:51)
I agree that GTAIV modding in general is crap compared to what it used to be when III/VC/SA were released, but that isn't just becuase of the lack of a mapper program, that plays a big part in it though: One reason why IV modding is more f*cked is because IV is more complex than older GTA's. Maps need to be created in 3dsmax from scratch because most original IV objects don't work when map-edited (IV's collision format means that a lot of objects are only solid if they are placed in their original location). As more skill is needed to learn the tools and mod IV than was required to mod III/VC/SA, this creates a division between skilled IV modders and people who want to learn to mod IV. The guy who made GIMS is planning to add a "mapper-like system" but that isn't out yet. If you want to learn 3dsmax+IV modding then i can help, hardly anyone else helps around here but that doesn't mean the entire mod scene is dead.
QUOTE
The only practical thing you can do with GIMS is edit billboards and other small things. In order to do full blown map mods and total conversions, you're gonna need something more powerful and easier to use than that.
It can be used to make almost anything, citys, roads, mountains, cliffs, rivers, deserts, racetracks, buildings, stunt parks, etc. the only limit is what the user can make in 3dsmax.
QUOTE
Most people dont understand GIMS because you pretty much have to be autistic to make it work properly. Its a really jank way of trying to make mods, and at the end of the day, its just a make shift solution to a real problem.
GIMS(+OpenIV) allows models made using 3dsmax to be placed in GTAIV and it does that job fine and 3dsmax does the job of making 3d models fine too, just look at all the massive IV map mods and you'll see there are plenty of IV map modders still around.
It seems you don't like them because they aren't as accessible as III/VC/SA mapping tools and that is understandable, the sh*t nowadays isn't like mapping older GTA's.
QUOTE
Not to mention, the support for GIMS is horrible. If you run into an error or problem with it, good luck finding someone who actually knows anything about it. Plus the tutorials for it are outdated and hard to understand. Until theres a real map editor, you'll never see any real, good mods for this game. Pretty sad this game got wasted too, since V is coming out.
GIMS+3dsmax can be used for mapping (using original map objects) too and plenty of people know how to use them however the people who mod nowadays simply cant be arsed to share their knowledge in the form of tutorials and, like you said, any tutorials that are made usually become out of date quickly, that is because the tools are always advancing and changing.

The only map mods Ive seen so far are small things, like one or two buildings here and there, or some basic race tracks on an island outside of the main land. Theres no real map mods like there were in 3/VC/SA like whole new cities and the like. I do know what you mean though, IV is more complex. Its a shame though, because thats probably deterred a lot of people from working on tools for it. If theres more tutorials for 3DS max and the like out there, I might look into it again. Like I said though, most of the map mods I want to make, ill end up using models that are already there. I probably wont need/want to create my own, which is why I tihnk a map editor would be much easier and practical for people like me. Especially if you dont have many 3D modeling skills, which I, and many others, dont.

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#26

Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE (Death_Blade @ Thursday, Feb 2 2012, 23:43)
The only map mods Ive seen so far are small things, like one or two buildings here and there, or some basic race tracks on an island outside of the main land. Theres no real map mods like there were in 3/VC/SA like whole new cities and the like. I do know what you mean though, IV is more complex. Its a shame though, because thats probably deterred a lot of people from working on tools for it. If theres more tutorials for 3DS max and the like out there, I might look into it again. Like I said though, most of the map mods I want to make, ill end up using models that are already there. I probably wont need/want to create my own, which is why I tihnk a map editor would be much easier and practical for people like me. Especially if you dont have many 3D modeling skills, which I, and many others, dont.

Your wrong look harder.

Death_Blade
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#27

Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:22 AM

QUOTE (ShakingASS @ Friday, Feb 3 2012, 23:29)
QUOTE (Death_Blade @ Thursday, Feb 2 2012, 23:43)
The only map mods Ive seen so far are small things, like one or two buildings here and there, or some basic race tracks on an island outside of the main land.  Theres no real map mods like there were in 3/VC/SA like whole new cities and the like.  I do know what you mean though, IV is more complex.  Its a shame though, because thats probably deterred a lot of people from working on tools for it.  If theres more tutorials for 3DS max and the like out there, I might look into it again.  Like I said though, most of the map mods I want to make, ill end up using models that are already there.  I probably wont need/want to create my own, which is why I tihnk a map editor would be much easier and practical for people like me.  Especially if you dont have many 3D modeling skills, which I, and many others, dont.

Your wrong look harder.

No, im not wrong. Theres no real map mods for this game. Theres converted maps like SA and VC, but real, new maps and such, dont exist.

PanosD
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#28

Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

QUOTE
(IV's collision format means that a lot of objects are only solid if they are placed in their original location)


ok, so why there isnt a program so that if we move an object instance on the map , the collision object automatically be moved to the new correct place?? is it so hard?

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#29

Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:49 PM

PanosD, It is not as simple as you would think my dear friend, I have been in the Game Industry for 5 years now and for us to code something like that it could take weeks or even months, We would have to learn GTA code and try integrate it in 3ds max or what ever modelling software we use, Ive just started to mod for GTA 4 since its something new to try and it would be fun. But also GTA 4 modding is not as big as others out there, I just stumbled apon this a week ago.

Vintage88
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#30

Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:01 AM Edited by Vintage88, 19 April 2012 - 08:12 AM.

The same reason we don't have proper mapping tools is the same reason we don't have DYOM missions, fun servers like MTA and SAMP have, etc etc. The modding community in IV is atrocious by comparison to older R* games and games like Skyrim. You don't get the notion that most are looking at the "big picture". People are barely working together. I'm not complaining, I contribute nothing, who am I to bitch?

But the truth is the truth... this game has soooo much modding potential yet all we get are a bunch of maps to race around, car models from other games, and funny scripts like burning pedestrians when you aim at them. It's cool and all but as a creative person I can't ignore how much more could be done with this game if the modding community thought a little more intuitively. We can't rely on the dude who made GIMS to go out and create even better tools, it's a community effort which means others on the side-lines that can step up need to step up.

Now I do give kudos to the IV:SA team who are on the verge of adding tremendous longevity to the game with their conversion mod. icon14.gif
And G9 has done a great job with LCPD:FR too, however fall into the category of exclusiveness, in that they don't seem too open to sharing their code with other modders.




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