Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

[WIP|REL] GTA III hiLOD

54 replies to this topic
cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#1

Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:23 AM Edited by cjd2425, 13 November 2011 - 08:33 PM.

Goal: have as little object and texture pop-in & out as possible while getting the most possible detail.

Limitations: explained below.


This changes most of the Low poly buildings and map objects for their more detailed counterparts. The game seems to triple render stuff most of the time the 3rd LOD is likely for very far away detail as draw distance is calculated from the center of the object and not the bounding box.

Triple Rendering (same building, rendered 3 times in 3 different levels of detail):

user posted image user posted image

Other common examples: http://imageshack.us...refighting.png/

The extra detail causes stutter, a framerate spike, the first time you rotate the camera around, not always strangely, likely caused by texture streaming, I tried to pack everything into a single TXD in order to have less textures, there are currently about 155, I reduced that to around 20 but the stutter still happens, it would be easier if the game were forced to load all textures, but I don't think that's possible. The game seems to cull some of them on checkpoints (death) or while on pause.

Original at the left, modded at the right:

user posted image user posted image
user posted image user posted image - user posted image user posted image

More Screenshots: http://imageshack.us/g/849/1new.png/

Copy and Paste version, unzip and copy over GTA III directory

DOWNLOAD: http://www.mediafire...w4wkee1fiykvddv

Installer version, for mods mainly (requires GTA Mod Installer not included, may be against the rules):

DOWNLOAD: http://www.mediafire...vg4lqenc8pjhjmx

Unzip, Run GTA Mod installer, and select "install mod with script file" then "I want to select a folder with script file", select GTA3IMG. Then Copy and Paste the "data" folder into GTA III directory.


The one mentioned above with less TXDs (only for Tests): http://www.mediafire...732wd1vkc8drll1

Same instructions as above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TO DO (maybe):

- Vehicles / Cars LODs:

The importer/exporter causes alpha issues for me everywhere, which can't seem to be fixed by hierarchy ordering. If someone has a safe method of converting or editing a *.dff back and forth into the game safely it would be a lot of help.

If anyone has any info on this it would be greatly appreciated, I know alpha textures are problematic in this game.

- Ease / Double Rendering:

Preventing double rendering works, *.cols seem to be ever present, problem is the Top-down camera ignores anything LOD related (would there be any fix for this, or hack ?). This camera also makes peds not spawn while on car, they only spawn while on foot, so it has special propierties (wonder if there is a place to edit them, it could be the exe though). Is funny because VC shouldn't present this problem as it doesn't have that camera (maybe SA too).

While that's not possible values can still be brought back to their default values, even more they could be lessened to a point where the top-down camera always renders detail, and be likely less than default value (would need to know the view range when at max speed on zoom-out, plus the building center radius).

- Merge non-LOD to Match LOD stuff:

Buildings mainly, IPLs for the new object could be a problem, but this is the safest solution, *.col might be very compatible, though not always. I saw Kam's scripts have some sort of IPL functionality so, but not really planning to do this.

- Some of the important objects that don't exist as LOD are the airport planes, the observatory, the rail tracks.

- Remove islands splash screen or the island loading, tried with no success (I could go into detail).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISSUES:

- Stutter (framerate spike): explained above, also stated on the wiki:

QUOTE
Images:

Images are collections of different files for GTA. Since the models and textures get streamed to reduce the memory the game allocates they need to be loaded every time they are shown and not yet inside the memory. Files are combined to archives to reduce the amount of processor and hard-drive time that comes with opening a file.


- There seems to be culling present, on indust SW/SE (such as chtwn_fmrkt), which might cause buildings mainly to dissapear for a brief second, depending on the camera position, also brifly noticeable when scoping out the sniper sight, doesn't seems to happen in the original game (though it could be the IslandLODs). Using the default generic.ide might fix the issues, as there are many dynamic objects in that some (pylons/lightposts).

- Same issue as above: Cranes dissapear (cranetopa/cranetopb) near the intro on the bridge, both are considered LOD objects because both exceed 300m in Draw Distance (by default 750m), they don't have a Normal LOD counterpart and hence only exist on LOD world, even though they have no "LOD" in their names. Since the cranes have no collision but have movement it may not be possible to have another a LOD/non-LOD model as otherwise it would teleport from rotation axis.

- The building flickering happens with a very few other specific buildings. It isn't random (which means a fix should be workable).

- The green construction build presents Double Rendering, which affects the alpha in the texture multiplying its oppacity, the green becomes almost solid.

- A few LOD & non-LOD buildings have unmapped ceilings, as well as some backyard, I am guessing they have holes, this may be easily fixable or not, depens entirely on if I do the LOD merging (I didn't see any hole while driving but I guess they should be there).

- Missing Water patches over the map limit, those are on the original game (maybe fixable by editing the water.dat ?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES:

- All of the remaining flickering (pop-in & out when you move the camera) seems to be from objects that only exist on 1 plane and not the other (usually the Long LOD), this includes mainly individual trees (as seen on the casino), sea rocks (part of overview they have no LOD counterpart), the crane (wonder how to fix this one), billboards, and the rest. Roads have, though faraway roads are painful to look at.

Limitations (to match Normal LOD to Long/Low Poly LOD detail):

- Object Count (On Screen object numbers)

Maybe : LOD world can't have dynamic objects (stoplight, firehydrants, lightposts, etc.), any objects that can be moved from their place, meaning they have to have collision (*.col), this includes items with subobjects that swap when collided (such as the stoplights), exception to this is item with movements but no collision, such as the Dock Crane on the Industrial sector, it only exists in the long LOD world, this is likely because if both objects exist they may be at different degree of rotation, making it pop-in and out in direction when the LOD changes. Individual Trees can't be moved from place but have swaying, this may be the same as the crane, but it should be barely noticeable at 299m., furthermore is better than no tree at all popping out of thin air. This is likely why the vertical lift bridge only moves when you're closing by and never from far away.

Dynamic objects could be added by using subobjects, not too diferent to LODs, either by hierarchy fixing or by a dummy, only the parent object has a 299 limit for *.col, however the subobjects don't which along with hierarchy and IDE object Count, could be replaced with a non-rendered dummy (is double rendering again), however the game Object Count is not going to be happy of having all objects at once in the world. Anyways is worth a shot to check if this would be possible.

I am worried about empty *.col entries since they seem to store bounding boxes dimensions, and some models had different sizes over LODs & non-LODs counterparts, I'll prefer to leave this untouched for now

So in theory, most objects with collisions could be just used as dummy models, and then ingame only render LODs in full detail, though again the top-down camera would brake (may be possible for VC).

-----------------------------------------------

Stuttering happens mostly when the framerate is not limited, which causes the CPU (and GPU I guess) to be at 99% usage percent, then there is more that likely to be framerate spikes. I tested using a pentium E2140 1.6 ghz and a underpowered geforce 8600gt, there are nowaday computers many times faster than this, so any testing and feedback with specs is greatly appreciated.

-----------------------------------------------

Thanks to: rmws. for the *.ide light fixes.

BLlTZ
  • BLlTZ

    Typical behaviour for someone with your condition.

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Apr 2008
  • None
  • Best Texture/Model 2013 "SRt3 2012 Mipmap Edition"

#2

Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:39 PM

Speechless panic.gif

So let me understand if you wish to give the short version. How did you manage to make them work ? I mean did you used Map Editor. You include object in object, dublicate them ?

This is very interesting, top quality improvement in gta series. I wonder what I can do with SA.

Congrats. icon14.gif

ikt
  • ikt

    *poof*

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Oct 2006
  • None

#3

Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:03 PM

Amazing how the look of the game improves with this mod! [Like (y)]. Even with the bugs, it's great. Maybe this mod makes me want to complete GTA III once, I never did.

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#4

Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:49 PM Edited by cjd2425, 08 November 2011 - 07:14 AM.

QUOTE (-BLITZ- @ Monday, Nov 7 2011, 12:39)
Speechless  panic.gif

So let me understand if you wish to give the short version. How did you manage to make them work ? I mean did you used Map Editor. You include object in object, dublicate them ?

This is very interesting, top quality improvement in gta series. I wonder what I can do with SA.

Congrats.  icon14.gif


I think this would be a easier to do for VC, than SA, neither have the top-down camera, so that's an adventage, but SA may have too many objects, also since the map is bigger I am not sure if 3000 of draw distance would cover the entire map area.

I was supposed to explain that but the first post would be even longer. Basically first take a look at the *.IDEs, search and copy for anything with the word "LOD", paste then in a document, make them apart by section (IDE name), then use two instances MEd and go to "Scene" and render that section in "Normal Distance" detail and the other in "Long Distance (LOD)" detail, then swap and go entry by entry take notations of which entries are swap compatible (no holes/no merging with other models). Some IDEs don't appear on "Scene", because they are common objects used in multiple places, you'll have to search on the IPLs, if one object is compatible (space matches) then all are.

Once you are sure you can swap an object, you'll have to extract that object, and rename it to the LOD counterpart, usually the first three letters are replaced by "LOD", then go to IDE and copy the texture name (the second name) of the Normal object over the LOD object entry (most LODs use "comlod" textures), then you'll have to go to the IPL, and copy the normal (non-LOD) object numeric values, into the LOD counterpart replaced, most LODs are placed in the same position but some are way far different, if you don't do this items will be outplaced and when you get near a building it will jump position.

Documents and info on replacing: http://www.mediafire...6qogvmdcm96ik7v

If anyone want to improve over this, this serves as reference guide, all the MERGED LOD are specified here (Blank entries mean MERGED as well), none of those are changed by this mod, as it requires model importing/exporting for merging and cordinate stuff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It would also be possible to drastically reduce the number of onscreen objects by joining all the roads by island, that is only for roads LODs which use the same texture name, otherwise again this would brake any mod that takes adventage of texture variety. The placement could be a pain, I am not sure about this as well.

QUOTE (ikt @ Monday, Nov 7 2011, 13:03)
Amazing how the look of the game improves with this mod! [Like (y)]. Even with the bugs, it's great. Maybe this mod makes me want to complete GTA III once, I never did.


I also didn't complete this game, I barely played the first mission. The streaming stutter might not be because of the many TXDs (155), but because those files have more than 1000 textures. If you rotate the camera very slowly you'll notice the FPS go down little by little, like by -5 fps decrement and then stabilize and go up as fast, when you rotate too fast this accumulates and makes the game's framerate spike, this is why I asked about other PCs. Joining TXDs is also a bad idea because it would disable texture variety for the mods that make use of this.

The game is still double rendering buildings and stuff at 299m around your character, my fault here, this should be toned down by re-editing the IDE files.

The dissapearing buildings is somehow related to this, which happens in the original game, is like some sort of occlusion culling, it could be because the car dealer area has already too many objects in the default game:

user posted image

The middle tunnel section gets culled or dissapear when your character backs away, even though that section is entirely viewable from the other side and at even more distance.

I saw this almost when the game was released, and I see it now and still have no idea why it happens.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone with the fast rotation stuttering try this file, unzip, copy/paste and overwrite into GTA III directory:

http://www.mediafire...jix94i5fjiaw555

It's more than likely to break something, either the main.scm, the radio zone, the weather zone, or the zone pop-up (though that seemed to be there).

Basically this is what happens when the map.zon is not loaded:

user posted image

The world doesn't load any LOD textures even when in view, so maybe the opposite could be true, if you're in "X" zone the world preloads all the LOD textures and maintain them as long as you don't get outside the zone. However using the same bounding boxes for all zones seems to break the main.scm, this is likely because the game gets confused in which ID you're currently in.

I'll move this later into another post.

lalalala93
  • lalalala93

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 May 2011

#5

Posted 08 November 2011 - 05:05 AM Edited by lalalala93, 08 November 2011 - 07:01 AM.

wow this really amazing, i've always wanted to do this to gta3 and the thing is ive never been bothered, im glad you have made this. Even though this makes the lod trees white in the xbox mod it can easily be fixed.


cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#6

Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:00 AM Edited by cjd2425, 08 November 2011 - 07:15 AM.

That's because it requires the same treatment for any model (any *.dff) that has been replaced by the mod to be extracted from the non-LOD model, and then renamed to the LOD one; in case of trees search for anything named "patch" or "tree", in the doc guide I posted above they're almost always at the end of the sectors in groups.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It does look merging works easily depending on the model, I forgot to mention you can only merge models that share the same texture, roads and buildings might not be compatible, but roads should be merged all together anyway, placement works easily if using the default filling (model replaced is LODiceballhall = policeballhall + ind_land106):

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

Long LOD (Default) <-> Normal (Full-LOD) <-> Long LOD (mod)

So many stuff missing, still the industSW sector was the most incompatible for replacing, all the missing stuff (trees/railtracks) would need to be added with IPL entries, which ideally would be speared from saving detail by having a better merging (but like I said placement could be a problem). Not due to a limit in the number of IPL entries, but due to the amount of on-screen objects.

The problem is, new LODs would need require new empty *.col entries, and that would break mods which already replace those files.

lalalala93
  • lalalala93

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 May 2011

#7

Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:02 AM Edited by lalalala93, 08 November 2011 - 07:07 AM.

took me like 20 minutes, i should have said earlier i did fix the trees just after making that post and also with the performance part i have to say i have basically no performance hit, i only get it by just loading the game.
also if you want to know my pc specs, they are
4gb ram
512mb graphics Ati radeon hd 4500 series
2.3ghz intel pentium dual core t4500

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#8

Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:16 PM Edited by cjd2425, 08 November 2011 - 11:18 PM.

Thanks for reporting, hopefully the framerate spike is not a problem on newer hardware.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems the game has a feature to preload certain common textures on default.dat:

CODE
default.dat

# texture dictionaries
TEXDICTION MODELS\MISC.TXD
TEXDICTION MODELS\GENERIC.TXD


I tried a variety of methods in order to load a map texture outside of gta3.img but it didn't work, maybe the size is limited 64x64 or some other limit.

I see this .dat also has the Splash screen text which appears when moving from island to island, it likely complements with gta3.dat which uses almost the same text format.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Changing this on gta3.dat removes the splash screen when changing islands, but:

CODE
#collision data
COLFILE 0 MODELS\COLL\GENERIC.COL

COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\INDUSTNE\INDUSTNE.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\INDUSTNW\INDUSTNW.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\INDUSTSE\INDUSTSE.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\INDUSTSW\INDUSTSW.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\MAKING\MAKING.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\TEMPPART\TEMPPART.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\INDROADS\INDROADS.col

COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\COMNtop\COMNtop.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\COMNbtm\COMNbtm.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\COMSE\COMSE.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\COMSW\COMSW.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\COMROAD\COMROAD.col

COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\LANDne\LANDne.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\LANDsw\LANDsw.col
COLFILE 0 DATA\MAPS\SUBROADS\SUBROADS.col


It breaks spawning for both cars, peds (and I guess weapons icons) when you travel from a island to another, where the splash screen should be, it work on the island you load or start the game (so it can be any of the three).

I am sure all Collisions load because the floor is still solid, you don't pass through any object. The spawning happens but both cars and peds get culled immediately, they flicker briefly in-and-out.

Maybe is related to the *.ide section after TOBJ which has peds and cars paths, but I don't really understand why they get culled away, everything seems to be loaded, maybe there is a limit in something, something not being loaded seems unlikely as this should be loading everything.

Note that the default.dat also has a "COLFILE 0" section.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in other words, more or less in order of what needs to be done:

1 - Ease Double Rendering Draw Distance on non-LODs (only on equivalent LODs replaced by this mod), the top-down camera needs to be considering, for what the distance needs to calculated individually for each object (there are currently 633 entries)

2 - Merge models which use the same texture to match the game default Low poly LODs (there should be only a few like the example above), ignoring land and roads which use "generic.txd", as this should either be merged all together or either by type (land/road). And do point (1) for these models.

3 - Road/Land Merge or merging of objects with the same texture. Placement (could be difficult). This needs to be done by section and needs to be planed ahead, where you take, what entries you have spared, and how many you need to add for the missing LOD objects.

4 - *.col stuff ?, I am still wondering if this is necessary except for new LODs, I see the bounding boxes have bigger dimensions for no reason. I don't know which purpose serves the dimension of an empty bounding box *.col entry.

user posted image

I don't think *.col bounding boxes sharing the same space would cause trouble, which would also allow to join buildings with the same textures. This would mainly serve the purpose of having less on-screen objects.

Still not planning to do any of this.

lalalala93
  • lalalala93

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 May 2011

#9

Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:00 AM

just to let you know cj i am using the txd build because with the stutter build i was wasn't getting not very smooth fps with the stutter build. I think it's because you compress the textures because with the xbox mod i should get much less fps but it's the same even though the models are much higher quality and textures are 2x to like 10x resolution. If you want to know the amount of mods i am running at one time i am running

highway mod (with diamond joe quimby's addon converted from gta lc), orbital city, ultimate stunt park, illando, statue of liberty (using the close models as lods as well), werre tower temple and coaster, xbox mod, hq textures by fireburns (removed some from the white trees bug due to different tree models), ultimate mod (i removed army base so stunt park parked cars save game will be parked on the stunt park), thunder dome, back to the future mod, drag strip, rally track, some col patches (joey's garage and the stadium), bunch of buildings and a map fixe (wtc, eiffel tower, petrol station fix), One Piece's HD cars and some extra cars, and of course you LOD mod

So i definently think there should be no problems for newer hardware on a clean gta3
try this for gta3: http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=469552 it's a limit adjuster for gta3
although it cant change streaming memory it can change a lot of other stuff (it got all of my mods working at one time)

I think the ped problem with top down camera is you changed the draw distance with the peds in default.ide may be my mistake but i think that is the reason just try an unmodified default.ide to see if it works

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#10

Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:53 AM Edited by cjd2425, 09 November 2011 - 07:57 AM.

Thanks for reporting, but what I am refering has been there always, play the default game with the top-down camera only, you'll notice peds do rarely spawn while cruising the city on a car, while on foot they spawn, is likely related to the distance the camera is located, the area it covers, close camera and peds spawn, faraway camera and no spawn, you can notice this also when you come to a stop with the car like crashing, it suddenly gets crowded.

That TXD has lossy compressed textures, I used G-TXD to build everything an it didn't seem to support 8-bit textures, so everything is a DXT1 16-bit texture, in the distance differences shouldn't be noticeable but I can see the shimmering, so it is no good. Otherwise I have to build entry by entry manually with TXD Workshop, but it is not a real solution anyways.

Preloading would be better if possible, is just about 23mb of textures or a little more, but it may be written on stone, like the txd.img (even the steam version has this, is uncompressed or a clone of gta3.img, but still there)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the real top-down camera issue, I am still not sure how the game manages LODs but is this:

user posted image

Without further explanation, the building to the left is there on the other cameras. It could be a misunderstanding from my part.

lalalala93
  • lalalala93

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 May 2011

#11

Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:55 PM Edited by lalalala93, 09 November 2011 - 10:11 PM.

I tend to use txd workshop because G-TXD is a bitch to me and wont work . I think you should try and lower down certain ide files in the maps that could work because when i have spaceeinstein's draw distance mod for vc models flicker at a distance with a 10x draw distance with it. Also with GTA SA when some guy made a 10x draw distance mod the entire map would flicker like crazy. I think the peds could be an easy solution try
to fix map issues
1. have default timecyc.dat (because your using 10x draw distance one)
2. lower down certain ide's in the maps
to fix ped issues
1. either open main.scm and change ped density to as high as you can get (note can't load old save games)
2. make a cleo script have have a ped density set as high as you can get (can load old save games)

the opcode for it is
03DE: set_pedestrians_density_multiplier_to 0.0
01EB: set_car_density_to 0.0
change 0.0 to whatever you want like 1.0 or 2.0

for cleo try something like (i am not good at coding but it's just an example)

CODE
thread 'CARAPED'

:CARAPED
wait 50
01EB: set_car_density_to 2.0
03DE: set_pedestrians_density_multiplier_to 2.0
jump @CARAPED

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#12

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:53 PM Edited by cjd2425, 09 November 2011 - 11:00 PM.

Again, the crane flicker is caused by generic.ide (or was it default.ide?), this is why merging LODs mean less objects at once on-screen, this is something that is optimized by default by the game by merging models. Like this:

user posted image

I am aware of the VC and SA issues with FarClp, but I don't see any flicker in the far distance, I do such as on the dock crane but is on object crowded areas such as the start of the game, where all the bollard lights are located, or on the used car dealer area.

Using FarClp 5000 you can still see the fog affecting the north mountains near the stadium, so I had to use 20000.

QUOTE (lalalala93 @ Wednesday, Nov 9 2011, 21:55)
I think the peds could be an easy solution try
to fix map issues


What ped issue are you refering to?. set_density multipliers where documented to work at a value 0.0 and 1.0, and anything below or above those values was ignored or set to the minimum/maximum (0.0/1.0), and 1.0 isn't exactly a lot.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways the "wastebin" needs the alpha flag in the *.IDEs, this seems to render all objects behind the alpha (or some z-buffer stuff):

user posted imageuser posted image

The bench is rendered but the tree not, same goes for your character or a car. Need to remember this one:

- Copy IDE flags for replaced LODs, taken from the equivalent non-LOD entries (ex: the green construction building)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weird I though the bollard lights where transparent (maybe in SA?):

user posted image

The UV is wrong though, for some reason if I add the dummies the game crashes, no idea why.

lalalala93
  • lalalala93

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 May 2011

#13

Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:05 AM Edited by lalalala93, 10 November 2011 - 03:17 AM.

weird i thought it could work with 2.0 where i read here
http://gtag.gtagamin...hp?opcode=03DE#

also i checked to see if the crane would flicker for some reason it doesn't for me it is just fine

i thought the peds were glitchy with the top down camera with this mod but i misunderstood that the fault was with the engine sorry about that

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#14

Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:29 AM Edited by cjd2425, 10 November 2011 - 05:46 AM.

QUOTE (lalalala93 @ Thursday, Nov 10 2011, 03:05)
weird i thought it could work with 2.0 where i read here
http://gtag.gtagamin...hp?opcode=03DE#


I am just basing it on what I read, as I also wanted to have increased density, but after I read the game engine ignores values above 1.0 I didn't even try to see myselft.

It seems "1.0" is considered the maximum because that's what the default games uses as maximum. Is like object draw distance, game uses 3000, and that's it.

See here for example : http://sannybuilder....pic.php?id=1249 (read Den_spb)

And I believe I also read the same thing on this forum, twice at least.

QUOTE (lalalala93 @ Thursday, Nov 10 2011, 03:05)
also i checked to see if the crane would flicker for some reason it doesn't for me it is just fine


The crane flickers from the intro area on the broken bridge when you move the camera, I believe it doesn't from almost every other place, except if you get exactly below them they dissapear, I didn't check if this happens on the vanilla game as LODs tend to get culled (dissapear) when you're on close distances (less than 300m), or so it seems to me.

This is what the non-LOD map looks in MEd:

user posted image

See, there is no crane top, and the same happens for every model that doesn't have a counterpart in the other world, is like the game has a z-fighting issue trying to calculate model swap between the LOD and non-LOD model but since the other doesn't exist, it just flickers into "nothing". This is what I mean when I told I don't understand the LOD management, I believe the LOD objects get culled, though it doesn't make sense "when".

For example if a non-LOD object, an object with collision, is set in IDE to a draw distance bigger than 300 (ex: 3000), it will be rendered but it will get culled (dissapear) once you get 300m from it or closer (it will also have no collisions as documented).

I know there is some sort of fade-in and fade-out model for LODs, but I don't know when it happens or how it gets calculated. I though at first the game rendered LODs as a matryoshka and always rendered them regardless of distance, but they do seem to get culled at somepoint when you're closer to 300m, this is however not specific at all.

Thunderfuckrapist
  • Thunderfuckrapist

    Turdler Durpden

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 21 Jun 2005
  • None
  • Best Vehicle 2012 [HD GTA Cars]

#15

Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:32 AM

QUOTE (cjd2425 @ Wednesday, Nov 9 2011, 17:53)

user posted image

Without further explanation, the building to the left is there on the other cameras. It could be a misunderstanding from my part.

Hmmm, from memory gta3 only renders stuff if the bounding box for the collision file is on the screen. It might have been the same for LOD files I dont really remember.

lalalala93
  • lalalala93

    Square Civilian

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 May 2011

#16

Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:59 AM Edited by lalalala93, 10 November 2011 - 06:05 AM.

QUOTE
The crane flickers from the intro area on the broken bridge when you move the camera, I believe it doesn't from almost every other place, except if you get exactly below them they dissapear


Oh that crane yeah it does disappear when i just checked it sorry i thought of the crane at the car crusher man now i feel like an idiot misunderstanding you a lot, the fault is the generic as you said, ill checked on the reason why it disapered
generics i used
1. use the normal generic.ide (it was fine of course)
2. use the normal generic.ide but changed the draw distance of what your generic had (disapered)
3. use the normal generic.ide but changed it to the model and textures of what your generic had (game crashed)
4. use the normal generic.ide but changed it to the textures of what your generic had (fine but some bugs occured)

(note i only checked on the bridge not under the crane)

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#17

Posted 10 November 2011 - 06:01 AM Edited by cjd2425, 10 November 2011 - 06:19 AM.

QUOTE (OnePiece @ Thursday, Nov 10 2011, 05:32)
Hmmm, from memory gta3 only renders stuff if the bounding box for the collision file is on the screen. It might have been the same for LOD files I dont really remember.

Thanks for the info, I was wondering if using big bounding boxes would force the game to load textures even for buildings behind the player, I mean even when you aren't looking at them, it might be messy though, the IslandLODs used really big bounding boxes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

No, it just doesn't render any LODs at that's it, and LODs are considered anything rendered beyond 300m, not just the name:

user posted imageuser posted image

That's LODistancoast01 at the north of the map, it only exists as a LOD with no counterpart, it's there and then on the other camera, not.

QUOTE (lalalala93 @ Thursday, Nov 10 2011, 05:59)
Oh that crane yeah it does disappear when i just checked it sorry i thought of the crane at the car crusher man now i feel like an idiot misunderstanding you a lot, the fault is the generic as you said, ill checked on the reason why it disapered
generics i used
1. use the normal generic.ide (it was fine of course)
2. use the normal generic.ide but changed the draw distance of what your generic had (disapered)
3. use the normal generic.ide but changed it to the model and textures of what your generic had (game crashed)
4. use the normal generic.ide but changed it to the textures of what your generic had (fine)

(note i only checked on the bridge not under the crane)

It's ok, your feedback has been good, I drowned posts with lots of info that may be innacurate and redundant, some of the points I wrote might not even make sense, but I made them as notations.

I believe I tried with every file back then and I think only replacing the generic.ide caused that, even when you use all the other IDEs at the same time except that one the crane is there, even with the 10x Draw Distance (tymecyc.dat/FarClp).

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#18

Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:39 AM Edited by cjd2425, 17 November 2011 - 12:47 AM.

Anyways, I was curious how this would look as I feel the game is most lacking in object poly specially now that there are more on screen, is very basic smoothing using the same proportions, I couldn't come with a clean object though but they're really fast to make, except matching the original UV. Not intented to be 'real' as they may not match the original game aspect, or either could be inconsistent with the rest of the stuff around like buildings, maybe GTAIV uses resembling models (I don't know).

Full Gallery: http://imageshack.us...seriouslym.png/

Street Lamp 1 / 2:

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

Bollard Light:

user posted imageuser posted image

Traffic Cone:

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

Street Barrier (drum barricade)[lack of omni light is notable on this one]:

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

Fuel depots:

user posted imageuser posted image

Junk tyres:

user posted imageuser posted image

Methical
  • Methical

    Gramps

  • Feroci Racing
  • Joined: 23 May 2008
  • New-Zealand

#19

Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:51 AM

Almost makes me want to blow the dust off my GTAIII and re-install it xD Amazing work.

Wish you where doing this for GTA:SA tounge2.gif

Thunderfuckrapist
  • Thunderfuckrapist

    Turdler Durpden

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 21 Jun 2005
  • None
  • Best Vehicle 2012 [HD GTA Cars]

#20

Posted 17 November 2011 - 01:09 AM Edited by OnePiece, 17 November 2011 - 02:07 AM.

you should join forces with percyp, im sure hed like this.

Also for your alpha problems, use the GTA anos 3dsmax script (if you are using max) and use the alpha fix button. I cant find a working link right now but ill post it if I find it.

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#21

Posted 17 November 2011 - 03:50 AM Edited by cjd2425, 17 November 2011 - 03:58 AM.

QUOTE (methodunderg @ Thursday, Nov 17 2011, 00:51)
Almost makes me want to blow the dust off my GTAIII and re-install it xD Amazing work.

Wish you where doing this for GTA:SA  tounge2.gif


I believe GTA:SA modding scene is likely more active or have more tools, I mean both VC and SA had the increased traffic density mods (IV doesn't need them), and III is still on vanilla level (from experience I think SR2 was on-par or worse regarding cars, kinda hilarious it had ghost traffic all over the place).

QUOTE (OnePiece @ Thursday, Nov 17 2011, 01:09)
you should join forces with percyp, im sure hed like this.

Also for your alpha problems, use the GTA anos 3dsmax script (if you are using max) and use the alpha fix button. I cant find a working link right now but ill post it if I find it.


Thanks again, it was the only thing I didn't try because I thought it was some tool to convert III Series cars and swap between games.

As of now I don't plan to continue this, I am just doing it as a proof test, mainly to see if it looks better or not, I leave it as reference for anyone that catchs interest (including myself).

There are a few screenshots above regarding the car LOD, see the Kuruma, just that from close-up the interior is transparent:

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone has an idea if III supports the Shadow Mesh, I don't mind if it has a fixed projection, I am mainly asking for stuff such as bridges that should cast direct on top shadows.

Thunderfuckrapist
  • Thunderfuckrapist

    Turdler Durpden

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 21 Jun 2005
  • None
  • Best Vehicle 2012 [HD GTA Cars]

#22

Posted 17 November 2011 - 04:29 AM

nah theres no shadows in gta3. only pre lighting on the map objects.

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#23

Posted 17 November 2011 - 05:11 AM

That explains why I couldn't make them work, there is the alpha textures (?) which are used as shadows, the trees and railtracks come to my mind, they are separate objects/meshes and count towards total (and flicker as such), looks mostly fine though they have this limitation which brakes the illusion:

user posted image

I would give a look to see if this is kind of fixable, but I think car shadows do the same and I don't think is something that could be sorted modifiying the *.dff. Weird they are tagged with the "68" flag, which is 64+4 (documented as "Disables the shadow mesh to project a shadow" + Alpha 1).

Fireburns
  • Fireburns

    Snitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2003

#24

Posted 18 November 2011 - 07:53 PM

OMG! wow.gif You're doing brilliant work! I hope you plan to release your smoothed out models as well! Too bad I cannot contribute anything related to this topic...

I don't know anything about this lod stuff, but this mod here also included some files affecting the clipping distance. I'm not sure if it might be of any help though.

Fireburns

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#25

Posted 18 November 2011 - 09:20 PM Edited by cjd2425, 19 November 2011 - 05:10 AM.

All the models I did have something wrong though, you can see that in the screenshots, the objects are "dark" not pre-lighted (or have near 0 specular), the game keeps crashing when I exported the models with the dummies, there are two types of dummies omni boxes, and collision boxes which I have no idea what these last do, I thought they were helpers left in the model to show how *.cols were calculated or be recalculated, rather than some positioning.

So they have no dummies, and the UV should be readjusted to match the original model, mainly mantain UV proportions and have coherent or no stretching.

Other models can't be smoothed and require actual effort, like the Fire Hydrant, there is a long tutorial about this, alternatively one could look if IV has a similar model and port it.

See for example the corner of this street sign:

user posted imageuser posted image

I didn't even notice they were like this, the problem here though is the texture and not the model itself, the texture should be done in square format and the UV would auto-adjust to a model with a curve, it may not be a difficult texture to remake if one has the proper font, anyways the distortion is minimal.

This one needs to be rotated in the IPL, is hovering in the air in-game, I see it everytime and is distracting:

user posted image

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there instructions for the alpha fix on anos script, like a special order of applying it, then I convert the model with Kam's script (GTA3 -> Export), right ?.

I tried applying the entire alpha fix to a kuruma and it almost worked, I have a set of invisible doors when looking through the other doors side, which I mentioned can't be logically solved by hierarchy order, one will be always on top of the other. Then I applied selectively on windows parts of a Blista and the result was worse, the blista has more windows though.

Dingleman
  • Dingleman

    SA:LC Mod Leader

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2005

#26

Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:58 AM

I like the idea of this. Those low poly models are just getting more and more useless with the rate at which our systems are improving.

Keep it up! Hope to be able to test it out soon.

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#27

Posted 19 November 2011 - 06:43 PM Edited by cjd2425, 20 November 2011 - 08:27 AM.

QUOTE (Fireburns @ Friday, Nov 18 2011, 19:53)
I don't know anything about this lod stuff, but this mod here also included some files affecting the clipping distance. I'm not sure if it might be of any help though.

Fireburns

I took a look at that, is funny because he mentions the peds/cars paths being on the IDE files as a possible place to increase draw distance for peds and car, like it's been done for the other III series games. Aside from that besides increasing FarClp on the tymecyc it seems like he decreased the FogSt (Fog Start or Strenght), I believe I got rid of that fog by having even a further FarClp, also I don't want to modify wheater conditions.

Anyways I don't see the distance fog, this is something used on most games even today, it gives a perception of depth, I remember you can make a hotkey on Unreal Engine 3 games to dynamically disable/enable fog in-game (I didn't like on Alice: Madness Returns, along with DOF and Blur)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I need to read some documentation of the DFF and dummies, I can see objects with *.col files where the models are clear of any boxes (dummy), and the "omni" makes no difference to my eyes which gives me the impression they're just helpers, then I can know if it is safe to end with something like this (object has no "childs"), and in the case it's not then if it's possible to make it work:

user posted imageuser posted image

I wonder what causes the drum barrier to look like it had flat lighting or no specular, is wierd because other models aren't like this, DFF Viewer renders it properly, it could be a problem on my model (or maybe is the texture is flat, ah well):

user posted imageuser posted image

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

user posted imageuser posted image Smooth -> Default -> Smooth (not Indirect)

Max tends to corrupt most tube models with intersections, even when not then the smoothing will be wrong, a better a solution to this is to not have real intersections (like the default model does), it ends being a lot easier and keeps the model being really simple with less polycount, I am not sure what to do. There are three models like this, each has different leght, the broken model might require some effort.

cjd2425
  • cjd2425

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2011

#28

Posted 24 November 2011 - 06:50 AM Edited by cjd2425, 24 November 2011 - 06:55 AM.

Completed these 4 models:

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

Full Gallery (plenty of the models are older versions): http://imageshack.us...11/errorar.png/

DOWNLOAD (requires GTA Mod Installer, not included): http://www.mediafire...4ty03zph6gu3gte

Unzip, Run GTA Mod installer, and select "install mod with script file" then "I want to select a folder with script file", select GTA3IMG.

NOTES:

Note that these models are instanced many times (very many...) in-game, specially if used along this mod, it makes no difference on my rig which is using a underclocked 8600gt, but it might brake the framerate on even older machines.

3dsmax 2010 *.max files (undetached models): http://www.mediafire...f45jjy0t0fettmw

I had to work with the default textures, the spheric lights have a lighter metal area around the back of the mapping, so I had to resort to UV stretching in order to avoid unmatched colors/tones (since there is only one way to wrap the texture around multiple times without loops/rings).

- The bollard Light requires to change the alpha flag in generic.ide in order to render most objects (character/cars/etc) behind the transparent area (change "0" by "4" at the end):

CODE
generic.ide:

1328, bollardlight, metal, 1, 299, 0
to
1328, bollardlight, metal, 1, 299, 4

- I have no info on Vertex Colors and/or Pre-lighting currently, which means the models may be darker or could have a diferent illumination than the original.

- Either lights or the base isn't perfectly centered, you'll notice the default models have this weird inclination, this is more important for light glows (is this stored on *.col ?).

- The lamp_coast has an unsmooth surface, which is likely an error or a limitation with the current version of 3dsmax I used, here:

user posted image

- A lot lights need to be reubicated, specially around the west-north coast, lots need to be upper (because the base is below the floor), and other needs to be rotated to be pointing inland:

user posted image

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is this ?, it looked like somekind fog on some floors:

user posted image

The door on the used card dealer shop may need the alpha flag:

user posted image

Plenty of unclosed models everywhere:

user posted image

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have also redone the lights on the billboards, but I can't make sense of what type they are, they look to be tapered or a half-spherical, those are supposed to be spotlights so the later would make more sense:

user posted image

I wonder why there are so much polys on a flat face with uniform mapping.

If anyone has any idea about the lights suggestions or references are appreciated, though with a only a full white texture anything that's not a sphere looks out of place.

Fireburns
  • Fireburns

    Snitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2003

#29

Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:53 PM

OMG!!! inlove.gif

I will have a look at your release at the weekend, since your work deserves much more time than I have now.

The fog on some floors is probably caused by the .col file of the set object.

See you later! You made me looking forward to the weekend even more!

Fireburns

Methical
  • Methical

    Gramps

  • Feroci Racing
  • Joined: 23 May 2008
  • New-Zealand

#30

Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:19 PM

OMG. the lights look awesome. I presume left is BEFORE, and right is AFTER?

Any chance they can be convereted for GTA:SA?




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users