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GTA shouldn't remove kids

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Videogamer555
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#1

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:08 PM Edited by Videogamer555, 16 October 2011 - 11:15 PM.

Why? Because kids exist. A city with no kids is unrealistic. The ENTIRE point of the game is to make a crime simulator that is as realistic as possible. Having no kids defeats that purpose, and with that lack of realism the game is un-enjoyable. There's no legal reason to not include kids. If the game actually allowed you to kill kids (like if every kid that was killed ingame caused a singnal to be sent over the internet to some random kid's real computer and caused it to explode killing the kid) THEN there'd be legal reason to ban the game as it would then constitute REAL murder.

The age of a fictional character doesn't effect the legality of the game in the US (maybe some other countries, but not in this great nation of liberty). The US constitution and the Supreme Court (who's job it is to uphold the constitution) are on the game maker's side in this issue.

If you are a parent have no legal recourse against a game company, even if your child gets killed by a madman who'd been "inspired" to commit a crime because of a game he'd played. It's been too court numerous times, and the US constitution's right to free speech has ALWAYS won. Did you know under the George W Bush presidency, that his conservative congress actually passed a law that would ban any anime pictures which depicted fictional underage characters being raped (which to anime fans is known as "lolicon hentai")? The US Supreme Court quickly struck down that law. Yes the Supreme Court must uphold the constitution, and has so far done so even for very offensive material. Are you aware that one judge's opinion (I'm not sure but I believe at the time he was a Supreme Court justice) in a case involving material which possibly could inspire someone to commit a crime said this:
"Speech, even if it has a tendency to increase the likelihood that someone may commit a crime, is not a reason to ban that speech".
This is a VERY powerful ruling, as it basically means that the ONE AND ONLY argument people have had to call for the banning of violent video games is NO REASON AT ALL to ban such violent video games. So far I think the only speech that is illegal is making a direct threat of harm against someone.

If there ever was a suit against Rockstar games, Rockstar would have the law on their side, and the plaintiff would therefore lose the case quite quickly. Sure people can do what they can to try to hurt Rockstar's business, like holding a boycott, but that won't be effective because the only people who'd go with such a boycott would be those who already hate the game and this "kids in the game" would have been the final straw for them. But since they already hated the game, they'd NEVER have been potential customers. Rockstar would lose no money. Gamers in general, and especially GTA fans, would have no reason to support such a boycott or protest. Rockstar's customers would stay their customers, and they would NOT lose any money (at least not in an amount that would be noticeable to their overall budget plan). In fact they might gain MORE customers, who's previous complaint was that the game was too unrealistic without kids in it.

universetwisters
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#2

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:13 PM

i can imagine morality being a huge issue. I personally wouldnt feel right putting a gun to a kid and blowing him away. And even if it isnt intended, theres always collateral. I could be driving down a sidewalk and accidently hit a kid, or i could be in a shootout with the police and a kid gets hit by a stray bullet from either party

plus, it could be out of character from the most part. I can imagine the GTA 3 guy doing it, as he is a psychopathic silent killer with no remorse, but Niko doing it? Or CJ? it wouldnt feel right

Videogamer555
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#3

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE (universetwisters @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:13)
i can imagine morality being a huge issue. I personally wouldnt feel right putting a gun to a kid and blowing him away. And even if it isnt intended, theres always collateral. I could be driving down a sidewalk and accidently hit a kid, or i could be in a shootout with the police and a kid gets hit by a stray bullet from either party

plus, it could be out of character from the most part. I can imagine the GTA 3 guy doing it, as he is a psychopathic silent killer with no remorse, but Niko doing it? Or CJ? it wouldnt feel right

And that's why this version is UNREALISTIC. Kids really DO get killed in gang shootouts. It would make the whole atmosphere of the game seem more realistic with this in place. Not that I want to kill in-game kids, but their presence in the game, and their ability to die, would increase the realism factor of the game, and make it more worth playing. They could even have a score system in which killing a child would result in a LOSS of points (unless that child was actually a gang member of the rival gang), so you'd try to be more carefull when having a gang shootout, or when engaging the police in a firefight near a school.

universetwisters
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#4

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE (Videogamer555 @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:18)
QUOTE (universetwisters @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:13)
i can imagine morality being a huge issue. I personally wouldnt feel right putting a gun to a kid and blowing him away. And even if it isnt intended, theres always collateral. I could be driving down a sidewalk and accidently hit a kid, or i could be in a shootout with the police and a kid gets hit by a stray bullet from either party

plus, it could be out of character from the most part. I can imagine the GTA 3 guy doing it, as he is a psychopathic silent killer with no remorse, but Niko doing it? Or CJ? it wouldnt feel right

And that's why this version is UNREALISTIC. Kids really DO get killed in gang shootouts. It would make the whole atmosphere of the game seem more realistic with this in place. Not that I want to kill in-game kids, but their presence in the game, and their ability to die, would increase the realism factor of the game, and make it more worth playing. They could even have a score system in which killing a child would result in a LOSS of points (unless that child was actually a gang member of the rival gang), so you'd try to be more carefull when having a gang shootout, or when engaging the police in a firefight near a school.

as i said before, even if there were kids in the game, it wouldnt feel right having them around, knowing that one slip of the wheel/trigger could send them to fiddlers green

unless the in-game kids have mannerisms of the annoying 13-year olds you see on xbox live, who will accuse you of hacking/modding if you commit a crime. now THAT, i would take pleasure in killing

Videogamer555
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#5

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:28 PM Edited by Videogamer555, 16 October 2011 - 11:37 PM.

QUOTE (universetwisters @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:25)
QUOTE (Videogamer555 @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:18)
QUOTE (universetwisters @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:13)
i can imagine morality being a huge issue. I personally wouldnt feel right putting a gun to a kid and blowing him away. And even if it isnt intended, theres always collateral. I could be driving down a sidewalk and accidently hit a kid, or i could be in a shootout with the police and a kid gets hit by a stray bullet from either party

plus, it could be out of character from the most part. I can imagine the GTA 3 guy doing it, as he is a psychopathic silent killer with no remorse, but Niko doing it? Or CJ? it wouldnt feel right

And that's why this version is UNREALISTIC. Kids really DO get killed in gang shootouts. It would make the whole atmosphere of the game seem more realistic with this in place. Not that I want to kill in-game kids, but their presence in the game, and their ability to die, would increase the realism factor of the game, and make it more worth playing. They could even have a score system in which killing a child would result in a LOSS of points (unless that child was actually a gang member of the rival gang), so you'd try to be more carefull when having a gang shootout, or when engaging the police in a firefight near a school.

as i said before, even if there were kids in the game, it wouldnt feel right having them around, knowing that one slip of the wheel/trigger could send them to fiddlers green

unless the in-game kids have mannerisms of the annoying 13-year olds you see on xbox live, who will accuse you of hacking/modding if you commit a crime. now THAT, i would take pleasure in killing

Knowing that one slip of the trigger might cost you 1000 points would probably be incentive enough to watch where you are shooting. That's why I suggested a score system in which various things would build up the score, but shooting kids would bring down your score.



LuisBellic
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#6

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:34 PM

Maybe it could have kids but you couldn't kill them and if you tried to shoot them with a gun it wouldn't work. And if you hit them with a car they could get up and say "You little bitch" or something. So basically whatever you try to do them won't kill them.

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#7

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:37 PM Edited by Videogamer555, 16 October 2011 - 11:44 PM.

Also wanna see a REAL tasteless game? A game based on a REAL crime? Check out:
http://googumproduce.com/vtech/
It's not illegal. The maker of the game has gotten complaints about how bad it is, but guess what; he's IGNORED those complainers. He even joked about how if someone payed him a few thousand $ that he'd take the game down. The game is still up. It's been altered from the original form but ONLY in the background music playing, because the RIAA told him the previous music was under copyright. To avoid a music piracy suit or something he changed the background music in his game. The game is still JUST AS VIOLENT and JUST AS TASTELESS as it was in the original.


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#8

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:39 PM

Think about the controversy.

Videogamer555
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#9

Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:47 PM Edited by Videogamer555, 17 October 2011 - 05:15 AM.

Oh and here's another tasteless game (which would have been banned if the Bush congress had gotten its way, and is currently illegal in Canada, the UK, and Australia). It's called Rapelay.


Click these pictures to see larger versions of the pictures.
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image

It's a 3d computer rendered game using characters who have an anime look about them, that was made in Japan. The plot is you are some sex offender and your goal is to rape this woman and her two daughters. It never was released outside of Japan, and therefore the torrent of it with fanmade translation is the only way a westerner will ever get to play it. You are more likely to get arrested for piracy (though that itself unlikely cause the Japanese company probably doesn't care if someone who never could have purchased it over in the US downloaded it instead) than you are for any other crime, because this great nation, the United States considers free speech to be one of the most important liberties that one can have.

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#10

Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:47 AM

GTA isn't a score based game so I don't see how losing points for killing kids would work.

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#11

Posted 17 October 2011 - 03:21 AM

This is already a topic about this:

http://www.gtaforums...817&hl=children

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#12

Posted 17 October 2011 - 03:34 PM

Personally I think that the OP makes sense: there is nothingnwrong about having kids who can be killed, injured, robbed, raped whatsoever.

GTA is a real-life simulator, and you have to agree, any second somewhere in the world kids get robbed, killed, raped etc. This is LIFE! Welcome to reality.

The same goes for elderly people with walkers as well as disabled individuals.

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#13

Posted 17 October 2011 - 08:35 PM

gta is a "realistic" crime simulator? Really?

in real life you can survive a great amount of gunshot?
in real life you can rob a bank, kill a lot of policemen and not even be suspected by the police, even when everyone in the bank know that the hostages even knows that the robber are irish and brothers ?
in real life the police forget about you if you run away just 1-2 miles?
in real life some crazy swing bug can send you in the space? (ok, this is lame biggrin.gif )

even in those "more real" GTAs, there's nothing about "realistic" crime simulator, nor "life simulator"... it's a VIDEOGAME that is a little more mature, but NOT realistic in any way!

and, by the way, 2 kid were already in gta (gta Advance and GTA VCS)

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#14

Posted 18 October 2011 - 06:10 AM

I like children. Since it is a video game, I would love to slaughter a youngin just as I would an adult. People need to shut up and just deal with it. That's all there is to it.

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#15

Posted 18 October 2011 - 08:47 AM

No way, at least not with a popular game GTA!! It will get every fan's mind disturbed!

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#16

Posted 18 October 2011 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (Swoorup @ Tuesday, Oct 18 2011, 11:47)
No way, at least not with a popular game GTA!! It will get every fan's mind disturbed!

You're already wrong. At least my mind, even if I'm the only one, will remain undisturbed.

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#17

Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:18 PM

theres a law about child violence in games. It cant be done... so no kids at all would come. But animals made a brief cameo in all GTA games as birds and gta IV,LAD and TBOGT as real looking birds to kill. Plus it would be banned on the spot and ESRB will refuse to rate it due to laws and the series would be canned and rockstar would go onto making there other games a success. Imagine a world where LA noire is the leading game series... NOT ON MY WATCH sneaky2.gif

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#18

Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:53 PM

I've said this many times before, but I wouldn't have a problem with children if it wasn't a focal point of the game aka including them in missions. Then again R* rarely include innocent peds in missions anyway.



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#19

Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:29 AM

QUOTE (Videogamer555 @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:47)
Oh and here's another tasteless game (which would have been banned if the Bush congress had gotten its way, and is currently illegal in Canada, the UK, and Australia). It's called Rapelay.


Click these pictures to see larger versions of the pictures.
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image

It's a 3d computer rendered game using characters who have an anime look about them, that was made in Japan. The plot is you are some sex offender and your goal is to rape this woman and her two daughters. It never was released outside of Japan, and therefore the torrent of it with fanmade translation is the only way a westerner will ever get to play it. You are more likely to get arrested for piracy (though that itself unlikely cause the Japanese company probably doesn't care if someone who never could have purchased it over in the US downloaded it instead) than you are for any other crime, because this great nation, the United States considers free speech to be one of the most important liberties that one can have.

Um, games can be "banned" from sale in the US. If they're given an Adults Only (AO) rating, pretty much all stores will refuse to sell it and animated content can be illegal, even in a video game. Child porn and rape porn would fall under that, so that Japanese game would most certainly be banned in the US if they tried to sell it mainstream.

Obviously, through the internet you can get anything. That doesn't mean its legal, though.

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#20

Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:35 AM

Would be epic if they added kids i really wanna pull up my shotgun and blow their heads off even if i am 14.

Videogamer555
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#21

Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:36 PM Edited by Videogamer555, 04 May 2012 - 12:41 PM.

QUOTE (Bad Girls @ Sunday, Oct 30 2011, 06:29)
QUOTE (Videogamer555 @ Sunday, Oct 16 2011, 23:47)
Oh and here's another tasteless game (which would have been banned if the Bush congress had gotten its way, and is currently illegal in Canada, the UK, and Australia). It's called Rapelay.


Click these pictures to see larger versions of the pictures.
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image

It's a 3d computer rendered game using characters who have an anime look about them, that was made in Japan. The plot is you are some sex offender and your goal is to rape this woman and her two daughters. It never was released outside of Japan, and therefore the torrent of it with fanmade translation is the only way a westerner will ever get to play it. You are more likely to get arrested for piracy (though that itself unlikely cause the Japanese company probably doesn't care if someone who never could have purchased it over in the US downloaded it instead) than you are for any other crime, because this great nation, the United States considers free speech to be one of the most important liberties that one can have.

Um, games can be "banned" from sale in the US. If they're given an Adults Only (AO) rating, pretty much all stores will refuse to sell it and animated content can be illegal, even in a video game. Child porn and rape porn would fall under that, so that Japanese game would most certainly be banned in the US if they tried to sell it mainstream.

Obviously, through the internet you can get anything. That doesn't mean its legal, though.

Actually you are wrong about that. Let me explain to you the history of the law I believe you are referring to. Under George W Bush, the congress passed a law banning underage pornographic cartoons, and signed into law by the president. HOWEVER it was STRUCK DOWN by the Supreme Court on constitutional grounds, as the law didn't protect anybody (nobody was really being harmed) and therefore the law only served to violate the US constitution 1st ammendment (free speech). Later (still under Bush) Congress passed a new similar law (which would again have banned underage pornographic cartoons). Again it was signed into law by the president, but AGAIN it was then struck down by the supreme court on constitutional grounds.

Currently in the US, there is NO LAW banning underage pornographic content when the person in question is just a fictional character. It is only illegal if the image is a photograph, or such a realistic computer graphic that the average person would mistake it for real child porn (and the only reason the law banning "photorealistic" images is not struck down on constitutional grounds is that such imagery cause the police to divert attention to such images until it can be determined they are not real, and such waste of police resources puts many other people in danger, much like a prank 911 call).

And GTA isn't even about child porn. If children WERE included, the problem would be in the sense of showing PHYSICAL VIOLENCE (not sexual violation) toward the children. Such VIOLENT material involving fictional children has NEVER EVEN BEEN CONSIDERED UNDER ANY LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#22

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:11 PM

I wanna play that Jap game so bad right now.

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#23

Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:05 AM

QUOTE (universetwisters @ Monday, Oct 17 2011, 10:13)
i can imagine morality being a huge issue. I personally wouldnt feel right putting a gun to a kid and blowing him away. And even if it isnt intended, theres always collateral. I could be driving down a sidewalk and accidently hit a kid, or i could be in a shootout with the police and a kid gets hit by a stray bullet from either party

plus, it could be out of character from the most part. I can imagine the GTA 3 guy doing it, as he is a psychopathic silent killer with no remorse, but Niko doing it? Or CJ? it wouldnt feel right

You wouldn't feel right!?! Have you not noticed that GTA is a game and that in the game the children would just be digital people shorter than the other digital people. I'm sure you don't care shooting adult people in a game, so what's it matter if it's a child.

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#24

Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:23 AM

There will never be kids in a GTA game, that's for sure. The ESRB and other rating companies wouldn't rate the game. The same goes for the ''Max Payne 3 gore'' in V.

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#25

Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:48 PM

QUOTE (Simon_V @ Sunday, May 6 2012, 11:23)
There will never be kids in a GTA game, that's for sure. The ESRB and other rating companies wouldn't rate the game. The same goes for the ''Max Payne 3 gore'' in V.

You don't need a rating to sell a game. There's no law about that. Also a game can be rated AO. While these only get sold in stores that sell AO or unrated games it would still be a viable option. R* already makes pleanty of games that are less than AO rating, that they could have one GTA game that didn't make a proffit, and overall they would still make money from all the games they sell that ARE rated and ARE rated at less than AO.

I'd find it an interesting experience to play a game that had "no holds barred" and just put in whatever the game makers wanted, ratings be damned.

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#26

Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (KaRzY6 @ Sunday, May 6 2012, 06:05)
QUOTE (universetwisters @ Monday, Oct 17 2011, 10:13)
i can imagine morality being a huge issue. I personally wouldnt feel right putting a gun to a kid and blowing him away. And even if it isnt intended, theres always collateral. I could be driving down a sidewalk and accidently hit a kid, or i could be in a shootout with the police and a kid gets hit by a stray bullet from either party

plus, it could be out of character from the most part. I can imagine the GTA 3 guy doing it, as he is a psychopathic silent killer with no remorse, but Niko doing it? Or CJ? it wouldnt feel right

You wouldn't feel right!?! Have you not noticed that GTA is a game and that in the game the children would just be digital people shorter than the other digital people. I'm sure you don't care shooting adult people in a game, so what's it matter if it's a child.

but niko & cj has morals to a point

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#27

Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:45 AM

Why don't they do what Bethesda do in their games, seems ok to me.

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#28

Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:17 AM

If they bring back the Honor system (literally, the honor system from RDR), then it'd be okay in my eyes. i.e. If you kill an innocent civilian adult, -50, if you kill an innocent civilian child, -200.

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#29

Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE (Videogamer555 @ Sunday, May 6 2012, 23:48)
QUOTE (Simon_V @ Sunday, May 6 2012, 11:23)
There will never be kids in a GTA game, that's for sure. The ESRB and other rating companies wouldn't rate the game. The same goes for the ''Max Payne 3 gore'' in V.

You don't need a rating to sell a game. There's no law about that. Also a game can be rated AO. While these only get sold in stores that sell AO or unrated games it would still be a viable option. R* already makes pleanty of games that are less than AO rating, that they could have one GTA game that didn't make a proffit, and overall they would still make money from all the games they sell that ARE rated and ARE rated at less than AO.

I'd find it an interesting experience to play a game that had "no holds barred" and just put in whatever the game makers wanted, ratings be damned.

I fully agree with u, I also want to play a game (Manhunt 2) that's rated AO. But the rating companies will not rate them, unless they downgrade/censore the violence (Manhunt 2).




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