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Upgraded to GTX 560 from 8800GT but it runs worse

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james_root
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#1

Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:31 PM

i upgraded to a 1 gb gtx 560 from a 512mb 8800gt , but im almost having the same performance at most of the games but at gta 4 its even worse

cpu: e8400 @3.2 ghz , psu: ocz stealthxstream 600W


gta 4 used to run at around 23-30 fps with an 8800gt at textures medium and shadows high. now with the new gtx 560 at the same settings i am getting 15-25 fps. according to msi burner the gpu usage is %30-35.

i tried re-installing different drivers but it didnt help , could the brand new gtx 560 be faulty? i mean can a faulty gfx card would work but underperform??? i also think a cpu bottleneck cant be this bad , right?


the weird thing with my problem is:
like all the games are doing their best to act like i didnt install a gtx 560 , they simply gave the same performance as 8800gt but with using gtx 560's %30-40-50 percent of power.

for example:
driver san francisco used to run at 30-60 fps with 8800gt , now it runs EXACTLY same with gtx560 but when i look the gpu usage it is %30!!!!!!!!!!!! shouldnt it work like at i dont know %50-60 to ensure that i have a stable 60 fps , but no it runs at %30 and fps goes down to 30's.


mafia 2 , runs the same but has stuttering ( fps goes down to 15 for a sec) 8800gt ran it smoother

ac:b almost runs the same

batman arkham asylum: runs the same , uses %30 of gpu.

bf3: uses %100 of gpu but runs at 25-35 fps at high.

THANKS!

Prometheus
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#2

Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:40 PM

Title is kinda seducing. tounge.gif

I think the CPU bottlenecking is the problem.

BUT maybe the video card is faulty, or even the PSU.

yojo2
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#3

Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:43 PM

Are you using Windows 7 or Vista? If so, try changing OS to XP. GeForce 400/500 series on newer operating systems are known for having very bad performance on dual core CPUs.

OverTheBelow
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#4

Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:04 PM

The CPU is bottlenecking. I never got much more than 40fps in (console port) games out of my 5850 till I upgraded to my i5 from my overclocked E8400. Then, it was bliss; every game could now run at 60fps with a little bit of settings tweaking, unlike before where it runs sh*tty even on lowest settings.

Mafia 2, GTA 4 and BFBC2 were a couple of the games that were limited to the extent that I couldn't hit 60fps regardless of settings, and my E8400 was at 4.3ghz!

yojo2
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#5

Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:10 PM Edited by yojo2, 30 September 2011 - 08:13 PM.

Yes, CPU is the issue too, but IMHO it comes mostly from f*cked up nVidia drivers (which are very CPU sensitive) for Vista/7. IMHO E8400 even on stock should be able to pull off more power from GTX560 (30-35% GPU usage is definitely not right). Besides, if it was just CPU problem, performance shouldn't drop after GPU upgrade.

I'd try returning that card and getting HD6850/HD6870 instead, since there is no such issue with Radeons (at least with HD6800 series). Of course CPU upgrade instead will do the job too.

james_root
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#6

Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:02 PM

okay i understand you guys but how come it could run worse.

i mean i was able to finish gta 4 and eflc with a 8800gt ; because i had playable frame rates mostly around 25-30 , sometimes it would fall down to 22. but with gtx560 its unplayable at the same settings.. 15-25 fps.

and mafia 2.. i didnt have any stuttering with 8800gt.. played it with stable 35 fps. but with gtx 560 there is stuttering :S

Jacko427
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#7

Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:47 PM

GTX560 is way far greater than the 8800GT.
8800GT is many years old.

yojo2
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#8

Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:24 AM Edited by yojo2, 01 October 2011 - 07:32 AM.

QUOTE (james_root @ Friday, Sep 30 2011, 23:02)
okay i understand you guys but how come it could run worse.
I've explained this already - drivers are the problem. You are using Windows Vista/7, right?

james_root
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#9

Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:52 AM

QUOTE (yojo2 @ Saturday, Oct 1 2011, 02:24)
QUOTE (james_root @ Friday, Sep 30 2011, 23:02)
okay i understand you guys but how come it could run worse.
I've explained this already - drivers are the problem. You are using Windows Vista/7, right?

yeah win 7. but i uninstalled and reinstalled drivers for like 5-6 times

yojo2
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#10

Posted 01 October 2011 - 10:04 AM

Reinstalling drivers won't improve anything. You need to either switch to XP, upgrade CPU or change GPU to HD6850/HD6870.

radioman
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#11

Posted 01 October 2011 - 04:15 PM

QUOTE
You need to either switch to XP


That's impossible to do legally, as XP was stopped being sold as of October 22, 2010, as seen here in this quote from the Microsoft website:
QUOTE
Windows XP Support and End of Sales
Even though we ended the sale of Windows XP on October 22, 2010, we still plan to provide support for individual users and businesses until April 2014. For more information, see the Windows XP Help & How-to page. As Windows XP sales come to an end, it's also a good time to think about upgrading to Windows 7, which is designed to be compatible with many of the Windows XP programs you're accustomed to using.



So, that is NOT an option legally-except for 7 Pro and 7 Ultimate-those are the ONLY ones it mentions that has downgrade rights included..(and because of this, it is against the forum's No-Warez rule to discuss)...Just a friendly heads up. tounge2.gif

But, Why would anyone want to downgrade to XP, when they are just going to have to upgrade again come April 2014?-It doesn't make sense when you have the latest and greatest OS, why downgrade to a lesser one? Just curious? confused.gif I mean, there are A LOT of things that 7 includes that ARE NOT included in XP. Not to mention, XP is more prone to Viruses and malware than 7 is...I mean every time I check the report from my AV's site, of ALL the list of threats, I have yet to see any infections for Windows 7-ALL Virus, etc. infections are for Vista, XP, and earlier OS's...Just curious why someone would want to compromise that extra security by downgrading? confused.gif

OverTheBelow
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#12

Posted 01 October 2011 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (radioman @ Saturday, Oct 1 2011, 17:15)
QUOTE
You need to either switch to XP


That's impossible to do legally, as XP was stopped being sold as of October 22, 2010

Not if you already own Windows XP, lol. It's absolutely possible (and legal) to re/install a copy you bought before that date.


However, I'm not recommending you should get that outdated thing. It doesn't magically make IV smooth on a system where the CPU is the bottleneck.

SlaveZer0
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#13

Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:29 PM

QUOTE (yojo2 @ Friday, Sep 30 2011, 19:43)
Are you using Windows 7 or Vista? If so, try changing OS to XP. GeForce 400/500 series on newer operating systems are known for having very bad performance on dual core CPUs.

this is plain and simple the stupidest thing ive ever heard. so if your car has trouble you should revert back to a horse and buggy? makes no sense, besides youd lose features and memory you paid for.

ok now to the op, you have several choices... you could reformat your pc and put everything in clean. but what i would recommend is to uninstall all nvidia drivers, use driver cleaner to remove remnants and delete the folder. then make sure the nvidia folder is deleted. reinstall the drivers (make sure not to install the 3d vision drivers) then go into nvidia control panel and set it to quality (make sure it uses 3d application setting) and make sure in advanced it it set to single display performance mode. these things 98% should clear up your issues.

yojo2
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#14

Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:56 PM Edited by yojo2, 01 October 2011 - 05:58 PM.

QUOTE (SlaveZer0 @ Saturday, Oct 1 2011, 19:29)
this is plain and simple the stupidest thing ive ever heard. so if your car has trouble you should revert back to a horse and buggy? makes no sense, besides youd lose features and memory you paid for.

I've just said what is (IMHO) the source of this problem - drivers. Low performance on dual core CPUs on Vista/7 is a problem since 256 version drivers were released and, at least as far as I know, it wasn't fixed yet. nVidia is well aware of that issue and they even tried to improve the situation once (see 275.27 changelog), but it didn't seem to help that much.

Slamman
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#15

Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:56 PM

I still have a nVidia 6200 for AGPx, you know? For Shader Model #4 IIRC, or is it 3, Direct X 9.0c should still work with GTA 4, I believe, certainly XP OS, but the 8600 to 8800 nVidia is where you start within the recommended spec for GTA4, the 6200 and 7100 I have (integrated) are not really in vogue for anything anymore, but they were supporting DVI-D, and HD video

SlaveZer0
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#16

Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:51 PM

there is no agp card that can run gta iv.

james_root
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#17

Posted 01 October 2011 - 08:38 PM

i uninstalled and then used drivercleaner software and deleted everything about nvidia , they installed drivers for a few times , but it didnt help. i also tried re-installing gta 4 and again it didnt help a bit. gta 4 uses about %30 of gtx 560 and gives even worse performance then a 8800gt

SlaveZer0
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#18

Posted 02 October 2011 - 01:52 AM

what exactly are your symptoms please? and as mentioned before, a dual core cpu is choking this video card. it is an unbalanced power struggle for bandwidth within your system.

radioman
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#19

Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:28 AM

QUOTE (james_root @ Saturday, Oct 1 2011, 15:38)
i uninstalled and then used drivercleaner software and deleted everything about nvidia , they installed drivers for a few times , but it didnt help. i also tried re-installing gta 4 and again it didnt help a bit. gta 4 uses about %30 of gtx 560 and gives even worse performance then a 8800gt

It seems that your Processor IS NOT compatible with your new Video card-ie. the Video card is too "High End" for the Processor, since you have a low-end processor...So, you will have to either (1) upgrade the processor to at least a Quad core OR (2) go back to the old video card.

james_root
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#20

Posted 02 October 2011 - 01:38 PM

i just ran 3dmark 11 basic edition 720p test and the scores are terrible.

i dont know the link will show the results but
http://3dmark.com/3d...RLCL5ncPz55Y8rM

Detailed scores
3DMark Score P3102
Graphics Score 3689
Physics Score 2100
Combined Score 2100
GraphicsTest1 17.97 FPS
GraphicsTest2 18.16 FPS
GraphicsTest3 22.42 FPS
GraphicsTest4 10.64 FPS
PhysicsTest 6.67 FPS
CombinedTest 9.77 FPS

unc13bud
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#21

Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE
the weird thing with my problem is:
like all the games are doing their best to act like i didnt install a gtx 560 , they simply gave the same performance as 8800gt but with using gtx 560's %30-40-50 percent of power.


please post the manufacturer and specifications of your power supply

luceberg
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#22

Posted 02 October 2011 - 11:27 PM

Your Ram is not running well, 3Gb at 333Mhz is poor. A matched pair 2x2Gb would run double data rate of 667Mhz. It may be that a 1Gb video card leaves less address space in your 32bit OS for gta4 than a 512Mb one, which could account for poor performance. Upgrading to 4Gb ram and a 64bit Windows 7 would mend this. Also, then, use the commandline -ReservedApp 0 (not with a 32bit OS).

I may be wrong though, please comment.

unc13bud
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#23

Posted 03 October 2011 - 02:39 AM Edited by unc13bud, 03 October 2011 - 02:42 AM.

ok, i see its a stealthstream 600w.
http://www.hardwares...com/article/451
i post what happened yesterday while i was benchmarking EFLC with NEO HE 550W, 64x2 3800, and PNY GTX 465
http://www.hardwares...com/article/361
after the third or fourth time, the sound cut out. this build (that i speak of) has a an creative x-fi music and a pretty clean install of win xp service pack 3, with the HP bloat mostly removed
why should the sound cut out, when a dedicated brand new sound card is isntalled? exactly. the power supply couldn't power all that plus a 120mm antec fan, 80mm for the cpu blowhole, plus convention hard drive (80 GB wd sata) and optical nec 2500.

unplug (not remove) and extra hard drives or installed devices then retest?

yojo2
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#24

Posted 03 October 2011 - 07:23 AM

QUOTE (luceberg @ Monday, Oct 3 2011, 01:27)
I may be wrong though, please comment.

Yes, you are wrong. Regardless if he has Double Channel mems, his RAM is still DDR; that means you multiply 333MHz by 2. Thus, he already has ~667MHz mems.

luceberg
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#25

Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:12 AM

Ok, I stand corrected. I confused double data rate with dual channel mode. There is some performance improvement from single to dual channel provided by a matched pair though.

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#26

Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:41 AM

hey try out updating latest nvidia drivers..
sometimes few games start using integrated video card in place of dedicated..
for fixing this u need to update ur nvidia drivers from official nvidia site..
you also get some bug fixes after udating

james_root
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#27

Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE (unc13bud @ Sunday, Oct 2 2011, 15:19)
QUOTE
the weird thing with my problem is:
like all the games are doing their best to act like i didnt install a gtx 560 , they simply gave the same performance as 8800gt but with using gtx 560's %30-40-50 percent of power.


please post the manufacturer and specifications of your power supply

zotac gtx 560 1 gb..

also my ram is: 2gb kingston ddr2 667mhz and 1 gb kingston ddr2 667mhz (2 sticks)


today i re-installed 8800gt installed its drivers , this time i made sure that everything was deleted before i installed gtx 560. now the only difference is that it looks like mafia 2 stuttering is gone.

at gta 4:
when tex=medium and shadow=high it uses %30 of gpu result=20 fps
when tex=high and shadow: very high it uses %70-80 of gpu and results is= 20 fps again!

its so weird. shouldnt it use like %70-80 of gpu when textures are med and shadows are high

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#28

Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:29 PM

He asked the manufacturer of your PSU, not GPU. Post the Power Supply wattage and manufacturer please.

james_root
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#29

Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:29 PM

QUOTE (Stardrone @ Monday, Oct 3 2011, 08:29)
He asked the manufacturer of your PSU, not GPU. Post the Power Supply wattage and manufacturer please.

i wrote it at the first post

ocz 600w stealtxstream

Exxon
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#30

Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:36 PM

James, with different settings and same framerate, isn't it a bit obvious that your processor is bottlenecking?
The usage may be different, but it's still not fully used because it doesn't need to work harder due to the fact that your processor can't keep up.

You should've thought about this before you bought a new video card wink.gif




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