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Maybe buying this Suburban...

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Lurch
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#31

Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:10 PM

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Monday, Mar 19 2012, 13:51)
Edit: Also, it might be worth mentioning that if I find a Duramax, I'll be doing a NBS dash swap with it. And whenever I get around to it, I'd like to get a set of Ultra Baja Champs and some BFG All Terrains.

Lol. Yeah right. If you do fine one, you should probably hack off an arm and leg beforehand and bend over for the raping of a lifetime because everyone thinks they're worth their weight in gold.

5.9 12 valve Cummins can be had cheap because you can find whole trucks for next to nothing and they came in a million differet trucks. The medium duty stuff with 5.9's (little freightliner like FL60's, Ford F700-F800's, L7000's, various buses, etc). usually can be had really cheap (1500-3k) because your average joes don't like dealing with stuff that big. And then you can usually part out and scrap what's left and end up making money on them.

Dmaxes on the other hand are all only a decade old and the early ones had a lot of problems. Any of them are too new and exclusive to GM's that it's going to be very expensive to find one. Then you've got all the various problems with the electronics surrounding them, or the VGT turbos f*cking up and what not.

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#32

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:05 PM

I'm not expecting to find one within my price range, but I'll be damned if not going to look. At the local scrapyard, a complete engine is $300, plus a $50 core charge, no matter what it's from. They had a 7.3 Powerstroke a few months ago, I considered it but figured if I wasn't sticking with GM then I'd go for a Cummins. Seems like it would be a f*ck ton of work to put the Powerstroke in a GM, and then cry about it when it all blows up. So if I can find a Dmax even somewhere within four or five hours of here at a place with flat rates like that, I won't mind driving to go get it. That's just best-case-scenario though, I'll most likely end up with a 6bt.

Nothing wrong with wishful thinking as long as you don't lean on it.

Lurch
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#33

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:07 PM Edited by Lurch, 19 March 2012 - 10:10 PM.

6.5's should be easy and cheap. Not the biggest fan of them myself, but should be more or less bolt in for the burb. Or find an old 6.2 and throw a banks turbo on it and not deal with any electrics since it's a mechanical IDI.

They're at least more in line with a big block in terms of weight (800-900 lbs). A fully dressed cummins will be over 1200 and require some heavier duty parts up front to reliably hold it all. As I've told you before, the only IFS cummins burb I've seen had the heavy GVWR package that included the 1 ton's 9.25 diff and springs. Most straight axle them.

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#34

Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:20 PM

There's a couple trucks around the scrapyard with full floaters, not sure if any of them were 4x4s though. I need to head back over there and see if they've got anything new. I'd like to stay away from the 6.2/6.5. Even if the swap is a lot easier, it doesn't seem worth it to put forth the time and money to have half as much power as I have with the stock 350. I generally hear nothing but bad things about the 6.2/6.5. It's one thing to buy a truck that already has one, but "upgrading" to one is another thing.

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#35

Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:48 PM

True enough on the 6.2/6.5. The 6.2's I've driven were stupid slow. And the 6.5 had some work done to it but I've heard they're not that most reliable once you start strapping bigger turbos, injectors, and turning them up.

On the axles, really just need to find a full on 1 ton 4wd at a junkyard That way you can get the FF14 bolt rear and the 9.25 front and not to have to worry about chasing down different gear ratios.

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#36

Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:54 PM

Went to the scrapyard today looking for a cable for my CD changer, and for cab lights for the burb. After walking all the way to the back, where they've got the trucks, I spotted a 2000 Escalade right up front. Safe to say this distracted me from what I had came to get. The leather was all peeling off the steering wheel, and some moron snapped the wood trimmed dash bezel in half to get the radio out. (It's only clipped on, and pops out without even using any tools. It would have been easier to pop the dash off than it was to break it.) The heated leather seats were all ripped up, faded, and dirty, so I wasn't going to take them either. Luckily, all of the wood trim on the doors was intact, so I pulled it. By the time I got the last one off the sky was about black and lightning was starting to pop near by, so I left.

I got all the top trim four all four doors, and the wood bezels for the front doors that the window/lock controls are on, all for $25. I was pleased to see that the wood matches my NBS console perfectly, or at least it will after the dust and pollen is cleaned off.
user posted image

I'll have to trim down the bezels so I can keep the tweeters in my doors. I'll have to head back over there tomorrow and grab what I was supposed to today, and maybe the mirror and cluster out of the Escalade.

Lurch
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#37

Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:19 PM

Your wood there doesn't look very much look wood..

Should swap an Escalade front clip on. Might look kind of cool on a long wheelbase suburban.

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#38

Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:37 PM

QUOTE (Lurch @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 16:19)
Should swap an Escalade front clip on. Might look kind of cool on a long wheelbase suburban.

I thought about it. The front clip, along with all of the Cadillac body cladding is all good. I would need to cut/graft a little around the back wheels, but that's nothing I can't do. The real problem is that I would need extra pieces to extend it on the back doors. And the fact that all of that would add up and I would then NEED to get it painted and wouldn't have any money left over.

Oh, and the bezels are installed. Not sure what to do about the tweeters. Cut the new pieces and try to graft them together, move them to the A pillar like a NBS truck, or just say f*ck it I don't need them?
user posted image
user posted image


Upper door trim will be installed when I get a full day without rain.

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#39

Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE (leik oh em jeez! @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 16:37)
QUOTE (Lurch @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 16:19)
Should swap an Escalade front clip on. Might look kind of cool on a long wheelbase suburban.

I thought about it. The front clip, along with all of the Cadillac body cladding is all good. I would need to cut/graft a little around the back wheels, but that's nothing I can't do. The real problem is that I would need extra pieces to extend it on the back doors. And the fact that all of that would add up and I would then NEED to get it painted and wouldn't have any money left over.

You're getting way too complicated there. I've seen them with nothing but the front clip/fenders/hood on and they seriously look good. There's a pretty cool 1 ton 6.5 4wd 5 speed dually wrecker that runs around town with a 1st gen Escalade front and 19.5's and it looks great.

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#40

Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:00 PM Edited by leik oh em jeez!, 25 March 2012 - 12:46 AM.

Over-complicating things is how I roll. If I were to do it, I'd do it right and keep all the cladding. Make it look like an OBS ESV. I've seen OBS burbs with just the Caddy front clip, just looked a little ricey for my taste, didn't have the classy look of the Escalade.

Can't wait to get these installed. I might try to peel the leather insert off the caddy door panels while I'm there tomorrow. It would look better than the cloth, and would match the center console.
user posted imageuser posted image


Edit: Almost forgot to mention I saw a 1st gen Ram with a 12-valve at the scrapyard. Engine looked to be intact but but the truck had suffered a front end collision and the frame was bent like a pretzel so I'm not so sure on this being a donor truck. There were were several other 1st gen Rams I'll have to check out, and I spotted at least four NBS GM trucks that weren't there last time, so I'll have to check them out too.

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#41

Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:15 AM

The newer Escalade clip is the only one you have to graft the fenders on to make it match up, and even then, you can get kits with pre-made fenders.

The older front-end bolts right on if I remember correctly.
I was thinking about those, but then I saw some nice aftermarket GMC clips that looked really nice, bolt right on, and were way cheaper.
I like the way the GMC grilles look without the badge.

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#42

Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:30 AM

QUOTE (*MURDOC* @ Saturday, Mar 24 2012, 21:15)
The newer Escalade clip is the only one you have to graft the fenders on to make it match up, and even then, you can get kits with pre-made fenders.

I was talking about the body cladding for the back doors and over the rear wheels. It wouldn't line up because of the longer wheelbase of the suburban, so I'd have to graft the back piece and part of the rear door piece together to keep it looking factory.

The front end should be bolt on, but it's not really something I want to get into now. I'd much rather spend that money on a new power plant.
Speaking of which, is there anything specific I should be looking for in a donor truck? Any obvious signs of major engine problems to stay away from?

I'd hate to complete a swap and then find out that if I don't put another $1500 into the engine that it could self destruct at any time.

Lurch
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#43

Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:25 AM Edited by Lurch, 25 March 2012 - 03:44 AM.

If you're still wanting a 12 valve, stay away from the autos. They really don't do a good job of holding up to a stock cummins and take quite a bit of money to hold up (anywhere from 1500-3k which I think could be spent better elsewhere). On the 5 speed NV4500, the 5th gear nut likes to back itself out so most people weld it on.
user posted image
On the 6bt's themselves, there's a bolt under the inspection cover that likes to back out and will cause catostrophic failure if it does. You need to tighten it down with red locktite so it doesn't back out.
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also 2 more under the cam gear.
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All need red locktite.

The 5600 is better but only came behind 24 valves and most of them are pretty damn pricey. Same goes for G56's.

The 1st gen Cummins rams use some other Getrag 5 speed but I don't here much about them. Most people don't seem to like them for some reason. Don't really know what problems they have.

Your fancy center console will have to go for it to be decent (as in have a manual trans).


Remember there are tons of MD and HD trans options for a cummins that can be picked up for the price of a used 4500 or the price to build a 47RE, but most are huge trans so expect to have to cut some floor to fit them. They require going to an SAE#2 or 3 bellhousing. Which the clutch housings themselves are pretty damn big. They do make a baby 10 speed (RTO-6610) and a baby 13 speed (RTO6613) that don't require too much floor cutting.

user posted image
user posted image

That's assuming you know how to shift. If not, learn how.

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#44

Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:42 AM

Put that stick on it. ph34r.gif

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#45

Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:42 AM Edited by leik oh em jeez!, 25 March 2012 - 03:47 AM.

So if I did go with an auto, what would be best to hold up to the Cummins? They've got pretty good number of trucks/vans, I can have any transmission I want out of those for $120. I'd rather keep an auto in the Sub, manuals aren't much fun when you spend more time sitting at lights than you do actually moving. Especially when most of that little bit of time you do spend moving is waiting for some 90 year old woman to remember which pedal is the gas. I'll do what I have to though.

And thanks for the tips. I'll be back there tomorrow to see what else they have. I'd only glanced at about a third of the trucks before I found the Escalade, and didn't have time to do any more looking before it started storming.

Only manual I've driven was my Dad's 01 2500HD with a 496 & ZF6, was fairly easy. But not something I would want to drive in traffic everyday though.

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#46

Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:51 AM

An auto means putting high strength clutches and a billet converter in the stock 47RE, maybe a new valve body as well. It gets stupid expensive. They were made to go behind the 360 and the V10. They just don't hold up to the torque of the V10. Of course the same can be said of the 4500's as well.

The early 1st gen ram Cummins has the ole 3 speed 727 with the direct drive 1st. Of course, that's with some crazy high 3.07 gears. Probably won't work with chevy axles since the lowest you can get an FF14 bolt is 3.42. Not a very fast top speed or decent cruising rpm's without overdrive.

IMO, a diesel with an auto is beyond gay. Just look at murdoch's pickup. tounge.gif Of course, that's coming from my trucker mentality and someone that has probably seen more stop and go traffic driving a stick in a month than you will in 5 years. Lose your vagina.

You've also got a lot of Allisons out there, but most any with OD are stupid pricey and they'll still require cutting up your floor and ditching the center console.

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#47

Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:58 AM

So a 47RE would be my best bet on an auto? I'm guessing if the possible donor truck I found has the 3 speed, I could find a 47RE in a later 1st gen truck or 2nd gen Ram?
Don't get me wrong, I want a Diesel truck with a stick, just not as a DD.

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#48

Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:06 AM Edited by Lurch, 25 March 2012 - 04:13 AM.

Most likely. I was going to say you could have an adapter made for your 4l80E, but without a manual valve body, it just won't shift right with the cummins, since it has programmed shift points.


Still, I think you're in for a world of disappointment with a 47RE with some premature transmission failure. You'll have to throw money at it one way or another. Especially if you plan on turning up the fuel (and you will. everyone turns up the fuel). It's what happens when you have an industrial motor designed for a medium duty truck crammed into a light duty truck behind a light duty transmission originally intended for a low power gasoline engine. The big truck transmissions can handle ungodly amounts of power for a million miles at insane gvwr's.

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#49

Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:43 PM

My trip today was an overall failure. The only thing I got was the cable for my CD changer, and it's still doing the same thing it was before. confused.gif
There weren't any 3/4 or 1 ton GM trucks there this time, so no running lights or Duramax for me today. There were six NBS 1/2 ton trucks, which is better than the two they had last time, but most of them had the headlights up by the mirrors, or were rollovers and already had the 4.8/5.3s and interiors gutted.

The only mildly useful thing I did was snap a picture of the 6bt that might eventually make it's way to the Suburban. Sticker on the window said it was a 92 W200.
user posted image
There was a four speed manual behind it, but I'm a bit worried about possible damage to the front of the motor from the collision it was involved in.

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#50

Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:43 PM

Doubt it was a 4 speed in 92. Probably the early getrag 5 speed with 1st labeled L and 2-5 labeled 1-4. To be honest, I would get it if it's a wreck. Cummins are built like tanks. Pull it and inspect it for breakage. Might need to replace some accessory brackets but no biggie.

The whole collision thing means it's probably in decent mechanical shape instead of blown up or having serious mechanical problems of some sort.


I still don't get your phobia of driving a manual as a DD. Unless you're just a total poon with no balls. I've been doing it for 2 years with the bmw and I do more city than highway driving and it seems fine.

If you end up getting an exhaust brake that's rpm-dependent, a manual will definitely help you control that more.

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#51

Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:14 PM

One of the pulleys on the bottom looked like half of it was pushed into the engine, which is what had me worried. I'm guessing accessory brackets would need to be replaced to house the GM accessories anyways, so I wasn't very concerned about them. You're probably right on the transmission, the knob was missing on the shifter, so I'm not really sure.

It's not a phobia of a manual in a DD, just a preference to auto. If I lived somewhere with a normal amount of traffic, I wouldn't mind a stick in a DD, it's just that traffic around here is f*cking ridiculousness.

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#52

Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:21 PM

How much for the combo anyway? If you could get it cheap, I'd think it wouldn't matter what condition it was in.


Also, now that I think about it, you'll need a 14 bolt FF out of a 3/4 ton to be a direct bolt in as I think think the 1 tons might have different spring perch widths. If that doesn't bother you, you could always just use dodge axles (d60 front and d70 or 80 rear) and sas it.

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#53

Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:48 PM

If I keep my current combo for future use or to sell, the engine/transmission combo would be $470. But again, it would cost the same no matter what I get. So it wouldn't cost any more to pull this 6bt and then go pull a tranny out of another truck.

On the axles, I know the HDs have narrower frame rails, but the standard 1 tons should be the same as the rest of line up, or at least the 1 tons with single rear wheels should be the same, right?
Sadly both axles were already pulled from the 6bt truck. And like I said the scrapyard is currently lacking in ANY 3/4 or 1 ton GM trucks. Only non 1/2 tons they have are the W200, an early 90s F-350, and a late 70s F-350 ambulance. Even looking at the vans the only 2500 they had a was a GMC Savana with a 350.

On the subject of a sas, the only solid axle Suburban I've seen that hasn't been lefted 8+ inches is the badlander, which I off the top of my head I'm thinking he's got about 3" of lift. Do I need to lift it to make room for a solid axle? I'd really rather not lift this Suburban more than 3", and I'd prefer it if I didn't need to put the money into a full lift straight away. I've already had to cancel my plans of spending this money on an A+ certification.


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#54

Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:17 PM Edited by Lurch, 25 March 2012 - 09:20 PM.

You don't really need to lift any for the solid axle itself, but the cummins is such a tall engine, you might have oil pan clearance if you don't. Especially if you plan on sticking the axle in the stock location. Chevys have always been lower than fords or dodges since the IFS days started so frame height itself might be a little lower than ford or dodge so it might need some lift. Don't want the front diff running into the oil pan so search around on the subject.

If you want to stay IFS, you could probably pickup the whole 9.25 front from a 1 ton or a heavy 3/4 pretty cheap. People want too much for d60 fronts anway. IFS would definitely ride better.

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#55

Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:57 AM

Installing the keyless entry kit.
user posted image

Also got the Escalade leather and wood installed on all four doors.
user posted image

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#56

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

New 01/02 Denali/Escalde CD changer came in today.
Swapping the lower housings so the 01/02 changer sits properly in the 03-06 console:
user posted image

And all installed and working.
user posted image


Going back this weekend to get the heated mirrors, and the comp/temp rear view.

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#57

Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:26 PM Edited by leik oh em jeez!, 03 May 2012 - 11:30 PM.

Went and nabbed the Escalade front seats today. $78 for the pair with all the rails, mounts, and motors. This also allows me to use all four headrests, with the adjustables up front.

Old seat next to dirty caddy seat:
user posted image

One seat cleaned:
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Both installed:
user posted image

Ignore the current state of the center console. I left paint stripper on it to long and ended up having to smooth it out to make it look decent again. Going to get the back seats and more color coat this weekend. I'll paint the console, and put a thin coat over the seats to make them look smoother.
Also ignore the rips in the seats. I'll have them redone in a month or two.

The drivers seat plugged right in to the existing connector, so I tested it and was happy to see that all the motors still worked in it. Need to run one more wire for the heat, and then start wiring the passenger seat. Was also glad that sitting in the seat just long enough to adjust it helped with my back pain.

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#58

Posted 13 May 2012 - 06:30 AM Edited by Carlover325, 13 May 2012 - 07:55 AM.

The 1992-1999 Suburbans are my favorite generation. And you got a '97 K2500 for only $1800! I am so jealous! My uncle had a '96 1500 that had 480,000 miles on it until it was rear-ended. The car that rear-ended him went under the Suburban and insurance totaled it because of the damage. The motor was on it's last legs, though.

I saw on a previous post that you liked the look of the front clip with the sealed-beam headlights. And the people that told you sealed-beams suck, they were 100% correct. I know this because I have a 1999 Jeep Cherokee that came with the sealed-beams. But there is a fix.

You can buy aftermarket housings that use replaceable bulbs, therefore no longer sealed. They also come with a much better beam pattern. I purchased the Autopal headlight housings off EBAY for pretty cheap. It's just about $43 shipped for 2 housings.

Just stay away from the plastic-lensed (they call them diamond cut) with fake projectors. They have an absolutely horrible beam pattern. They are complete garbage. The best value for quality is the Autopal. Hella also makes a great conversion (go with the E-code, they are much better than the Vision Plus) but they are expensive, at about $100 for the set, and kind of hard to find. I've also heard really good things about the IPF kit found on quadratec.com.

Here's the link to the headlight housings:
http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1927wt_1185

I also purchased a heavy-duty headlight harness from LMC Truck's website. It's part # 36-3580 for the HD Harness. It is about $40 shipped.

So if you ever do decide to swap the front end, I just want you to be assured that you do not have to be stuck with crappy sealed-beams.

This is a crappy phone pic of my beam pattern after the upgrades (sorry no before pics):
user posted image

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#59

Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:27 AM

Thanks for posting that, I'll have to check those out when I've got a little more cash. >.<

Anyway, I snapped a few reference pictures of my Suburban earlier today (I'm making one for IV) and figured I'd post a couple here as they turned out fairly nice. Either that or I just love looking at things to see how they work...
user posted image
user posted image

And I got the Escalade back seats in. I'll get a light coat of Classic Coat on them when I've got more than $34 in my wallet.
user posted image

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#60

Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:09 AM

looks comfy enough.




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