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Religious Views

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Emhyr
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#61

Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:08)
QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:04)
I believe there is a god cause there's no logic if there isn't.

How is there no logic?

Umm,for me there isn't,don't know for you.

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#62

Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:48 PM

Just look at Quantum Mechanics for complete lack of logic in nature.

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#63

Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:57 PM

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 15:48)
Just look at Quantum Mechanics for complete lack of logic in nature.

Quantum mechanics is the most logical thing there is. It's simple linear algebra and nothing else.

Unfortunately it's wrong for that very reason. Nature is nowhere near as neat. So your point does not really suffer.

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#64

Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:36)
QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:08)
QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:04)
I believe there is a god cause there's no logic if there isn't.

How is there no logic?

Umm,for me there isn't,don't know for you.

Umh, that's not a real argument. You are free to think that way though, just saying because this is Debates & Discussion.

Emhyr
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#65

Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:17 PM Edited by Username482, 29 August 2011 - 08:20 PM.

QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:58)
QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:36)
QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:08)
QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:04)
I believe there is a god cause there's no logic if there isn't.

How is there no logic?

Umm,for me there isn't,don't know for you.

Umh, that's not a real argument. You are free to think that way though, just saying because this is Debates & Discussion.


Umm what will you get when I give you my explanation? You know really good that I can't prove there is a god.I have my reasons why I believe and that's enough for me.I don't need geeky scientists to explain me why I shouldn't believe in god.And I see that you trying to do just that.I accepted the fact that sometimes we can't prove everything.If god created us why would he let us to do so? I understand people who doesn't believe in god,but I don't ask for their reasons,it's their private thing..If you want that religious people keep their religion for themselves,why can't atheists do the same?

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#66

Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 17:17)
QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:58)
QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:36)
QUOTE (goin-god @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:08)
QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:04)
I believe there is a god cause there's no logic if there isn't.

How is there no logic?

Umm,for me there isn't,don't know for you.

Umh, that's not a real argument. You are free to think that way though, just saying because this is Debates & Discussion.


Umm what will you get when I give you my explanation? You know really good that I can't prove there is a god.I have my reasons why I believe and that's enough for me.I don't need geeky scientists to explain me why I shouldn't believe in god.And I see that you trying to do just that.I accepted the fact that sometimes we can't prove everything.If god created us why would he let us to do so? I understand people who doesn't believe in god,but I don't ask for their reasons,it's their private thing..If you want that religious people keep their religion for themselves,why can't atheists do the same?

Where did I say that I wanted to change your opinion? In fact I said, and I quote myself:
QUOTE
You are free to think that way


All I meant is that this is the Debates & Discussion board, and you should give an argument to back up your opinions. That's all. Im not attacking you or your beliefs, nor do I care about them. Just telling you whats expected in this topic.

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#67

Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:31 PM

QUOTE (K^2 @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 19:57)
QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 15:48)
Just look at Quantum Mechanics for complete lack of logic in nature.

Quantum mechanics is the most logical thing there is. It's simple linear algebra and nothing else.

Unfortunately it's wrong for that very reason. Nature is nowhere near as neat. So your point does not really suffer.

Yeah I meant it's illogical largely due to mathematics being difficulty to unify with everyday nature. However, you must admit phenomenon such as particle duality is illogical nay crazy.

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#68

Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 16:31)
However, you must admit phenomenon such as particle duality is illogical nay crazy.

Not at all. You just think that a particle should behave a certain way. You don't really have any reason to think that, because you've never seen or otherwise experience a particle, but you picture throwing a rock at a wall, and when particles behave differently start calling it crazy. It's not crazy. It's physics.

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#69

Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE (El Zilcho @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 21:48)
Just look at Quantum Mechanics for complete lack of logic in nature.

Quantum Mechanics is awesome. It's not illogical at all. It's just that most of the stuff it talks about go way over our heads. But I don't think it's very complicated. It just deals with things in nature in a way you would never imagine.

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#70

Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:50 PM

Islam's fundamental concept is a rigorous monotheism, called tawhīd. God is described in chapter 112 of the Qur'an as:"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him." Muslims repudiate the Christian doctrine of the Trinity and divinity of Jesus, comparing it to polytheism, but accept Jesus as a prophet. In Islam, God is beyond all comprehension and Muslims are not expected to visualize God. God is described and referred to by certain names or attributes, the most common being Al-Rahmān, meaning "The Compassionate" and Al-Rahīm, meaning "The Merciful".
Muslims believe that creation of everything in the universe is brought into being by God’s sheer command “‘Be’ and so it is.” and that the purpose of existence is to worship God. He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him. There are no intermediaries, such as clergy, to contact God who states “We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein”
Allāh is the term with no plural or gender used by Muslims and Arabic speaking Christians and Jews meaning the one God, while ʾilāh (Arabic: إله‎) is the term used for a deity or a god in general. Other non-Arab Muslims might use different names as much as Allah, for instance "Tanrı" in Turkish or "Khodā" in Persian.

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#71

Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:50)
He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him.

Well there you go. Either your god doesn't exist, or he doesn't give a sh*t and he's just f*ckin' with us. Tell me something. Why do you believe in all that?

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#72

Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:16 PM

When I say crazy/illogical I mean relative to us, the very fact it goes right over our primitive understanding is why it's so crazy to us. Changing state when measured, it's fascinating and crazy, almost as if it's changing because it can't exist in two states, so it chooses to be one. Don't get me wrong, I love it. It's amazing, far more interesting to me than any religion. But it is inherently illogical to our feeble understandings.


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#73

Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:26 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 22:54)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:50)
He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him.

Well there you go. Either your god doesn't exist, or he doesn't give a sh*t and he's just f*ckin' with us. Tell me something. Why do you believe in all that?

Nope, he always knows what you are doing, saying, hearing.

It is my religion.

And God doesn't do your sh*t for you, he shows the way.


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#74

Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:28 AM Edited by GTAvanja, 30 August 2011 - 09:32 AM.

QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 08:26)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 22:54)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:50)
He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him.

Well there you go. Either your god doesn't exist, or he doesn't give a sh*t and he's just f*ckin' with us. Tell me something. Why do you believe in all that?

Nope, he always knows what you are doing, saying, hearing.

It is my religion.

And God doesn't do your sh*t for you, he shows the way.

So you have no rational reason to believe other than the fact that it's your religion? Well I know it's your religion, but why do you accept it?

God clearly doesn't answer prayers, and he clearly doesn't show people the way. Or are you telling me god told those terrorists to blow themselves up? They prayed to god, they asked him to show them the way. Well not exactly. God doesn't show you the way. He doesn't exist. You show yourself the way. Terrorists use god as an excuse to do the sh*t they do. They genuinely believe god told them to do that. God does whatever you need him to do. That's what he is. God is the ultimate excuse for not having to take responsibility for your actions. It's a pretty awesome deal for cowards and idiots.

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#75

Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:55 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 09:28)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 08:26)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 22:54)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:50)
He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him.

Well there you go. Either your god doesn't exist, or he doesn't give a sh*t and he's just f*ckin' with us. Tell me something. Why do you believe in all that?

Nope, he always knows what you are doing, saying, hearing.

It is my religion.

And God doesn't do your sh*t for you, he shows the way.

So you have no rational reason to believe other than the fact that it's your religion? Well I know it's your religion, but why do you accept it?

God clearly doesn't answer prayers, and he clearly doesn't show people the way. Or are you telling me god told those terrorists to blow themselves up? They prayed to god, they asked him to show them the way. Well not exactly. God doesn't show you the way. He doesn't exist. You show yourself the way. Terrorists use god as an excuse to do the sh*t they do. They genuinely believe god told them to do that. God does whatever you need him to do. That's what he is. God is the ultimate excuse for not having to take responsibility for your actions. It's a pretty awesome deal for cowards and idiots.

I think he meant that God showed the way by the prophecies in the past, and their stories, and then people learn from that and guide themselves to the right path, but whatever their path is, it was destined by God.

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#76

Posted 30 August 2011 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:55)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 09:28)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 08:26)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 22:54)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:50)
He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him.

Well there you go. Either your god doesn't exist, or he doesn't give a sh*t and he's just f*ckin' with us. Tell me something. Why do you believe in all that?

Nope, he always knows what you are doing, saying, hearing.

It is my religion.

And God doesn't do your sh*t for you, he shows the way.

So you have no rational reason to believe other than the fact that it's your religion? Well I know it's your religion, but why do you accept it?

God clearly doesn't answer prayers, and he clearly doesn't show people the way. Or are you telling me god told those terrorists to blow themselves up? They prayed to god, they asked him to show them the way. Well not exactly. God doesn't show you the way. He doesn't exist. You show yourself the way. Terrorists use god as an excuse to do the sh*t they do. They genuinely believe god told them to do that. God does whatever you need him to do. That's what he is. God is the ultimate excuse for not having to take responsibility for your actions. It's a pretty awesome deal for cowards and idiots.

I think he meant that God showed the way by the prophecies in the past, and their stories, and then people learn from that and guide themselves to the right path, but whatever their path is, it was destined by God.

You can't base your entire existence on centuries old book written by a bunch of people who didn't know 2% of stuff we know today. Everything those people knew about the world is in their holy books. We've come a long way since then. Societies change. Morality changes. Everything changes. And when things change, humans adapt to those changes. That's evolution.
Islam is one of 3 Abrahamic religions. Which means that Islam is just an updated Judaism mixed with Christianity and changed to fit the needs of people who created it. That was 1400 years ago. A lot has change since then. Look at Islamic countries. They are among the least developed and least civilized countries in the world. They didn't adapt. And now they live in sh*t and dirt, bombing people for nothing, dying from diseases we can cure with a few bucks. If their god exists, he's probably retarded.

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#77

Posted 30 August 2011 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 10:48)
QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:55)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 09:28)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 08:26)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Aug 29 2011, 22:54)
QUOTE (vertical limit @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 00:50)
He is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls Him.

Well there you go. Either your god doesn't exist, or he doesn't give a sh*t and he's just f*ckin' with us. Tell me something. Why do you believe in all that?

Nope, he always knows what you are doing, saying, hearing.

It is my religion.

And God doesn't do your sh*t for you, he shows the way.

So you have no rational reason to believe other than the fact that it's your religion? Well I know it's your religion, but why do you accept it?

God clearly doesn't answer prayers, and he clearly doesn't show people the way. Or are you telling me god told those terrorists to blow themselves up? They prayed to god, they asked him to show them the way. Well not exactly. God doesn't show you the way. He doesn't exist. You show yourself the way. Terrorists use god as an excuse to do the sh*t they do. They genuinely believe god told them to do that. God does whatever you need him to do. That's what he is. God is the ultimate excuse for not having to take responsibility for your actions. It's a pretty awesome deal for cowards and idiots.

I think he meant that God showed the way by the prophecies in the past, and their stories, and then people learn from that and guide themselves to the right path, but whatever their path is, it was destined by God.

You can't base your entire existence on centuries old book written by a bunch of people who didn't know 2% of stuff we know today. Everything those people knew about the world is in their holy books. We've come a long way since then. Societies change. Morality changes. Everything changes. And when things change, humans adapt to those changes. That's evolution.
Islam is one of 3 Abrahamic religions. Which means that Islam is just an updated Judaism mixed with Christianity and changed to fit the needs of people who created it. That was 1400 years ago. A lot has change since then. Look at Islamic countries. They are among the least developed and least civilized countries in the world. They didn't adapt. And now they live in sh*t and dirt, bombing people for nothing, dying from diseases we can cure with a few bucks. If their god exists, he's probably retarded.

I really respected you till I read this really.

What makes you think that Islam is an updated Judism mixed with Christianity? Also being the least civilized countries doesn't mean that it has a relation with the religion necessarily.

May I ask you to tell me what was your religion before you became an atheist?

Emhyr
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#78

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 10:48)
Look at Islamic countries. They are among the least developed and least civilized countries in the world. They didn't adapt. And now they live in sh*t and dirt, bombing people for nothing, dying from diseases we can cure with a few bucks.

What countries? African? Well they weren't developed and civilized before Islam neither.Arabian countries? Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? Iran? UAE? Oman? Jemen? ...and Libya,Irak,Syria before wars and rebels. Maybe they aren't the best countries to live in because of human rights,but they are developed and very rich. confused.gif

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#79

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:18 AM

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:52)
Also being the least civilized countries doesn't mean that it has a relation with the religion necessarily.

It's also not correct. Of the 10 countries languishing at the bottom of the Development Index, only three- Niger, Chad and Mali- are majority Muslim. All the rest are Christinan.

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#80

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:31 AM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:18)
QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:52)
Also being the least civilized countries doesn't mean that it has a relation with the religion necessarily.

It's also not correct. Of the 10 countries languishing at the bottom of the Development Index, only three- Niger, Chad and Mali- are majority Muslim. All the rest are Christinan.

What about the other seven? sigh.gif

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#81

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:34 AM Edited by sivispacem, 30 August 2011 - 11:42 AM.

QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 12:31)
QUOTE (sivispacem @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:18)
QUOTE (PrometheusX @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 11:52)
Also being the least civilized countries doesn't mean that it has a relation with the religion necessarily.

It's also not correct. Of the 10 countries languishing at the bottom of the Development Index, only three- Niger, Chad and Mali- are majority Muslim. All the rest are Christinan.

What about the other seven? sigh.gif

Six Christian of varying denomination, one traditional Animist.

Edit- Edited to add, I meant GTAVanja is incorrect in saying that Muslim countries are the least developed, as the majority of the least developed nations are primarily Christian.

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#82

Posted 30 August 2011 - 02:09 PM Edited by SweatyPa1ms, 30 August 2011 - 02:13 PM.

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 10:48)
You can't base your entire existence on centuries old book written by a bunch of people who didn't know 2% of stuff we know today. Everything those people knew about the world is in their holy books. We've come a long way since then. Societies change. Morality changes. Everything changes. And when things change, humans adapt to those changes. That's evolution.

^ This.

I think religion can teach good morals but that can be done in other ways. The most significant things to come out of religion is corruption and war icon13.gif notify.gif .

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#83

Posted 30 August 2011 - 02:42 PM

QUOTE (SweatyPa1ms @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 15:09)
I think religion can teach good morals but that can be done in other ways. The most significant things to come out of religion is corruption and war icon13.gif notify.gif .

Name a single war in the last 50 years which was a direct product of religious activity.

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#84

Posted 30 August 2011 - 03:34 PM

Arabs poor?

In general, just imagine walking down in knightsbridge in summer with out Arabs, they are f*cking everywhere, who do you think owns Harrods at the moment, Qatar.

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#85

Posted 30 August 2011 - 03:39 PM Edited by GTAvanja, 30 August 2011 - 03:56 PM.

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 16:42)
QUOTE (SweatyPa1ms @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 15:09)
I think religion can teach good morals but that can be done in other ways.  The most significant things to come out of religion is corruption and war  icon13.gif   notify.gif .

Name a single war in the last 50 years which was a direct product of religious activity.

Well, religion is never the reason to start the war. Religion is mostly an excuse governments and other rich greedy bastards present to the people. Remember when George Idiot Bush said that god told him to attack Iraq? Well he could have told him there are no weapons of mass destruction while he was at it. Wars are fought for personal interests of whoever the f*ck has the power to start a war.

And I said among the least developed countries, not necessarily THE least developed. But I didn't phrase it right. I was referring to cultural development, human rights and science. You can build tall buildings made out of gold if you have enough money, but who's gonna live in them if you punish people to death just because they say something bad about Islam. If I said that Allah was retarded in one of Islamic countries in the middle east I wouldn't be typing this message.

QUOTE (PrometheusX)
What makes you think that Islam is an updated Judism mixed with Christianity? Also being the least civilized countries doesn't mean that it has a relation with the religion necessarily.

First of all, if history thought us anything, it's that religion stops progress. Islam used to be way ahead of Christianity in every way up until the Renaissance era in 14th century. I don't know what happened, I guess the decline of Caliphate had something to do with it. Arabic history isn't my thing.
And Islam is an updated Judaism. In Islam you have Adam and Eve, Angel Gabriel (although they call him Jibril), Jesus is a prophet, Noah's flood happened etc. They have their own interpretations of Biblical events. Islam is one of 3 Abrahamic religions. If Judaism never existed, neither would Christianity or Islam. They are connected.
QUOTE (PrometheusX)
May I ask you to tell me what was your religion before you became an atheist?

I was lucky enough not to have religion showed down my throat. I was never religious. I had a choice to figure it out myself. And it just never made any sense to me.

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#86

Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 15:39)

And Islam is an updated Judaism. In Islam you have Adam and Eve, Angel Gabriel (although they call him Jibril), Jesus is a prophet, Noah's flood happened etc. They have their own interpretations of Biblical events. Islam is one of 3 Abrahamic religions. If Judaism never existed, neither would Christianity or Islam. They are connected.



LOL of course they are connected,these books are from the same god! Injil (Bible),Tawrat (Torah) and last book is Quran.It's triology. tounge.gif They all basicly telling the same thing...over and over again.The difference is that books were sent to different prophets.The only problem is that Muslims thinks that Jusus was a prophet and Christians don't.But we can't understand what happened back then,so I don't give much attention to these hapenings.

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#87

Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:27 PM

My religous beliefs? I have none, that was worth posting...

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#88

Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:03 PM Edited by sivispacem, 30 August 2011 - 06:19 PM.

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 16:39)
Well, religion is never the reason to start the war. Religion is mostly an excuse governments and other rich greedy bastards present to the people. Remember when George Idiot Bush said that god told him to attack Iraq? Well he could have told him there are no weapons of mass destruction while he was at it. Wars are fought for personal interests of whoever the f*ck has the power to start a war.

Quite right, religion is often used as excuse or a motivator in conflict, but war cannot directly be attributed to religion- not in the modern world. Religion is just one of a great selection of possible tools that a savvy military leader could use to rile up his or her people against a common enemy. In that sense, it's no different from nationality, creed, colour or tribal status.

There are also many important reasons why many Muslim-dominated nations seem to have lower standards of life than in the West. One, the ideas of "rights" and the suchlike are distinctly Western, and to try and apply them to nations without their population's blessing or credence is just wrong. There's a distinction between a nation where, for instance, police-state torture and murder are the happy norm- condoned or at very least accepted by the population, and a nation in which large proportions of the population rise up against or resent such actions. Secondly, the unhappy legacy of colonialism; of the Muslim nations traditionally seen as "least developed" in Western eyes, particularly those in sub-Saharan Africa, most are ex-Western colonies- whilst I won't dwell on the he-said-she-said hearsay about whether colonialism is responsible for all the world's problems, the simple fact of the matter is when the empires collapsed, the enforced, rigid and Western-inspired social order that accompanied them collapsed too. Basically, much of the world is currently going through an equivalent of the Dark Ages. But with globalisation to cause even more economic butt-hurt and to permit the rest of the world to take advantage of the position of weakness. Finally, Islam never had an "enlightenment" or an "industrial revolution"- modern, globalised society with all of its concerns on human rights, ethics and morality has been thrust on them.

It's also worth remarking that many of the "worst" Muslim nations for human rights abuses, individual disparity and lack of freedom are not states where Islam has been a long-standing element of the fabric of life, but instead places where Islam has been embraced over the last five decades or so.

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#89

Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 14:42)
QUOTE (SweatyPa1ms @ Tuesday, Aug 30 2011, 15:09)
I think religion can teach good morals but that can be done in other ways.  The most significant things to come out of religion is corruption and war  icon13.gif   notify.gif .

Name a single war in the last 50 years which was a direct product of religious activity.

Religion has been around longer than 50 years.

Like you said, wars are fought for a variety of reasons the majority of the time. Like the current "war on terrorism notify.gif " in Iraq/Afghanistan. Does anyone know the real reason why we put troops on the ground? Oil? New world order? 9/11? Liberation?

Only the guys at the top know the truth.

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#90

Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:20 AM

Nah. Oil was just part of the cover. Second layer for people who see past the "humanitarian" reasons. If they wanted oil, troops would be in and out in a month. The current "state of war" is convenient because it gives administrative branch extra powers, so they needed wars they can drag on. It's all about power. Just like any other war. Religion is not so much the cause for wars as one of the weapons.




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