Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Religious Views

327 replies to this topic
Tyler
  • Tyler

    omnia vincit amor

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 22 Mar 2009
  • None
  • Best Poem 2014
    Best Story 2014
    Most Talented Writer 2014
    Newcomer of the Year 2010

#271

Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:35 AM

I went from a deist perspective to a more atheist alignment over the course of several months, but at this point I'm fully atheist/agnostic. For me it's not a question of worship or salvation or damnation. Most of my life was secular, and aside from everyone around me being Christian/Catholic I never really talked with 'truly' religious people.

For a while I went to several churches in search of answers and to feel the presence of the God we learn about in the bible but it just never happened. As such, I felt no need to call myself a Christian after a while. Went through that period of deism simply because God was a concept that had been ingrained in my mind since the beginning, and then finally stopped putting him in to the equation recently.

Life and science alone are enough to make me appreciate and marvel at the wonders of the world we live in, and while I can find comfort in doubt I understand the need (or rather the ingrained patterns) for gods and worship in their life.

Straznicy
  • Straznicy

    Laugh at your problems

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2008
  • Scotland

#272

Posted 29 January 2012 - 04:16 AM

Raised in a lapsed Catholic household. I've received my Confirmation, and went to church until I was about 9. I have never really had faith in the Catholic notion of God, nor in the substantiality of the Bible's events. There's certain aspects Catholicism that still influence my life; I have always had a strong love for Catholic imagery and art, I still seldom attend mass for familial reasons and I still feel the Catholic faith is part of my heritage.

In high school, I went through a strongly atheistic stage, that was somewhat militant at its height. My school pushed a strong Catholic agenda, which consistently provoked me. I was the bane of Religious Education teachers, I would attack Christianity at any opportunity. I have mellowed significantly since though.

I would not even term myself an atheist anymore. It's struck me as an illogical way to categorise oneself. There very well could be a divine being pulling the cosmic strings, we cannot disprove it presently; therefore it is a possibility. Even then, concepts of some level of consciousness and/or spirituality permeating humanity and life generally does not seem all that unlikely to me. Certain experiences I have had, conversations, thoughts... they all suggested this to me in an inexplicable way. Something binds us and guides us that we cannot comprehend, I think.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    he's going to get into the ring and put boots to asses

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#273

Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:37 PM

QUOTE (playaindahood @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 02:26)
I'm atheist. i'm a godless human being just like the other 7 billion+ people on this planet. I'd like to heard good evidence for god which doesn't involve blind faith, or "miracles." every religion wants to attach some sort of miracle to their god as proof for god's existence. people are so desperate it's sad. They know faith alone isn't good enough so they have to desperately grab at the good things that happen to justify god's existence.

Can you prove God is not there?

Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#274

Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:17 PM

If there is an entity called 'God' and he is at least partially responsible for the teachings in the numerous religious texts of the world, doesn't the attempt to please him seem rather futile? If I call God a coward, all his followers seem to do is remind me of the existence of Hell. As if they can scare me into loving him. Indeed, the obsessive, contradictory laws of Moses and his descendants seem to be naught but the cruel games of an overgrown, sadistic child.

If you acknowledge that the Christian God is real and acknowledge his numerous atrocities, can you honestly say that you love him? Or respect him? And if you do neither of these things, isn't it painfully obvious that you worship him out of dread?
Worshiping a being out of fear, a being who wants you to screw up, wants you to lapse. Like the loan shark goading his victim into more and more debt with the easy smile of a friend but the savage expectation of a beating in the future bubbling away in his pea sized brain.

Gods existence, the existence of a cosmic order, a divine plan. Makes us all puppets. Answer me this, will you? If God is omnipotent, why does he need this magical plan by which we excuse his every sin? Unlimited power means that plans are an irrelevance, you can simply act upon any whim which takes your fancy. Yet we are expected to believe that this incredible being who created man and beast alike is now required to string us along a certain path because of this hazily defined 'scheme'.

No, there is no plan, no grand design, no ultimate objective. We are his puppets, he pulls on our strings and enjoys watching us dance and trip and tangle ourselves in one mess after another. The faithful see the strings, know they are being mocked, but carry on the charade because the puppeteer is so big and so terrifying they dare not stop.
I tell you, such an entity does not deserve worship. Such an entity does not deserve respect. And such an entity as God certainly does not deserve love.
He is our enemy, his very existence makes him the enemy of humanity. He is the foe of endeavour, the bane of free thought, the scourge of both emotion and reason.

I don't ask for proof of his existence, rather I would ask his acolytes for one single reason why I should love and adore this being. I want a single reason why I should love God. Anyone?

Irviding
  • Irviding

    he's going to get into the ring and put boots to asses

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#275

Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE

I don't ask for proof of his existence, rather I would ask his acolytes for one single reason why I should love and adore this being. I want a single reason why I should love God. Anyone?

Your posts are very well-thought out, and I am intrigued while reading them. For me, I believe in God. I don't need to go to church to do that, I am happy to do it on my own time, by myself. I just was questioning the argument people use to not believe in god, which is 'prove to me he exists'. The way I see it is, there's no way to prove he does exist, or that he doesn't exist. You choose to believe what you want, but don't base it on some notion that you know he exists or doesn't.

GTA_stu
  • GTA_stu

    DILF in waiting

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 22 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Unfunniest Member 2013
    Unfunniest Member 2012

#276

Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:14 AM

A couple of months ago I was walking with a few friends through univeristy, and there was a group of people handing out pamphlets about Jesus. Now they weren't properly preaching, they'd only go up to people with a friendly hello and ask if they could tell us about what they believe. One of my friends being the argumentative type that he is started to talk with one of them and got in a bit of a debate.

Another one came up to me and started talking to me about it. I didn't actually ask her about what particular part of christianity she adhered to, but she seemed to worship Jesus rather than God. From what I gathered they did believe in God, but the main focus was Jesus. They believed he was such a great person and role model and so followed his teachings.

I found it quite interesting to talk to this person, and was there for a good 30 minutes. I always had a view that religious people were worshipping a non-existant being, and kind of leaned towards what Typhus described in his post. Why would you want to worship something or someone who seems so horrible, and the whole idea of worshipping someone to appease them and avoid their wrath is a bit absurd. The whole idea of religion in that context is absurd.

But the idea of worshipping or revering a person hadn't really entered my head. It seems much more acceptable to me than worshipping a God like in the bible at least. In fact it also loses a lot of the negative things associated with worshipping a God because it's these peoples choice to worship or idolise, rather than feeling it necessary or an obligation which if not complied with would lead to horrific consequences.

AB0333
  • AB0333

    ___________

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 29 Jul 2009

#277

Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:37 AM

@ Typhus : I agree with Irviding, your post really made me think.

Well, before all I have to say that I believe in God, but the same thing has came through my mind lots of times, I asked myself same thing.

About that puppet thing, well, look at it like this:
We all are here on purpose. No one wasn't born for no reason. The reason why we live is a major test. God created us to test us. Since you're given ability of free will, He wanted to see how will each of us react and behave. At one hand, you have drinking, swearing, sexual pleasures and other vices which are really attractive to all of us. At the other hand, you have abstinence of all kinds of dirty habits and doings and a clean life. The first one is more attractive to all of us (that is in human's nature) but that's the point! Endeavor to stay away from dirt.
So, we all were given an ability of free will, so in my opinion, because of this, I don't think that any of us has right to say "We are God's toys, He's doing whatever he wants of us!". No, we are those who make toys of ourselves.

Now, why should you love God.

Alright, I'll start from beginning.

What are chances to get born as human? Just as you have born as a human, you could have been born as an animal, plant or bacteria. How much were you lucky? Pretty lucky, just like all of us here.

Do you have all limbs on your body? If yes, you could have been born without any of them!

Are you healthy? If yes, you couldn't been born unhealthy, and visiting hospitals from early childhood.

Do you have a home? A bed, safe place to sleep? Mother? Father? Food? Things that make you happy? If you do, if He wanted to, he could have leave you without anything!

So, that's why you should love Him. Thank God for what you have, pray Him to get you on the right path.

God doesn't want to screw us up. He's testing us. He gave us ability to choose what will we be and he prepared a punishment for those who live profligate way of life, and an award for those who keep themselves away from this-world pleasures and those who thank, praise and respect Him and do things He told us to do.

It's your choice.

Robinski
  • Robinski

    Under a fluorescent sky

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2007

#278

Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:51 AM

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 00:37)
Do you have all limbs on your body? If yes, you could have been born without any of them!

Are you healthy? If yes, you couldn't been born unhealthy, and visiting hospitals from early childhood.

Do you have a home? A bed, safe place to sleep? Mother? Father? Food? Things that make you happy? If you do, if He wanted to, he could have leave you without anything!

So, that's why you should love Him. Thank God for what you have, pray Him to get you on the right path.

How's he plan on stopping me having all those good things? By intervening, just because I don't believe? That's pretty petty. And for someone who's supposed to be worthy of unconditional love, I have higher standards than "petty". As for people who are born with ill health or whatever, why would a benevolent deity do that? Surely they are without sin at birth?

@Some above discussion. I quite like the idea of revering a man, whether he's fictitious or not. It plays into the idea that God is not something external, but simply the idea of an ideal person. They say the kingdom of god is within man, I quite like the idea of that; we all have the potential to be the best man can be, but aren't so because we are, ironically, human.

The Yokel
  • The Yokel

    First of his name

  • The Yardies
  • Joined: 30 Mar 2007
  • Jamaica

#279

Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:52 AM

@AB0333: You have to be trolling. No one can actually say all that stuff and mean it. That is so f*ckin' stupid. Whatever the case may be, please leave.

GTA_stu
  • GTA_stu

    DILF in waiting

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 22 Feb 2011
  • United-Kingdom
  • Unfunniest Member 2013
    Unfunniest Member 2012

#280

Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:42 AM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 00:52)
@AB0333: You have to be trolling. No one can actually say all that stuff and mean it. That is so f*ckin' stupid. Whatever the case may be, please leave.

How about you leave? The guy was just stating his opinion, if you don't agree with it then fine but don't resort to petty insults and childish name calling. He articulated his view point pretty well I thought even though I disagreed with most of it.


Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#281

Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:44 AM

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 00:37)
Now, why should you love God.

Alright, I'll start from beginning.

What are chances to get born as human? Just as you have born as a human, you could have been born as an animal, plant or bacteria. How much were you lucky? Pretty lucky, just like all of us here.

Do you have all limbs on your body? If yes, you could have been born without any of them!

Are you healthy? If yes, you couldn't been born unhealthy, and visiting hospitals from early childhood.

Do you have a home? A bed, safe place to sleep? Mother? Father? Food? Things that make you happy? If you do, if He wanted to, he could have leave you without anything! 

So, that's why you should love Him. Thank God for what you have, pray Him to get you on the right path.

Again, you people use threats to try and force me to love this creature.
I could be a cripple, I could be an ant, I could be homeless. All you've done is list the cruelties that this supposedly loving God dishes out to others. In what world do you construe the misfortune of others as a sign of love? What a perverse, warped idea.

Again, I ask you to give me real reasons to love him. Not threats, not a list of all the morbid sh*t he could do to me, reasons why I should love someone who threatens me with eternal - ETERNAL - torture if I don't.

You see how fragile it all is? Do you see how easily he could have screwed me over? The fact that he didn't is of no consequence. That he has the power to do so is what makes us puppets.
The problem is this, if God exists we are merely the vanity project of this immortal, brutish tyrant. If he doesn't? We're just hairless monkies prattling around a planet and waiting to die.

Any 'reason' for our existence must be one without God. Because his presence makes us nothing but a whim, something forged out of boredom.

AB0333
  • AB0333

    ___________

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 29 Jul 2009

#282

Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:34 PM Edited by AB0333, 30 January 2012 - 07:58 PM.

I don't know... believe what you want. I, personally, believe that we are those who are given the choice, not monkeys waiting to be raped.
You and GTAvanja, you're conscious that you have choice, you only use these words as an excuse to get away from reality, to get away from obedience to God. And that's what cowards do. You just don't want to face the truth. You want to live profligately, without restrictions and denials.
You want a reason without threats why should you love God? Dear dude, your life, your birth is result of God's love to you. That's the biggest gift God can give to human. God loves you, retaliate that love to Him, be thankful. There is your reason.
Unbelievers will burn in hellish fire, their bodies will inflate, then they will die and then they will be given a life again and they will be thrown into fire again, it will go in circle and it will never end. Even then, you can't call yourself a puppet, because you were given a choice. You have sapience, you are the one who chooses which end will you have.
You have everything, you have no reason to be unhappy. Why don't you want to accept the truth? Why do you still want to be disobedient?

You're so wrong... so badly wrong... but whatever. That's what they want. And they succeeded. I hope you will see your mistakes until it's late.

I'm leaving, for your and GTAvanja's love.

Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#283

Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:13 PM

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 19:34)
I don't know... believe what you want. I, personally, believe that we are those who are given the choice, not monkeys waiting to be raped.
You and GTAvanja, you're conscious that you have choice, you only use these words as an excuse to get away from reality, to get away from obedience to God. And that's what cowards do. You just don't want to face the truth. You want to live profligately, without restrictions and denials.
You want a reason without threats why should you love God? Dear dude, your life, your birth is result of God's love to you. That's the biggest gift God can give to human. God loves you, retaliate that love to Him, be thankful. There is your reason.
Unbelievers will burn in hellish fire, their bodies will inflate, then they will die and then they will be given a life again and they will be thrown into fire again, it will go in circle and it will never end. Even then, you can't call yourself a puppet, because you were given a choice. You have sapience, you are the one who chooses which end will you have.
You have everything, you have no reason to be unhappy. Why don't you want to accept the truth? Why do you still want to be disobedient?

You're so wrong... so badly wrong... but whatever. That's what they want. And they succeeded. I hope you will see your mistakes until it's late.

I'm leaving, for your and GTAvanja's love.

So...I should love God because if I don't, he'll burn me? For ever and ever?
Well, I'll happily take my place in Hell alongside the unbelievers, because at least they never told me to be a slave, at least they never told me to forsake my pride and become some pussywhipped douchebag who smiles through his teeth and trips over himself to please this neurotic scumbag of a God.
He threatens and bullies his own creation, he has no honour, no dignity, no decency. A common prostitute gives more happiness to more people than your precious tin God has done in the last thirty years.
You see his benevolence in the simplest, most rudimentary things and completely ignore the numerous times he's ignored you, f*cked you over, left you dangling in the wind.
Your God has abandoned you. He is unfit to be God.

AB0333
  • AB0333

    ___________

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 29 Jul 2009

#284

Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:51 PM Edited by AB0333, 30 January 2012 - 09:56 PM.

QUOTE
Well, I'll happily take my place in Hell alongside the unbelievers, because at least they never told me to be a slave, at least they never told me to forsake my pride and become some pussywhipped douchebag who smiles through his teeth and trips over himself to please this neurotic scumbag of a God.

Believe me, you will wish you never said that when Judgement Day comes.

Haha, I can't believe it. I laughed at he last sentence.
Do you know why?

Take a look at this video sometime, but now skip at 1:42:10:

And this is what you said:
QUOTE
Your God has abandoned you.

Do you have any idea what have you just said?
If you have a crumb of mind, you will think about this. It is only a movie, looks ridiculous, call me crazy, but this is real.
You don't even have to believe it, but you need to know where from did that come.

Emhyr
  • Emhyr

    Dragon Age

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2009

#285

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:05 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 20:13)

You see his benevolence in the simplest, most rudimentary things and completely ignore the numerous times he's ignored you, f*cked you over, left you dangling in the wind.
Your God has abandoned you. He is unfit to be God.

Seriously Mr. sivispacem...you still count this as constructive conversation? Wouldn't be easier to lock this topic cause Typhus could add some more nonsense into already ridiculous topic for discussing.There's no evidence for god's existence,so what's there to talk about? If you want to believe,if you think that's whats going to bring you happiness into your miserable life then feel free to join the circus.If you don't believe and if you think those are fairy tales for morons,or you just think that you are so much better then little god,then screw all that and stay atheist.No need to insult someone just because he believes differently...dear Typhus,I expected that at least you wont be a victim of something called religion.

AB0333
  • AB0333

    ___________

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 29 Jul 2009

#286

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:08 PM

Great, we have an Illuminat now, too. Can't be worse...

Typhus
  • Typhus

    OG

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2007

#287

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:09 PM

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 21:51)
QUOTE
Well, I'll happily take my place in Hell alongside the unbelievers, because at least they never told me to be a slave, at least they never told me to forsake my pride and become some pussywhipped douchebag who smiles through his teeth and trips over himself to please this neurotic scumbag of a God.

Believe me, you will wish you never said that when Judgement Day comes.

Oh, Judgement Day? Not before? Not now? Not tommorow? But that hazily defined day of Judgement we were told about by some cave-dwelling hermit?
Tell me, why should I fear a God who doesn't even have the guts to stop me writing these words? Where is this marvelous God of yours? Why hasn't he struck me down already? He can wait all he wants, but his hesitation, his inaction, marks him as a coward.
And if he has a problem with me saying that, well, he knows where I live, he knows where to find me. He can knock on my door like a gentleman and try to fight me like a man. Think that's likely? Think he can suddenly miracle up a pair of balls and do something to me?
I don't. I think he is a glorified trickster and you have been suckered in by all his phony promises of endless tomorrows and eternal bliss. But that's all he is: Big talk and no action.

Come along, God. Let's not wait for Judgement Day. Validate this poor wretch and strike me down. Give me a stroke, give me a brain tumour, have a plane drop out of the sky and crush me and my family into bloody lumps of cold meat. Hell, why not send over that illiterate peasant you call a son? Why not have your little boy fight your battles again? It's about your speed, isn't it?

Where is he? Where's the revenge? Where's the payback? Oh, let me guess, it got lost in the mail, right?
Get real. It's time to wake up and smell the chickensh*t. He's nothing. He doesn't deserve your dedication. Why not worship a better God? A God who won't let you down? Why not worship me?
Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

Emhyr
  • Emhyr

    Dragon Age

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2009

#288

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 22:08)
Great, we have an Illuminat now, too. Can't be worse...


Oh great let's talk about nonexistent secret society now...Btw...it's a dollar bill...

AB0333
  • AB0333

    ___________

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 29 Jul 2009

#289

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:17 PM Edited by AB0333, 30 January 2012 - 10:30 PM.

I can't believe so much anger, hate and lie can fit into human soul..
QUOTE
Why hasn't he struck me down already?

He's letting you rot in your betrayal and non-believing, so you can burn better.

God has no son, Jesus/Isa is his messenger, and he will come back on Earth to kill your damned leader when it's time.

QUOTE
Oh great let's talk about nonexistent secret society now...

Nonexistent?
Holy God...

No, this is too much. I give up. I leave.

Emhyr
  • Emhyr

    Dragon Age

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2009

#290

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 22:17)


QUOTE
Oh great let's talk about nonexistent secret society now...

Nonexistent?
Holy God...

Oh conspiracy nut...I see..It's ok.There's already topic about it.

The Yokel
  • The Yokel

    First of his name

  • The Yardies
  • Joined: 30 Mar 2007
  • Jamaica

#291

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE (GTA_stu @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 03:42)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 00:52)
@AB0333: You have to be trolling. No one can actually say all that stuff and mean it. That is so f*ckin' stupid. Whatever the case may be, please leave.

How about you leave? The guy was just stating his opinion, if you don't agree with it then fine but don't resort to petty insults and childish name calling. He articulated his view point pretty well I thought even though I disagreed with most of it.

What points? He gives an impression of being one of those religious zealots who have never even heard the other side of the argument. Like he lived in a monastery his entire life or as if he covered his ears every time someone tried to explain a few things to him. People like him are not interested in debating about religion. Just look at his posts. As if burning in hell and all that bullsh*t is a proven scientific fact.

Robinski
  • Robinski

    Under a fluorescent sky

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2007

#292

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:45 PM Edited by Robinski, 30 January 2012 - 10:51 PM.

QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 22:17)
I can't believe so much anger, hate and lie can fit into human soul..
QUOTE
Why hasn't he struck me down already?

He's letting you rot in your betrayal and non-believing, so you can burn better.

That doesn't sound like a very benevolent god. He's letting Typhus stew so that the satisfaction of hurting him is all the more enjoyable when the time comes? Sounds like a sadist to me. Again, someone who deserves no worship of mine.

The response that I would expect to that question was that God loves everyone, even those who defy and decry him. The reason he does not smite them down at the inception of these thoughts is to grant them every available opportunity to save themselves and find his message. For when they do they would be forgiven, because that's the kind of guy God is. But no, apparently it's so you "burn better".

sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Jo Nškyvi Pohjan Portit

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • European-Union
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011

#293

Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:55 PM

QUOTE (Username482 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 23:27)
QUOTE (AB0333 @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 22:17)


QUOTE
Oh great let's talk about nonexistent secret society now...

Nonexistent?
Holy God...

Oh conspiracy nut...I see..It's ok.There's already topic about it.

I think he thought you were referring to belief in God; or, more accurately, religion; when you said "non-existent secret society".

I've got my eye on this topic. I'm not going to lock it as both Typhus and AB0333 have every right to express their views on religion. Thing is, I agree almost entirely with Typhus in this instance. Even if one were to ignore the question of whether God actually existed, then it is obvious that he/she/it is not omnipotent, omniscient or omni-benevolent. Even the traditional response to this- the "free will" argument- if combined with the idea of omniscience, means that God could not be omni-benevolent; foreknowledge of suffering, the capability to prevent it but deciding not to influence the course of action is a demonstration of what I would argue is malevolence, regardless of whether you believe in free will.

Emhyr
  • Emhyr

    Dragon Age

  • Members
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2009

#294

Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

Why would he think that? I would never said that to any believer,but when I think about it...religion really is (unfortunately) very existent not so secret society.But still I think he's into conspiracies,I know that type.Beside I also agree everyone should share their opinions,but these opinions suddenly starting to become insults.Anyway, no need for hate when we simply don't know anything about god,or his existence.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    he's going to get into the ring and put boots to asses

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#295

Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:37 PM

QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 17:40)
As if burning in hell and all that bullsh*t is a proven scientific fact.

Can you prove it's not?

Icarus
  • Icarus

    [C9] Orthonormal

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2002
  • None

#296

Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:28 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 16:37)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 17:40)
As if burning in hell and all that bullsh*t is a proven scientific fact.

Can you prove it's not?

It depends on who you believe the onus is on.

As an atheist, I personally believe (my opinion) that the burden of proof is on those making the claim that God exists. As well, to quote the late Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," however, depending on your viewpoint, you might see people saying there is no god as an extraordinary claim and of course, those who do not believe in god/religion will say claiming there is some kind of God is an extraordinary claim.

As a scientist, for me to believe something (or think of it as being credible), I require some degree of evidence to be there. While the absence of evidence does not necessarily imply evidence of absence, it puts me in a position to say, "There's a very good chance, due to the lack of evidence, that there is no higher power," in the sense that I can't claim that there is no God with 100% certainty (even Richard Dawkins will admit you cannot be 100% certain, otherwise you're not accounting for the possibility one day someone will be able to prove the existence of God), but I'm fairly confident there is none.

coin-god
  • coin-god

    High Roller

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 18 Mar 2007
  • None

#297

Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:42 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 20:37)
QUOTE (GTAvanja @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 17:40)
As if burning in hell and all that bullsh*t is a proven scientific fact.

Can you prove it's not?

It's not a scientific fact. Show me a scientific report stating so.

Shaunr
  • Shaunr

    Cooljunk Productions

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Apr 2008
  • None

#298

Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:59 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Sunday, Jan 29 2012, 21:37)
QUOTE (playaindahood @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 02:26)
I'm atheist. i'm a godless human being just like the other 7 billion+ people on this planet. I'd like to heard good evidence for god which doesn't involve blind faith, or "miracles." every religion wants to attach some sort of miracle to their god as proof for god's existence. people are so desperate it's sad. They know faith alone isn't good enough so they have to desperately grab at the good things that happen to justify god's existence.

Can you prove God is not there?

can you prove there's not a teacup in orbit around saturn?

please, don't try to count ignorance as evidence.

Irviding
  • Irviding

    he's going to get into the ring and put boots to asses

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2008
  • United-States

#299

Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:17 AM Edited by Irviding, 31 January 2012 - 04:21 AM.

QUOTE

can you prove there's not a teacup in orbit around saturn?

Could I? No. Could someone who has taken a semester of astronomy at some point in their lives? Probably.

I am not a very religious person, as I've stated many times. I just find all of you very arrogant to think that you can definitively say that God doesn't exist. You have absolutely no proof that he doesn't exist. You have people who have had NDEs claiming to have seen the light or whatever. You have parents who prayed 24/7 for their childrens' illnesses to go away, and they have gone away. Are you going to actually try to tell one of those people that God doesn't exist? Good luck proving it to them. I'm sorry but I just don't buy into this idea that you can all definitively prove that something people have believed in for tens of thousands of years just now doesn't exist because you say so. I much prefer what Typhus is saying - that there is a God there, but we've 'outgrown' him per se.

QUOTE

I require some degree of evidence to be there. While the absence of evidence does not necessarily imply evidence of absence, it puts me in a position to say, "There's a very good chance, due to the lack of evidence, that there is no higher power," in the sense that I can't claim that there is no God with 100% certainty (even Richard Dawkins will admit you cannot be 100% certain, otherwise you're not accounting for the possibility one day someone will be able to prove the existence of God), but I'm fairly confident there is none.

Again, I am really playing devil's advocate more than anything here, because I am no ardent Catholic (though I do practice Catholicism), infact I tend to take a more Deist viewpoint of things... but with that said, how can you be fairly confident of that? Where did we come from then? We just popped up spontaneously? The universe itself, everything we know and live in, just came out of no where? I'm not a math or science person, so that whole notion just sounds, well, ridiculous to my ears.

Icarus
  • Icarus

    [C9] Orthonormal

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2002
  • None

#300

Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:11 AM

QUOTE (Irviding @ Monday, Jan 30 2012, 21:17)
[...] but with that said, how can you be fairly confident of that?

To be honest, I can ask you the exact same question.

The issue that always comes up in any debate about religion is the whole creation of the universe and I cannot offer any explanation of my own (if I had some more training in cosmology, I could bring in the Big Bang, but I'll leave that to someone more knowledgeable in that area of physics) and I know science has not fully answered the question... yet. The problem is that quite a few people (I'm not accusing you of this - more of a general comment) will say that because science hasn't answered the question on the whole start of the universe and how we got here, then automatically God did the job. People also forget science can take a long time to actually find the answer to a hypothesis; it's a slow and steady process. Do we know all the intricacies of the start of the universe? No, not even close. Are scientists working on it? You bet. The great thing about science is that if we do not have the answer, we will freely admit that, but scientists will also tell you that they still need to keep working towards the answer. It may take several generations, but science will not stop until it has a rational explanation for the points you brought up (which could take decades, centuries or even millennia - it's really hard to say).

In short, just because science hasn't figured out all the mysteries of the origins of the beginning of the universe quite yet, doesn't automatically mean God created everything. Give science time.

While I cannot say that I am 100% confident there is no God (being completely dismissive is hard for a scientist; you have to leave some room for an unexpected result in the absence of concrete evidence in your favour), I am quite confident (the key being quite confident - not I am absolutely certain) there is no higher power on the basis that, in my opinion, it just doesn't flow with logic and the scientific process. This is, of course, my opinion. Could I be wrong? Sure, it's definitely a possibility, but no one on this Earth can prove me wrong, just like no one can prove you wrong if you claim there is a God - they can merely give their reasoning on why they believe you're wrong, but not a concrete proof.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users