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Ratko Mladic Captured

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mark-2007
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#1

Posted 26 May 2011 - 04:48 PM Edited by mark-2007, 26 May 2011 - 04:52 PM.

BBC News report

QUOTE (The Guardian)
Police in Serbia have arrested Ratko Mladic, the Bosnian Serb military leader wanted by the United Nations for war crimes committed during the Bosnian war, including the Srebrenica massacre.

The arrest of Mladic – who had let it be known that he would rather kill himself than be arrested – was confirmed by the Serbian president, Boris Tadic.

"On behalf of the Republic of Serbia I can announce the arrest of Ratko Mladic," Tadic told reporters.

Mladic, who was arrested in Serbia, would be extradited to the United Nations war crimes tribunal, Tadic said. A government spokesman said the process could take up to seven days.

"We ended a difficult period of our history and removed the stain from the face of the members of our nation wherever they live," Tadic said.

http://www.guardian....rbian-president

What do you all make of this? Hope there's not already a topic, I couldn't find one with a brief search on here and D&D. I've been studying Yugoslavia's history and the brief history of it's now independent countries in a course at university.

The guy was responsible for the siege of Sarajevo that targeted the civilians of the city, along with the Srebrenica massacre that resulted in the deaths of 7-8,000 Bosnian Muslims. After Karadzic's arrest a few years ago, he became the most prominent of the few remainging war criminals from the wars of the 1990s in the area, and his arrest was made a prerequisite for Serbia's admission to the EU.



Anyone from the Serbs, Croats or Bosnian Muslims opinions on this in particular? Also, how prevalent is the ultra-nationalism of the 1990s in the region?

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#2

Posted 26 May 2011 - 04:54 PM

About damn time. Good stuff.

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#3

Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:03 PM

I love it when the bad guys already have names like "Ratko". It's straight outta the cartoons!!!

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#4

Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Otter @ May 26 2011, 17:03)
I love it when the bad guys already have names like "Ratko". It's straight outta the cartoons!!!

Have you lost a bet or something?

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#5

Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:05 PM

Yeah, I find it hard to believe it's taken so long to capture him. I don't get how he's been able to continue living in Serbian society without being noticed or captured until now. There's footage of him at family celebrations that have surfaced relatively recently, although it's unknown when they're from, but suggest that his presence is hardly a secret to some. Same with Karadzic, wasn't he living as a doctor in a Serbian town where the children called him Santa because of the beard he'd grown?

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#6

Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:06 PM

QUOTE (860 @ May 26 2011, 11:04)
QUOTE (Otter @ May 26 2011, 17:03)
I love it when the bad guys already have names like "Ratko".  It's straight outta the cartoons!!! 

Have you lost a bet or something?

Leave Chrissie alone, man. You're just mad because she's a free spirit.

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#7

Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:15 PM

Weren't the Bosnians also commiting atrocities against the Serbs?
I thought that was the whole starting point. Bosnians killed Serbs, so Milosevic armed Serbs to kill Bosnians. Is that right?

mark-2007
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#8

Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:27 PM

There was atrocities committed on all sides, but apparently 90% were on the part of the Serbs. Bosnia-Herzegovina were going through the independence process, as Croatia and Slovenia had done, and Bosnian Serbs such as Karadzic wanted to remain part of Yugoslavia. Milosevic was funding such Bosnian Serb paramilitaries. I'm not much good at explaining it (which doesn't speak volumes for how my exam on it will have gone...). There's a very good BBC documentary series that deals with it, interviewing key players such as Milosevic and Franjo Tudjman, called 'The Death of Yugoslavia' that I'll link to you if interested, it's all on YouTube. Essentially it was nationalism taken to extremes from all sides.

EDIT: Here you go, http://www.youtube.c...a?feature=chclk

That's a channel with all the parts on it, six episodes and each one is split into five, 10 minute parts.

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#9

Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Gronf @ May 26 2011, 17:54)
About damn time. Good stuff.

*Waits for GTAvanja to try and justify Mladic's action as "they're all Albanians and the enemies of the Serbs"*

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#10

Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:56 PM

Niko Bellic will be happy to hear this!

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#11

Posted 27 May 2011 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE (Torchwood @ May 27 2011, 00:56)
Niko Bellic will be happy to hear this!

No he wont. And why post something like that?

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#12

Posted 27 May 2011 - 01:43 PM

QUOTE (kizzck @ May 27 2011, 13:21)
QUOTE (Torchwood @ May 27 2011, 00:56)
Niko Bellic will be happy to hear this!

No he wont. And why post something like that?

Please don't say you're one of the ultra nationalist retards who support the asshole.

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#13

Posted 27 May 2011 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE (860 @ May 27 2011, 08:43)
QUOTE (kizzck @ May 27 2011, 13:21)
QUOTE (Torchwood @ May 27 2011, 00:56)
Niko Bellic will be happy to hear this!

No he wont. And why post something like that?

Please don't say you're one of the ultra nationalist retards who support the asshole.

I think he's commenting on the fact that Niko Bellic is a fictional character.

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#14

Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (kizzck @ May 27 2011, 13:21)
QUOTE (Torchwood @ May 27 2011, 00:56)
Niko Bellic will be happy to hear this!

No he wont. And why post something like that?

Just sayin in gta4's backstory Niko was a soldier in the war wink.gif

It is widely presumed that allusions to Nikolai Bellic's past place him as a Croatian or Serbian Army veteran who fought in the Bosnian War, albeit unclear to his exact birthplace in the former Yugoslavian states (though he is unquestionably Serbo-Croatian). Throughout his early adulthood in the midst of the war, Niko witnessed, and committed, unspeakable and traumatic acts of war.

His elder brother was killed in action in the war, a war in which Niko participated as an enraged youth, motivated by ill-founded nationalism. Niko witnessed numerous atrocities during the war, including the murder and mutilation of over 50 children, which led to his cynical perspective on life, with certain degrees of regret, depression, emotional and social detachment.

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#15

Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:09 AM Edited by BGModder, 28 May 2011 - 12:12 AM.

QUOTE (Moonshield @ May 27 2011, 09:53)
QUOTE (860 @ May 27 2011, 08:43)
QUOTE (kizzck @ May 27 2011, 13:21)
QUOTE (Torchwood @ May 27 2011, 00:56)
Niko Bellic will be happy to hear this!

No he wont. And why post something like that?

Please don't say you're one of the ultra nationalist retards who support the asshole.

I think he's commenting on the fact that Niko Bellic is a fictional character.

This. That post about Niko Bellic was in poor taste. The atrocities committed during this war is not a small issue and is not something to joke about. I hope this guy (Ratko Mladic) burns in hell.

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#16

Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:18 AM

First world problems. It's pretty common for somebody without an idea of the gravity of the situation to try to relate to it by some pretty frivolous means. Not saying that I can either - I've never experienced anything as horrible as the Bosnian war - but I know enough not to try to make light of it by referencing a fictional character. Sure, his backstory was given context that parallels to real events, but that serves a completely different purpose.

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:36 AM

What's Bosnia like now, anyway? I heard it was a breeding ground of terrorist training camps, is this true? Or just scaremongering?

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#18

Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (Typhus @ May 27 2011, 19:36)
What's Bosnia like now, anyway? I heard it was a breeding ground of terrorist training camps, is this true? Or just scaremongering?

Anytime you hear about a country being a "breeding ground of terrorist training camps," it's propaganda. The only possible exception was Afghanistan under the Taleban.

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#19

Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:46 AM

QUOTE (BGModder @ May 28 2011, 00:38)
QUOTE (Typhus @ May 27 2011, 19:36)
What's Bosnia like now, anyway? I heard it was a breeding ground of terrorist training camps, is this true? Or just scaremongering?

Anytime you hear about a country being a "breeding ground of terrorist training camps," it's propaganda. The only possible exception was Afghanistan under the Taleban.

How is it propaganda? Do you have any evidence to support such a blanket claim?

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:07 AM Edited by BGModder, 28 May 2011 - 01:19 AM.

QUOTE (Typhus @ May 27 2011, 19:46)
QUOTE (BGModder @ May 28 2011, 00:38)
QUOTE (Typhus @ May 27 2011, 19:36)
What's Bosnia like now, anyway? I heard it was a breeding ground of terrorist training camps, is this true? Or just scaremongering?

Anytime you hear about a country being a "breeding ground of terrorist training camps," it's propaganda. The only possible exception was Afghanistan under the Taleban.

How is it propaganda? Do you have any evidence to support such a blanket claim?

Yes, it's called reality. If you research the political history of Islam, the West and the East (with particular focus on the 1979 Islamic Revolution of Iran), you will find the so-called "terrorist" phenomenon is nothing more than propaganda used to sway the public (with particular emphasis on the American public). I've been to Iran, Iraq, Turkey, among other countries and regions in the Middle East; Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, among other countries in Europe; and have lived in Canada and America my whole life, and from my experiences in these places I can say without any doubt that "terrorism" is a term used to control the gullible and ignorant. The only form of terrorism that actually exists as portrayed by the media is Wahhabism (a group of people who have apostated from Islam and created their own religion/cult) and youth from impoverished countries (such as Iraq) who are recruited as front-line soldiers using lies and fabricated or incomplete sources by political groups who operate under the guise of a Muslim rebellion.

My suggestion to anyone who sincerely wants to learn the truth is to read the Qur'an (which is the only credible way to learn about Muslim beliefs) and research Ayatollah Khomeini and the 1979 Islamic Revolution of Iran to gain a more accurate perspective on the political aspects of Islam and "terrorism."

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#21

Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:15 AM

So, Islamic terrorism doesn't exist? That's what you're saying?

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#22

Posted 28 May 2011 - 01:53 AM Edited by Chorup, 28 May 2011 - 01:56 AM.

This is just another self-promoting stunt, no different to Obama taking all of the credit for Osama's death, and adding another term onto his presidency.

There is no denying that the Serbian authorities have turned a blind eye, or even assisted in hiding Mladic over the past 15-20 years. You really think if they sincerely opposed the actions of this Serbian war criminal, they would have acted immediately after the atrocities of Srbrenica. There is no doubting that he deserves what is coming to him, but realistically let us put the current circumstances into perspective.

The man is almost 70 and is undoubtedly approaching the later stages of his life. Serbia is a nation desperate to be accepted by the EU. This craze with the EU seems to be an unhealthy obsession for nations in the Balkans. The EU is a failing entity, and the cons far outweigh the limited benefits. What I'm trying to convey, is that the Serbian Government has essentially extracted the remaining benefits from this man, using him as a pawn. The timing is ironic, and the Serbian PM constantly emphasises that, "Serbia has closed a painful chapter in its history," not to mention adding the odd EU ass-kissing comment. It is a joke to think that Serbia is cleansed by the arrest of this one war criminal.

I think what they have done is disrespectful to both the Serbian nation and the victims of Srbrenica or any other massacre that took place under the command of Mladic. Not only did they pro-long his capture to begin with, but they have essentially sold-out or betrayed the very person they harboured in an effort to appease the EU. As far as I'm concerned, these kind of criminals should be handed over IMMEDIATELY, and should suffer a life-time prison sentence or even executed for their crimes. But in this case, the very country that harboured him has reverted to scapegoating all their problems, and now, out of thin air, present the perfect EU candidate.

On the topic of war criminals, how come nobody was ever charged with the complete destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki...what about the unjust wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...oh wait, the US seem to be exempt from such crimes.


QUOTE

*Waits for GTAvanja to try and justify Mladic's action as "they're all Albanians and the enemies of the Serbs"*


I entirely oppose what Mladic did, however this is a stupid comment. I thought you would've learnt a thing or two in regards to the Albanians in a previous debate we had. These people, in particular the Albanians in Kosovo, are the most extreme group of individuals in the Balkans. They are currently the biggest threat to the stability of the entire region, which has been plagued with war ever since the early stages of civilisation.

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#23

Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:31 AM

QUOTE (BGModder @ May 28 2011, 01:38)
QUOTE (Typhus @ May 27 2011, 19:36)
What's Bosnia like now, anyway? I heard it was a breeding ground of terrorist training camps, is this true? Or just scaremongering?

Anytime you hear about a country being a "breeding ground of terrorist training camps," it's propaganda. The only possible exception was Afghanistan under the Taleban.

North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan. South-West and Southern Yemen? Southern Algeria? Somalia in its entirety? North Caucus region in its entirety? Few more examples there. Though I've seen no evidence Bosnia is becoming a terrorist safe haven. Organised crime perhaps, but not terrorism.

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#24

Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:33 AM

It was the damn time he got arrested. I think that Serbia knew where is Mladic. They are just protected him. But, probably he will die in prison soon. Or charges will be dropped.

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#25

Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ May 28 2011, 09:31)
QUOTE (BGModder @ May 28 2011, 01:38)
QUOTE (Typhus @ May 27 2011, 19:36)
What's Bosnia like now, anyway? I heard it was a breeding ground of terrorist training camps, is this true? Or just scaremongering?

Anytime you hear about a country being a "breeding ground of terrorist training camps," it's propaganda. The only possible exception was Afghanistan under the Taleban.

North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan. South-West and Southern Yemen? Southern Algeria? Somalia in its entirety? North Caucus region in its entirety? Few more examples there. Though I've seen no evidence Bosnia is becoming a terrorist safe haven. Organised crime perhaps, but not terrorism.

I saw a report on Bosnian Islamic terrorism on Panorama a while back, I can't judge the country either way because this is the only time I've ever heard Bosnia described as a terrorist breeding ground. I just wasn't sure if it was actually blown completely out of proportion. In terms of terrorism in European nations, the UK is probably the most afflicted. And I do have a hard time believing that Bosnia has the same level of Jihadist sentiment as we do.
Luckily our terrorists are inept bunglers, but terrorists they remain.

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#26

Posted 28 May 2011 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Chorup @ May 28 2011, 02:53)
QUOTE

*Waits for GTAvanja to try and justify Mladic's action as "they're all Albanians and the enemies of the Serbs"*


I entirely oppose what Mladic did, however this is a stupid comment. I thought you would've learnt a thing or two in regards to the Albanians in a previous debate we had. These people, in particular the Albanians in Kosovo, are the most extreme group of individuals in the Balkans. They are currently the biggest threat to the stability of the entire region, which has been plagued with war ever since the early stages of civilisation.

In case you hadn't realised, I was being sardonic. In relation to "having learned a thing or two..." what would I have learned from a few pages of inane banter, Vanja getting a warning for being offensive and then everyone stopping responding to my posts? The only thing it even reinforced was that the fact that a decent knowledge in a subject area doesn't overcome personal prejudices. To draw a comparison- a neo-Nazi may well have a finely developed understanding of the mechanics, functions and foibles of a dictatorial, fascist state. That doesn't mean that they're right about it's value.

I do very much agree with the rest of your post though. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Mladic has been harboured, or at the very least given the opportunity to disappear, by the Serbian authorities. That is, apart from the utterly deluded statements regarding the two Atomic bombings, Afghanistan and Iraq. I though you would have learned a lesson or two from our last discussion on the idea of "just war", legitimate use of force and proportionality.

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#27

Posted 28 May 2011 - 03:05 PM Edited by Sanjeem, 28 May 2011 - 03:09 PM.

To be honest though, The first time I ever researched about this subject was through GTAIV. Interesting to see what games can actually inform you about. Anyway for all those families that have lost their friends and relatives due to this man, I hope you are happy that this man is arrested and I hope somthing like this never happens again in Serbia or former Yugoslavia icon14.gif

The Albanian Prime minister Hashim Thaci ain't no saint himself, he has been named in a number of accusation that has led people to think that he was and still to a certain extent might still be involved in Drug trafficking, Human trafficking, Weapon trafficking and Organ trafficking, from cutting up the organs of ethnic serbs in and after the war and selling them on the Black market. The victims were said to have begged to be killed, instead of carry on living with certain organs removed. Now that's some gruesome and scary stuff.

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#28

Posted 28 May 2011 - 06:01 PM

Typhus, I've visited Bosnia & Herzegovina many times and the muslim people there are anything but stereotypical extremists. It's a nice country with a polluted history.

Croatia was in a very similar spot when three "war criminals" were captured, one was acquitted, and the other two given sentences. One of those, Ante Gotovina, is widely recognized as a war hero in many parts of Croatia for his role in Operation Storm (which essentially ended the war). His prosecution was too a requirement for Croatia's admittance to the EU, which a lot seemed to openly oppose. As a Croatian refugee (came to Canada in approximately 1994), I'm more than pleased that justice will most likely be served and can only hope that Goran Hadžić will be found too.




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