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man dragon
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#691

Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:26 AM

QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Thursday, Apr 18 2013, 07:34)
The sister sex and Bran attempted murder stuff are kind of hand in hand (no pun intended). It's sick, but he loves his sister, and their incest babies. If Bran tells anyone what he saw, not only would Robert have killed Jaime, he'd probably have killed Cersei. If it's found out that Joffery and the rest of the Baratheon kids are not Robert's offspring, he might've killed them too. And what would Tywin have done? Killing Bran, in Jaime's split second decision was the lesser of two evils. Kill one child to save his own. Who wouldn't do that?

I guess you can be mad at him for the whole confrontation of Eddard and his men after Catelyn took Tyrion as a prisoner. But that's easily shot down, he is loyal to his family, and the apparent co-conspirator of the person who kidnapped his brother was within reach.

At first you think he's involved with Cersei and her "game of thrones", but in the end he's just a knight. Honorable, dutiful, even heroic.

You're right, except that Jaime never loved his incest babies. "[Joffrey's] nothing to me but a seed in Cersei's c*nt," I think was the line.

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#692

Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

QUOTE (JOSEPH X @ Thursday, Apr 18 2013, 22:36)
Was that Gary Lightbody - lead singer of Snow Patrol - being given water as he was being crucifed by Daenarys Targyrean? I know he's in it at some point.

I think he may have been in Locke's crew, singing 'Bear and the Maiden Fair'. When I heard he and the other dude from Coldplay were going to have cameos, I assumed they would be with the BWB;probably as Lem and Tom.

I am disappointed there is no Lem with yes yellow cloak, or Vargo Hoat. The tv guys seem To thing they're perhaps too 'cartoony' for their world, but it only makes the tv universe seem and drab and less remarkable than the books.

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#693

Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

You will see the Coldplay drummer cameo later at a certain wedding. If you haven't read the books, do not look up who's wedding this may be.

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#694

Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:36 PM

QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Thursday, Apr 18 2013, 07:34)
The sister sex and Bran attempted murder stuff are kind of hand in hand (no pun intended). It's sick, but he loves his sister, and their incest babies. If Bran tells anyone what he saw, not only would Robert have killed Jaime, he'd probably have killed Cersei. If it's found out that Joffery and the rest of the Baratheon kids are not Robert's offspring, he might've killed them too. And what would Tywin have done? Killing Bran, in Jaime's split second decision was the lesser of two evils. Kill one child to save his own. Who wouldn't do that?

I guess you can be mad at him for the whole confrontation of Eddard and his men after Catelyn took Tyrion as a prisoner. But that's easily shot down, he is loyal to his family, and the apparent co-conspirator of the person who kidnapped his brother was within reach.

At first you think he's involved with Cersei and her "game of thrones", but in the end he's just a knight. Honorable, dutiful, even heroic.

How do you explain Jaime sitting on the throne when Ned walked in after he killed Aerys? Seems pretty revealing doesn't it? His motivations to me are himself and keeping his family in power.

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#695

Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

Is that necessarily a "crime" in the world of Westros (and medieval politics or politics in general)?

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#696

Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:37 PM Edited by darthYENIK, 19 April 2013 - 10:43 PM.

He sat on the throne, it's not like he contested Robert to be King, which he could have. Although he might of, if he knew that Robert would take Cersei as a wife. He had his chance to ensure his family would be the most powerful of all time, if he took the crown, and probably would have beaten Robert if he challenged. But he didn't. That doesn't seem like someone motivated by power.

And I'm not saying he's a white knight that isn't a little bad. I'm just saying, he's not the evil prick that he comes off as after the first book.

@Ronmar, yeah, it's technically a crime. Only the King or those representing the King in his absence, like a King's regent or the Hand, can sit on the throne. And when there is no King it's kind of like a sign of trying to claim the title.

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#697

Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:28 AM

I agree he is a decent human being whose done some bad things. I just wish he could admit he was wrong in some of his deeds. I guess that's why I enjoy Theon so much. He's done terrible things maybe worse than Jaime but he regrets and has realized he was wrong. He's had a rough upbringing and just wanted somewhere to belong. Both characters are some of the brightest points of Martins world.

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#698

Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:59 AM

Robert became King because his grandmother was a Targaryen and it's also highly suggested that the Baratheons are an offshoot branch of Targaryens anyway. From the wiki:

QUOTE
[House] Baratheon is the youngest of the original great houses, tracing its descent from Orys Baratheon, one of Aegon "The Conqueror" Targaryen's fiercest generals, and rumored to be his bastard brother.

After killing the Mad King, while Tywin Lannister sacked King's Landing, Jaime took his seat on the Throne and effectively stopped Lannister bannermen from claiming it for his father. Ned arrived to find Jaime sitting there and, as per Ned hating the Lannisters, misunderstood the intentions behind the act and interpreted it as Jaime claiming the Throne for himself. Yet, Jaime stood up and let Ned claim the throne for Robert. "A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of sheep." Jaime is an extremely misunderstood character because he never makes his intentions obvious. Many of his finest deeds are reviled because he doesn't bother explaining why he did them.

QUOTE (Cuban Warlord @ Saturday, Apr 20 2013, 01:28)
I guess that's why I enjoy Theon so much. He's done terrible things maybe worse than Jaime but he regrets and has realized he was wrong. He's had a rough upbringing and just wanted somewhere to belong. Both characters are some of the brightest points of Martins world.

I could not agree more. Theon and Jaime are the perfect examples of characters with grey motivations and two of my favourite characters (I can never actually decide on who my favourite really is). George never makes things black and white; his villains may have good intentions and the heroes may have bad. I like to think of Daenerys as a hero with truly bad intentions. Here's a character that wants nothing more than to burn all the Starks, Lannisters and Baratheons, essentially all our favourite characters, with her dragon fire due to the misguided opinions her brother forced upon her when she was little. Yet readers and viewers love her because that's how well she's been written.

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#699

Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:26 AM

Really? I need to read these books again. I cruised through them last time, and guess some stuff like that, went in one eye and out the other, if you get my meaning.

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#700

Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:50 AM

Well that may be the best ending out of the entire series. Or maybe I'm just a Dany-whore. Great stuff the entire episode.

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#701

Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:46 AM Edited by darthYENIK, 22 April 2013 - 03:48 AM.

No, that was pretty f*cking awesome. Almost as good as I imagined it would be. Every episode this season I was cherishing every bad word that was said in Valyrian about Dany, and it was almost as fun to watch her reveal the truth, as it was to read it and have it revealed to me.

"I am Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen of the blood of old Valyria. Valyrian is my mother tongue!" It gave me chills. Of course, I'm a Dany fanatic as well. Who isn't?

And to think, this season is only going to get better.

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#702

Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:03 AM Edited by Ryan, 22 April 2013 - 05:07 AM.

Oh man, what an episode that was. Aside from the Battle of Blackwater episode last season, I think this episode was one of the bests. The ending with Dany was f*cking awesome! Watching Theon get trolled was also pretty entertaining.

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#703

Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:07 AM

And my boy Ramsay finally reveals himself! This whole thing is going to be a lot of fun, hopefully he'll start wearing his gaudy clothes from the book.

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#704

Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:16 AM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Sunday, Apr 21 2013, 21:07)
And my boy Ramsay finally reveals himself! This whole thing is going to be a lot of fun, hopefully he'll start wearing his gaudy clothes from the book.

From the way it looks they're going a different direction in regards to his appearance.

In the books, isn't he's supposed to be a big ugly guy? Still that was a pretty awesome reveal of the rack or whatever it's called.

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#705

Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:49 AM

Theon's scenes are wonderful. I'm very happy they decided to include him instead of waiting later until his stuff occurs like it does in the books.

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#706

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:01 AM

QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 05:16)
From the way it looks they're going a different direction in regards to his appearance.

In the books, isn't he's supposed to be a big ugly guy? Still that was a pretty awesome reveal of the rack or whatever it's called.

He was described as being ugly, yes. But not particularly fat - only with a look that suggested he may turn flabby in later life.
But my rationale is that if the acting matches up, physical resemblance isn't all that important.

In the books, Ramsay wears a lot of red and pink, it's such a vivid design that I hope they go down that road rather than keeping him in his black janitor costume.

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#707

Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:17 AM

I meant big more as like how the Clegane brothers are big. Or at least that's how I imagined him.

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#708

Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:54 AM Edited by GTAvanja, 22 April 2013 - 11:36 AM.

QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 04:46)
Of course, I'm a Dany fanatic as well.  Who isn't?

Hell, if a woman like that existed, I'd serve her without questioning. I get a boner every time Daenerys says "drakarys".

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#709

Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 03:46)
Of course, I'm a Dany fanatic as well. Who isn't?

Awkward, I'm not. I find her to be slow and kind of dull, especially later in the series. The only way I managed to get through her chapters is because I enjoy the characters she surrounds herself with; Viserys, Drogo, Barristan, Jorah and so on. They progressively get worse when they introduce people like Daario and Hizdahr (yawn). We've just seen pretty much her greatest moment in the series on the screen, it's a high-point, and everyone is really psyched for her because of it. To this day though, it has ultimately gone nowhere.

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#710

Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 08:01)
In the books, Ramsay wears a lot of red and pink, it's such a vivid design that I hope they go down that road rather than keeping him in his black janitor costume.

The show does a few things better than the books, and one thing in particular that springs to mind is that they toned down all the flamboyant, colorful sh*t people wear and have on their banners. It would seem so incredibly out of place in the world HBO's created.

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#711

Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE (Fnorg @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 12:36)
QUOTE (Typhus @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 08:01)
In the books, Ramsay wears a lot of red and pink, it's such a vivid design that I hope they go down that road rather than keeping him in his black janitor costume.

The show does a few things better than the books, and one thing in particular that springs to mind is that they toned down all the flamboyant, colorful sh*t people wear and have on their banners. It would seem so incredibly out of place in the world HBO's created.

Mostly you are right.
But Ramsay is a decadent, hedonistic monster. It makes no sense for his father to dress in bright colours - but Ramsay? It actually suits his character. Particularly as he was born into poverty and fashions himself in the manner he imagines the nobility do.

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#712

Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:49 PM Edited by orbitalraindrops, 24 April 2013 - 06:29 PM.

I think HBO have done a better job at handling Roose Bolton than in the book. I found Roose in particular too cartoony in the book. The guy only speaks in a whisper and bathes in Leeches. It can't scream bad guy any louder. In the show he comes across as a very methodical cunning patient man which I find much scarier. That said there will always be a place in my heart for book Roose.

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#713

Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:02 PM Edited by darthYENIK, 22 April 2013 - 08:40 PM.

QUOTE (orbitalraindrops @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 09:49)
I think HBO have done a better job at handling Roose Bolton than in the book. I found Roose in particular too cartoony in the book. The guy only speaks in a whisper and bathes in Leeches. It can't scream bad guy any louder. In the show he comes across as a very methodical cunning patient man which I find much scarier. That said there will always be a place in my heart for book Roose.

I know it's a small thing, but it might allude to bigger spoilers. So I'd say put a tag on it, like I did.

Remember, those watching the show right now don't know about the Boltons' betrayal. To them, Roose is just some supporting character, that is 100% behind King Robb.

That said, I do wish that Roose was at Harrenhal, and not Tywin. That way we at least would have gotten a few episodes with him and Arya.

@man dragon, I can see where you're coming from. In ADWD Dany's story is kind of boring. But I trust the producers of the show to punch those scenes up, like they did with her in Qarth. I really hope there's a few scenes with Barristan training his knights in Meereen. But you got to admit the fighting pit scene is probably one of the best action scenes in the books. Well worth reading through the boring stuff to get to.

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#714

Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:42 AM

QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 20:02)
@man dragon, I can see where you're coming from. In ADWD Dany's story is kind of boring. But I trust the producers of the show to punch those scenes up, like they did with her in Qarth. I really hope there's a few scenes with Barristan training his knights in Meereen. But you got to admit the fighting pit scene is probably one of the best action scenes in the books. Well worth reading through the boring stuff to get to.

That was a good scene, you're right. I just find that most of the characters with her seem to echo my sentiment. For example when she spurns Quentyn for Hizdahr. The f*ck is wrong with her? She could combine her army with one of the most powerful Houses in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros and she doesn't because he's not "comely." The thing is, everyone wants to see Dany get to Westeros because that's been her goal from the very beginning, she's had chances to go and she hasn't taken them. Why? I find her to be a spoiled little girl above all else and a terrible ruler to boot. At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if she goes insane and becomes a shadow of her father, turning into the Mad Queen, obsessed with power and revenge.

Jon on the other hand, is up in the North doing everything he can to protect the Kingdoms from impending doom. He wants to hold no lands or win no glory, as per his vows - he just wants to do what's right. Even though he has no "f*ck yes!" moments like the Dracarys scene, he's still a far better character in my mind.

Don't get me started on Tyrion...

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#715

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

Great great great episode. The last scene was brilliant,
How far away is she from King's Landing?

Joffrey better watch out.

The whole Night's Watch stuff, got really messy ! I really thought Sam was going to call him a bastard, but then the random dude did. I guess in the books there was a lot more build up to this whole scene?

The bald eunuch guy, Vaesaerys has some great lines. What did he say about Little Finger, if it meant the whole world burning, he'd want to be King of the ashes'




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#716

Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:20 PM

QUOTE (ajbns87 @ Tuesday, Apr 23 2013, 10:27)
Great great great episode. The last scene was brilliant,
How far away is she from King's Landing?

Joffrey better watch out.

The whole Night's Watch stuff, got really messy ! I really thought Sam was going to call him a bastard, but then the random dude did. I guess in the books there was a lot more build up to this whole scene?

The bald eunuch guy, Vaesaerys has some great lines. What did he say about Little Finger, if it meant the whole world burning, he'd want to be King of the ashes'

She's very far away. And the distance is magnified because now she has an army. Imagine crossing Asia, then an ocean, all on foot, then by sailboat, and oh yeah, you need to feed an army the whole time and find a way to get an army across the ocean in medieval times.

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#717

Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:36 PM

One of the best episodes of the entire series. Loved the Brotherhood scenes, loved the spider, loved the continued rivalry between Marge and Cersei. Dany's final scene litterally gave me goosebumps. Only time that's happened other than Dracrays was Blackwater.

Looking forward to the hounds trial and Ygritte/Jon cave scene next week smile.gif

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#718

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:21 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 24 April 2013 - 07:23 AM.

probably the single best episode to date.
it had a little bit of everything and everything was just perfect.

the whole thing with Theon and Ramsay certainly requires an explanation soon.
Ramsay frees Theon. Theon is chased. Ramsay kills the guys who chased him. Ramsay leads him back and betrays him? ok nice... that was anticlimactic. pretty blunt as far as plot twists go. obviously didn't see that coming but why?

Brotherhood Without Banners is kind of interesting but I'm still a Dog fan.
what a bad ass that guy is. every time he shows up he's the most intimidating person on screen no matter what else is going on. the Brotherhood wants to accuse him of murder? seems pretty random. there's a lot worse guys out there than Dog I reckon. so I dunno who this guy with the eye patch is, but I hope Dog kicks his ass during their trial-by-arms.
I mean, as long as he doesn't harm the cross-dressing little girl (sorry I forget her name) then Dog is cool in my book.

I LOVED the scene between Cersei and Daddy Lannister.
she's like "f*ck this father/son bullsh*t, I'm your loyal little girl." and he's like "shut up bitch you're not half as smart as you pretend to be." lol.gif wow what a cold hearted prick he is. he really doesn't care about any of his children or what's going on outside of his own head.

the Eunuch is definitely a good storyteller.
"hey remember how I don't have any dick or balls? yeah well, here's exactly how it happened in extreme detail. and HERE'S the guy responsible for doing it; tied up with his mouth sewn shut delivered to me in a box."
AWESOME. the fact that he raised himself to be in the position he is by scrounging and eating sh*t for most of his life. just digging and clawing his way to comfort and luxury. and now he wields power through his vast network of connections with the shady underworld from whence he came! one my favorite characters.

and of course Dany wins the day again with her dragons and slave army rebellion.
it was pretty clear exactly what was going to happen the moment we learned about the slaves. Dany offers dragon. Dany gets slaves. Dany uses slaves to take back dragon and move on. but it was still pretty incredible when it finally happened. this dumbass guy who kept calling her a bitch and a whore - not realizing that she understood him - was pretty ignorant for the ruler of such a massive city.
he doesn't see this coming? the moment he hands over the "whip" she turns it against him and goes back on the deal. hello? it isn't rocket science.
and none of his advisers knew that Dany could speak their language?

what a moron. got what was coming to him I guess.
but now Dany has SO FAR TO TRAVEL. how is she gonna' feed all these guys? how is she gonna' be able to build enough ships to cross the ocean with them??

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#719

Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (ajbns87 @ Tuesday, Apr 23 2013, 18:27)
Great great great episode. The last scene was brilliant,
How far away is she from King's Landing?

Joffrey better watch out.

The whole Night's Watch stuff, got really messy ! I really thought Sam was going to call him a bastard, but then the random dude did. I guess in the books there was a lot more build up to this whole scene?

The bald eunuch guy, Vaesaerys has some great lines. What did he say about Little Finger, if it meant the whole world burning, he'd want to be King of the ashes'

I loved the line about Littlefinger. I'm not sure if its in the books or not but its very true regarding Lord Belish. If you look at all the destruction caused in Kings Landing and the War of the 5 Kings, Littlefinger had a hand in all of it. Littlefinger is a parasite but man is he entertaining to watch/read about.

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#720

Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE (man dragon @ Tuesday, Apr 23 2013, 09:42)
QUOTE (darthYENIK @ Monday, Apr 22 2013, 20:02)
@man dragon, I can see where you're coming from.  In ADWD Dany's story is kind of boring.  But I trust the producers of the show to punch those scenes up, like they did with her in Qarth.  I really hope there's a few scenes with Barristan training his knights in Meereen.  But you got to admit the fighting pit scene is probably one of the best action scenes in the books.  Well worth reading through the boring stuff to get to.

That was a good scene, you're right. I just find that most of the characters with her seem to echo my sentiment. For example when she spurns Quentyn for Hizdahr. The f*ck is wrong with her? She could combine her army with one of the most powerful Houses in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros and she doesn't because he's not "comely." The thing is, everyone wants to see Dany get to Westeros because that's been her goal from the very beginning, she's had chances to go and she hasn't taken them. Why? I find her to be a spoiled little girl above all else and a terrible ruler to boot. At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if she goes insane and becomes a shadow of her father, turning into the Mad Queen, obsessed with power and revenge.

Jon on the other hand, is up in the North doing everything he can to protect the Kingdoms from impending doom. He wants to hold no lands or win no glory, as per his vows - he just wants to do what's right. Even though he has no "f*ck yes!" moments like the Dracarys scene, he's still a far better character in my mind.

Don't get me started on Tyrion...

So you don't like Tyrion?

Oh, and I think Jon's "f*ck yes!" moment is when he's appointed lord commander.




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