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Should marijuana be legalised?

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Mikeol1987
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#91

Posted 17 May 2011 - 11:05 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ May 17 2011, 18:02)

Oddly, I don't know a single person who experiences heightened senses when stoned. Interestingly, in the UK, there was a fashion a few years back for regular cannabis users to indulge in disassociative anaesthetics like Ketamine on a regular basis. I can certainly see similarities in the experience, especially at non-anaesthetic doses. Personally, I think you'd struggle to argue that either has any positive effect on the senses- but then again, a perception of heightened senses is very different to the reality.

Totally agree with that. Being high always makes me very docile and my senses are relaxed, and my attention span decreases.

I do not believe it has been emphatically PROVEN that there isn't a link between cannabis and mental health issues, I'm sorry... but not all the buttons have been pressed, if you get me. especially with street bud the way it is.

It definitely shouldn't be legal commerically, only medically. I Believe in it medically.

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#92

Posted 17 May 2011 - 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Darrel @ May 18 2011, 03:40)
Its just asking for problems, period.

If you turn this into a moral argument, you will never win. You're proposing violent coercion as a means to solve social problems (ie, social engineering). If that's what you want, you don't have a leg to stand on, ethically speaking. Since when are all of societies problems my responsibility as a tax payer?

QUOTE
Moral - Not everyone who smokes marijuana will become a drug addict, but every drug addict has smoked marijuana before.

Yeah, you're not going to start on heroin. What's your point?

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#93

Posted 18 May 2011 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 17 2011, 22:08)
QUOTE (finn4life @ May 17 2011, 13:33)
Marijuana can have effects such as:
-Poor memory (same with alcohol)
-Lung cancer (same as cigarettes if you smoke it)
-Throat cancer (dame as cigarettes if you smoke it)

A big thing is that it can trigger brain disorders such as Schizophrenia if it is there in your brain.

But that should be the individuals choice, with alcohol if there is liver cancer in your family its best if you lay off the alcohol, i don't see how marijuana is any worse than those two (alcohol and ciggies), in Holland they legalized it and marijuana use has not really increased.

I understand why crack, and heroin and speed are illegal, but marijuana is not so bad.

P.S it bugs me how people say there are absolutely no side effects, that is ignorance.
It would be like me saying alcohol has no side effects whatsoever, the facts are there, its just facts about marijuana are distorted by more often than not users.

Ganja doesn't impair memory. I'm a heavy smoker and have been smoking for a while now, and my memory has actually got better, both short and long term. I find it much easier than before I started smoking to remember things. Ganja is proven to cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus, which plays a major part in memory and learning.

The thing with memory for people who smoke ganja is that it's not that you can't remember things, it's just that some people don't pay attention to things that aren't really necessary. I have this after I started smoking ganja too, basically if there's something I want to remember, I'll remember it perfectly, but I no longer pay attention to things that are unnecessary. It's kinda hard to describe, but it's NOT memory impairment.

Ganja does not cause lung cancer (or any cancer for that matter), even if you smoke it. There has not been a single independent study which has linked smoking ganja to cause cancer. Infact, ganja is proven to cure lung cancer as well as throat cancer as well as help prevent all types of cancers.

Ganja does not cause schizophrenia. That's one of the stupidest lies anti-ganja organisations have come out with. Ganja has been proven to help schizophrenics much more than anything Big Pharma has on offer.

I mean let's forget the studies for a second, I haven't met a single person who smokes ganja and leads a healthy lifestyle whose memory is impaired, has been diagnosed with any sort of cancer (linked to ganja) or is a schizophrenic and I know a lot of heavy smokers.

Oh and while drinking and driving is not a wise thing to do, driving stoned is perfectly safe:



I know loads of people who drive stoned and they drive perfectly, some are amateur drivers as well.

In response to the topic, yes it should definitely be legalised.

Edit: a couple more studies about the great medicinal values of ganja:

Ganja improves memory

Anti-bacterial properties of ganja

Antioxidant and neuroprotective properties of ganja

Ganja cures leukaemia

Yeah, right.

I am not against marijuana but it bugs me how people say it is 100% harmless.

My older brother started smoking pot and developed schizophrenia a while after heavy use.
There is a good chance he would have developed it anyway but smoking pot definitely did not help his cause.
Pot does increase risk of lung cancer, especially if you roll joints with paper.
Pot does affect your memory after time.

I think it should be legal but don't distort the facts.


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#94

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:06 PM Edited by Warlord., 18 May 2011 - 12:08 PM.

QUOTE (finn4life @ May 18 2011, 15:56)
QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 17 2011, 22:08)
QUOTE (finn4life @ May 17 2011, 13:33)
Marijuana can have effects such as:
-Poor memory (same with alcohol)
-Lung cancer (same as cigarettes if you smoke it)
-Throat cancer (dame as cigarettes if you smoke it)

A big thing is that it can trigger brain disorders such as Schizophrenia if it is there in your brain.

But that should be the individuals choice, with alcohol if there is liver cancer in your family its best if you lay off the alcohol, i don't see how marijuana is any worse than those two (alcohol and ciggies), in Holland they legalized it and marijuana use has not really increased.

I understand why crack, and heroin and speed are illegal, but marijuana is not so bad.

P.S it bugs me how people say there are absolutely no side effects, that is ignorance.
It would be like me saying alcohol has no side effects whatsoever, the facts are there, its just facts about marijuana are distorted by more often than not users.

Ganja doesn't impair memory. I'm a heavy smoker and have been smoking for a while now, and my memory has actually got better, both short and long term. I find it much easier than before I started smoking to remember things. Ganja is proven to cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus, which plays a major part in memory and learning.

The thing with memory for people who smoke ganja is that it's not that you can't remember things, it's just that some people don't pay attention to things that aren't really necessary. I have this after I started smoking ganja too, basically if there's something I want to remember, I'll remember it perfectly, but I no longer pay attention to things that are unnecessary. It's kinda hard to describe, but it's NOT memory impairment.

Ganja does not cause lung cancer (or any cancer for that matter), even if you smoke it. There has not been a single independent study which has linked smoking ganja to cause cancer. Infact, ganja is proven to cure lung cancer as well as throat cancer as well as help prevent all types of cancers.

Ganja does not cause schizophrenia. That's one of the stupidest lies anti-ganja organisations have come out with. Ganja has been proven to help schizophrenics much more than anything Big Pharma has on offer.

I mean let's forget the studies for a second, I haven't met a single person who smokes ganja and leads a healthy lifestyle whose memory is impaired, has been diagnosed with any sort of cancer (linked to ganja) or is a schizophrenic and I know a lot of heavy smokers.

Oh and while drinking and driving is not a wise thing to do, driving stoned is perfectly safe:



I know loads of people who drive stoned and they drive perfectly, some are amateur drivers as well.

In response to the topic, yes it should definitely be legalised.

Edit: a couple more studies about the great medicinal values of ganja:

Ganja improves memory

Anti-bacterial properties of ganja

Antioxidant and neuroprotective properties of ganja

Ganja cures leukaemia

Yeah, right.

I am not against marijuana but it bugs me how people say it is 100% harmless.

My older brother started smoking pot and developed schizophrenia a while after heavy use.
There is a good chance he would have developed it anyway but smoking pot definitely did not help his cause.
Pot does increase risk of lung cancer, especially if you roll joints with paper.
Pot does affect your memory after time.

I think it should be legal but don't distort the facts.

I've already provided proof that ganja does not cause any of the things you mentioned. Go through all my posts and the evidence I've provided.

Ganja has been proven to not cause any mental illnesses here and here.

Ganja has been proven to really help schizophrenia.

Your brother did not develop schizophrenia by smoking ganja. Tell him to smoke a high CBD strain like R-4, Harlequin, Phnom Penh or Cannatonic and his schizophrenia will be gone. CBD is a very strong antipsychotic which is very effective at treating all mental illnesses. It is used to cure schizphrenia, ADHD, OCD, social anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc.

Rolling papers are made of non-carcinogenic materials such as ganja. Ganja has been proven to not cause lung cancer and has been proven to cure lung cancer (just like how ganja can cure and prevent all types of cancers).

Ganja is proven to cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus of the brain which is responsible for memory and learning. It improves memory. I'm one of the millions of living examples of this. Ganja is used by Alzheimer's patients to stop their memory from degenerating (as it causes neurogenesis), so I guess these patients are simply lying when they report that their memory has greatly improved eh? sigh.gif

No one is distorting the facts here, it's just that some people can't accept the fact that ganja is harmless and still haven't realised the cycle ganja has been going through in the world ever since it was made illegal:

1. Anti-ganja organisations make up a lie about ganja, usually something alone the lines that it severely affects one's health and therefore should be kept illegal and spread this lie

2. All anti-ganja people start using this lie as an argument as to why ganja is 'harmful' and should be kept illegal

3. Studies come out disproving these lies

4. Anti-ganja organisations abandon the lie to not discredit themselves

The cycle repeats in that order.

I'm sure that the people who think ganja causes mental illnesses, for example, are the same people who would have believed that it kills brain cells when the lie was being spread by anti-ganja organisations.

I mean take this whole lie about how ganja 'causes mental illnesses', anti-ganja organisations started spreading this lie after it was disproven that ganja causes brain damage and proven that ganja causes neurogenesis and has neuroprotective properties. What's happening now? Studies are coming out disproving these lies and are proving how ganja can cure mental illnesses anti-ganja organisations are saying it causes.

How many times have lies that say ganja is 'harmful' been disproven in the past?

When this lie is disproven completely, anti-ganja organisations will make up a new lie and start spreading it. This is what's been happening ever since ganja has been made illegal.

I truly can't believe that there are people who actually fall for these scare tactics, it's a good thing there are people in the world who know the truth about ganja and its harmlessness. All of you people who believe it is harmful, just remember the cycle I mentioned above.

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#95

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Melchior @ May 17 2011, 15:57)
QUOTE (TheCacti @ May 18 2011, 01:40)
There are grounds for a tax. It's a multi billion dollar industry and the more commerce it generates, the more society could benefit from even the smallest of taxes (e.g. schools, teachers' wages, parks, repairing roads, reducing the deficit, etc etc..)

And why is this our responsibility, specifically? If you feel that more money needs to be raised through taxation, then increase the sales tax, don't expect one group to pay disproportionate taxes.

I know this is a very late reply, but you deserve one at the very least.

It's our responsibility as citizens to care about the well being of our society and all its facets, especially education. I don't share your idea of "us and them" when it comes to contributing towards beneficial gov't programs. If I can make monetary contributions to programs designed for the well-being of an entire population with respect to each gram of herb that I consume, I would personally have no problem with it. Besides, I feel the price would virtually be the same post-tax as it is now if legalization were to occur. Legalization -> increase in production (i.e. much greater supply, paired with the idea that demand would be more or less the same. This is debatable, but let's be frank, people who want to smoke are already doing so, regardless of its illegality) -> drop in price. Then add the sales tax + specific tax and we're looking at a price that wouldn't be much different than what we're already paying, if not less. Difference in this case is, as sivispacem said: " [the money would be] going to government, than all of it going to an industry with intrinsic connections to organised crime." An improvement I'd say.

Nor do I share your view regarding the idea that smokers would be paying "disproportionate taxes" if marijuana were to be taxed. According to such logic, lots of other groups are being singled out in the same manner: property owners, wealthy people, higher income earners. Lots of different groups are already paying disproportionate taxes with respect to other groups of people. Weed smokers aren't that special.
QUOTE (Melchior)
If you're for legalising marijuana with tax, then you're for a marijuana tax on top of the sales tax. If you're just talking about sales tax, you don't need to explicitly state that you're in favour of it, all transactions require sales tax and weed would be no exception. I'm for treating it like a normal commodity.

I'll admit that after reading your first posts on the subject of taxation I was under the impression that you're against even a sales tax, which is an inane idea, and that's what prompted me to give the response I did. I must've misinterpreted what you'd written, my mistake.

But the fact of the matter is, it's not just a normal commodity. It's a psychoactive substance that can sometimes inflict long-term repercussions on one's health, and should be treated accordingly. Sivispacem really hit the nail on the head with his "several reasons" post a page ago about the affect and burden it'd have on the healthcare system and the need to compensate for it.

QUOTE (Melchior)
Saying you're for legalising weed with restrictions implies that you're in favour of it not being allowed in public, or only allowing certain companies to produce it, or only letting individuals buy a certain amount at a time or some other arbitrary measures that do nothing positive. Legalise it without restrictions and the appropriate restrictions will appear where necessary, just like with literally everything else.

That's a fair point and I can easily reason with it. I'll be honest and say that I'm not even sure where I stand on this issue, because I see many positives and negatives alike. But ultimately I think for a substance that can alter the way people think and behave really ought to have some restrictions with its use in public places, driving being a major one.

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#96

Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:14 PM

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 13:06)
How many times have lies that say ganja is 'harmful' been disproven in the past?

Oh, about as many times as studies have proven there are links between it and various illnesses.

I honestly don't know how you can be so narrow-minded and deluded as to ignore all the evidence that does suggest it has negative effects. It's utterly absurd that you don't seem to understand that there is a chance that it is dangerous. You are no better and no less deluded than those people who claim it's dangerous without good reason. In fact, you're essentially the same. I just can't take anything you say seriously, your attitude to the entire thing is so stupidly closed-minded. Just because you can find some reports saying it has beneficial effects does not mean that that is catagorically the case, just the same as those articles that draw links between it and lung cancer or mental illness do not mean that it is dangerous in all cases and all circumstances.

Your attitude is absurd and misguided.

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#97

Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:42 PM

All I can tell you is to remember the cycle I mentioned when the lies that are currently being spread by anti-ganja organisations are disproven. They're already disproven anyway.

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#98

Posted 18 May 2011 - 04:02 PM

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 14:42)
All I can tell you is to remember the cycle I mentioned when the lies that are currently being spread by anti-ganja organisations are disproven. They're already disproven anyway.

Well how about the articles that dispute those articles then? Just because there isn't scientific consensus on an issue doesn't give a sensible, impartial observer the impression that one side is categorically right, and the other is categorically wrong. All you do by completely ignoring the legitimate research on one side of the argument is weaken your own position. You claim you have provided "proof"- well, in the scientific world, the conclusions of a paper are not proof, they are theory, as no paper can be large enough, no study in enough depth, to explore all the possible circumstances that could alter the effects of substances. So no, you've not provided proof. You've provided evidence to support your argument, but it's not proof any more than the evidence I've supported my arguments with hast been.

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#99

Posted 18 May 2011 - 06:05 PM

I have a question which most likely a lot of you have the answer to; does Marijuana change your voice? I know cigarettes do but does cannabis have the same effect?

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#100

Posted 18 May 2011 - 06:11 PM

QUOTE (blitz. @ May 18 2011, 19:05)
I have a question which most likely a lot of you have the answer to; does Marijuana change your voice? I know cigarettes do but does cannabis have the same effect?

Smoking usually affects range first -- after smoking for a while you'll notice you have a harder time hitting the high notes or the low ones.

Marijuana smoke is not as bad as tobacco smoke, but it's still smoke. The smoke is harsher and harder on your lungs/larynx if you don't separate your weed very well and there's any stems/etc left in it. If you want to preserve your voice, try using a vaporizer, or even better -- cook with it and let your digestive system absorb it instead of your lungs.

---

A great deal depends on physical health. While the vocal chords are not muscles, they are attached to muscles and tendons and of course your lungs and diaphragm play a huge amount to breath control. If you are over tired, ill, worn out, all of these take a toll on your muscles.

The human body and lungs have a wonderful ability to self-clean. All those 10's of thousands of years living in the caves with smokey fires. This doesn't mean you should add more smoke and pollutants to your system, just pointing out that the body can remove a great deal of toxins and smoke when it is healthy and rested.

Smoking pot once a week shouldn't have an effect on your voice -- though I wouldn't sing right after smoking as your throat is irritated at that point by heat and particulate matter.

And that is in fact the culprit you want to avoid whenever possible. And yes, drinking cool (not cold) water between puffs works well to keep the natural protective swelling down to a minimal.

Damage to the vocal chords comes from swelling and then rubbing of the chords. Avoid this and you can protect the chords.

Naturally if you are using your chords to sing Grand Opera and you are a High tenor or Coloratura, I would advise not smoking at all but I don't think that is the variety of singing you are interested in.

Source.

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#101

Posted 18 May 2011 - 06:36 PM

QUOTE (sivispacem @ May 18 2011, 21:32)
QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 14:42)
All I can tell you is to remember the cycle I mentioned when the lies that are currently being spread by anti-ganja organisations are disproven. They're already disproven anyway.

Well how about the articles that dispute those articles then? Just because there isn't scientific consensus on an issue doesn't give a sensible, impartial observer the impression that one side is categorically right, and the other is categorically wrong. All you do by completely ignoring the legitimate research on one side of the argument is weaken your own position. You claim you have provided "proof"- well, in the scientific world, the conclusions of a paper are not proof, they are theory, as no paper can be large enough, no study in enough depth, to explore all the possible circumstances that could alter the effects of substances. So no, you've not provided proof. You've provided evidence to support your argument, but it's not proof any more than the evidence I've supported my arguments with hast been.

If you had noticed, all of the studies you posted that spread the lies about ganja being harmful are older than the studies I posted which disprove these lies.

All of the 'studies' you posted have been disproven.

Why would you continue to believe in studies which have been disproven? What's the point of new research findings if people continue to stick to things which are proven to be wrong?

For example, should people continue to believe in the lie that ganja kills brain cells when ganja is proven to cause neurogenesis in multiple studies?

Should people continue to believe the lie that ganja causes mental illnesses when there are multiple studies which have proven that ganja does not cause mental illnesses and that it has the capability to cure mental illnesses?

Should people continue to believe the lie that ganja impairs memory when it's proven in multiple studies to cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus which is responsible for memory and learning and is used by Alzheimer's patients to stop their memory from degenerating?

Common sense would show you that ganja is harmless. Like I've said before, if ganja truly causes mental illnesses, why is it that not a single popular figure who smokes ganja heavily (like Tommy Chong, Ed Rosenthal, Snoop Dogg, Wiz Khalifa, etc), display psychotic symptoms? I understand that you're not saying ganja causes mental illnesses in everyone, but surely it would cause mental illnesses in atleast one of the people I mentioned previously, especially considering how they have been heavy smokers for the majority of their lives.

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#102

Posted 18 May 2011 - 06:46 PM

The celebrities you listed are a small sample and there's a problem with even using that argument: actors and musicians are functional people, and people with something like schizophrenia rarely are.

There is no way the reefer is harmless. You have to be honest with yourself. It's easy to cherry pick research that supports your views, and by the way, just because some paper is newer than another and has a different conclusion, it doesn't mean that it disproved the older one. You have to make sure first that the methodology is same in both publications, for starters. I'm pretty sure most researchers/scientists would agree that weed is less harmful than alcohol, but any kind of drug will have its negative effects.

Also, there is a link between certain mental illnesses and marijuana smoking. It's statistically significant, but it's not an easy job to find out what causes it. It might be the reefer, the illness, or a third factors, or a combination of two or more of the aforementioned. But the conclusion is clear: if you're a marijuana smoker, you have a higher chance of being schizophrenic. That's a statistical fact, just like the fact that if you're an 18-year-old male, you have a higher chance of being in a car accident. The catch in that last factlet though is that you're either a passenger of a young driver or are driving yourself. The thing is, we don't know what that "catch" is in the weed-schizophrenia link.

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#103

Posted 18 May 2011 - 06:52 PM Edited by sivispacem, 18 May 2011 - 06:56 PM.

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 19:36)
If you had noticed, all of the studies you posted that spread the lies about ganja being harmful are older than the studies I posted which disprove these lies.

Mental illness
2007
2009
2010

Cancer
2008
2009
2010 (required Athens, accepts difficulty in establishing effective control groups)

Care to reconsider your statement? How are these studies any less valid than the mid-2000's ones you posted?
Common sense would indicate inhaling burning anything would be harmful. Of course, there are other methods of taking it, but common sense would also dictate that anything that substantially alters brain chemistry can potentially be harmful. Common sense is not on your side.

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#104

Posted 18 May 2011 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE (nlitement @ May 19 2011, 00:16)
The celebrities you listed are a small sample and there's a problem with even using that argument: actors and musicians are functional people, and people with something like schizophrenia rarely are.

There is no way the reefer is harmless. You have to be honest with yourself. It's easy to cherry pick research that supports your views, and by the way, just because some paper is newer than another and has a different conclusion, it doesn't mean that it disproved the older one. You have to make sure first that the methodology is same in both publications, for starters. I'm pretty sure most researchers/scientists would agree that weed is less harmful than alcohol, but any kind of drug will have its negative effects.

Also, there is a link between certain mental illnesses and marijuana smoking. It's statistically significant, but it's not an easy job to find out what causes it. It might be the reefer, the illness, or a third factors, or a combination of two or more of the aforementioned. But the conclusion is clear: if you're a marijuana smoker, you have a higher chance of being schizophrenic. That's a statistical fact, just like the fact that if you're an 18-year-old male, you have a higher chance of being in a car accident. The catch in that last factlet though is that you're either a passenger of a young driver or are driving yourself. The thing is, we don't know what that "catch" is in the weed-schizophrenia link.

I only provided a few examples as I couldn't list every single popular figure who smokes ganja. However, even among the people I listed, not all of them are actors and musicians.

The people who are actors and musicians are functional even though they smoke ganja because ganja doesn't cause mental illnesses.

It has been proven that ganja doesn't cause mental illnesses and that it really helps schizophrenics.

I can't believe people still believe this lie and are spreading it even when it's been disproven for a while, but I guess people will realise the truth soon, just like they did with the lie about ganja killing brain cells.

Ganja is harmless, however, you're free to think otherwise. Hopefully both you and sivispacem will realise it's harmless nature at some point. smile.gif

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#105

Posted 18 May 2011 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 20:18)
I can't believe people still believe this lie and are spreading it even when it's been disproven for a while, but I guess people will realise the truth soon, just like they did with the lie about ganja killing brain cells.

I can't believe you're so astonishingly high and mighty about the entire thing.
The evidence you have presented is no more compelling than the evidence I have. Just about any rational person can see that the area is a grey and muddy one, filled with conflicting information and contrasting studies. Anyone who thinks that the studies they believe are somehow of more value, more reputable or "right", without being able to provide some kind of justification for such a blinkered and absurd belief, is just as deluded as those who claim that all drugs are bad just because there's an established status quo.

I'm more than happy to see final, categorical proof that cannabis is harmless. In fact, I'd willingly admit that my scepticism was utterly unfounded under such circumstances. But until someone manages to provide irrefutable evidence either way, anyone with more than even the most juvenile understanding of the subject needs to be open to the possibility that either side is right. If yon want to continue failing to accept that there is a possibility, then that's your choice, but answer me this- if there was a large-scale, independent study with carefully controlled test groups, long-term analysis of data sources and all the other bells and whistles that make a study difficult to refute- that indicated cannabis was dangerous, would you believe it? I suggest not- you have been suckered into the pro-cannabis propaganda the same way that many have been sucked into the anti-drug propaganda.

Your attitude bears all the hallmarks of near-religious fanaticism.

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#106

Posted 18 May 2011 - 07:44 PM

Regarding mental illnesses, the majority of people who have mental illnesses who smoke ganja started after they developed whatever mental illness it is that they have. This is a widely held view.

As for cancer, saying ganja causes cancer is just denying the experiences of countless people who have cured themselves of cancer, some of whom were deemed 'uncurable', by using ganja.

I have already provided studies which show that there is no link between smoking ganja and lung cancer and I've also provided studies which show how ganja cures lung cancer.

As I've said countless times now, don't take any study for granted without taking the experiences of people who use ganja into account. To this date, there hasn't been a single person proven to have developed cancer or any mental illness by using ganja.

However, there are many studies which have shown how effective ganja is at curing and preventing all types of cancers and mental illnesses and there are numerous people who have cancer and mental illnesses who use ganja to self-medicate successfully.

I don't take a single study which doesn't agree with the experiences of people who smoke ganja seriously, no matter if it's pro-ganja or anti-ganja.

I don't think there's any point in me discussing this with you further as I doubt you'll budge from your beliefs. Hopefully, at some point you yourself will realise the truth. smile.gif

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#107

Posted 18 May 2011 - 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 18 2011, 20:44)
To this date, there hasn't been a single person proven to have developed cancer or any mental illness by using ganja.

What about the increases in cancer and mental illness in the sample groups in the 6 papers I posted, then? How do you explain those?

Hopefully, at some point, you will realise that your position is essentially untenable and accept that there is an element of doubt in the subject.

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#108

Posted 19 May 2011 - 02:42 PM

A close friend of mine ended up with schizophrenia and he was told it was down to smoking weed and given the fact that every time he starts smoking (regularly) again, he ends up getting re-committed - I'm inclined to agree with them. Another friend, not such a close one, same illness also a regular smoker - though I don't know 100% if it was down to weed but I do know he don't smoke no more. Can't say I've got off scot free from being a daily smoker since my mid-teens either, in fact pretty much everyone I know that has been taking drugs for the past 15 years-ish has run into problems at some point with mental health, the ones who didn't seem to be the ones who started later at around 18-20 ish. A significantly older friend (fifty something or other) swears that weed has never hurt anyone’s mind but he never started smoking until his twenties, we were smoking skunk from 14 onwards (thou at 14-15 it wasn't very much but at 16 when you hit the labour market your funds grow and so do your habits) I believe its down to if your brain is still developing or not, honestly the kids would be better of with pure heroin than skunk, it's a far safer drug than weed, technically that is, obviously its very hard to get pure heroin so its somewhat a moot point.

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#109

Posted 19 May 2011 - 02:56 PM Edited by Warlord., 19 May 2011 - 03:12 PM.

An extensive study which shows that ganja doesn't cause schizophrenia.

Another study.

Smoking ganja during adolescence proven to not have any changes on brain structure.

But if you want to continue to think that it was ganja that caused schizophrenia in your friends, go ahead. smile.gif

Oh and a high CBD strain like R-4, Harlequin, Phnom Penh or Cannatonic will really help with your friends' schizophrenia.

Edit: This article addresses the lie being spread by anti-ganja organisations that ganja causes mental illnesses very well

QUOTE
From his own research amongst 176 schizophrenia patients, van Dijk discovered that a lot of the patients smoke cannabis to combat the side effects of psychosis preventing medication.


Another study which explains how the 'studies' which claim ganja causes mental illnesses are severely flawed

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#110

Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:06 PM

Well, weed may not change the chemical structure of the brain, may or may not cause schizophrenia, but it sure does affect the mind long term.

I've been smoking for a long time, and I can tell that I've changed. It twisted my perception of reality, and I generally look at things very differently than I used to.

I can't really tell if it's for worse or for the better, but I seem to over analyze everything I see. I do the same thing when I'm very stoned.

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#111

Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:14 PM

Warlord, you talked about how studies and such do not take into account the users' experiences (qualitatively), well, there you have it, there are many people who got schizophrenia or other mental issues after smoking the reefer. Just saying, you can't ignore some papers and talk about the ones that support your view, by claiming that the former don't match certain testimonies. The thing is, testimonial evidence is not scientific. You can talk to people whose lives were made worse by weed, and you can also find people to whom it has been extremely helpful (like many MS patients). Still, it doesn't prove anything. I don't understand why you couldn't even own up a little to the principle of everything-in-moderation. Everything has its harmful effects, including cannabis.

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#112

Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:27 PM Edited by Warlord., 19 May 2011 - 03:35 PM.

Ganja does not cause any mental illnesses.

Just look at the world. There are millions of people who smoke ganja, among them are heavy users. If ganja truly caused schizophrenia, the amount of schizophrenics in the world would not be stable at 1%. There's no way. If these 'studies' which spread the lie that ganja causes mental illnesses are true, around a quarter of the world atleast would be schizophrenics, especially considering how ganja use has been steadily increasing.

What about Rastafarians? Surely the majority of the Rastafarian community will be schizophrenic if ganja caused schizophrenia?

Since schizophrenia is the latest lie that anti-ganja organisations are spreading, it's almost completely useless to try to convince a person who believes in this nonsense otherwise.

Basically saying that ganja doesn't cause mental illnesses today is like saying ganja doesn't make one go crazy in the 50s.

But hey, in time, this lie will vanish, just like how the lies about ganja killing brain cells, causing cancer, etc did.

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#113

Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:42 PM

I think the historical argument is somewhat moot as the problem is very specifically with skunk, your right that natural weed never hurt anyone’s mind, only their lungs.

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#114

Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:50 PM

You bring up a good point there, vinny. I don't know what it is with the current obsession with super-high THC content strains. THC is the chemical that has psychotic properties that cause anxiety and such, but in natural weed, is balanced by cannabidiols (which has anti-psychotic properties). It seems that these days you either have to get crazy 30% THC skunk or crappy cut weed with 3% THC, not many quality low-to-medium THC strains that I ever found.

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#115

Posted 19 May 2011 - 03:51 PM Edited by Warlord., 19 May 2011 - 03:56 PM.

Skunk is a strain of ganja. So what I said applies to Skunk as well.

Unless your Skunk was laced with something nasty there's no way it's the cause for your friend's schizophrenia.

There are strains with much higher THC levels today than Skunk by the way and the schizophrenia rates still continue to be stable at ~1%.

Oh and I'm not a fan of irresponsible breeding where strains are bred just to have insanely high THC levels and breeding out all other cannabinoids such as CBD which are of great medicinal value and plays a part in the high as well. wink.gif But strains which have imbalanced THC to other cannabinoid ratios aren't going to cause schizophrenia, sure they're likely to cause paranoia while you're high but it's not going to continue once the high wears off.

Smoking ganja has been proven to not cause lung cancer. Ganja has also been proven to cure lung cancer.

If you don't want to smoke it, you can always vape it or make it into edible form. smile.gif

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#116

Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:16 PM

Like I siad I'm a daily smoker but I'm not going to kid myself that I'm doing myself any good by smoking it. I have absolutely no intention of stopping even if I do go stark raving mad or can barely breath through my long suffering lungs. But I like drugs in general, I do think society has not simply taken a wrong turn in relation to drugs they've driven off a cliff but it pains me that some whose personal preference is weed treat it like the only righteous struggle in town when it isn’t the safest drug you can take. Everyone should be taking pure heroin and munching on magic mushrooms as well as smoking natural weed and hell pethidine is a good thing to shoot up, knocks the air right out of you while you grin like a loon, ah good times.

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#117

Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:20 PM

Even people who smoke ganja and have schizophrenia say that it was not ganja that caused their schizophrenia, but the 'researchers' involved in spreading the lie that ganja causes mental illnesses don't care about what people with actual experience have to say.

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#118

Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Warlord. @ May 19 2011, 17:20)
Even people who smoke ganja and have schizophrenia say that it was not ganja that caused their schizophrenia, but the 'researchers' involved in spreading the lie that ganja causes mental illnesses don't care about what people with actual experience have to say.

Asking somebody who is mentally ill about what caused their mental illness is perhaps not the best way to figure out what is the actual cause of their mental illness. That is simply a collation of opinions and is not really a study.

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#119

Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:31 PM

Your know that the truth is still unknown right? They suspect that cannabis is at the very least a contributing factor to the onset of schizophrenia in a small number of people but they don't actually know. Which is exactly the same for the experts views your taking as gospel - they don't know either, so all this, "It's been proven" stuff is an exaggeration, you really should say "That based on what I've personally experienced and what I've read/seen, I like many others speculate that weed is in fact completely safe but I could be wrong it‘s just an educated guess" Because you can't possibly know, can you?

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#120

Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE (vinnygorgeous @ May 19 2011, 22:01)
Your know that the truth is still unknown right? They suspect that cannabis is at the very least a contributing factor to the onset of schizophrenia in a small number of people but they don't actually know. Which is exactly the same for the experts views your taking as gospel - they don't know either, so all this, "It's been proven" stuff is an exaggeration, you really should say "That based on what I've personally experienced and what I've read/seen, I like many others speculate that weed is in fact completely safe but I could be wrong it‘s just an educated guess" Because you can't possibly know, can you?

While I can't speak for schizophrenia, I have in the past been diagnosed with severe OCD and social anxiety. Long story short, I cured myself when I started smoking ganja. I mean if ganja truly causes mental illnesses, my OCD and social anxiety would've surely gotten worse, right? I really can't tell you how thankful I am to ganja for curing me.

@Josh, The people who were interviewed are functional schizophrenics, bro. If they weren't functional, they wouldn't have been able to acknowledge the fact that they are schizophrenic (which they did). wink.gif




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