Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Should marijuana be legalised?

550 replies to this topic
Raavi
  • Raavi

    Z

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 27 Jan 2012
  • European-Union
  • Best Moderator 2015
    Best Moderator 2014
    Winner of World Cup 2014 Prediction League
    Best Forum Ledby 2013
    Most Improved 2013

#511

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:14 PM Edited by Raavi, 22 May 2013 - 06:16 PM.

Virtually all narcotics, and weed in particular are essentially innocuous as the only one that potentially encounters a negative effect is the user him or herself. There is no gain whatsoever in imprisoning someone using taxpayer money, for using a plant one purchased for recreational/medicinal purposes. The governments and namely the US government engendered this entire drug war/exponential rise in drug crime themselves. It's quite logical really; if you prohibit the people from purchasing/using a certain product you essentially 'create' a group of individuals that want to make money of off selling these prohibited products to people i.e you create dealers and all the (violent)crime that ensue from their presence and business. It's the "their loss, your gain mentality"; "the government doesn't optate to profit from this thriving market, fine but I will". Just look at the times of the prohibition, people still wanted to consume alcohol, the need/demand was still there it so they did so via less-than-licit ways up until the government finally decriminalized it again. Same would apply to any product. Say I prohibit people from purchasing and eating candy- I guarantee you a day or so later you would have candy dealers. It's just how this world works. And the argument of it being addictive is also fundamentally erroneous as in essence almost everything can be classified as an addiction and everyone is addicted to multiple non-criminalized things; You watch TV every night: You're addicted to TV. You spend hours a day on the internet: You're addicted to the internet. Some of these addictions can even be much more 'dangerous' than marihuana ever will be. Now they can bring all these drug related crimes down to a minimum by simply legalizing it. Make it readily available. Something the government and their treasury would profit from, both in the short and long. Instead of burning ridiculously high amounts of money by criminalizing it and policing/enforcing this and imprisoning millions of people.
  • iiGh0STt and Niobium like this

MadClownBadDub
  • MadClownBadDub

    Gampo

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 Sep 2011

#512

Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:16 AM

QUOTE (Raavi @ Wednesday, May 22 2013, 18:14)
Virtually all narcotics, and weed in particular are essentially innocuous as the only one that potentially encounters a negative effect is the user him or herself.

Quality post all the way through, but this piece was golden. Truer words have never been spoken, and this should be the backbone of any solid argument for the legalization of mind altering substances.

Distrom
  • Distrom

    Ghetto Star

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Feb 2013
  • Venezuela

#513

Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:12 AM

It should be legalized and taxed, taxed a bit more than cigarettes of course, It's not a "real" drug.

Melchior
  • Melchior

    human right and human gain

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 16 May 2009
  • Unknown

#514

Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:52 AM

QUOTE (Distrom @ Saturday, Jul 6 2013, 11:12)
It should be legalized and taxed, taxed a bit more than cigarettes of course, It's not a "real" drug.

I'm not seeing why there should be any additional tax on it at all tbh.

El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil" ™

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#515

Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:28 AM Edited by El_Diablo, 06 July 2013 - 03:36 AM.

yeah there's no reason for the sales tax on marijuana to exceed that of alcohol.

also, why would it have to be even higher than cigarettes?
if anything the most deadly product should come with the highest taxes. that means tobacco should be taxed the heaviest, followed by alcohol and then marijuana.
  • GTA36362355 likes this

Melchior
  • Melchior

    human right and human gain

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 16 May 2009
  • Unknown

#516

Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:46 AM

I don't think it should be taxed more than any other product. When people say there should be taxes on weed it sounds like they're saying "fine, smoke your weed, but you owe us for not arresting you."

Ari Gold
  • Ari Gold

    Ghetto Star

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2009
  • Australia

#517

Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE (Melchior @ Saturday, Jul 6 2013, 15:46)
I don't think it should be taxed more than any other product. When people say there should be taxes on weed it sounds like they're saying "fine, smoke your weed, but you owe us for not arresting you."

I've always inferred from people who spout that line that they don't really understand how taxation works, nor can they foresee how the business model of people selling marijuana would be altered if it were legalised. They seem to think that upon legalisation, people will just walk out onto the street and sell it in a very "dirty", cash-in-hand way where they don't have to claim anything as official income and don't have to pay any tax on it.

Then again, this is a massive strawman I'm draping upon many people, but I'd like to think that it's a rather sensible inference I'm drawing from their arguments and not an unfounded one. Maybe someone who goes out of their way to mention that marijuana "should be taxed" should clarify what exactly they mean by that.

And, for the record, I don't believe it should be taxed more than any other product. No product should be.

El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil" ™

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#518

Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

QUOTE (Melchior @ Friday, Jul 5 2013, 23:46)
I don't think it should be taxed more than any other product. When people say there should be taxes on weed it sounds like they're saying "fine, smoke your weed, but you owe us for not arresting you."

it still represents a certain kind of lifestyle choice compared to people who stay sober.

I don't mind a tax on marijuana (legal taxed weed is still cheaper than illegal street price weed) as long as it doesn't exceed that of alcohol for obvious reasons.

Melchior
  • Melchior

    human right and human gain

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 16 May 2009
  • Unknown

#519

Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:30 AM

QUOTE (El_Diablo @ Sunday, Jul 7 2013, 08:46)
it still represents a certain kind of lifestyle choice compared to people who stay sober.

You'll have to explain to me why that's relevant.

El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil" ™

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#520

Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:39 AM

it's the same logic behind why life insurance policies are more expensive for people who sky-dive on a regular basis.
someone who smokes and/or drinks is likely taking on a few more health risks than someone who is a teetotal their whole life.

if you want marijuana to be legal it's going to be taxed.
if you want it to be taxed then you might as well tax it like alcohol and send the resulting influx of cash to the local economy through education and business opportunities.

that's how we (in Colorado) devised our legal marijuana bill.
huge chunks of the tax revenue will go straight into state education coffers.

and it doesn't make weed any more expensive than it is on the streets.
legal weed is actually less expensive right now than I've ever seen.
  • *MURDOC* likes this

MasterToothDecayer
  • MasterToothDecayer

    Rat

  • Members
  • Joined: 08 Jul 2013

#521

Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:10 AM

Either ban alcohol or legalize marijuana.

It's hypocritical to have alcohol legal and marijuana illegal, they both can be used responsibly or irresponsibly, they can both be used in groups of friends or alone, and there is more evidence of alcohol's ill effects than marijuana's. And no, I'm not one of those "pot is just a plant, it's safe" fellows. It obviously has ill effects, but not nearly as bad as other drugs in it's schedule, like heroin and LSD (cocaine is even considered safer), and not quite as bad as legal drugs, like tobacco and alcohol.

sivispacem
  • sivispacem

    Skål, jævler!

  • Moderator
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2011
  • European-Union
  • Contribution Award [D&D, General Chat]
    Most Knowledgeable [Vehicles] 2013
    Best Debater 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011

#522

Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:38 AM

Wait, what? LSD comparably harmful to heroin? Numerous scientific studies have demonstrated that LSD has no measurable or demonstrable dangers attributed to it. There's no recorded consistent pattern of ill effect from LSD use at all.
  • *MURDOC* and Xboxless like this

gtamann123
  • gtamann123

    Bang Bang, Skeet Skeet

  • Members
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2008
  • United-States

#523

Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:12 AM

If I was running a state government I would Legalize Marijuana and create a flat sin tax that applies the same rate of taxation to Tobacco, Alcohol, And Marijuana. On top of the existing sales tax. That way there is no argument on one drug receiving different treatment compared to others.  


iiGh0STt
  • iiGh0STt

    Gangsta

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2013
  • Ukraine

#524

Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:16 AM

short and sweet: no different than tobacco, alchohol, or tylenol. a drug is a drug.

weed is illegal because of racist dumbasses in office.

and it could possibly save the us economy (not really, there is no saving it with such things like a "debt ceiling", revolution is inevitable)


D4 Damager
  • D4 Damager

    Listening to the Mandolin Rain...

  • Members
  • Joined: 14 Aug 2013
  • None

#525

Posted 25 March 2014 - 08:13 PM Edited by D4 Damager, 26 March 2014 - 02:28 AM.

If I was running a state government I would Legalize Marijuana and create a flat sin tax that applies the same rate of taxation to Tobacco, Alcohol, And Marijuana. On top of the existing sales tax. That way there is no argument on one drug receiving different treatment compared to others.  

A 'sin tax' implies a certain level of moral judgement on your part. You'd be torn apart by your opponents for that.

 

As an aside, more people drink regularly than smoke weed or cigarettes, so if taxes were raised to the same level as they are currently on cigarettes that would arguably lose you a hell of a lot of votes from drinkers who wouldn't fancy paying that much to have a pint or two.


a20characterusername
  • a20characterusername

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2013
  • None

#526

Posted 04 April 2014 - 02:30 AM Edited by gtarelatedusername2, 04 April 2014 - 02:31 AM.

@iighost: Weed isn't illegal because of "racist asholes in office", it's because of lobbying. I know it's trendy to spin everything into a racial issue, but the War on Drugs has more to do with socioeconomic class than race (though one could argue that socioeconomic standing and race are related, but that's a whole other topic).

 

My home state decriminalized marijuana back in 2008, and I remember doing an interview where I showed just how much money the state was saving by not going after petty drug busts, not just marijuana. In that respect, I'd think that more fiscal conservatives (not to be confused with social conservatives, who are mostly walking Republican stereotypes) would be all about ending the War on Drugs, but very few people in either major party are serious about cutting even a penny from their "team" 's programs.


El Diablo
  • El Diablo

    "The Devil" ™

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 03 Aug 2002
  • Mars
  • April Fools Loser 2015

#527

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:27 AM

@iighost: Weed isn't illegal because of "racist asholes in office", it's because of lobbying. I know it's trendy to spin everything into a racial issue, but the War on Drugs has more to do with socioeconomic class than race (though one could argue that socioeconomic standing and race are related, but that's a whole other topic).

 

actually.... if you want to get super technical, he's correct.

marijuana / hemp was originally made illegal through an explicit campaign of racist fear mongering that occurred during the turn of the last century. blacks and Mexican immigrants were heavily stigmatized as being lazy criminals due to their uncontrollable pot smoking which left them stark-raving mad.

 

that's literally what the popular media would publish in their everyday newspapers and magazines.

the modern Drug War is kept alive through simple defense lobbying. but cannabis prohibition started with race baiting.

  • Melchior likes this

a20characterusername
  • a20characterusername

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2013
  • None

#528

Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:48 AM Edited by gtarelatedusername2, 04 April 2014 - 03:52 AM.

 

@iighost: Weed isn't illegal because of "racist asholes in office", it's because of lobbying. I know it's trendy to spin everything into a racial issue, but the War on Drugs has more to do with socioeconomic class than race (though one could argue that socioeconomic standing and race are related, but that's a whole other topic).

 

actually.... if you want to get super technical, he's correct.

marijuana / hemp was originally made illegal through an explicit campaign of racist fear mongering that occurred during the turn of the last century. blacks and Mexican immigrants were heavily stigmatized as being lazy criminals due to their uncontrollable pot smoking which left them stark-raving mad.

 

that's literally what the popular media would publish in their everyday newspapers and magazines.

the modern Drug War is kept alive through simple defense lobbying. but cannabis prohibition started with race baiting.

 

I know about the Mexican immigration thing last century, along with the (now unlawful) marijuana card catch-22 trick, but that's not why it's illegal today. Back then it was ultimately about lobbying too, since the timber industry had a hard on for going after hemp growers. (many of which were Mexican or of Mexican descent). So, really I can't say which is the *real* reason-- maybe both, maybe something else entirely.

 

As far as race-baiting being used in the drug issue today, sure that's a given, but race-baiting is used in every U.S. political topic, because talking heads know it still grabs ratings, not to mention the old divide and rule tactic that's constantly being used on the U.S. public. I mean, heaven forbid if people ever sat down and realized that they wanted 95% of the same things. Can't have that, heh.

  • Ari Gold likes this

Melchior
  • Melchior

    human right and human gain

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 16 May 2009
  • Unknown

#529

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:38 PM

By what conceivable measure does the American public want "95% of the same things"? What about abortion, gun control, contraceptives, affirmative action, foreign policy, prayer in schools, creation science in schools, radically different levels of public sector vs. private sector involvement, tax rates... and the list goes on. This idea that the American people are some cohesive, united block being convinced of imaginary differences by charlatans with fake ideologies is just silly American nationalism. The rural and urban divide is huge, the coasts and the Midwest are radically different cultures, the socioeconomic divide is as well, and even within that is a massive intellectual divide. Like even in a given city or county's working class, you'd have blue collar Republicans and pro-union Democrats. And that's not even touching on the different races and backgrounds: do terms like "WASP" and "Little Italy" and "ghetto" mean anything to you?

 

Yeah, I hate when people pretend to be the voice of reason. The liberal/conservative dichotomy is a bit more complicated than a nefarious scheme to stop the USA from realising its unprecedented national unity. You'd know that if you knew anything at all about the two ideologies.  


XavMashes
  • XavMashes

    Liberty City guy

  • Members
  • Joined: 09 Feb 2014
  • Uruguay

#530

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:59 PM

Here in Uruguay is legalised. And I have no problem with it. I don't smoke neither I'm gonna do it. But legalisation is the right option because it will receive the same treat as alcohol, for example. It's not only legalised, but it's controled and that is good.


VIPΣR
  • VIPΣR

    Doesn't give up the fight

  • Members
  • Joined: 01 Aug 2012
  • European-Union

#531

Posted 05 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

It should be legalized and taxed everywhere in the world! I'm tired of meeting with a dealer everytime and knowing the fact that there is a possibility that the police could get me. I see no differences between the consumption of alcohol  or marijuana. 

Governements are dumb, because they're missing a lot of money that they could get with Mari and Juana.

  • *MURDOC* and Ari Gold like this

Eris
  • Eris

    Ghetto Star

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2013
  • None

#532

Posted 05 May 2014 - 04:05 PM

Here in Uruguay is legalised. And I have no problem with it. I don't smoke neither I'm gonna do it. But legalisation is the right option because it will receive the same treat as alcohol, for example. It's not only legalised, but it's controled and that is good.

http://www.hightimes...ram-pot-uruguay

 

It's almost like the Uruguayan government is composed of people who aren't drooling idiots.   

  • Ari Gold likes this

a20characterusername
  • a20characterusername

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2013
  • None

#533

Posted 05 May 2014 - 04:19 PM Edited by gtarelatedusername2, 05 May 2014 - 04:24 PM.

By what conceivable measure does the American public want "95% of the same things"?

 

Yeah, I hate when people pretend to be the voice of reason. The liberal/conservative dichotomy is a bit more complicated than a nefarious scheme to stop the USA from realising its unprecedented national unity. You'd know that if you knew anything at all about the two ideologies.  

I'm talking about what people want out of life, not stances on political issues. You're forgetting the large number of politically apathetic people. Not everyone's life revolves around wedge, media-driven issues 24/7.

 

No sh*t it's more nuanced than that, but both ideologies and most of their subsets have been warped to the point where they're both garbage in practice. But again, you fail to realize that only a vocal minority of people are "one issue" types who wear their left/right wing views on their sleeves and allow such issues to define who and what they are as people.


gta dad
  • gta dad

    penis dickling, the goose

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2011
  • None
  • Most Member 2014

#534

Posted 10 May 2014 - 12:03 AM

It's interesting that you bring Uruguay up as an example of recent legislation. In the broad scheme of things its a move in the right direction, but when you look at the policies they have released in regards to the legalisation of marijuana it's a bit of a shame they haven't tried to capitalise on effectively what is going to be one of the first country-wide weed economies. It could really bring in a large cash flow from tourism. I think it's also weak policy to make people register to grow/buy marijuana, as (and I guess this could be considered more of a slippery slope), that those people could be the first targeted by law enforcement if there ever was a change of government that disagreed with the new laws.


XavMashes
  • XavMashes

    Liberty City guy

  • Members
  • Joined: 09 Feb 2014
  • Uruguay

#535

Posted 10 May 2014 - 12:07 AM

The problem here is that there is a lot of ultra-conservative people, who think that if cannabis is legalized, everyone will smoke and all this country would become a big weed cloud. The truth is, legalization is good for all smokers and non-smokers.


93Sean93
  • 93Sean93

    Peon

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 Mar 2008
  • None

#536

Posted 10 May 2014 - 01:16 AM Edited by 93Sean93, 10 May 2014 - 01:17 AM.

I think all drugs should be legalized, period. What someone wants to put into their own body shouldn't be the government's business. It would solve a lot of problems that drug prohibition created. I'm all for it .  .

  • IveGotNoValues likes this

Triple Vacuum Seal
  • Triple Vacuum Seal

    If you ♥ the $, then prepare to die for it.

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 02 Dec 2011
  • United-States

#537

Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:35 PM Edited by Triple Vacuum Seal, 14 June 2014 - 07:51 PM.

To remain within the degree of acceptance of the right wingers on prohibition, I used to be gung-ho for taxing the hell out of it.  But looking at things with a more level head, I don't see why it should be additionally taxed at all.  If caffeinated coffee, energy drinks, and sodas have no additional tax, I don't see why marijuana should.  Not a single death or poisoning has ever occurred from it.  Yet hundreds of thousands of people are hospitalized with acute caffeine poisoning every year.  The standard sales tax should be plenty of revenue for the state's thieving hands.  Taxation on marijuana consumption could never be a viable source of any material deficit reduction anyway.  It would neither even put a dent in most nations' public debts nor their periodic spending deficits.

 

 

In fact, it's only illegal thanks to the major police, tobacco, alcohol, pharmaceutical, and general right-winged lobbies in America's legal system.  Too bad the government is becoming too broke to enforce it federally anyway nowadays.  The DEA leaves marijuana policing largely to the money-grubbing police departments on a local level.  At the rate we're going now, the Republican states, who are typically a few decades behind on such issues and social progression in general will get no federal (DEA) assistance on marijuana investigations unless other drugs are involved since the federal government will likely legalize before they do.  Additionally, weed prohibition will be virtually unenforceable as mass quantities of out of state shipments (which would have been federal jurisdiction) freely flow into these states and drive the price down.  Funny how the economics is often the ultimate law.

  • Melchior likes this

Ziggy455
  • Ziggy455

    Ain't nothin' over til it's over.

  • Andolini Mafia Family
  • Joined: 02 May 2007
  • United-Kingdom
  • Contribution Award [Expression]

#538

Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:59 AM

I need to know the facts of marijuana before I decide whether or not I agree in is legalization.


texasswag2014
  • texasswag2014

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2014
  • United-States

#539

Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:29 AM

i personally think it should be legal it grows in the earth its medicinal propertys are awesome i am disabled and my choices are hydrocodone 5 times a day or smoke hmmmmm which sounds better


eroch
  • eroch

    Self-Absorbed

  • Members
  • Joined: 22 Jul 2014
  • NATO

#540

Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:06 PM Edited by eroch, 13 October 2014 - 07:08 PM.

In terms of civil rights and common sense, marijuana should be legalized. But, I don't really want it legalized for the sole reason that everyone I know that smokes pot regularly is either:

A: A slacker

B: A jack%$# who tries to pass off his marijuana smoking to other people as 'natural'

 

I get that some people want to make it legal just for the social victory, and that some people just want to smoke pot, but too many people who use it lose motivation to do anything productive. Every time I see a study saying that Marijuana increases work ethic, I think of the people I know who use it, and the only work they get done while high is watching terrible movies all day and being hilarious to talk to.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users