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Master Mind's Territory Glitch

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OrionSR
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#61

Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:02 AM

QUOTE
it doesnt matter where you stand when you lose the war, it matters where you kill the 3rd enemy


If suicide, death, and defense timeout doesn't matter, then how about a save? I had thought that saving wouldn't be a losing strategy since CJ's interior location would usually be high above Jefferson, and would be too high to actually be in any zone other than SAN_AND (at 1000 meters, maybe not even that). However, perhaps it would be possible to log a 3rd kill location and then save to lose what remains of the attack. I usually like to test these ideas rather than pose the question for someone else, but I'm not sure when I'll get another shot at testing and you seemed to be making progress.

QUOTE
I can only get this to work in zones owned by GSF


I'm pretty sure I got the Mixed Glitch to work on ELS3A, a Ballas 30 (only) turf immediately NW of GAN1.

QUOTE
means I dont have to wait for two attacks to get the requirements (20+ rival density)


I'm not convinced that minimum density requirements have been established for PS2. ric has already reported that GAN2 at Grove Density 10 is enough to trigger an attack. On PC, Grove 16+ would be necessary. So if the Grove density requirement is different, then perhaps the Rival density is as well.

Jack Reacher
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#62

Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:20 AM Edited by Jack Reacher, 24 April 2011 - 03:27 AM.

Saving works, just tested it. Heres what I did, waited in GAN2 for an attack ( so that the attack would go to IWD1 as usual) instead it went to Glen Park, but thats ok. Anyway I was previously working on that LDT7 territory, I had mixed it once so it had around 30 GSF and say 18 balla density. Vagos attacked Glen Park so I lead them into LDT7 (Downtown LS) and killed 3. I then saved in Glen Park and what do you know LDT7 has increased balla density, so yes the mixed glitch does work if you simply save after killing 3 attackers.

EDIT: I usually ask questions as a way of brainstorming, I then go test them out myself but seeing as I have no cheat device available it takes time for me to do all this as I have to keep waiting for attacks.

As for PS2 requirements, im trying to keep the number of territories I take over to a bare minimum to reduce zones that can be attacked, meaning the chances of an artificial territory getting attacked should be higher. I will keep building zones around LDT7 and see what happens

ric-013
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#63

Posted 24 April 2011 - 04:13 AM Edited by ric-013, 24 April 2011 - 01:37 PM.

QUOTE (OrionSR)

I'm not convinced that minimum density requirements have been established for PS2. ric has already reported that GAN2 at Grove Density 10 is enough to trigger an attack. On PC, Grove 16+ would be necessary. So if the Grove density requirement is different, then perhaps the Rival density is as well.


i will test it out tomorrow , i got a savefile just 2 minutes before GAN2 gets attacked ... ill reduce density till i get minimum required on ps2v1 .

btw, OrionSR do you still have a memory savedump for ps2v1 ? i tryed to do one myself , but that crappy ps2 i borrowed wont let me do it ( errors when running any disk ). it wont even let me take in or out savefiles , both armax and gameshark failed to do it . aleast it let me input codes , launch game and save . but it would help me to be able to look into a dump to see value stored at some addresses .

i got this little device that let me copy savefiles from ps2 memcard to ps3 , but the format is changed to .PSV

today i tryed to clean ps2 without any luck , from what i read on various help forums maybe the lens is slowly dying or worst ... lol, good thing its not mine.

QUOTE (Jack Reacher)

Saving works, just tested it. Heres what I did, waited in GAN2 for an attack ( so that the attack would go to IWD1 as usual) instead it went to Glen Park, but thats ok. Anyway I was previously working on that LDT7 territory, I had mixed it once so it had around 30 GSF and say 18 balla density. Vagos attacked Glen Park so I lead them into LDT7 (Downtown LS) and killed 3. I then saved in Glen Park and what do you know LDT7 has increased balla density, so yes the mixed glitch does work if you simply save after killing 3 attackers.


great icon14.gif ... but i hope you wont get the " no more hoods attacked " glitch , hopefully it was fixed on v2.

here's a topic dating back 2009 where i reported having done that glitch :
http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=434602

its a topic about timing out " hoods under attack " by entering interiors and r3 mission vehicles , quite interesting info's.

OrionSR
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#64

Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:32 PM Edited by OrionSR, 24 April 2011 - 11:22 PM.

Now that I'm starting to get a better feel for the Mixed Glitch...

And still using variations of my patched beginning CG Debug save, CLEO codes, trainer, and editors...

GLN1 is adjusted to 0 Ballas and 40 Grove. GLN1 is now the only turf available for attack. An attack is triggered and the attackers pursue to LDT7 where CJ is waiting to snipe the first 3 to come into range. The game is saved using a Save Anywhere CLEO mod and I examine the save: no change in density to GLN1 or LDT7.

So I try again. This time I adjust LDT7 to have a Grove density of 1. I repeat the process following the same procedure and find that the Balla density is now 9.

I tweak my save again. GLN1 and LDT7 are back to default, and LIND1A is set to Balla 0 and Grove 20. LIND1A is now the only turf available for attack. The same procedures are used again, this time the attackers are lured into ELCO2.

There was no change in density if ELCO2 is default; Azteca 40 and 0 for everyone else. If the save was adjusted so that Ballas, Grove, or Vagos had a density of 1 then the Aztecas (presumably because they've got the highest density) got the extra density from the glitch. Adding density to the other enemy gangs didn't make any difference.

Another outstanding question is regarding the relationship between the 3rd kill of an attack, and the 3rd kill to trigger a gang war.

I reset the turf densities back to initial levels and started to take over LIND1A. I selected different positions to stand while killing the 3 Ballas required to start a gang war, saved as soon as the war was triggered, and then examined the gang war block. The coordinates extracted from the unknown XYZ at offset 0x18 matched the coordinates of the 3rd kill that triggered the war.

So, if the 3rd kill coordinates are mostly related to triggering a war, then what happens if the 3 kills don't happen within a short time span? I re-ran my experiments near Glen Park, but this time I sniped an early attacker and waited for a while before killing two more: a rival density of 9 was added to GLN1. I tried again, sniped one, and waited to kill 3 more. This time the coordinates in the save block matched those of the 4th kill, The Ballas got a density increase of 3 in LDT7. BTW, this was the first time I'd seen an increase of 3.

Killing gang member that are not part of the attack: I triggered an attack in GLN1 and quickly drove off to East Beach without bothering with the attackers. Since I wasn't having any luck finding Vagos as pedestrians I started pulling them out of cars in random traffic until I got 3 successive kills, and then saved the game. The Vagos in that East Beach turf got a density increase of 18.

The war zone indexes stored in the gang war block at offset 0x10 and 0x14 record the zone that is attacked, the zone of the 3rd kill that triggers a gang war, or the zone where the "3rd kill" is conducted during an attack.

It looks like we may have misunderstood the Hood Abuse Glitch all this time. I just ran a test of winning an attack and the Grove bonus was awarded to the zone where the 3rd successive kill was conducted.

The 3rd Kill strategy can also be used to move an ignored attack. A density of at least 1 Balla, Grove, or Vago appears to be required. In the test, GLN1 is set to get attacked and GLN1B is set to a Grove density of 1; 0 for all others. An attack is triggered in GLN1 and the Ballas are ignored; CJ moved up to CHC1A until some Vagos peds spawned. Then he moved into GLN1B and shot 3 Vagos. The attack was timed out using a CLEO code. Ballas saw an increase density of 30 in GLN1B.

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#65

Posted 24 April 2011 - 10:29 PM Edited by Jack Reacher, 25 April 2011 - 12:48 AM.

Damn this is a huge find, that idea about the 3rd kill starting a war might actually be right. Also you have to kill them in a short period of time, which may explain why some of the times I try do the mix glitch have failed.

This also explains why I always fail to mix the El Corona and Little Mexico territories, because VLA gets density added instead.
I may not have registered everything you just posted, but you said somewhere that you dont even have to kill the 3 attackers, just kill 3 gang members (Balla or Vagos)
Its good to know you can mix GSF zones with GSF density of 1, this means I dont have to repeat the hood abuse glitch all over SF to get mixed zones there, I can just do the flight glitch and win them all, and then kill 3 members using satchels and win the attack.

The final part you wrote is really important for me as im trying to keep zones captured down to a minimum, meaning I can only lure the ballas so far from the one zone that gets attacked. However now all I gotta do is trigger the attack and I can then go next to any high density turf and kill 3 normal gang members in the zone I want hood abused/glitched.

What im wondering though is using this for hood abuse glitch. Say an attack starts, I spawn the attackers and go all the way to the other side of LS. I then kill 3 random gang members in a zone to get it hood abused, however I have to win the war. If i go kill the rest of the attackers, will that zone get more GSF density?

The only thing left for me really is figuring out how the requirements for zone to get attacked on the PS2 version.

EDIT: I have been playing around with killing 3 random gang members instead of attackers. I see what you mean about lack of gangs spawning on foot, I went to CHC4A ( northeastern most territory) so i could hood abuse LS, and there were no Vagos on foot. In fact all along east beach there were none. Next time I did it without triggering their defence and the gang members spawned. However I killed 3 of them in the LS zone and then won the war normally, no change anywhere. I dont think this will be useful for the hoodabuse glitch, but for mixing turfs, that might work so il give that a shot soon.

Also about Masterminds glitch, maybe what happend what an attack started and he killed 3 VLA gang members ( he said he got 3 or 4) in a GSF zone, and then he lost the war by letting it time out or something. Now I probably wouldnt notice on my PS2 but the GSF zone that he killed those 3 VLA gang members may have gained VLA density, you just dont see the shade. I mean if you try mix a VLA territory with ballas it gains VLA density, so if its possible for them to gain density in their own turf why cant you manipulate their density elsewhere? It might be possible, but im sure we would have picked up on it by now. il check it out soon

ric-013
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#66

Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:31 AM Edited by ric-013, 25 April 2011 - 12:43 AM.

QUOTE (OrionSR)

Another outstanding question is regarding the relationship between the 3rd kill of an attack, and the 3rd kill to trigger a gang war.

I reset the turf densities back to initial levels and started to take over LIND1A. I selected different positions to stand while killing the 3 Ballas required to start a gang war, saved as soon as the war was triggered, and then examined the gang war block. The coordinates extracted from the unknown XYZ at offset 0x18 matched the coordinates of the 3rd kill that triggered the war.

So, if the 3rd kill coordinates are mostly related to triggering a war, then what happens if the 3 kills don't happen within a short time span? I re-ran my experiments near Glen Park, but this time I sniped an early attacker and waited for a while before killing two more: a rival density of 9 was added to GLN1. I tried again, sniped one, and waited to kill 3 more. This time the coordinates in the save block matched those of the 4th kill, The Ballas got a density increase of 3 in LDT7. BTW, this was the first time I'd seen an increase of 3.

Killing gang member that are not part of the attack: I triggered an attack in GLN1 and quickly drove off to East Beach without bothering with the attackers. Since I wasn't having any luck finding Vagos as pedestrians I started pulling them out of cars in random traffic until I got 3 successive kills, and then saved the game. The Vagos in that East Beach turf got a density increase of 18.

The war zone indexes stored in the gang war block at offset 0x10 and 0x14 record the zone that is attacked, the zone of the 3rd kill that triggers a gang war, or the zone where the "3rd kill" is conducted during an attack.

I looks like we may have misunderstood the Hood Abuse Glitch all this time. I just ran a test of winning an attack and the Grove bonus was awarded to the zone where the 3rd successive kill was conducted.

The 3rd Kill strategy can also be used to move an ignored attack. A density of at least 1 Balla, Grove, or Vago appears to be required. In the test, GLN1 is set to get attacked and GLN1B is set to a Grove density of 1; 0 for all others. An attack is triggered in GLN1 and the Ballas are ignored; CJ moved up to CHC1A until some Vagos peds spawned. Then he moved into GLN1B and shot 3 Vagos. The attack was timed out using a CLEO code. Ballas saw an increase density of 30 in GLN1B.


the 3rd gang member killed really is the key to all this ... iv done similar testings on ps2 , works like a charm. good work dude icon14.gif

i also re-tested ps2 address for " next attack time " you were right !!
QUOTE (OrionSR)

Possible address of Next Attack Time for PS2v1 (untested)CODE 
CODE
CODE
 
0x66c7e4 // Next Attack Time PS2v1


works fine ... i used wrong address last time.

i also used previously tested " time out attack "
CODE
CODE

0x66c7e8 // Possible PS2v1 location for Attack Timeout

to do this code for testing " hoods under attack " ... thanks alot for the adresses i cant now do quicker test.

ntsc v1 raw
hood under attack control
L2 + RIGHT = next attack time 0
L2 + LEFT = under attack time out 0
D0700942 0000FEDF
2066C7E4 00000000
D0700942 0000FE7F
2066C7E8 00000000

QUOTE (Jack Reacher)

The only thing left for me really is figuring out how the requirements for zone to get attacked on the PS2 version.

i tested this today, i most admit im quite confused about it...

GAN2 density testing , GAN2 is the only gsf owned territory and near-by rival territory's are at 40 ... my character was standing still next to ls stadium .
( in decimal )
:
gsf set at 16 = always get attacked
gsf set at 14 = get attacked ( not always )
gsf set at 12 = get attacked ( not always )
gsf set at 10 = get attacked ( not always )
gsf set at 09 = dont get attacked
gsf set at 08 = dont get attacked

here i would say 10 is the minimum , but its not always triggered , for density between 10 and 15 i sometimes have to press the next attack joker multiple times before it activate ...i even let next attack time go down by itself for 2 hours , GAN2 dosnt get attacked every 25 minutes or so ( got 2 attacks ) also , when a 10 to 15 density is attacked once ,it will keep getting attacks even if it get to lower densitys from time out .

this was a quick testing , ill do more tommorow ... ill use another territory in case GAN2 is a special one like GAN1 .

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#67

Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:51 AM Edited by Jack Reacher, 25 April 2011 - 02:04 AM.

Oh I edited my previous post to not double bump, but il just repeat what I added anyway

I have been playing around with killing 3 random gang members instead of attackers. I see what you mean about lack of gangs spawning on foot, I went to CHC4A ( northeastern most territory) so i could hood abuse LS, and there were no Vagos on foot. In fact all along east beach there were none. Next time I did it without triggering their defence and the gang members spawned. However I killed 3 of them in the LS zone and then won the war normally, no change anywhere. I dont think this will be useful for the hoodabuse glitch, but for mixing turfs, that might work so il give that a shot soon.

Also about Masterminds glitch, maybe what happend what an attack started and he killed 3 VLA gang members ( he said he got 3 or 4) in a GSF zone, and then he lost the war by letting it time out or something. Now I probably wouldnt notice on my PS2 but the GSF zone that he killed those 3 VLA gang members may have gained VLA density, you just dont see the shade. I mean if you try mix a VLA territory with ballas it gains VLA density, so if its possible for them to gain density in their own turf why cant you manipulate their density elsewhere? It might be possible, but im sure we would have picked up on it by now. il check it out soon

Oh to start gang wars you can kill 2 members in any zone, but wherever you kill the 3rd member triggers the war. For instance I wanted to start a war with all of LS, it had 1 balla density. So i went to the north eastern most Vagos hood and killed 2 Vagos inside their own territory. Then I killed the 3rd one in the LS zone, and LS was attacked. Just something to keep in mind, it probably works the same with mixed zones as well. What you could do is kill 2 guys, plant a satchel on one attacker and then detonate it in a GSF zone and it will probably be the one that gets mixed.

EDIT: Just confirmed Orions new find, it works really well because basically no matter what territory gets attacked I can mix zones that are adjacent to other territories. For instance I wanted to mix the very northeastern most territory. I took it over normally and then waited for any attack to start. I then lured 3 vagos into the northeastern zone and killed them, then waited for the attack to time out. I didnt even trigger the defence, and the zone that I killed the 3 Vagos in turned into a grey color. But thats the thing, I think I may have added ballas density to it instead, so my whole VLA gang idea doesnt work. I tried it anyway and no VLA density was added to the zone I killed them in.

OrionSR
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#68

Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:26 AM Edited by OrionSR, 25 April 2011 - 04:31 AM.

This... 3rd kill resets the attacked zone information really shakes things up. I ran tests based on many of the implications but I will need to think things through for a while, and run a few more experiments, before I feel I've got good handle on the issue.

Jack, would you get different results if when an attack is triggered, you killed 3 rivals in a remote turf, and then killed the remaining attackers by running them down with a vehicle? This should avoid the possibility of yet another 3rd kill reset of the zone under attack data. Maybe; I haven't tested the idea but based on my experience trying to start gang wars I suspect it will work.

I think I need to nail down the 3rd kill requirements a little better. There are frequent situations where I'm a bit confused about why a gang war was triggered when it was. How long can the gap be between kills? Perhaps a script that displays some sort of notice whenever the X coordinates at offset 0x18 changes will provide some useful information.

QUOTE
Note that in a zone like GAN1 where Vagos or Ballas might attack, the rival density awarded was not always added to the gang that participated in the attack. Once a density of B27/G20/V27 was reached the Vagos earned all density even if the Ballas attacked.


A partial gang war might deplete enough density of one group to allow for a 3rd (or 4th) group to be added to the zone.

ric, thanks for you minimum Grove density report. I have been unable to recreate your results on PC. It seems to be all or nothing. A Grove density of 16 is always attacked, 15 is never attacked (if it's the only turf available, etc).

I only tried the enable gang wars code to reset the Next Attack Timer. I haven't looking into other ways that the game might adjust this value. What happens if CJ is indoors when the timer reaches 0? Is the timer ever set to a value much higher (by a factor of... 2 to 5?) than the 22 to 24 minutes I was seeing.

BTW, the Next Attack Timer is a value that counts down. The Attack Timeout timer is a target value (I think). Normally the timing of a script it controlled by setting a "timer variable" to 0 (timer variables are always incrementing at a rate of 1000 per second) and then periodically comparing it's value to a target variable.

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#69

Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:48 AM

Im taking a break for now but I have a feeling your right, running down the remaining gangs, or even getting your own gang to kill them should finish the attack and thus give you a GSF +10 zone wherever you killed the other 3 guys. Il try it out in about an hour. Basically if you try any means that wont start a gang war to finish off the attack you should be able to do the hood abuse glitch, if that makes sense.

Also running over gang members doesnt add them to the least favourite gang state, basically anything that doesnt count as a legitimate kill stat I guess.

ric-013
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#70

Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:37 PM Edited by ric-013, 25 April 2011 - 02:47 PM.

QUOTE (OrionSR)

ric, thanks for you minimum Grove density report. I have been unable to recreate your results on PC. It seems to be all or nothing. A Grove density of 16 is always attacked, 15 is never attacked (if it's the only turf available, etc).


done more testings , they meet your groove 16+ requirement ...

SUN1 , IWD4 , EBE1 density testing , they are the only gsf owned territory's and near-by rival territory's are at 40 ... my character was standing still in GAN1 .
( in decimal )
:
gsf set at 16 = always get attacked
gsf set at 14 = dont get attacked
gsf set at 12 = dont get attacked
gsf set at 10 = dont get attacked

same results for all 3 territory's ... 16+ groove needed for attack to occur !!

wtf wrong with GAN2 , is there anything special with that one ? did i somehow glitch it to be attacked under 16+ requirement ? could it be cuz i activated gang-war at " in the beginning " ? im even more confused about this ... ill re-do testings on GAN2 later today. on PC does GAN2 set at 16 get re-attacked after losing density from a timed out attack ?

ill also try to test " next attack time = 0 joker " from in interior ... however given my problems with ps2 giving me errors when loading , im not sure ill be able to do so.

I WILL BUY A NEW PS2 NEXT WEEK !!!! im afraid my testing results might be flawed because of issues i have with the current borrowed one. cryani.gif suicidal.gif rampage_ani.gif

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#71

Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:49 PM Edited by OrionSR, 26 April 2011 - 01:29 AM.

I can't see anything different about GAN2. But then again, I don't see anything different about GAN1 either, and I know it's an odd one. I can't get an attack started in GAN1 no matter what I try. The No Cops On Foot flag doesn't appear to make a difference. Is your setup working well enough to determine the minimum rival density required to initiate an attack?

QUOTE
on PC does GAN2 set at 16 get re-attacked after losing density from a timed out attack ?
On PC, the territories do not lose Grove density. Grove density can be increased by winning an attack, enemy density can be increased by losing an attack, and some or all of the enemy density can be taken over by Grove by winning a war. The only time Grove will lose density is if it accumulates enough density from a war to roll the density byte over. For example, if Grove has 55 and Vagos have 210, then winning the war would give Grove a density of 265-256=9.

Next Attack Time: I wrote a script that sets the money and money on screen values equal to the value of the Next Attack Time.

Next Attack Time counts down by about 1000 for each second when CJ is within Los Santos. When he is out of town the timer is reduced by about 60 every second. The area defined for Los Santos doesn't appear to be defined by the zones. I think these coordinates might be hard coded in a manner similar to the zones that define the restricted areas of SF and LV.

The maximum reset value I've seen is just under 1620000 (27 minutes in LS). The lowest reset value is near 640000 (about 10 minutes, 40 seconds). The reset method was primarily standing in the middle of the only available zone when the timer was set to 0, but also from losing or winning attacks and wars.

The Next Attack Time is continually reset to 30,000 when CJ's elevation is above 950 (includes most but not all interiors) if the value drops below 30,000. Interior elevation exceptions include the Atrium, Airstrip safehouse, UFO Bar, and the Generator Hall of the dam. Most safehouse interiors are with Los Santos (Madd Dogg's Crib is not), no matter where the exterior door is located. Most other interiors are not within Los Santos. See Hidden Interior Map.

The Next Attack Time is reset to 30,000 when CJ starts a mission and the value is below 30,000. Otherwise, during a mission the value of Next Attack Time does not change.

Added: The Next Attack Time is on hold when CJ is drivng an aircraft (includes Vortex).

I'll continue to look for other reset methods and holding times.


I've got a new CLEO script that reads the 3rd Kill X coordinate (at 0x96abbc) and displays a message when it changes. It is an effect tool for determining exactly when the 3rd Kill Glitch was triggered, but this information hasn't been all that useful since I already have a pretty good feel for this from the gang war trigger requirements.

However, I can confirm that added density will be applied to the most recent 3rd Kill: Kill 3 in zone A, 3 more in zone B, timeout the attack, and density is added to zone B. I can get a 3rd Kill during an attack, but not during a war. As expected, 3rd Kills only work on Ballas and Vagos. <=fixed

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#72

Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:16 AM Edited by Jack Reacher, 26 April 2011 - 04:53 AM.

And Grove???!! you mean Vagos right?

Anyway your info on Next Attack Time is interesting for outside LS. Basically it is possible to start an attack outside LS, but you have to wait much longer. Unless you wait on the edge of LS so the timer goes down by 1000 per second, and when there is like 10 seconds left go outside LS. However you will still have to wait a couple of minutes I think, il do the math later.

EDIT: Hey found something new, not sure if you guys have stumbled on it yet. I have figured out a way to choose which gang attacks the next territory. When a territory is under attack, dont start its defence yet. I had the Ballas attack the territory next to El Corona. Now go kill 3 Vagos ( if you wanted Vagos to attack it instead) and go down to the attacked territory. When the gang members spawn they will be Vagos instead, not Ballas. This is extremely useful as you can get Vagos to attack territories that aren't adjacent to Vagos turf, and you can get all 3 gang members in a zone without reloading until the right gang attacks you.

Soon I will have Vagos, GSF and Ballas in the turf that is right next to El Corona, so that street that divides the two zones will have 4 gangs spawning on it.

Also im having trouble doing anything to Red County now. I did the hood abuse glitch on it once, so it has 10 GSF. However I cannot seem to repeat the hood abuse glitch on Red County or more importantly the mixed glitch. Il give it a few more shots later on. Red County being mxied is vital for me to get gang members into SF so i can start wars in the zones created by the flight glitch. What I plan to do is plant satchels on the ballas in round 1 ( the have baseball bats should be easy) and then fly to the SF Airport, you will notice RC just covers it. If I detonate the satchels I can win round 1, and round 2 spawns in the airport, from there I can lose and kill the guys in round two to start gang wars in the low density zones before the cops show up.


Finally, I have a question about density after The Green Sabre. I know the original zones in the game go back to balla density, but what about the zones you create yourself through the hood abuse glitch? Im wondering if they will stick around throught the entire game, it would be cool progressing through the story and having ballas, vagos and GSF spawning outside doherty and four dragons etc

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#73

Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:32 AM Edited by OrionSR, 26 April 2011 - 02:15 PM.

The Next Attack Time report is a response to ric calling bullcrap on my statement that implied a new attack would be launched every 25 minutes or so. Hopefully the new data can adequately explain his results of only 2 attacks in 2 hours. If we are going to write a Unified Gangwar Theory then all observations should be explained.

The strategy for choosing the attacking gang seems to be working. I'm still having problems getting the density applied to the correct gang, but at least for initial levels the choice trick seems work as expected. I'll continue to use the strategy and see if I find any bugs with it.

I was able to mix Grove (10) and Vagos (30) in Red County. The easiest place to work was north of East Beach. I eventually got Ballas (30) into Red County too, but I had to get their density up to 20 in Mulholland Intersection (or another zone that touched Red County) before I could add any density to their stats in that zone.

The satchel trick isn't working worth a damn. It's fine if the targets are nearby, but if the satchels are detonated a few blocks away then the targets remain on the map until CJ returns to the area. I don't get my 3rd Kill notice from my scripts when I detonate satchels at a distance, or when I return to the area.

Starting an R3 mission seems to be another good way to quickly end/lose a war or attack.

Newly created zones don't get altered as the game progresses. I'm pretty sure the gang zones at the beginning of the game are the same as the gang zones at the end of the game, with a different distribution of Ballas, Grove, and Vagos. The Azteca zones get shuffled a bit in response to King in Exile and Los Desperados, but it looks like the Balla density is unaltered. Check out the coding I posted a few days ago. All changes are either listed there or are a result of gang wars and attacks (and editors, cheat codes, or other mods).

Out of curiosity, have you tried using the interior trick that works so well to complete Vigilante levels on PS2v1 against the gang members spawned by wars or attacks? It's been a long time since I felt like cheating on Vigilante, but as I remember it, enter an interior, wait a second or two and exit again - repeat. The radar and map can sometimes be used to detect when the targets are warp around or falling through the map. I don't see how this would be useful, but its something I can't adequately check on PC.

HA! I just hand an attack from the Aztecas, and fought a gang war against Da Nang and Rifa at the same time. Unfortunately the trick is still a bit glitchy and it is crashing the game during the wars. Currently the trick requires writing the desired gang ID into memory, but at least I know what to look for when testing for the Master Mind glitch.

Block 23: Gang Wars
0x24 dword (unknown) <= Gang used in attack, or one of the gangs in a war.
0x28 dword (unknown) <= One of the gangs in a war (different ped model?)
0x2C dword (unknown) <= Still unknown

CODE
0A8C: write_memory 0x96ab84 size 4 value 4 virtual_protect 0 // Set Attack/War Gang
0A8C: write_memory 0x96ab50 size 4 value 5 virtual_protect 0 // Set War Gang 2
0A8C: write_memory 0x96ab58 size 4 value 6 virtual_protect 0 // Still Unknown


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#74

Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:36 PM

QUOTE (OrionSR)

I can't see anything different about GAN2. But then again, I don't see anything different about GAN1 either, and I know it's an odd one. I can't get an attack started in GAN1 no matter what I try. The No Cops On Foot flag doesn't appear to make a difference. Is your setup working well enough to determine the minimum rival density required to initiate an attack?


sure i can test GAN1 , as long i stay away from interiors and missions im ok .... however , im afraid we cant be sure of thoses results . since i have to start a new game everytime i do something and the game keep giving me error messages while loading , i get the feeling like its not right . maybe it does just like the " jet-pack trick " does ... maybe its skipping some commands during error messages.

ill get my new ps2 on friday and redo all testings.

QUOTE (OrionSR)

The Next Attack Time report is a response to ric calling bullcrap on my statement that implied a new attack would be launched every 25 minutes or so.

me calling bullcrap on your statements ? never !
i was only pointing out that it most have some type of disable or pause fonction during some events and expressing my own theory's on the subject .

just for the records :
OrionSR you know 1000 times more about GTA SA then i do ( if not more ) , i would never dare challenge that knowledge in any way ... im just a average joe who knows very little and i obviously lack the background to do any better .

also , remember that english is a 2nd language for me ... just in case there was any type of miss understanding.

looking back at the previous pages , i realise that i done everything wrong ! for my bad attitude saying it could be fake , for adding testings / glitches info's i faintly remember from 2 years ago , for adding wild theory's info's that were not tested facts and for adding testing results that were not worthy since i got them using a damaged ps2 ...

chaos & confusion , thats all i did , im really sorry ! it wasnt meant that way.

ill wait till friday to redo my testings and post results .... then ill step back and let you guys work.

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#75

Posted 26 April 2011 - 10:52 PM Edited by OrionSR, 09 April 2012 - 10:51 AM.

ric, it appears that my comment about calling "bullcrap" was misunderstood. I did not mean to imply that you were being rude. In an investigation of this sort it is very useful to have someone challenge statements that don't match observations. I also had a feeling that an attack every 25 minutes was an incomplete explanation of the Next Attack Timer, but I had other priorities at the time. You ran a 2 hour experiment on a system that is difficult to work with and provided valuable data that I could use for further tests. Your contributions to the gang war investigation have been very valuable. Please don't stop challenging inaccurate statements, repeating tests, suggesting new theories, warning about possible glitches, and all the other things you do that have made this such an interesting and productive thread. I particularly appreciate it when you post working AR-Max codes. My cheat coding skills are extremely rusty so I don't feel at all confident about trying to post an untested code.

BTW, if you've got the data to back it up, feel free to actually call bull***. Among friends, I wouldn't consider this the least bit rude.

Update: Gang Strength


Block 23: Gang Wars
0x24 dword (unknown) <= Gang used in attack, or one of the gangs in a war.
0x28 dword (unknown) <= One of the gangs in a war (different ped model?)
0x2C dword (unknown) <= Gang Strength

CODE
0A8C: write_memory 0x96ab84 size 4 value 4 virtual_protect 0 // Attack/War Gang
0A8C: write_memory 0x96ab50 size 4 value 5 virtual_protect 0 // War Gang 2
0A8C: write_memory 0x96ab58 size 4 value 3 virtual_protect 0 // Gang Strength


Gang strength of 0, rival density of 1 to 14, armed with bats, 9mm pistols, Micro-SMG, and SMG
Gang strength of 1, rival density of 15 to 29, armed with 9mm pistols, Micro-SMGs, SMG, and AK-47
Gang strength of 2, rival density of 30 and above, armed with Micro-SMGs, SMGs, and AK-47s
Gang strength of 3, not seen without modification, armed with SMGs, AK-47s, and Desert Eagles
Gang strength of 4 crashes loading 3rd wave
Gang strength of 5 crashes loading 2nd wave
Gang strength of 6 crashes loading 1st wave

To identify these memory locations for PC I seeded unique search strings into the save block and then searched a memory dump that had loaded that save. I'm not sure how to identify the PS2 memory locations without creating a new memory dump using pcsx2, and that program isn't running for me anymore. Never mind, the new version is a lot easier to configure.

These look like the correct addresses for PS2 (untested).

0x66C7B4 // Attack/War Gang
0x66C7DC // War Gang 2
0x66C7D4 // Gang Strength

^Corrected: must remember to use 7zip to uncompress the savestate and then trim 0xE4 bytes from the start of the file in order to sync file offsets with memory offsets.

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#76

Posted 27 April 2011 - 04:38 AM

So it looks like we might make some progress with masterminds glitch after all. I have a feeling he never even found it and we are discovering it ourselves but eh, easier to call it mastermind glitch.

I recall you saying a while ago one of the only ways to lower GSF density is by getting the density really high and then making it overflow and restart ( something about going over 256 density). Anyway as it possible to do this with VLA gang in El Corona? By doing the mixed glitch in their turf you dont add ballas or vagos but simply increase VLA gang density. What if you did it loads of times so that you reset it, maybe then you can add ballas or Vagos?

I still haven't gotten around to trying to do the hood abuse glitch by running over the attackers, I will try get it done by tonight.

Do you think there is any chance you can repeat the test you did on PC to get Aztecas to attack a territory on PS2, or is more testing required?

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#77

Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:31 AM

I'm still doubtful about getting the Mastermind glitch to work, but based on what we've discovered recently, an unusual 3rd kill glitch would need to be activated between the notice of a gang war attack and starting a defense, or between triggering a war and the first enemy spawn, so I've been running a few tests of the attack window. I've got another detection script running that will report whenever the attack gang is greater than 2. No luck so far, or expected.

Yes, any gang density can be rolled over. To zero the Aztecas out of El Corona you wound need to add the density from 7 timeout attacks to their current 40, and then forfeit a defense after killing 4. However, it might not be necessary to completely zero them out. I've seen some evidence that added density doesn't always go to the most dense gang if density is low enough -- perhaps around 25 or so.

Running over the attackers has been a reliable method to win an attack without risking an accidental 3rd kill switching my zones.

Now that I know not to set Gang Strength above 3 I'm not having any more problems with crashing when I switch out different attack or war gangs. I have no trouble triggering an attack from the Aztecas on PC by using memory writes. I think I found the correct addresses to get Azteca attacks on PS2, but the process currently requires cheat disk codes.

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#78

Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:41 AM

Alright thanks for the info. I have the same problems with satchel glitch as well, as soon as you see the blips alternate from up and down you know it is going to be dodgy in getting the glitch to work.

However now that I now I can kill any 3 gang members to get both glitches working, I simply need to make a chain of mixed territories to the zone I want mixed.
Just realised most of the SF territories I want mixed have 3rd party gangs in them ( non GSF, Balla and Vagos) so its going to be a real pain making mixed territories for 4 star gang wars there, i would have to mix each one 7 times to flush them out!

Im thinking of updating my first post soon to include most of our new updates, honestly I never expected this thread to go so far and find some many new things. It will be a pain for other users in the future to get a grip on all the new finds so il add it all to the first page once we can confirm most of it

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#79

Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:25 AM Edited by OrionSR, 27 April 2011 - 11:14 AM.

Holy Crap!

Qapla.


The Mastermind Glitch isn't bogus after all.


That High Attack Gang detection script worked like a charm. I just got an Azteca Attack without using memory writes. The trick to an Azteca attack is to lure 3 Ballas (or Vagos, probably, but they are far away) into an Azteca turf and kill them while an attack notice is in progress. When you start the defense the Aztecas will be attacking.

BTW, there isn't a change-gang-window between triggering a war and the first spawn because the 3rd Kill trigger is disabled once the gang war is active.

I'm still trying to work out where the density goes. So far, nowhere. Never mind. Density adjustments are as expect if Balla, Grove, or Vago density is at least 1.

Added: It doesn't look like this trick will be useful for adding non-rival enemy gangs into additional territories. In order for the trick to work, the glitched zone must have some density for the target gang, so no new zones. I tried switching the zone with another 3rd Kill after triggering a defense but then the new gang gets the density even if the Aztecas are attacking.

QUOTE (ric-013 @ Apr 22 2011, 12:12)
also,
CODE

0x24    dword           (unknown)
0x28    dword           (unknown)
0x2C    dword           (unknown)

i always hoped thoses would be i.d's for gangs involved ( active ) in gang-war

You called it. Well, the first two anyway. Nicely done.

QUOTE (Jack Reacher @ Apr 26 2011, 22:41)
Im thinking of updating my first post soon to include most of our new updates

Updating the title post is a good idea, but I would argue in favor of a completely new topic. Someone searching for gang war information might have a lot of trouble getting a hit on this topic title. We should include everything we know in a comprehensive Theory. The largest gap in knowledge seems to be determining which qualified zones will get attacked.

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#80

Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:43 PM Edited by ric-013, 28 April 2011 - 12:53 AM.

QUOTE (OrionSR)

ric, it appears that my comment about calling "bullcrap" was misunderstood.

my bad !
it was a not a good week for me ... i had enuff of having problems with everything i tried to do ( ps2 , cheat-device , testings ,etc.)

QUOTE (OrionSR)

These look like the correct addresses for PS2 (untested).

0x66C7B4 // Attack/War Gang
0x66C7DC // War Gang 2
0x66C7D4 // Gang Strength

^Corrected: must remember to use 7zip to uncompress the savestate and then trim 0xE4 bytes from the start of the file in order to sync file offsets with memory offsets.

wow this is so cool icon14.gif
i cant wait to test it out .... how the gang id value looks like ? is it hex for gang txt name ?

QUOTE (OrionSR)

You called it. Well, the first two anyway. Nicely done.

blush.gif ... pure luck ! i had nothing to back it up .

QUOTE

The Mastermind Glitch isn't bogus after all.

That High Attack Gang detection script worked like a charm. I just got an Azteca Attack without using memory writes. The trick to an Azteca attack is to lure 3 Ballas (or Vagos, probably, but they are far away) into an Azteca turf and kill them while an attack notice is in progress. When you start the defense the Aztecas will be attacking.


OMG !!! mercie_blink.gif

QUOTE (OrionSR)

QUOTE (Jack Reacher)

Im thinking of updating my first post soon to include most of our new updates

Updating the title post is a good idea, but I would argue in favor of a completely new topic. Someone searching for gang war information might have a lot of trouble getting a hit on this topic title. We should include everything we know in a comprehensive Theory. The largest gap in knowledge seems to be determining which qualified zones will get attacked.


i would keep this topic and update the 1st post ! but id ask administrator to change the topic title ... just a suggestion.


ill be here on friday for further testings .

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#81

Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:11 AM

Sorry, that should be:

0x66C7B4 // Attack/War Gang ID
0x66C7DC // War Gang ID 2
0x66C7D4 // Gang Strength


The gang ID is the same as other applications; 0 for Ballas, 1 for Grove, etc. That's one reason these bytes were difficult to identify in the save, and especially in memory. I'm really curious to see if gangs 8 and 9 can be used if they are edited in with cheat codes, or... um, I'm not sure how it's done on PC. How does the trick work on PS2?

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#82

Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:34 AM


how i added gang 8 & 9 ?

- mod gang 8 & 9 ped group models (cuz they are aztecas by default )
- give them density

thats all , other mods were gang 8 & 9 cars , weapons & territory map color

QUOTE (OrionSR)


I have no trouble triggering an attack from the Aztecas on PC by using memory writes. I think I found the correct addresses to get Azteca attacks on PS2, but the process currently requires cheat disk codes.


id like to know more about this ... given all recent finds you did , ill probably do a major update of my own topic with new cheat-device codes .




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#83

Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:03 AM

Well, that wasn't so difficult. I adjusted gangs 9 and 10 (ID 8 & 9) in pedgrp.dat and sex workers (war gang 1) and girlfriends (war gang 2) showed up for the war. Unfortunately, only the first model is ever (?) selected. I noticed the same thing with the other non-rival, enemy gangs as well. Also, the gang car only shows up for the war with Ballas and Vagos. However, I had quite a variety of models for the turf attack.

I'm not sure what to add about changing the attack or war gangs. Basically, I'm waiting until the attack notice is displayed, or gang war is triggered, and then pressing the button that causes the script to write the data into memory.

I'm still considering methods to detect when a gang war is triggered or attack notice is given in order to automatically make the adjustments - nothing practical comes to mind. Implementing the adjustment with a joker shouldn't be difficult.


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#84

Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:19 AM Edited by ric-013, 28 April 2011 - 09:07 AM.

QUOTE (OrionSR)

Also, the gang car only shows up for the war with Ballas and Vagos.


did you mod the car models for gang 8 & 9 ? if i remember right theres no car model set for them in default setting . however the other rival gangs should have a selected model .

QUOTE

I'm still considering methods to detect when a gang war is triggered or attack notice is given in order to automatically make the adjustments - nothing practical comes to mind. Implementing the adjustment with a joker shouldn't be difficult.

ill probably go with a conditional joker, they are triggered by a lesser , higher or equal value ... in this case , for attacks id go with something like using " next attack time " address = 0 conditional joker .

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#85

Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:50 AM Edited by Jack Reacher, 28 April 2011 - 02:55 AM.

Wow great work on getting the glitch to work Orion! So basically I gotta lure ballas or Vagos into El Corona or Little Mexico and kill them, then go to the attacked zone to trigger the defence and lose.

Once you lose, say get GAN2 mixed just with GSF and Aztecas, will they ever attack it out of the blue? Can you start a gang war with them once they get density in that zone? il play around with it soon, fist I gotta study for my stats test then il get right on it. I will probably make a new topic and video walkthroughs of all the new finds soon, my old video tutorial needs a huge update.

EDIT: This probably works with other gangs as well right? I mean in SF I could mix zones next to the Rifa, Da Nang and Mountain Boys gangs. Then When an attack starts I could lure those mixed gang members into those zones and kill them, then go back to LS and trigger the defence. I dont think I will have enough time to do that, so heres my plan.

I wait in LS until there is like 5 seconds left until a territory is attacked. I then get onto the Shamal in LS airport which stops the countdown and resets it to 30 seconds left. Then I go to SF and wait there, I will probably have to wait longer but I should be able to lure them into the other gangs zone in that time ( I will not bother with this on the starter save in 4 star zones, too hard)

What im worried about is, can you even trigger an attack while outside LS?

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#86

Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:35 AM Edited by OrionSR, 28 April 2011 - 01:29 PM.

The aircraft will freeze but do not reset the Next Attack Timer. If you want to have an attack begin while you are in San Fierro then I would suggest:

Wait in a safehouse for 27 minutes and save. Next Attack Timer should be at 30,000.
Exit the safehouse, get in an R3 vehicle, and start the mission. Timer is back at 30,000.
Got to airport and cancel the R3 mission. Wait 16 seconds and enter the Shamal. Timer is frozen at about 4000.
Exit the vehicle and wait for about 1 minute for the next attack.

I don't think it will be possible to get Aztecas, or any of the other non-rival gangs, into any zone they are not already in. This is because the 3rd Kill Glitch switches the gang that is attacking, which determines the gang that gets the density increase, and also the zone that gets the density increase. The attacking gang will be the gang with the highest density in the zone where the 3rd kill occurs.

My earlier explanation wasn't entirely correct. You don't need to kill Ballas or Vagos in an Azteca turf during an attack notice to switch the attacking gang to Aztecas. CJ needs to be in the Azteca zone when he makes the 3rd kill, the Ballas or Vagos do not. At least, I'm pretty sure that's how it works based on my experience starting gang wars - and it's the same trigger, so it should work exactly the same.

You don't need to lose the attack. You could let it timeout. You won't see the Aztecas making the attack, but Aztecas get the density increase as long as the attack isn't cancelled or won. In the case of a timeout, +30. Remember that you'll need to win once in order to get a Grove density of 10 before Azteca density can be increased.

I'm having no trouble getting attacks to trigger when CJ is out of LS by setting the attack timer to a low value using scripts. I strongly suspect the attacks will also trigger under normal circumstances if you wait long enough.

I did not alter the gang cars in my tests of gang IDs 8 and 9. This is a fairly easy process on PC; just edit the appropriate line in the cargrp.dat file. Gangs 8 and 9 both have the Sentinel gang car, btw. However, someone recently posted the PC addresses for gang peds and gang cars in the GTA-SA memory address topic so I've been able to make the adjustments to the gang peds and cars using memory writes. I suspect this is the same process that ric used for his PS2 mods. Since I prefer to avoid changing my data files I'll stick to the memory writes if I want to alter the unused gangs.

Skin ID reference

FYI: I've always wondered why the car groups seem to be limited to only 23 cars. After examining the memory block for the car groups I understand why; there are only 23 slot available for each car group. This explains why the Phoenix and Euros are never available in random traffic despite being listed in some car groups.

Which Zones Will Be Attacked?

Working with an old End of the Line save I've got handy in which Grove has control of all normal turfs, I set the following zones to Grove 20 and Balla or Vago 20. These zones are listed in the order they appear in the info.zon file.

QUARY
PALO
NROCK
MONT
DILLI
TOPFA
BLUEB1
EBAY

I ran my test near Catalina's place in Fern Ridge so these zones are distributed in a way that surrounds CJ and it is pretty easy to tell which zone is attacked from the icon's position on the radar. I alternated Ballas and Vagos to make it even easier to distinguish between the zones.

I set up my test script so when I press a button the Attack Timeout and then Next Attack Timer are cleared. Each time I press the button the current attack times out and another starts. As the test progresses the attacks start against the Quarry or Easter Bay (which appears random). Eventually the gang density of one or the other, Quarry for example, will roll over and attacks will be against Palomino Creek and Easter Bay until Easter Bay rolls over and is replaced by Blueberry. The pattern of either the first or last available zone being attacked continues until no more zones are available. Every once in a while one of the other zones is attacked, but this is fairly rare. Adjusting the density of the zones did not appear to have any influence.

Hypothesis: The next zone to be attacked will probably be either the first or last zone available for attack.

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#87

Posted 28 April 2011 - 05:09 PM Edited by ric-013, 28 April 2011 - 08:39 PM.

QUOTE
did not alter the gang cars in my tests of gang IDs 8 and 9. This is a fairly easy process on PC; just edit the appropriate line in the cargrp.dat file. Gangs 8 and 9 both have the Sentinel gang car, btw. However, someone recently posted the PC addresses for gang peds and gang cars in the GTA-SA memory address topic so I've been able to make the adjustments to the gang peds and cars using memory writes. I suspect this is the same process that ric used for his PS2 mods. Since I prefer to avoid changing my data files I'll stick to the memory writes if I want to alter the unused gangs.


yup , i use memory write ... in fact ps2 cheat-device can only do memory writes , so i cannot mod files such as cargrp.dat , only alter where its loaded.

about next time attack :
- what happens to the timer when a gang-war is triggered ? it freeze or get reset ?

about mixed glitch :
- does gang members spawned by " gangs everywhere " cheat or thoses recruited using " recruit anyone " cheat would work in the 3rd kill pattern ?


note : new ps2 in tomorrow.


EDIT :
QUOTE (OrionSR)

I don't think it will be possible to get Aztecas, or any of the other non-rival gangs, into any zone they are not already in. This is because the 3rd Kill Glitch switches the gang that is attacking, which determines the gang that gets the density increase, and also the zone that gets the density increase. The attacking gang will be the gang with the highest density in the zone where the 3rd kill occurs.

the original flight glitch might provide the solution ... iv looked into the savedump you sent me . `
i know you didnt do the flight glitch on it , but you did the " liberty city mission " in it you fly a plane
far away at sea to reach the liberty city marker ... that is far enuff to trigger the original glitch ( old known fact )
the glitch do add rival gang s ( rifa , da nang , mafia , triad ,aztecas , unused 8 ,unused 9 ) densitys at 01 around SA

default setting for SUNMA, SUNNN , BATTP :
CODE

Ballas Grove Vagos Rifa Da Nang Mafia Triad Aztecas unused unused Dealers Red Blue  Green Alpha peds&cars ped?
SUNMA 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 0F
SUNNN 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 0F
BATTP 00 00 00 19 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 0F

from your Eol ps2v1 memory dump
ignore 1st byte ( last byte in SAN_AND )
CODE

# 007ba800 0100000f ..... vagos get 01 density
# 007ba804 00000001 ..... rifa get 01 density
# 007ba808 00000000
# 007ba80c 3700c8ff
# 007ba810 00000f04
# 007ba814 01000000 ..... mafia get 01 density
# 007ba818 00000000
# 007ba81c 00000000
# 007ba820 000f0500
# 007ba824 00190000 ..... default rifa density
# 007ba828 01010000 ..... aztecas and unused gang 8 get 01 density
# 007ba82c 00000000
# 007ba830 0f020000

SUNMA have vagos and rifa mixed at 01 density
SUNNN have mafia at 01 density
BATTP have 19 rifa (default ) , aztecas at 01 and unused gang 8 at 01

so the flight glitch offer more possibility's for rival gangs to have density increased all around SA ...but mapping around what gangs are into what territory would be a long process if not impossible ( if the effect of flight glitch is giving density randomly )

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#88

Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:26 PM Edited by OrionSR, 28 April 2011 - 10:28 PM.

The Next Attack Timer is frozen while an attack is in progress. This is initially a small negative number, but it might get reset to 30000 if CJ enters an interior. Either way, it gets reset to the random range when the attack is over.

Only killing Ballas and Vagos while on foot will trigger a 3rd Kill. Non-Rival gangsters spawned by Gangs Everywhere or recruited using Recruit Anyone do not trigger a 3rd Kill. Killing Recruited or Anywhere Ballas and Vagos works normally.

The Flight Glitch might indeed offer a solution. However, it looks problematic:

The Flight Glitch is not random; that's why the same few turfs tend to get glitched during the St Marks Bistro mission. The glitch is caused by the same routine that ungrays the map as CJ moves around to new areas of San Andreas. There are 100 sectors about 600 meters square that fog over the map. As CJ moves around the map the game checks to see if his current sector is grayed out, and if not (byte = 0), it clears the fog (byte = 1). When CJ is off the map the math that determines which sector flag is checked might point to a byte somewhere in the zone population data instead of the 100 byte block used for the fog array.

If entering a certain off-map sector will add one Balla to a particular zone, then traveling directly south for 600 meters will add 1 Grove, and then 1 Vagos 600 meters later. Keep flying south and eventually all gangs and the dealer get a density of 1. Then nothing happens over the color and ped bytes until CJ finally ends up over a sector that adds a Balla to the next zone (in the order of info.zon) and the process starts again. Mapping the off-map sectors on PC is very difficult. I have no idea how to accomplish this on PS2.

I'm pretty sure the only zones that can be Flight Glitched on PS2v1 are the first 173 zones. SUNMA through LDT3.

So, back to El Corona and the Willowfield Tattoo shop (because entering and exiting tends to spawn gangs in the Willowfield zone) for some more tests. Willowfield has 20 Balla and 20 Grove and is under attack when the save is loaded. El Corona has a density of 1 for all gangs. I get a 3rd Kill in El Corona, start the defense, and forfeit by saving. Ballas get the added density.

2nd try. Ballas have 0, everyone else has 1. Vagos get the density.
3rd test. 0 Ballas and 0 Vagos, but maintain the required Grove 1, and Rifa get the density.

The plan to get added non-rival density might work. I suspect it will be difficult to get 1 Grove and 0 Ballas or Vagos, so first start a war so Grove gets all density. Then do the flight glitch again and there is a better chance of getting a non-rival density without a rival density to mess things up.

BTW, I'm not sure if that PS2 EoL save is mine or not. It could be something I downloaded from GameFAQs.

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#89

Posted 29 April 2011 - 06:55 AM

Im getting kinda confused with adding other gangs density. I managed to get GAN2 attacks, i killed 3 ballas in Little Mexico and drove over to GAN2. The Aztecas spawned when I triggered the attack, so I lost the attack/let it time out. No one got any density though, I drove around GAN2 and didnt find any Aztecas. I should add the only gang in Little Mexico are the Aztecas, should I put GSF in there in order to have Aztecas in GAN2?

Anyway I was also thinking of the flight glitch, instead of me going over to SF and killing 3 ballas in those zones, can I simply kill 3 ballas/vagos in a Rifa/Da Nang zone of density 1 that is in LS made from the flight glitch, or will they require more density?

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

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#90

Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:34 AM Edited by OrionSR, 29 April 2011 - 08:36 AM.

I agree, the density adjustments are very confusing. Focus on CJ's location during the 3rd Kill. That is the key component of this glitch. Let me try to explain again. Hypothetical, perhaps I'll run an actually experiment but I think I've got a handle on it now.

//---//

Your Test:

Attack is triggered in GAN2. Attack Zone is GAN2. Attackers are the neighboring Ballas.
Drive to El Corona and Kill 3 Ballas.
Attack Zone is now ELCO2. Attackers are now Aztecas because they have the highest non-GSF density in ELCO2 (Azteca 40 only).
Return to GAN2, trigger the defense, let it time out.
The attackers (Aztecas), get an increase of 0 in the Attack Zone (ELCO2) because the Ballas, Grove, and Vagos have no density in ELCO2.

Try again:

Attack is triggered in GAN2. Attack Zone is GAN2. Attackers are the neighboring Ballas.
Drive to El Corona and Kill 3 Ballas. Attack Zone is now ELCO2. Attackers are now Aztecas because they have the highest non-GSF density in ELCO2 (Azteca 40 only).
Return to GAN2, trigger the defense, and win.
Grove will get an increase of 10 in the Attack Zone (ELCO2).

Try Your Test Again:

Attack is triggered in GAN2. Attack Zone is GAN2. Attackers are the neighboring Ballas.
Drive to El Corona and Kill 3 Ballas. Attack Zone is now ELCO2. Attackers are now Aztecas (Grove 10, Azteca 40).
Return to GAN2, trigger the defense, let it time out.
The attackers (Aztecas), get an increase of 18 in the Attack Zone (ELCO2).

//---//

If you want to add Azteca density to GAN2 then use the flight glitch. It might work since GAN2 is zone #150, within the range of the 173 zones that can be glitched (I think). Hope that you don't accidentally add any density for the Ballas, Vagos, Rifa, Da Nang, Mafia, or Triad while you are flying around glitching apparently random gangs into apparently random zones. It's okay if a stray gang 8 and/or gang 9 are glitched into GAN2 since the lowest numbered gang will get the density from the glitch.

I actually ran these tests to make sure they'd work:

GAN2 has a density of Grove 20 - only.
An attack is triggered in GAN2. Attackers are Vagos.
Drive to GAN2 and Kill 3 Ballas in GAN2.
Timeout the attack.
Ballas get a density increase of 30 in GAN2.

GAN2 has a density of Grove 20 and Azteca 1.
An attack is triggered in GAN2. Attackers are Vagos.
Timeout the attack.
Vagos get a density increase of 30 in GAN2.

GAN2 has a density of Grove 20 and Azteca 1.
An attack is triggered in GAN2. Attackers are Ballas.
Drive to GAN2 and Kill 3 Ballas in GAN2.
Timeout the attack.
Azteca get a density increase of 30 in GAN2.

GAN2 has a density of Grove 20 - only.
GAN1 has a density of Grove 10, Mafia 1, and Azteca 1.
An attack is triggered in GAN2. Attackers are Ballas.
Drive to GAN1 and Kill 3 Ballas in GAN1.
Timeout the attack.
Mafia get a density increase of 30 in GAN1.




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