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Should the npc's be improved.

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eastcoastboy17
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#1

Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:55 AM

Do you believe gta 5 should feature more accurately behaved npcs? I do and i will explain why. In gta 4 Rockstar did a good job at recreating nyc but one of the things new york is known for is over populated areas it made no sense that vibrant areas such as star junction and hove beach were almost completely empty, it makes the city not seem as nearly as real at all. If anyone ever played assasins creed you will know how the npc behave almost life like in the game. I wanna see peds acting more real like parking their cars, getting into arguments on the streets, people atempting to mug you and having hotspots jammed with cars and people.
For me nothing beats having vice beach filled with joggers, tons of exotic cars, tourist and womens in bikini cool.gif . But i want to hear you all opinions, do you believe gta 4 pretty much had the perfect AI system or do you believe it was seriously lacking that and it should be covered in the next gta?

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#2

Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:58 AM

QUOTE
Rockstar did a good job at recreating nyc but one of the things new york is known for is over populated areas it made no sense that vibrant areas such as star junction and hove beach were almost completely empty


Consoles are too weak to process many people at once, on PC however you can turn up the settings and there are almost a lifelike amount of people.

Better NPC AI and random acting would be ideal though.

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#3

Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:16 AM

QUOTE (finn4life @ Jan 9 2011, 21:58)
QUOTE
Rockstar did a good job at recreating nyc but one of the things new york is known for is over populated areas it made no sense that vibrant areas such as star junction and hove beach were almost completely empty


Consoles are too weak to process many people at once, on PC however you can turn up the settings and there are almost a lifelike amount of people.

Better NPC AI and random acting would be ideal though.

Let's not start a system war.

I was disappointed with the lack of people in the city as well, but I think the activities, and reactions of the pedestrians could be a bit more life-like.

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#4

Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:17 AM

It'd be cool if there were mugger type peds and if you let them off your guard, they push you down and put their foot on you to keep you down. If you don't rapidly mash a button they get all your money and weapons and run/drive away with them. But if you successfully mash a button you throw them to the ground and then you can shoot them.

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#5

Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:22 AM Edited by The_Mario_Man, 10 January 2011 - 02:25 AM.

I would be much more happy if the pedestrian reactions to what goes on were improved.

I know this is an entirely different game, but just look at how the civilians react to everything that is happening in this video.
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

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#6

Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:28 AM

QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 10 2011, 02:22)

(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

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#7

Posted 10 January 2011 - 11:34 AM Edited by Lightning Strike, 10 January 2011 - 11:38 AM.

QUOTE (finn4life @ Jan 10 2011, 01:58)
QUOTE
Rockstar did a good job at recreating nyc but one of the things new york is known for is over populated areas it made no sense that vibrant areas such as star junction and hove beach were almost completely empty


Consoles are too weak to process many people at once, on PC however you can turn up the settings and there are almost a lifelike amount of people.

Better NPC AI and random acting would be ideal though.

Thats total bull crap if The ps2 game Spartan total warrior can handle 100's of npcs fighting at one time fluidly then 360 and PS3 will easily cope with it, and yes the characters could be far more detailed. I mean even though it doesn't seem like much of a comparison it still supports itself pretty well. I mean look at RDR's UN you can Have hundreds of them at once without any lag so saying that consoles hold it back its completely stupid. Sure PC can handle more but RDRs game world is about 3 times the size of SA and stupidly more detailed then IV and when LA Noire is realeased I'm pretty sure what it can handle will bury whatever IV can muster.

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#8

Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:00 PM

I wanna see the NPCs/peds be improved in every way possible in the next GTA. But most importantly, I want see see more crimes being comitted in streets by npcs/peds that do not always invlove the player and the police. In the rough neighbourhoods of the chosen city, I wanna see random acts of crime and violence in this fashion. I wanna see shoot-outs and gunfights between gang members and criminals, I wanna see criminals doing hold-ups in stores and security vans, I wanna see people getting robbed, mugged, carjacked, fighting each other, brawling, arguing etc. This was my main complaint about GTA IV, we hardly saw any of these things, for most part you had to start the chaos yourself.

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#9

Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Jan 10 2011, 22:34)
QUOTE (finn4life @ Jan 10 2011, 01:58)
QUOTE
Rockstar did a good job at recreating nyc but one of the things new york is known for is over populated areas it made no sense that vibrant areas such as star junction and hove beach were almost completely empty


Consoles are too weak to process many people at once, on PC however you can turn up the settings and there are almost a lifelike amount of people.

Better NPC AI and random acting would be ideal though.

Thats total bull crap if The ps2 game Spartan total warrior can handle 100's of npcs fighting at one time fluidly then 360 and PS3 will easily cope with it, and yes the characters could be far more detailed. I mean even though it doesn't seem like much of a comparison it still supports itself pretty well. I mean look at RDR's UN you can Have hundreds of them at once without any lag so saying that consoles hold it back its completely stupid. Sure PC can handle more but RDRs game world is about 3 times the size of SA and stupidly more detailed then IV and when LA Noire is realeased I'm pretty sure what it can handle will bury whatever IV can muster.

Heavenly Sword for the Playstation 3 can also handle hundereds of characters/NPC's/enemies at once which means that the consoles are quite capable of handling a large amount of NPC characters at once.

I do believe that the next Grand Theft Auto game should have improved NPC density. Vehicle traffic was pretty realistic in the main streets of Algonquin but the lack of pedestrians wandering around on the street was pathetic, though there are a few areas where quite a number of pedestrians spawn at once. As for AI behaviour, that could and should be improved also, such as to have them do more instead of just wandering around the streets doing nothing. I mean, Rockstar kind of had pedestrians doing menial tasks but it would be cool to see them get out of their cars, walk into shopping centres, restaurants, etc; do what they do then get back in their car and drive back off.

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#10

Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:05 PM

QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 10 2011, 02:22)
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

I haven't smile.gif I've just never been into first person shooters. Now i'm wondering, what exactly was the point of that mission? to kill everyone at the airport just for the sake of it?

I did like what I saw, though. People helping other injured people, and even some people pushing others out of the way while scrambling for safety. But the overall panic and fleeing was quite similar to GTA i'd say.

@op, of course there's room for improvement in the NPCs. I echo the Office General in the sense that it'd be nice to see npcs engaging in mischievous behavior around town, from petty crime to full-on shootouts. But even more, I'd like to see groups of people walking/travelling together (e.g. friends, family) instead of just individuals everywhere. Basically I'd like to see more attitude in the NPCs instead of the usual "i'm a nobody going nowhere" vibe that you get from the NPCs in previous GTAs.

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#11

Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:10 PM

I want more peds and more realistic ones for example when you have a gun pointed at one they won't run

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#12

Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:36 PM Edited by Official General, 10 January 2011 - 02:40 PM.

QUOTE (NickRad @ Jan 10 2011, 13:10)
I want more peds and more realistic ones for example when you have a gun pointed at one they won't run

@ NickRad

The first part of what you said is fine, I do believe that Libery City in GTA IV could have done with more peds in the streets.

As for the second part - are you serious ? Or have you been asleep ? Where have you been man ? In the rougher districts of Liberty City, there are certain peds that will NOT run away whenever you point a gun at them. Some of them will just stand there and act in a defiant manner, AND some of them will also actually pull out guns themselves and SHOOT right back YOU !! Go to the Firefly Projects in Broker, Hove Beach, North and East Holland, and anywhere in South Bohan or Chinatown - just go and randomly point a gun at the peds there, and before you can blink, someone will be blasting a gun right back at you.

Based on your second point, I think you need to play GTA IV and experiment properly with the game.

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#13

Posted 10 January 2011 - 03:39 PM

QUOTE
Now i'm wondering, what exactly was the point of that mission? to kill everyone at the airport just for the sake of it?


Well, in that mission you're playing an undercover American working with a group of Russian extremists. One of their tasks just happens to be shooting the hell out of that airport.



I'm alright with crime being more realistic, but it shouldn't happen so often that the game starts to feel silly. A really huge random gang-battle should be a rare (but exceptionally awesome) thing to see. Complete with SWAT joining in.

I also think that the city itself should change depending on what you/pedestrians do. IE, if you return to a recent crime scene, there should be road blocks, police cars, news vans, and small groups of pedestrians watching what's going on. Police questioning people, taking pictures of the damage, etc.

If you launch a few rockets into the road, a small construction team shows up in the area to patch up the damage.

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#14

Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:28 PM

Peds need to have some sort of personality e.g. Some hang around in gangs and threaten you but when on their own they run. Really aggressive and wimpy characters. And the whole peds committing crime would be awesome but would be better if you saw police do it as well. For example, you walk down an alleyway and see police officers beating some random guy with their night sticks and taking bribes. You should be allowed to intervene and this perhaps affects a morality meter you have. Not that anyone playing the game would have it on good morality.

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#15

Posted 10 January 2011 - 06:42 PM Edited by Roland of Gilead, 10 January 2011 - 07:46 PM.

The peds in IV are good, basically. They could still be improved, for example more variety (less twins walking around ><) etc, and more random things they say and do (cheeesy va...). They should interact more with the enviroment, for example walking in a store, buying a huge tv and putting it in their trunk biggrin.gif and possibly commenting it with something like "yeaah superbowl is going to look greeeaat". Its the details that seperate a good game from a great one.

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#16

Posted 10 January 2011 - 07:13 PM

I knew a PC fanboy would find his way to this topic.....

Anyway, yes, NPC's should be greatly improved. I want to see the actually getting out of their cars, and going inside their homes/apartments as opposed to parking their cars outside of a place, and walking away from it.

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#17

Posted 10 January 2011 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 10 2011, 02:22)
I would be much more happy if the pedestrian reactions to what goes on were improved.

I know this is an entirely different game, but just look at how the civilians react to everything that is happening in this video.
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

I would love it if GTA was as a violent and dark as this everytime you had a rampage.

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#18

Posted 11 January 2011 - 12:41 AM

QUOTE (Linki @ Jan 10 2011, 23:14)
QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 10 2011, 02:22)
I would be much more happy if the pedestrian reactions to what goes on were improved.

I know this is an entirely different game, but just look at how the civilians react to everything that is happening in this video.
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

I would love it if GTA was as a violent and dark as this everytime you had a rampage.

Yeah it would be nice to see NPC relationships e.g. another NPC pulling the other away from the shootout or getting in the way of them to block the bullets. Also some NPCs using bodies as meat shields. NPCs taking cover behind objects, etc.

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#19

Posted 11 January 2011 - 02:29 AM

QUOTE (NotoriousKiller @ Jan 11 2011, 00:41)
QUOTE (Linki @ Jan 10 2011, 23:14)
QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 10 2011, 02:22)
I would be much more happy if the pedestrian reactions to what goes on were improved.

I know this is an entirely different game, but just look at how the civilians react to everything that is happening in this video.
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

I would love it if GTA was as a violent and dark as this everytime you had a rampage.

Yeah it would be nice to see NPC relationships e.g. another NPC pulling the other away from the shootout or getting in the way of them to block the bullets. Also some NPCs using bodies as meat shields. NPCs taking cover behind objects, etc.

Yeah, instead of screaming and running away only.

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#20

Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:10 AM

Has anyone walked into a copcar and it runs them over then blood gets on the cop car and you get 1 star? or you stop at traffic lights and other cars over take you when its still red? or you stop somehwher like the toll booths and a car comes in from behind and ramps you through the barrier arm and the police start hunting you down?

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#21

Posted 11 January 2011 - 09:28 AM Edited by finn4life, 11 January 2011 - 09:44 AM.

QUOTE
I knew a PC fanboy would find his way to this topic.....


FYI i wasn't fanboying i was answering the question directly, on PC you can turn up the NPC density settings, so i was directly relating to the thread of more NPC denisty,In fact i don't even play IV on PC anymore, i play on console, so go shove your fanboyism bullsh*t somewhere else.

QUOTE
Thats total bull crap if The ps2 game Spartan total warrior can handle 100's of npcs fighting at one time fluidly then 360 and PS3 will easily cope with it, and yes the characters could be far more detailed. I mean even though it doesn't seem like much of a comparison it still supports itself pretty well. I mean look at RDR's UN you can Have hundreds of them at once without any lag so saying that consoles hold it back its completely stupid. Sure PC can handle more but RDRs game world is about 3 times the size of SA and stupidly more detailed then IV and when LA Noire is realeased I'm pretty sure what it can handle will bury whatever IV can muster


There is a difference between NPC's on RDR and GTA IV, if they were able to have more how come there wasn't?

You must remember even though RDR was much larger there weren't huge building all over the place to have loaded constantly or cars appearing all the time combined with NPC's.

On IV it was maxing out at times with ram as i have had quite a few l moments on my ps3 when there is a big cop chase and cops are spawning everywhere and my frame-rate drops, don't tell me its my PS3 because it isn't.
The next GTA if it is on this gen of console might be able to handle more NPC density as R* should be more familiar on these systems by now, and they have probably tweaked the engine a little, but i still don't think it will be a massive increase and whether they use that little bit of extra they will have on NPC's or not will be up to rockstar.

I also remember when i was playing on PC that when i turned Ped density right up i got a bit of lag, even though the computer i was using at the time was far more powerful than ps3 and Xbox.

QUOTE
Heavenly Sword for the Playstation 3 can also handle hundereds of characters/NPC's/enemies at once which means that the consoles are quite capable of handling a large amount of NPC characters at once.

They can process 100's of NPC's at once but it depends on what else has to be processed as well.

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#22

Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:40 PM

I've just bought and started playing the first Yakuza game. It's pretty cool, very story based, but I digress tounge.gif

The pedestrians and the atmosphere is really busy and real feeling, absolutely nothing at all like I've ever felt in a GTA game BUT the locations are so small that it's understandable how much more detail they could put in. Also the things the pedestrians say is really specific and limitless, but they do it in text boxes rather than voice actors, so again it's understandable that much more could be done. Besides which it is a totally different game and you still don't see pedestrians going about any business in which they enter or exit buildings.

So hmm, it would be really cool if there could be specific busy pedestrian areas that get higher pedestrian counts and more personal interactivity, but I guess it would entail a completely different system of population. GTA is also more free to roam and natural whereas the Yakuza game has each part of each street loading (unnoticably) as you move about, camera and population and all.

Having NPCs get out their car and enter a building shouldn't be that hard to include, I'd definately rather vehicles had a destination when you follow them rather than going in circles and once they get out they don't just go for a stroll next. Another problem though is that when an NPC wanders off into a building they become unavailable to us to slaughter/interact with which renders them "a bit annoying" and we'd probably get frustrated if NPCs can go into buildings that we can't, shining an unwanted spotlight on the actual hard limits to the "open world" which mostly feels awesomely open right now.

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#23

Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:15 PM

QUOTE (Lightning Strike @ Jan 10 2011, 11:34)
QUOTE (finn4life @ Jan 10 2011, 01:58)
QUOTE
Rockstar did a good job at recreating nyc but one of the things new york is known for is over populated areas it made no sense that vibrant areas such as star junction and hove beach were almost completely empty


Consoles are too weak to process many people at once, on PC however you can turn up the settings and there are almost a lifelike amount of people.

Better NPC AI and random acting would be ideal though.

Thats total bull crap if The ps2 game Spartan total warrior can handle 100's of npcs fighting at one time fluidly then 360 and PS3 will easily cope with it, and yes the characters could be far more detailed. I mean even though it doesn't seem like much of a comparison it still supports itself pretty well. I mean look at RDR's UN you can Have hundreds of them at once without any lag so saying that consoles hold it back its completely stupid. Sure PC can handle more but RDRs game world is about 3 times the size of SA and stupidly more detailed then IV and when LA Noire is realeased I'm pretty sure what it can handle will bury whatever IV can muster.

I agree, I played Spartan Total Warrior on PS2, the engine could easily handle all those people, it would be good if Algonquin was as busy as new york really is.

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#24

Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:29 PM

Prototype, which also based in New York, manages to handle a lot of NPCs and vehicles all onscreen at once. (Although that game is a bit less detailed than GTA)

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#25

Posted 18 January 2011 - 06:22 PM

I was thinking about starting a topic like this when a was playing IV yesterday. I mean, the peds seem to just be there to fill a gap, and not actually there to do their job. I mean, they seem to do f*ck-all until you shoot a gun and then they run off. I got carjacked more times in III then I ever did in IV.

Rockstar gives us the premise that LC is the most dangerous city in America, yet all the crime seems to come from one man, you! In a city that seems to be run by Mafia bosses and corrupt cops, you'd atleast expect to see more random shoot-outs on the streets, more cars speeding past you with police following, people attacking you etc, but nothing like that ever happens. You randomly saw a police guy holding someone up, then leading them away, or a car pulled over on the side of the road with the police searching the boot.

There should be an option of being able to commnicate with the peds, such as what we saw in SA, but not having to wait for them to talk to you first. Or using them as human shields during police shoot-outs?

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#26

Posted 18 January 2011 - 07:58 PM

Yup, NPCs should be improved, but currently in GTA IV, the AI is quite good already. Although, what the game needs is more smarter AIs, as I always keep seeing a pattern for most of the AIs wandering around. They would just wander and wander, and not interact with each other. Also, most of them drive/walk in a loop or predefined path of sorts, waiting for the moment when you move the camera out to vanish. What I saw in Mafia II was quite impressive, whereby the vehicles would eventually stop somewhere, park and the driver would walk out of the car. Basically, AIs should be more deterministic, with a destination to go to/intention.

Also, the peds should also be in the same shoes as us players, when they get a wanted level, not just cops which sees them committing the crime gives a chase, but also those cops which sees them.

The list of added peds features can go on, but those two are the main ones I think that should be in the next GTA (if possible).

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#27

Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 9 2011, 19:22)
I would be much more happy if the pedestrian reactions to what goes on were improved.

I know this is an entirely different game, but just look at how the civilians react to everything that is happening in this video.
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

that was all scripting.........

i do want to see the AI do some daily things lke go to a job then go home, but tahtt would require a lot more enterrable buildings. Somethign like in Elder Scrolls

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#28

Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:12 PM

I'm well aware it was scripted. But it looked and felt like something real people would do in such a situation.

In addition, I've played through that level a few times, and all of the people crawling, or draging/carrying other people all seem to be in different spots each time, so there's some kind of randomness to it.

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#29

Posted 19 January 2011 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE (NinjaWJ @ Jan 18 2011, 22:26)
QUOTE (The_Mario_Man @ Jan 9 2011, 19:22)
I would be much more happy if the pedestrian reactions to what goes on were improved.

I know this is an entirely different game, but just look at how the civilians react to everything that is happening in this video.
(possible spoilers if you haven't played Modern Warfare 2.... but who hasn't?)

that was all scripting.........

i do want to see the AI do some daily things lke go to a job then go home, but tahtt would require a lot more enterrable buildings. Somethign like in Elder Scrolls

Scripted or not, how hard would it be to script it so that an NPC actually travels from A to B? I mean, when I was on the mission for Goldman Sachs, you stand outside, and you see a woman toking on a cig for hours, and if you hit her, she just walks back to the same spot and carries on smoking. Why not script it so she comes outside, smokes the cig and walks back in? How hard would that be to script...maybe like a few lines longer?

For me, I'd happily have a smaller map with more detailed NPC's, then have a big map where all the detail goes into the buildings.




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