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Grand Theft Auto: Family Ties

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mk91552
  • mk91552

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#721

Posted 20 December 2016 - 08:58 PM

I forget if it was Castellano or someone else I read about, but I remember a 70s or 80s era wiretap discussion going something like:

"Would you make your sons?"
"No. Maybe ten years ago. Maybe ten years from now. But not now. Not with the dope."
"The Colombos all make their kids."

I am currently conduct research for a book that I am writing about the American Mafia and their rise and fall from being the Unites States largest and most powerful national crime syndicate. I came across a series of wiretap evidence that the FBI had and the State investigators had garnered for the 1985/86 Commission Trial, the trial that dismantled the hierarchies of all five New York borgatas. Anyhow, the conversation about making, straightening out or inducting sons of mobsters was not conducted by Paul Castellano. It was actually between the Lucchese boss Antonio "Tony Ducks" Corallo and his chauffeur Salvatore Avellino, who was involved in racketeering in Long Islands garbage and refuse industry.
After law enforcement bugged Avellino's Jaguar (the car he used when driving his boss around), they came across enormous amounts of proof that the Mafia was a secret society and that induction of mobsters sons was a preoccupying concern. A decision to groom his son for induction induction occupied Avellino's thoughts in a 1983 wiretap. In a conversation with Corallo he raised the subject, referring to Andrew "Andy Mush" Russo, a Colombo caporegime.
Avellino: Andy Russo just made his other son, the youngest one.
Corallo: They (the Colombos) make all their kids, huh.
Avellino: Yeah, he made his two sons.
Corallo: Would you make your kids.
Avellino: No, not now. I mean my thinking right now is no. It might change five years from now, ten years from now, but right now my thinking is no.
I do not know exactly why the mob elders disagreed about making their sons, possibly because they didn't want to live in an environment where their father's could be put in a position to give the capital punishment against their sons, death, or they just didn't want their sons to live the life they did because they had carved out a nice life for them so they could aspire to be something greater. Who knows. But I do know it had nothing to do with drugs. The Mafia leaders were, in truth, a bunch of hypocrites. They would recieve the envelopes the capos and soldiers kicked up to them, often the profits of drug trafficking or peddling, but if they saw caught anyone trafficking, they were done, finished. Really, when you think about, the Mafia is just a bunch of people that are only in it for themselves, to make as much illegal money as possible before cutting loose or striking a deal with the DA or prosecutors to be processed into WITSEC, the mob equivalent of a retirement program, ending up on a sunny beach under a new name. I mean just look at Michael De Santa off GTA V, the mansion he lived in.

Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#722

Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:20 PM

I forget if it was Castellano or someone else I read about, but I remember a 70s or 80s era wiretap discussion going something like:

"Would you make your sons?"
"No. Maybe ten years ago. Maybe ten years from now. But not now. Not with the dope."
"The Colombos all make their kids."

I am currently conduct research for a book that I am writing about the American Mafia and their rise and fall from being the Unites States largest and most powerful national crime syndicate. I came across a series of wiretap evidence that the FBI had and the State investigators had garnered for the 1985/86 Commission Trial, the trial that dismantled the hierarchies of all five New York borgatas. Anyhow, the conversation about making, straightening out or inducting sons of mobsters was not conducted by Paul Castellano. It was actually between the Lucchese boss Antonio "Tony Ducks" Corallo and his chauffeur Salvatore Avellino, who was involved in racketeering in Long Islands garbage and refuse industry.
After law enforcement bugged Avellino's Jaguar (the car he used when driving his boss around), they came across enormous amounts of proof that the Mafia was a secret society and that induction of mobsters sons was a preoccupying concern. A decision to groom his son for induction induction occupied Avellino's thoughts in a 1983 wiretap. In a conversation with Corallo he raised the subject, referring to Andrew "Andy Mush" Russo, a Colombo caporegime.
Avellino: Andy Russo just made his other son, the youngest one.
Corallo: They (the Colombos) make all their kids, huh.
Avellino: Yeah, he made his two sons.
Corallo: Would you make your kids.
Avellino: No, not now. I mean my thinking right now is no. It might change five years from now, ten years from now, but right now my thinking is no.
I do not know exactly why the mob elders disagreed about making their sons, possibly because they didn't want to live in an environment where their father's could be put in a position to give the capital punishment against their sons, death, or they just didn't want their sons to live the life they did because they had carved out a nice life for them so they could aspire to be something greater. Who knows. But I do know it had nothing to do with drugs. The Mafia leaders were, in truth, a bunch of hypocrites. They would recieve the envelopes the capos and soldiers kicked up to them, often the profits of drug trafficking or peddling, but if they saw caught anyone trafficking, they were done, finished. Really, when you think about, the Mafia is just a bunch of people that are only in it for themselves, to make as much illegal money as possible before cutting loose or striking a deal with the DA or prosecutors to be processed into WITSEC, the mob equivalent of a retirement program, ending up on a sunny beach under a new name. I mean just look at Michael De Santa off GTA V, the mansion he lived in.

Thanks for clearing that up.. I was unaware of the conversation in question although I am familiar with the other information. The son in question is Billy Russo who is a capo in the the family now. I think he was actually considered as a candidate to take over as boss not too long ago too. Andy Mush is actually a pretty interesting character. He's the cousin of the official boss Carmine Persico and served as the family's underboss from 1973-1977 and later became acting boss (for the imprisoned Persico in 2011). He is also a good friend of actor James Caan (who played Sonny Corleone) and a godfather of his son Scott (star of Hawaii 5-0). Caan actually landed in hot water due to his connection to Russo when it was revealed during a bail hearing and he later offered to stand bail for his release. It's said that production of The Godfather was actually halted in 1971 until Joe Colombo gave the go ahead for it to be filmed following authorised script changes (removing the words Mafia and Cosa Nostra from the script) and the agreed donation of all profits from the premiere to Colombo's Civil Rights League. Its likely that this friendship played into that somehow. Aside from other minor influences the Corleones are mostly based on the Colombos too so it makes sense that their boss would want to review the script before it made it to the big screen. The Colombos actually have a pretty long history in the entertainment industry and actor Tony Sirico (from the Sopranos) was once a member too. I also think you're probably right about the reasoning behind the older mafiosos not wanting to make their sons and the Colombos actually saw those fears come true on several occasions. Most notably when the son of a former underboss John Franzese Jr. turned states evidence against his father in 2010.


Scotty420
  • Scotty420

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#723

Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:38 AM Edited by Scotty420, 30 January 2017 - 08:43 AM.

Well, as much I do love this beautiful mafia story, but still I thought Carlo will only work for the Lupisella's in the whole story and be made man, capo or something and marry with Daniela Lupisella since I haven't that time those years to read the single chapters and I did it today for the first time and realized how emotional and beautiful the story is... most of all I liked the part where they were about to kill Dino somehow and that with Dani being mad and those phone calls, just so sad... 

 

I remember seeing this thread 'bout 2 years ago in December 2015 and PMing @Money Over Bullsh*t though its a real mod for GTA IV, but when he told me its just a mafia story based in GTA 4 I was so disappointed i though also I can play it in the game...wish it was true... ha ha :D

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Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#724

Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:40 PM

Well, as much I do love this beautiful mafia story, but still I thought Carlo will only work for the Lupisella's in the whole story and be made man, capo or something and marry with Daniela Lupisella since I haven't that time those years to read the single chapters and I did it today for the first time and realized how emotional and beautiful the story is... most of all I liked the part where they were about to kill Dino somehow and that with Dani being mad and those phone calls, just so sad... 

 

I remember seeing this thread 'bout 2 years ago in December 2015 and PMing @Money Over Bullsh*t though its a real mod for GTA IV, but when he told me its just a mafia story based in GTA 4 I was so disappointed i though also I can play it in the game...wish it was true... ha ha :D

Thanks a lot man. That's actually quite a common misconception about this and other concepts. I've had several people message me thinking it was a mod in the past so don't feel bad :)

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EM_JAY_86
  • EM_JAY_86

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#725

Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:00 AM Edited by EM_JAY_86, 19 February 2017 - 02:51 AM.

Whats up MOB, haven't had a chance to post for a while mate but really enjoyed the last few missions. First off i love the idea off liberty city in winter time and it was a great setting for the sammy bottino encounter. I'm not aware of the circumstances of nicky's death but i felt for sammy knowing that the life his son followed him into led to a gruesome end. Having different approaches into the airport also give an otherwise straight forward mission some replay value. I genuinly was heart broken for carlo also when peter turned him away when he approached him about the feds puttin pressure on him, especially when paulie later asks why he doesn't go to his own people. It's an honest depiction of the mob in the way that the brotherhood aspect only really applied when the higher ups are happy and earning, but 9/10 times self preservation come first, like gianco tells carlo "everything goes up the ladder". At least pete seemed honest with carlo after the attack on his mother and gave him the choice to go after ancelotti (albeit on his own). I thought it was a great choice to have paulie send you to clip phil bell, and tho i first thought i'd spare phil cos i liked him in IV, i think after playing through the game and approaching the hit from carlo's perspective i would have killed him. That was his ticket out of town (or so he thought) so why risk f*ckin it up.
The set up for the construction scene was great as well, like people have already mentioned ancelotti's appearance in this and the final mission with his cane and his smoking jacket and pyjamas really match up with his character description, his inflated ego and presence indicate a man who's hopelessly trying to hold on to not just his failing empire, but the far long lost youth he so desperatly tried to cling to over the years. At least thats what i took from it. Nice touch having him bring in some neopolitan heavy hitters to go after carlo's business and his mother, f*ckin vicious old bastard. I loved the image of him in his pj's breakin out the gusenberg sweeper like a real hollywood prohibition era gangster, great touch. I thought the final mission played out really well, even if there wasn't a huge build up and reveal of the main antagonist, the attack on carlo's mother was enough to make it very satisfying. The recent call from carlo's ma about him not visiting gives an extra heartfelt kick to the proatag also, given that she's now suffering for his exploits.
I know u said u left the paulie gianco situation as a grey area as far as his true intentions but i would have took the time to go after him too, seems to me that he was looking to cover all base's by sending u after phil then giving u up to ancelotti, that's enough for me even if he wasn't in on going after carlo's mother, and we're going after a boss anyway so what's the difference if we take out a capo along the way. I don't know the whole background on their working relationship tho so i'm more than likely missing something.
As i've mentioned before i'm really intrigued by the FIB plot line and the back and forth dialogue was imo some of the best you've written, as well as the scene setting with the five family trees on the boards. The tie in with bell's and paulie's phine conversation was a nice touch too. The feds really seem to have carlo by the balls here so i'm lookin forward to seeing how it plays out.

All in all great closing missions to the concept MOB, sorry for the long write up but tryna cram as much feedback as possible. Looking forward to the epilogue and hope u get a chance to post it soon.
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Money Over Bullshit
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#726

Posted 19 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

Whats up MOB, haven't had a chance to post for a while mate but really enjoyed the last few missions. First off i love the idea off liberty city in winter time and it was a great setting for the sammy bottino encounter. I'm not aware of the circumstances of nicky's death but i felt for sammy knowing that the life his son followed him into led to a gruesome end. Having different approaches into the airport also give an otherwise straight forward mission some replay value. I genuinly was heart broken for carlo also when peter turned him away when he approached him about the feds puttin pressure on him, especially when paulie later asks why he doesn't go to his own people. It's an honest depiction of the mob in the way that the brotherhood aspect only really applied when the higher ups are happy and earning, but 9/10 times self preservation come first, like gianco tells carlo "everything goes up the ladder". At least pete seemed honest with carlo after the attack on his mother and gave him the choice to go after ancelotti (albeit on his own). I thought it was a great choice to have paulie send you to clip phil bell, and tho i first thought i'd spare phil cos i liked him in IV, i think after playing through the game and approaching the hit from carlo's perspective i would have killed him. That was his ticket out of town (or so he thought) so why risk f*ckin it up.
The set up for the construction scene was great as well, like people have already mentioned ancelotti's appearance in this and the final mission with his cane and his smoking jacket and pyjamas really match up with his character description, his inflated ego and presence indicate a man who's hopelessly trying to hold on to not just his failing empire, but the far long lost youth he so desperatly tried to cling to over the years. At least thats what i took from it. Nice touch having him bring in some neopolitan heavy hitters to go after carlo's business and his mother, f*ckin vicious old bastard. I loved the image of him in his pj's breakin out the gusenberg sweeper like a real hollywood prohibition era gangster, great touch. I thought the final mission played out really well, even if there wasn't a huge build up and reveal of the main antagonist, the attack on carlo's mother was enough to make it very satisfying. The recent call from carlo's ma about him not visiting gives an extra heartfelt kick to the proatag also, given that she's now suffering for his exploits.
I know u said u left the paulie gianco situation as a grey area as far as his true intentions but i would have took the time to go after him too, seems to me that he was looking to cover all base's by sending u after phil then giving u up to ancelotti, that's enough for me even if he wasn't in on going after carlo's mother, and we're going after a boss anyway so what's the difference if we take out a capo along the way. I don't know the whole background on their working relationship tho so i'm more than likely missing something.
As i've mentioned before i'm really intrigued by the FIB plot line and the back and forth dialogue was imo some of the best you've written, as well as the scene setting with the five family trees on the boards. The tie in with bell's and paulie's phine conversation was a nice touch too. The feds really seem to have carlo by the balls here so i'm lookin forward to seeing how it plays out.

All in all great closing missions to the concept MOB, sorry for the long write up but tryna cram as much feedback as possible. Looking forward to the epilogue and hope u get a chance to post it soon.

No worries about the long write up mate.. I love a bit of in depth analysis :)

 

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything I've tried to put across in the last few chapters and it really makes me happy that they could hit with somebody like that.

 

The Epilogue will pretty much revolve around Carlo and the feds but will also show the effect of their ongoing investigation not only on Carlo but on the mob as a whole. Like the old song goes some will win and some will lose while some were born to sing the blues but the movie never ends.. it goes on and on, and on.

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DidSomebodySayYouga
  • DidSomebodySayYouga

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#727

Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:06 PM Edited by Niko-las RUS, 22 March 2017 - 03:08 PM.

I'm just in shock.

Tell me, how did you guess that in the next game will Gallardo has been named Vacca?

http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Vacca

 

Post not edited like, and he's already written in 2010 ...

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Great Britain
  • Great Britain

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#728

Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:11 PM

I'm just in shock.

Tell me, how did you guess that in the next game will Gallardo has been named Vacca?

http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Vacca

 

Post not edited like, and he's already written in 2010 ...

I think someone at Rockstar has been paying attention to the forums after all.  :)


Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#729

Posted 23 March 2017 - 10:42 AM

I'm just in shock.

Tell me, how did you guess that in the next game will Gallardo has been named Vacca?

http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Vacca

 

Post not edited like, and he's already written in 2010 ...

I'd love to say that I'm psychic but I actually did edit the post. It was originally called something else, as was the Cognoscenti Cabrio :)





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