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Grand Theft Auto: Family Ties

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Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#691

Posted 19 February 2016 - 04:39 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 19 February 2016 - 05:37 PM.

 

Now that you mention it though eliminating the competition from the Spanish Lords does actually fit in with what I had in mind. Basically the backstory of Capra's car ring is that he initially has Carlo steal the cars for him before using his connection to Stevie who enlists the help of Niko to steal them instead. This goes above and beyond the story but my long term idea was that over time Capra moves his operation into Boulevard in Bohan (which would now be open territory) and starts using the cars as a front for smuggling in heroin from overseas and shipping it elsewhere. This is why his crew is seen hanging out in that compound opposite the tennis courts in Chinatown Wars. The scheme is based on a mixture of one in the 1970s run by Gambino soldier Roy DeMeo (who also provided the initial inspiration for Capra's character) and another one seen in the movie The French Connection where the mafia are shipping heroin overseas packed into the frames of cars. The movie as a whole is also an obvious inspiration for the opening sequence of GTA IV which has members of the Triads filling a car with Heroin and it being lifted down onto the dock as another car speeds into view. Coincidentally, in keeping with CTW, Capra's scheme is also one involving the Triads, with the Midtown Gangsters acting as dealers and hitmen on the streets. Involving Fredo Volpe and Gerald McReary would put the job under certain time constraints but I don't see why he couldn't work for Stevie alongside Gordon (since the two seem to be friends). Up until now I tried to not step on Akaviri's toes regarding Blood and a Four Leaf Clover but this policy would kind of need to be changed if I were to have you work with Gordon. He has got ample reason to be involved in it though so I'm really in two minds as to whether to include him or not. In order to make it work Carlo would also need to have met Stevie previously so I might make the missions choice dependent like the ones in GTA IV by having them only open up if you choose to spare Mark Volpe in Chapter 14 and meet up with Stevie at the garage when you collect his car.

 

I've actually been working on a Roy DeMeo character for a while now (coincidentally with Steven Van Zandt as a character picture, though I'm sure you're aware of the uncanny resemblance between the two) sourcing a lot from the car theft racket you mention -- mainly the overseas connection to Kuwait, where I'd have containers return with heroin smuggled in by a shady Golden Triangle figure -- and relationship with the Westies (McRearys) in regards to it. Of course this now interests me a whole lot more as it's becoming obvious you've thought out even the most fleeting plot points extensively. :O

 

To tell you the truth I honestly thought you based Jimmy Capra on Anthony Mirra but I can see an amalgamation of the two in his appearances as the ultimate nasty bastard, with Mirra being notorious for his attacks on hookers and unsuspecting civilians. Some of the inspiration in this still astounds me.

 

Though I can't speak for Akavari (and I hope he's still around to confirm) but I'm sure it's been bought up before and the feeling was we shouldn't restrict each other in using them. I am hopeful you'll run with the Stevie and Gordon idea; it's the perfect opportunity to expand on a briefly alluded connection, which the two of you are famous for.

 

Something else I think is worth considering after I've had another read through is the Chapter 15 (Part 3) news story of "Slick Vic" Conti being involved in a war over territory in Alderney. Would I be right in saying this is over the events of Payback? I actually not long completed this mission and one thing I noticed is that the Pavanos seem to use the Irish Mob as muscle out of Auto Eroticar.

 

Now with Slick Vic looking like a pretty mean waterfront operator I'm thinking of adding to the initial idea and suggesting instead of a dock shootout with the Spanish Lords, the Messinas go the diplomatic route (using Carlo's negotiation skills) and conspire to a partnership with the Pavanos for use of the Alderney waterfront to ship their cars. Instead of tearing up the dock, Carlo and Gordon would sever Pavano ties (Slick Vic's condition of doing business) with the Spanish Lords once a deal is cemented between the families on by shooting up the Fan Dang Club in Alderney City and simply making them a casualty. What do you think?

 

I'm also a big fan of your ideas for building a personal motivation for Nino's favor mission and although you don't want to give too much up at the moment, I'm really looking forward to how that one turns out. For a minor character we've seen so far I have the feeling you imagine giving him a substantial amount of depth that probably puts most the cast of GTAV to shame.

 

Yes you're right the original character description is based mostly on that of Anthony Mirra.. I just never really got around to changing it. As previously mentioned my interest in the mob had only just been sparked when I started this topic so I didn't really have the depth of knowledge to make the biographies unique. In some cases I literally just ripped off the backstory of a real life mobster and changed a handful of details. With Jimmy Capra I wanted to create a depraved loose cannon type of enforcer but as the character evolved he started to morph into DeMeo a little bit more, he's not completely based on DeMeo though... he's moreso the product of a what if scenario i.e. what if Roy DeMeo's son Albert followed him into the life of crime. How would his father's murder effect him and would he try to set himself apart from the legacy he left or follow pretty closely in his footsteps. In Jimmy's case the murder of his his father Alberto (based more closely on DeMeo) effected him pretty deep psychologically in his late teens and he began to strive to be just like the father he had lost at a crucial time (just when he was on the cusp of manhood). On top of this Alberto was a violent man both in and out of the home and he would frequently abuse his wife and son. This abuse then also carried over into school where he was teased for having a father who was a convicted felon. His mother would have picked up on this and in turn (despite him asking her not to) she would have told his father who would have told him not to be such a sissy and simply beat the sh*t out of those who were teasing him, possibly even arming him with the pocket knife he used in order to stab people. This ill treatment would have not only made him incredibly angry and turned him into a bully himself but would have also made him incredibly tough. This is why he's so desperate to be seen as such a big tough guy when he's around other mobsters. Remember how nice he was to Carlo in their one on one interactions for example? His whole personality is essentially driven by an intense desire to be liked and feared in equal measures. Resemblances aside I felt that Steven Van Zandt (or rather Silvio Dante) was perfect for the role because not only does he have the ability to play both light and shade, we've also seen how he can be when he loses his temper. Actually come to think of it I should really redo that backstory :)

 

As far as Slick Vic and the Pavanos go.. yes you would be right in saying that the story refers to the mission Payback.. not only Payback but the whole Pegorino-Pavano conflict starting with Pegorino's Pride. My thoughts on the proceeding events is that the two families would have worked alongside each other for years with the Pavanos controlling part of the Jersey docks (like the Genoveses in real life) and Pegorino "letting" them run their shylocking business there too. In reality however I'm thinking that they treat Pegorino as nothing more than an errand boy. I can see the Pavanos having a good relationship with the Ancelottis dating back to the 1960s due to their former Boss Giuseppe Pavano originating from Naples just like Giovanni Ancelotti and his deceased uncle Giorgio so I'm thinking that the Pegorinos ongoing attacks would have given the Pavanos good reason to strike back in support of their much weaker allies, or at least that would be their excuse. In reality they would have been looking for a way to force the Pegorinos out of Alderney for years so that they could seize their territory (which they eventually do).

 

Now that we've gotten the exposition out of the way. I have to say yes I do think your idea could work but maybe some elements of your previous idea could also carry over. What if the Spanish Lords were operating out of the docks and cutting the Pavano Family in on their action. They get pissed off when you eliminate their source of income but eventually agree to migrate their allegiances to you if you can finish what you started and eliminate the Spanish Lords once and for all - in order to alleviate them of the burden of having to step in and mitigate the conflict on their behalf. The logic being that The Messinas are offering them a better deal (due to the added profits of shipping the heroin) but the Spanish Lords are unpredictable and they aren't going to take too kindly to the Pavanos simply telling them they're out and will suspect that the two families are cahoots against them (which they essentially are). Do you think this could work or is a bit to convoluted??

 

As a side note I've actually already started into bringing these favors missions into fruition by making a list of characters and unlock points in the Mini Games and Side missions section on Page 1. You may notice that I have added two previous undiscussed characters to the list namely Sharon Morton and Butch the Boxer from Chapter 9. The reason I haven't mentioned them previously is that I literally only came up with them last night. Basically my ideas for the two characters are these:

 

Butchy has started reflecting on his life after you beat the living sh*t out of him and now wants to leave his mark on the world by becoming an entrepreneur. Turns out the punch drunk bastard wants to set up a chain of Juice carts around the city and wean everybody off of their addiction to junk food. The first step in his hairbrained scheme is to have you somehow destroy all of those fairly useless hotdog carts around the city to clear out some prime locations for his healthy new offering.

 

Sharon on the other hand has found herself in a spot of bother due to opening her legs for every two bit gangster she meets. It turns out that her new ex boyfriend has been sleeping with another whore behind her back. But Sharon isn't about to stay mad, she wants to get even. Turns out the sleazeball in question is a pretty successful coke dealer and he keeps a stash of money in a locker at the Grand Easton Terminal. The only problem is he always keeps the key on his person meaning that you must figure out a way to get it somehow. The most direct option would just be to kill him and take it but Carlo refuses to validate the assumption that he has feelings for Sharon by killing her boyfriend, stating that this is "strictly business". As it turns out though Sharon has another plan. The man in question frequently visits a seedy Chinatown bath house where he gets a special rub down from a very gifted "masseuse". The very nature of the service requires him to be naked, meaning that his clothes (and the key) must be left in a nearby locker room. Carlo must sneak in there and steal it from him without anybody noticing and then bring it to Sharon who insists that you drive her to the station so that she can show you her gratitude, hopefully by giving you part of the stash.


Tyla
  • Tyla

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#692

Posted 20 February 2016 - 10:12 AM

The favors missions are looking fantastic so far man. And yes we're definitely on the same track with the Pavano/Spanish Lords thing. :^:

 

Both the favors for Butch and Sharon are pretty ingenious plots and make for missions that break the mold. It's funny because Gino's juice thing reminds me of Espresso 2 Go from GTAIII... and it's f*cked up to think how long ago (but how recent it feels!) street corner coffee became the 'new' thing. Safe to say both Butchy and Sharon end up millionaires!!

 

Are you done for favor character/mission suggestions for now or would you still be looking for more?

 

Yes you're right the original character description is based mostly on that of Anthony Mirra.. I just never really got around to changing it. As previously mentioned my interest in the mob had only just been sparked when I started this topic so I didn't really have the depth of knowledge to make the biographies unique. In some cases I literally just ripped off the backstory of a real life mobster and changed a handful of details. With Jimmy Capra I wanted to create a depraved loose cannon type of enforcer but as the character evolved he started to morph into DeMeo a little bit more, he's not completely based on DeMeo though... he's moreso the product of a what if scenario i.e. what if Roy DeMeo's son Albert followed him into the life of crime. How would his father's murder effect him and would he try to set himself apart from the legacy he left or follow pretty closely in his footsteps. In Jimmy's case the murder of his his father Alberto (based more closely on DeMeo) effected him pretty deep psychologically in his late teens and he began to strive to be just like the father he had lost at a crucial time (just when he was on the cusp of manhood). On top of this Alberto was a violent man both in and out of the home and he would frequently abuse his wife and son. This abuse then also carried over into school where he was teased for having a father who was a convicted felon. His mother would have picked up on this and in turn (despite him asking her not to) she would have told his father who would have told him not to be such a sissy and simply beat the sh*t out of those who were teasing him, possibly even arming him with the pocket knife he used in order to stab people. This ill treatment would have not only made him incredibly angry and turned him into a bully himself but would have also made him incredibly tough. This is why he's so desperate to be seen as such a big tough guy when he's around other mobsters. Remember how nice he was to Carlo in their one on one interactions for example? His whole personality is essentially driven by an intense desire to be liked and feared in equal measures. Resemblances aside I felt that Steven Van Zandt (or rather Silvio Dante) was perfect for the role because not only does he have the ability to play both light and shade, we've also seen how he can be when he loses his temper. Actually come to think of it I should really redo that backstory :)

 

I think I've said this before but Jimmy Capra has always been one of my favorite characters in this concept and probably the one I was looking forward to seeing most in the story. Your post here sums up exactly why. A lot of Mafia characters and the lifestyle tend to be over romanticized. It tends to be avoided what shapes these men into who they are and I'm glad you've never shied from this aspect. In this way I think Family Ties makes the best case for a Mafia centered story because the sheer diversity of how the street level (also the bosses and higher-ups) are portrayed. I notice this sort of back story isn't exclusive to Jimmy Capra but a theme of sorts throughout the entire story so far... a number of the characters who appear are basically born into the life:  going through the biographies they have fathers who were part of the families and in most cases were murdered. An irony of this (I don't know if intended) is that most of them tend to end up dead themselves -- Sammy Bottino's random encounter briefly reflects on this. It raises a clever question of family ties in general if the other characters had sons, do we think they would introduce them into the life, with us having seen the top and bottom of life with Liberty City's five families. I forget if it was Castellano or someone else I read about, but I remember a 70s or 80s era wiretap discussion going something like:

 

"Would you make your sons?"

"No. Maybe ten years ago. Maybe ten years from now. But not now. Not with the dope."

"The Colombos all make their kids."

 

And how did the Colombos end up? Even the Ancelottis in this concept. Most of them are dead or doing life. In the case of the organization things probably turn out best for in the end -- the Pavanos (with I think their basis being the Genoveses) -- few to none of the main characters from that family seem to have been born into it opposed to the least powerful of the families: the Lupisellas and Ancelottis. If we contemplate how things probably turn out for Jimmy beyond the events of this story, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine he ends up in the can and whacked (like Roy DeMeo) in case he talks to the feds, despite the tough bastard he's proven to be.

 

You got these guys personalities down to a tee, though especially Jimmy Capra. The Mirra thing is something I initially picked up through the personality traits you mentioned... and the way Mirra was known for being fearfully intimidating likely being because he was so close to Carmine Galante, another wildly unpredictable nutcase. It impresses me how you cultivated the same atmosphere in Carlo's interactions with Jimmy, and he's probably become a favorite of mine because your attention to developing personalities through dialogue makes me identify him with the few mobsters I've researched.


Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

    Mack Militant

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#693

Posted 20 February 2016 - 01:42 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 03 March 2016 - 02:05 PM.

I've tried not to base any of my characters on just one person. For example Jimmy Capra is based on a little bit of Mirra, a little bit of DeMeo, a little bit of Tommy DeSimone (as played by Joe Pesci) and a little bit of "Shorty" Spero all mixed with a helping of Van Zandt as Silvio Dante. The good thing about using a lot of characters who were mentioned in GTA IV is that there is a good bit of background information for me to expand upon contained within their profiles on the LCPD database. Not surprisingly however my own favourite characters are those which I have created completely from scratch. The fact that many of them have older relatives in the mafia is something that was done intentionally not to be lazy but in order to represent the real life mafia whereby the general rule is if you have family in the mob you're pretty much destined to become a member yourself. It wasn't that intentional that all of these characters seem to die though.. that's just kind of something that comes with the life. It is actually interesting though that you mention that quote. If you look at the characters in this story the ones who have relatives in the mob are all ones that were born prior to the 1950s with the youngest being Sammy Bottino. You have to remember though this is something that he had absolutely no control over. In my interpretation Sammy is somewhat proud that Nicky chose to follow in his footsteps but had he been around he likely would have chosen another life for him. Nowadays a mobsters son is much more likely to be an AJ Soprano than a Nicky Bottino. I'm not really a fan of Rockstar's choice of making mobsters 20 years younger than they actually should be i.e. basing their version of Sammy Bottino on the much older Sammy Gravano or making people "senior" and "long time capos" when they're only in their early 30s. I suppose making the children just like their famous fathers is somewhat like my counter to this in a sense but it certainly wouldn't be my main motivation. What I mean is I don't just want to copy somebody's personality and make them twenty years younger in order to fit in with the timeframe of the stories.. I want to say okay this guy is like this other guy that you might have heard of but there's a good reason for it. I do envision all of there relatives (uncles, fathers, cousins etc.) being based on real life mobsters but I wanted to make any similarities they share be fleeting at best.

 

Spot on with regards to the Butchy favour man it is an obvious easter egg which refers to the mission Espresso-2-Go! from GTA III although it won't be nearly as hard (no time limits). And yes I'm definitely open to hearing more suggestions.


Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#694

Posted 22 April 2016 - 04:43 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 02 June 2016 - 10:30 AM.

After a two month long hiatus I sat down today and started writing the final part of Chapter 18. It follows on directly from the previous installment. I'm not really sure when I'm going to finish it but here is a little snippet to tide you all over:

 

This part of the chapter opens up with Carlo standing in his underwear cleansing his wounds in the bathroom of his Richmond Island home. As he dries his face and examines himself in the mirror a loud knock will be heard on his front door. Carlo will stand frozen staring into the mirror in a momentary panic as the banging on his front door becomes louder and more repetitive. He will toss his bloody towel aside and descend the stairs into his hallway before opening his front door as two men on the other side look to be just about to call for a battering ram to break it in. He will instantly recognise the men as agents Russo and DeSoto of the FIB.

 

"Hey fellas.. nice jackets" he will say, making reference to their windbreakers with "FIB" emblazoned on the back.

 

Russo: "I hope we're not disturbing you"

 

His words will draw attention to Carlo's state of semi undress.

 

Carlo: "No actually I was just washing up.."

 

DeSoto: "We came by to see you the other day but apparently you weren't home. We were starting to get a little worried that you might have boarded a plane... or a helicopter and made your way out of the city"

 

Russo: "You look a little worse for wear.. are you sure everything's alright?"

 

Carlo: "Yeah I went out for a couple of drinks.. and got into a fight. You aint gonna jam me up for that are ya?"

 

DeSoto: "Not unless the other guy winded up dead.. besides it looks like you've suffered enough"

 

Russo: "We would like you to come into the city with us though.. we want to ask you a couple of questions"

 

Carlo: "And what if I say no?"

 

DeSoto will produce a pair of handcuffs from his pocket "Then you know the drill"

 

Carlo: "Hmm ok.. let me just put on some clothes. Unless you wanna be sat across the table from me with my junk hanging out"

 

DeSoto will look towards Russo for permission and Russo will nod

 

"Ok but I'm gonna be waiting around back to make sure you don't try anything stupid"

 

Carlo: "Ok but no peeking"

 

DeSoto will scoff at the suggestion

 

The scene will lapse and you will find yourself by Carlo's closet tasked with picking out something for him to wear. You will notice that the clothes that you were wearing in the previous segment will have been washed clean of any evidence so feel free to wear them if you feel like rubbing the agents noses in it.

 

Once you have picked out something suitable Carlo will join the agents outside his house and then walk complicitly with them towards a dark coloured Washington. The scene will once again fade to black and reopen a few seconds later with an exterior shot of a chopper landing on the roof of the FIB Headquarters in lower Algonquin before cutting to an interior shot of Carlo being lead into an interrogation room.

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mk91552
  • mk91552

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#695

Posted 21 June 2016 - 12:58 AM

I wish that Rockstar would take the time to have a look over all the concept ideas people have put out on the forums, including yours. The work you do is amazing. The way you have used the unseen characters of the game and made a story of each that are based off of actual real life characters. Harvey Noto being Joe Massino, Vincent Lupisella being Vincent Gigante, Jon Gravelli being Paul Castellano, Roy Zito being John Gotti, Sammy Bottino being Salvatore Gravano. I do want to know why Sammy Bottino and Roy Zito are rivals when in real life Salvatore Gravano and John Gotti were best friends until Gravano turned government witness. By the way, are you planning that Carlo eventually be caught up by the law with a RICO conviction or killed off.

Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

    Mack Militant

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#696

Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:37 AM

I wish that Rockstar would take the time to have a look over all the concept ideas people have put out on the forums, including yours. The work you do is amazing. The way you have used the unseen characters of the game and made a story of each that are based off of actual real life characters. Harvey Noto being Joe Massino, Vincent Lupisella being Vincent Gigante, Jon Gravelli being Paul Castellano, Roy Zito being John Gotti, Sammy Bottino being Salvatore Gravano. I do want to know why Sammy Bottino and Roy Zito are rivals when in real life Salvatore Gravano and John Gotti were best friends until Gravano turned government witness. By the way, are you planning that Carlo eventually be caught up by the law with a RICO conviction or killed off.

First off thanks man I always appreciate feedback whether it be positive or not. I tried to focus more on unseen and original characters in order to give the story some uniqueness and originality and even though many characters draw inspiration from real life people I don't feel like any of them are a 1:1 copy as I tried to mix up a few different influences into every character and put my own unique spin on the backstories of real life mobsters so as the give a feeling of realism but not outright copy real life at the same time. I originally had no intention of basing Bottino off Sammy Gravano and I still don't think I have. This was a connection that Rockstar made themselves in GTA V. Its also a similar situation with Vincent Lupisella, Rockstar made him quite a blatant rip off of Vincent Gigante but threw in their own humorous twist on aspects of his personality just like I have tried to do here. As far as your last question goes, you'll just have to wait and see although I'm not sure when I'll actually get to finish this as I've been really busy with other stuff lately so I haven't had time to sit down and do any writing at all. Rest assured though I do know exactly how all of this is going to end and I hope to have it it all tied up.. soon. 


mk91552
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#697

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by mk91552, 4 weeks ago.

I noticed there is a compilation between character traits and backstorys and aren't an exact copy of a singular real world person (most notably Jon Gravelli, who appears to be hash of Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano): However, it is the amount of depth you go into, your understanding of the mob and your ability to be able to turn a few unmentioned names from the LCPD database into a fully detailed story that is, in my opinion, better than what Rockstar pulled off with GTA IV, Lost and Damned and Ballad of Gay Tony combined. Being a person that enjoys learning about the Italian American mafia, I have enjoyed this story, despite the fact that to some extent there is a falsehood in the time setting. By 2008 the mob in New York, and in most of the USA, had practically dried due to the fact of RICO, not just with and the heavy sentencing it brought but the "rats" it created-destroying the whole heirachy of organised crime (e.g. Joe Massino turning government informant in 2004 and Sammy Gravano in 1991). Though that is not a thing that I think affects the story in any such way; number one being that this is the time period that GTA IV took place in and the time you had to work with (so automatically it is Rockstars blindness to realism in the first place) and two your writing ability and incorporation of historical figures embodied in these fictional characters really does broaden the professionalism and understanding of real life criminal. As I asked in my previous statement about whether or not Carlo would be convicted/ arrested or murder, I personally would like to say I would love the ending to be somewhat like Mafia: City of Lost Heaven; with Carlo betraying Roy Zito, Giovanni Ancelotti and the rest of the Commission. The reasons I would like this ending is number one I recall in one part you said that Roy would most likely be imprisoned due to his lack in ability of being discreet and number two being that Giovanni is the main antagonist Carlo's main task would be to get himself as faraway from him as possible. You could say that it should end with a big gun battle but truthfully an ending like this would be best to emphasise the reality of organised crime and reflect the moral consequence of a life of crime; having a crime boss send every single goon he has to find and kill you, having another crime boss pretty much waving a banner saying "I'm a f***king mobster everyone, come catch me if you can" and the FBI continuously nipping you at your heals waiting for you to slip up. Secondly, a gun battle would be to improbable, A) the implications of a gun battle between two crime families being tightly surveyed by the FBI would cause the Gambetti Crime Family and all the other families to be under tighter surveillance and less operationing space. B) the Ancelotti Family have suffered a lot (even stated by Don Ancelotti himself); they have lost majority of their unions, rackets, turf and men and would not have the muscle to have a massive shootout. I hope these few points both help and guide you to a great and successful ending to an excellent story that if you ask me should become a book or better yet a video game.

Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#698

Posted 4 weeks ago Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 4 weeks ago.

Being a person that enjoys learning about the Italian American mafia, I have enjoyed this story, despite the fact that to some extent there is a falsehood in the time setting. By 2008 the mob in New York, and in most of the USA, had practically dried due to the fact of RICO, not just with and the heavy sentencing it brought but the "rats" it created-destroying the whole heirachy of organised crime (e.g. Joe Massino turning government informant in 2004 and Sammy Gravano in 1991). Though that is not a thing that I think affects the story in any such way; number one being that this is the time period that GTA IV took place in and the time you had to work with (so automatically it is Rockstars blindness to realism in the first place) and two your writing ability and incorporation of historical figures embodied in these fictional characters really does broaden the professionalism and understanding of real life criminal. As I asked in my previous statement about whether or not Carlo would be convicted/ arrested or murder, I personally would like to say I would love the ending to be somewhat like Mafia: City of Lost Heaven; with Carlo betraying Roy Zito, Giovanni Ancelotti and the rest of the Commission. The reasons I would like this ending is number one I recall in one part you said that Roy would most likely be imprisoned due to his lack in ability of being discreet and number two being that Giovanni is the main antagonist Carlo's main task would be to get himself as faraway from him as possible. You could say that it should end with a big gun battle but truthfully an ending like this would be best to emphasise the reality of organised crime and reflect the moral consequence of a life of crime; having a crime boss send every single goon he has to find and kill you, having another crime boss pretty much waving a banner saying "I'm a f***king mobster everyone, come catch me if you can" and the FBI continuously nipping you at your heals waiting for you to slip up. Secondly, a gun battle would be to improbable, A) the implications of a gun battle between two crime families being tightly surveyed by the FBI would cause the Gambetti Crime Family and all the other families to be under tighter surveillance and less operationing space. B) the Ancelotti Family have suffered a lot (even stated by Don Ancelotti himself); they have lost majority of their unions, rackets, turf and men and would not have the muscle to have a massive shootout. I hope these few points both help and guide you to a great and successful ending to an excellent story that if you ask me should become a book or better yet a video game.

Although what you're saying is partially true I wouldn't say that by 2008 the mob in New York was completely obsolete. The Feds were really starting to get one over on them though so their power was greatly reduced. I feel that this story is pretty true to that aside from a few missions which call back to schemes of yesteryear thrown in to keep the story fun and interesting. I've done some thorough research though and I can assure you that the story is about 80 or 90% accurate. In the mid - late '00s the mob was still very much involved in most of their traditional rackets with a few more modern schemes thrown in to substitute ones which had previously been busted by the cops. The Sopranos (which ended in 2007) is some pretty good evidence of that.

 

One of the reasons there were so many rats is that the various families became less selective about who they inducted so a lot of people got in who saw La Cosa Nostra less as a way of life and more as a way to make money so it became less about honor and loyalty and more about dollars and cents. For that reason I'd say it was less so the RICO statutes and more so the witness protection program that dealt a serious blow to the mob. RICO allowed for much harsher sentencing but the self preservation from these sentences afforded by WITSEC is what really got people talking. Carlo is a man who is really conflicted.. he was born and raised in the streets so loyalty is a big thing to him, however he's beginning to realise more and this blind loyalty isn't being reciprocated by his peers despite how much he's done for them up until now. This is someting I hope to bring to a head in the next part of the story and hopefully set up nicely for the final chapter. As far as the final chapter goes.. it will be a little bit far fetched although I think this is to be expected from a work of fiction such as this. In saying that though the reasoning behind what happens I think will be plausible enough so as not to seem absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully it will put to bed most of your concerns at the same time too. I just need a bit of time and motivation to finish it now :D


Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

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#699

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 2 weeks ago.

Be it procrastination about completing the final part of Chapter 18 or just genuine boredom (probably a mixture of both). I've made the proposed changes to the Chapter 4 opener to include William Hambrough who will appear later in a series of Special Favors missions (that will be retroactively added). For those who are interested you can look at it here - http://gtaforums.com...entry1060429674

 

I kind of rattled it off and I don't feel like I really got to show Hambrough's personality but I wanted to hold back a few things for the favors missions. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it none the less.

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Tyla
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#700

Posted 2 weeks ago

Good to see you writing again MOB, I see you haven't lost your touch for writing sleazy white-collar types.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the special favors missions pan out.


Money Over Bullshit
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#701

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 2 weeks ago.

Good to see you writing again MOB, I see you haven't lost your touch for writing sleazy white-collar types.
 
I'm really looking forward to seeing how the special favors missions pan out.

Thanks man. I probably could've written out all of Habrough favors yesterday had I had the time. For some reason I just got a little burst of creativity yesterday evening but I couldn't afford to stay up all night writing. My biggest problem is not really lacking ideas.. I have everything pretty much planned out it's just finding the times where I'm actually motivated to put them down in print and just jumping on it. This topic is becoming somewhat like a magnum opus at this stage but I just have so many other things going on and so many ideas floating around in my head that it's hard to stay focused on one particular thing. I'm actually beginning to realise how George R. R. Martin must feel  :lol:


PhilosophicalZebra
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#702

Posted 2 weeks ago Edited by PhilosophicalZebra, 2 weeks ago.

I have to admit I've been a lazy ass in regards to reading through this concept, but I've finally caught up and I'm very impressed. Liberty City's mob scene was always pretty ripe for exploration, and the way you've managed to incorporate real life crime figures into the game in a believable way adds to the unique climate I get by reading it.

I'm anticipating your next few missions and I know blank page syndrome can be a pain in the ass. At least you've got it all planned out :)

Tyla
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#703

Posted 2 weeks ago

How far do you think you are actually off completing this? I know there's a bit of a snippet above (which I really need to find time to read) but I'm wondering if 18 is going to be the final one?

 

I also noticed I snagged the 700th post the other day, what a milestone. Congrats! :cookie:


Money Over Bullshit
  • Money Over Bullshit

    Mack Militant

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#704

Posted 2 weeks ago

I have to admit I've been a lazy ass in regards to reading through this concept, but I've finally caught up and I'm very impressed. Liberty City's mob scene was always pretty ripe for exploration, and the way you've managed to incorporate real life crime figures into the game in a believable way adds to the unique climate I get by reading it.

I'm anticipating your next few missions and I know blank page syndrome can be a pain in the ass. At least you've got it all planned out :)

Thanks a lot for taking the time to get up to speed man I know it can be a bit of chore sometimes to sit down and read through somebody's work. Hopefully I've kept it interesting enough to soften the blow :) The general consensus seems to be that the mob has been dead in NYC since Gotti went down when in fact this isn't the case. Most people just don't really have the same interest in the Mob that they once did so they choose not to seek out the related information. Sure they've been overshadowed by the likes of the Cartel in recent times but they're still very much active and a simple google search of recent articles from the New York media will confirm this. Not only are they still active but they're actually evolving and working along side the newer players in the drug market etc. in order to continue generating income. That's the thing about the mafia, they're like the mythical Hydra.. cut off one head and another one grows in its place. Law Enforcement has definitely struck them a number of serious blows but their war against them is similar to their war on drugs, no matter how many convictions they get the battle is everlasting. As previously stated I've called upon a few older schemes and things in order to invoke a bit of nostalgia and not have you spending the story running a wire room or cloning people's credit cards but I think a lot of the main elements of the modern mafia are still there, so the fact that people think its believable is a great compliment and I thank you for it.

 

I've recently seen your name being thrown about in relation to your Bohemians & Blackjack topic and I will definitely check that out in detail. I've already had a glance over it and it's looking really good so far.

 

How far do you think you are actually off completing this? I know there's a bit of a snippet above (which I really need to find time to read) but I'm wondering if 18 is going to be the final one?

 

I also noticed I snagged the 700th post the other day, what a milestone. Congrats! :cookie:

That snippet comes from the final part of chapter 18 which story wise will be the penultimate piece, with the single parted chapter 19 being the finale. After that there will be an epilogue and I also hope to post fully fledged adaptions of those special favors missions that we spoke about too. 700 posts certainly is a big milestone and it makes me proud that I've managed to bring it this far.

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