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Antagonist

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General Goose
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#1

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:17 AM

Well, I did a search and I couldn't find a good topic about who to have as the next villain in GTA, so I made one.

As the title implies, what kind of antagonist do you think will be good for a GTA, and what relationship should they have with the protagonist? If you've got a full, fleshed-out antagonist idea.

I think, obviously, there's two areas an antagonist can come from:

THE LAW/GOVERNMENT

The main possibility here is a cop. But what type of cop? It could be a dirty, dishonourable cop who abuses his power and is just as bad as the city's criminals, all the way down to a squeaky clean, competent, amiable cop and all-around good person, dedicated to bringing down the protagonist and his criminal friends who in any other story would have been the hero. Of course, the "good cop" one has several variants, ranging from unorthodox but still good (in D&D terms, chaotic good), to by-the-book and dutiful (lawful good) to so obsessed with getting their man they go all the way back to being a bad person (like these guys.)

Other possibilities in this category include politicians (dirty politicians, blackmailing politicians, anti-crime politicians, etc.) and government agents. As RDR had Edgar Ross, I think R* are likely to stay away from government agents for a while, though a Toreno/ULPC-style antagonist would be interesting, if possibly leading to a somewhat OTT story if handled badly.

CRIMINALS

Duh. Most antagonists have been this so far, and I think most will be in the future. Criminals offer a lot of variety. It could be a former friend of the protagonist (who turned on them, or vice versa, for whatever reason), a local kingpin feeling challenged by the rising star, the possibilities here are so varied I won't even bother listing them all.

SirPsychoSexy
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#2

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:30 AM

Those are probably the most obvious ones...

But was Edgar Ross really mean or an antagonists? Of course he made Marston do all those things, used him and he adventually had him killed but in a way Marston was just as much a villain as the other three in the eyes of the law so Ross is really a shade of gray when it comes to Good/Bad for me.

For antagonists I guess a private corporation and it's boss could be the antagonists, but I guess they'd be involved in criminal activity anyway...

General Goose
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#3

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:33 AM

Well, antagonist doesn't technically mean villain. You could have hero antagonists, like a good cop. I'd say Edgar was a knight templar in a way; so blinded in his quest to achieve his ideal world free of "outlaws" and so blinded by his own self-installed values of black and white morality, he himself became a villainous character.

SirPsychoSexy
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#4

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE (General Goose @ Jun 21 2010, 00:33)
Well, antagonist doesn't technically mean villain. You could have hero antagonists, like a good cop. I'd say Edgar was a knight templar in a way; so blinded in his quest to achieve his ideal world free of "outlaws" and so blinded by his own self-installed values of black and white morality, he himself became a villainous character.

I'd have to agree with you. I just thought of Bill and Dutch as the antagonists, maybe that's just me. Ross was what you described, but I never saw him as an antagonist.

General Goose
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#5

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:43 AM

I think RDR has multiple antagonists, which some games do have. Bill was the first antagonist, then Dutch, then Edgar.

SirPsychoSexy
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#6

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:46 AM

QUOTE (General Goose @ Jun 21 2010, 00:43)
I think RDR has multiple antagonists, which some games do have. Bill was the first antagonist, then Dutch, then Edgar.

Yes, but when I think about it I guess Edgar actually was the ultimate antagonist in the end, Bill and Dutch were sort of helpless (at least in the U.S tounge.gif )?, weren't they? Ross was the one with power and had the greatest impact on the story, it just wasn't really noticed in the beginning.

Anyway, back to the discussion about antagonists in future GTAs!

General Goose
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#7

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:48 AM

Of course, I would like to see a similar situation with antagonists in GTA NeXt; you think it's one guy, then it's another. Like with Niko the antagonist appeared to be the man he was hunting from the Balkans until Dimitri came along, and with Marston it looked like Bill, Javier and Dutch until Edgar came along and was revealed to be behind the scenes.

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#8

Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:50 AM

Well SA had a drug kingpin/old friend who betrayed him and some dirty cops.

I'd like to see either a clean cop or something new. or maybe an old friend.

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#9

Posted 21 June 2010 - 01:21 AM

R* needs to think outside the box.
I always think betrayal is great the 1st playthough. But, the second time through when you know he or she is going to betray isn't as fun.

I liked the whole, Lance Vance-Tommy Vecetti kind of betrayal.
Not to mention VC is maybe my favorite GTA. It's so much outside of the BOX.

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#10

Posted 21 June 2010 - 01:21 AM

I'm not overly bothered about the antagonist. In RDR, Edgar Ross, Bill and Dutch all stood against Marston's cause, therefore they were antagonists. Its the same with everything and it will be the same in V, whoever stands against the protagonist's way will be the antagonist whether that person is a good or bad guy.

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#11

Posted 21 June 2010 - 04:28 AM

I liked how SA had more then one antagonist you had Big Smoke, as well as Tenpenny of course in the end Tenpenny was the main antagonist. IV was different both Pegorino & Dimitri were the antagonists but some may consider Darko as a antagonist I just consider him a "bad guy" he really didn't get in your way as the story progressed he was just on Niko's mind a lot. I think that the next GTA should continue to follow the tradition of multiple antagonists.

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#12

Posted 21 June 2010 - 07:26 AM

QUOTE (General Goose @ Jun 21 2010, 00:43)
I think RDR has multiple antagonists, which some games do have. Bill was the first antagonist, then Dutch, then Edgar.

And don't forget Archer Fordham. xD

He is located to the left-to the left..

user posted image

sd13killer
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#13

Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:00 AM

An antagonist I want to see is a multiple endings to the story kind of one. Toward the end of the story two of your closest friends is like one that you've helped get out of the underbelly of society and start a new life. He goes into politics and becomes governor or mayor or something.
Then you have the criminal boss of a gang or mafia that you've helped develop into one of the most powerful factions of all time. Towards the end of the campaign they start to call you up to do many things.
Governor/Mayor- Kill this guy with criminal evidence, Take down previous drug buddies
Criminal Overlord- Steal these drugs, kill this crooked cop.

Eventually they want to hang and go to strip clubs and stuff and they will text you within seconds of eachother. This will happen about five times and depending on the times you do it.


A. 5-0 Governor---- Governor has very very high respect for you and Criminal Overlord has created an army to kill you.

B. 4-1 Governor---- Governor thinks that you are a very good friend and the Criminal Overlord has created a small squad of gang members to make sure that your not out trying to eliminate him.

C. 3-2 Governor---- Governor assumes you are a good friend but is concerned about your criminal activities and the Criminal Overlord has sent out a spy to check you out.

D. 3-2 Criminal Overlord Criminal Overlord likes your attitude but assumes you are up to something and the Governor has sent out a narc to check out your organization.

E. 4-1 Criminal Overlord Criminal Overlord has high respect for you and the Governor thinks that you are becoming a criminal and that it would benefit yourself and the city if you were behind bars. He sends a police squad after you.

F. 5-0 Criminal Overlord Criminal Overlord loves you like a brother and the Governor has sent an army after you in order to destroy your organization and you.


After this the last missions could go as follows:

A. After killing all those men you approach the Criminal Overlord for payback and the Governor issues you an APC and you rampage into the Criminal Overlords hideout. After killing all the people in the bottom of the building you proceed up the stairs and shoot up all his guards. He escapes via helicopter and the Governor's personal attack chopper arrives on the scene to pick you up. You chase down the chopper and destroy it.

B. The squad finds you talking to the governor about cleaning up the city and you kill them off. Then you and the Governor roll up on the Criminal Overlords hideout and he pulls out a gun at you and drives off in an armored truck with two other armored vehicles surrounding it. You and the Governor attempt to kill off the protection cars and through some nice explosion scenes with gas stations, tankers, and cliffs you finally stop the armored truck at the oceans edge over a large cliff. Harsh words are exchanged before you whip out a machine gun and shoot him off into the rocks below.

C. The spy finds you with the Governor talking about cleaning up the city and pulls out of the Governors driveway like a madman. You hear it and decide to chase him down, when the Governor is asked if he wants to check it out he declines. You chase the man in the car all the way to the Criminal Overlords hideout and then you stealthily knife the spy before he goes inside. Then after hiding the body you are allowed into the Crimina's hideout and have a nice chat about the dead man outside with the Criminal Overlord. The Criminal Overlord nervously backs out the door and runs off yelling for guards. After killing the guards the Criminal Overlord jumps out the window and parachutes into a boat. You follow and do the same. You have to kill the mafia behind you while keeping up with the Criminal Overlord and after a nice chase he crashes into some rocks. Coughing up water you lift him up on shore and exchange conversation. Then you push his head underwater until the bubbles stop.

D-E-F remain similar to A-B-C following similar formats except Criminal hideout is Governor's Office ect. biggrin.gif

Yes, I do feel special knowing I spent a half hour thinking up a dream. I will go to sleep good tonight.


WF the Hobgoblin
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#14

Posted 21 June 2010 - 10:33 AM

Islamic terrorists.

j/k

General Goose
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#15

Posted 21 June 2010 - 03:41 PM

Well, Archer Fordham was a minor antagonist at best. He posed no standalone threat, only serving as Ross's "backup".

sd13killer: Nice work there. Something similar to that would be nice.

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#16

Posted 21 June 2010 - 04:34 PM

What about the main antagonist being a female? lol.gif it was done in GTA 3, so why not again? sly.gif

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#17

Posted 21 June 2010 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE
What about the main antagonist being a female? lol.gif it was done in GTA 3, so why not again


Good point Catalina was a bad-ass antagonist she was really the type of antagonist that you just really wanted to kill and get your revenge on.

VercettiTheNiter
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#18

Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:39 PM

I think we need like a really sinister villain. To me the antagonists have been threatening. Well maybe except for Edgar Ross and Dimitri Rascalov. Others are laughably nonthreatening and you never see a sense of danger or urgency, like you could die at any moment. I wish Rockstar persues a villain that seems like the person that would be great to work for but as you get to know him and vice versa, he uses all his knowledge of you to completely f*ck you over. That's just me.

Bob_Dole
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#19

Posted 21 June 2010 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE
I think we need like a really sinister villain. To me the antagonists have been threatening


When you use the word sinister and villain I imagine antagonists like the green goblin and Lex Luther lol.

-As usual enjoy the funny GIF below.

user posted image

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#20

Posted 21 June 2010 - 08:01 PM

QUOTE (gameboybp @ Jun 21 2010, 18:02)
QUOTE
I think we need like a really sinister villain. To me the antagonists have been threatening


When you use the word sinister and villain I imagine antagonists like the green goblin and Lex Luther lol.

-As usual enjoy the funny GIF below.

user posted image

Ha ha smile.gif haven't seen that GIF in a while. Anyway on topic, I like the idea of your brother been the main antagonist.

General Goose
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#21

Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:23 PM

Now, a family member as an antagonist would be interesting. Some of the ways that could work are:
  • You are the son of a Mafia family/similar game, and you inevitably piss them off and have to run away.
  • Your dad/mother/uncle/whatever was a dick to you a long time ago, so taking him/her off the criminal throne would be satisfying.
  • You start off affably, but slowly drift away from the family member.

Any other ideas?

drscot
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#22

Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:38 PM

i would like to see a protag that starts out with everything, and then an antagonist takes that away from him. the protag will then have to build his empire - or maybe just his emotional strength back up again in order to finally crush the antagonist. it beats the classic rags to riches story

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#23

Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:46 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 18 August 2010 - 11:51 PM.

QUOTE (drscot @ Aug 19 2010, 00:38)
i would like to see a protag that starts out with everything, and then an antagonist takes that away from him. the protag will then have to build his empire - or maybe just his emotional strength back up again in order to finally crush the antagonist. it beats the classic rags to riches story

That's quite similar to the story of the Scarface game I believe monocle.gif

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#24

Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:57 PM

really? i haven't seen scarface

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#25

Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:21 AM

QUOTE (drscot @ Aug 18 2010, 23:57)
really? i haven't seen scarface

He's talking about the Scarface game on the PS2, which starts off where the movie ended...wait did you say you haven't seen Scarface? wow.gif

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#26

Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:33 AM

[QUOTE=TommyMufc-Champs,Jun 21 2010, 20:01] [QUOTE=gameboybp,Jun 21 2010, 18:02] I like the idea of your brother been the main antagonist. [/QUOTE]



yeah or you best friend, but have a decoy antag, and its not revealed to near the end that your brother/friend is behind the plot to kill you throughout the game.

p.s. ^^^^^^ i agree you havent seen scarface.! WTF? wow.gif wow.gif wow.gif wow.gif

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#27

Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:35 AM

i really don't know what you are going on about, but i will go along with it

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#28

Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (drscot @ Aug 19 2010, 00:35)
i really don't know what you are going on about, but i will go along with it

"Say hello to my little friend" not ring any bells?

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#29

Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:25 AM

QUOTE (drscot @ Aug 18 2010, 23:38)
i would like to see a protag that starts out with everything, and then an antagonist takes that away from him. the protag will then have to build his empire - or maybe just his emotional strength back up again in order to finally crush the antagonist. it beats the classic rags to riches story

I made a concept just like that.

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#30

Posted 19 August 2010 - 06:41 AM

man i like the betrayal antagonist like Lance Vance!!




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