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Why it shouldn't be in ANY real city

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MikeWh
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#1

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:03 PM

GTA has made it's name using pretend cities based on real ones, the only GTA(s) to break this rule were London and London '61.
By creating a game based around a real city wouldn't be effective as Rockstar make their games cheap by not paying for licences and brand usage. By creating London in GTA it would mean R* buying licences from lots of places.

You'd have the Metropolitan Police, for one. Their brand is copyrighted and the makers of The Bill have to pay a tidy sum each year for the right to use the uniforms and equipment.

Then the regional government, you couldn't use the tube. A TfL licence would cost a bit, there's then the cost for using the train manufacturer's trains and their buses.

Then the brands from everyday life: replacing the real with fake would spoil the illusion of realism intended by using a real city. Besides, The Getaway [PS3] is still in development.


They should keep it the way it was. Liberty, Vice and SA

I'd personally prefer Vice City to any real city anyway.

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#2

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:07 PM

Hold on... If R* cant have it in the UK or EU, why should they have it in the US?

Vice City is based in Miami, so surely they can put a pretend city in the UK, too?
:S
SOLVED.

MikeWh
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#3

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:07)
Hold on... If R* cant have it in the UK or EU, why should they have it in the US?

Vice City is based in Miami, so surely they can put a pretend city in the UK, too?
:S
SOLVED.

What I am saying is why move it from the US after 10 games of it being there?
It's traditionally been set in the states, in fact, the game started out as a parody of the United State's relaxed attitude to crime (rather a nice little joke from DMA that so many don't pick up on).

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#4

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:13 PM

No, its not been set in there the full series.
London 1961.

Now, if R* visited that with 3D graphics, it'd be amazing.
And what I'm saying is, why does this made up city have to be in the USA? confused.gif

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#5

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:14 PM Edited by SmC12, 02 June 2010 - 10:17 PM.

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:07)
Hold on... If R* cant have it in the UK or EU, why should they have it in the US?

Vice City is based in Miami, so surely they can put a pretend city in the UK, too?
:S
SOLVED.

They can, but it would feel weird in London. Why do you think GTA London and London '61 weren't named anything esle like the other GTAs?

Miami and LA, and LV, NY etc. are all well know throught the world (i know, so is London) and it's much easier to make up a name without completely changing everythig. Like Las Venturas (Vegas) for example.

London being called something like, Lodo (wtf? GTA: Lodo? lol.gif ) just wouldn't work well.
I don't know why but it just wouldn't.
London is London!

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#6

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:17 PM Edited by MikeWh, 02 June 2010 - 10:21 PM.

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:13)
No, its not been set in there the full series.
London 1961.

Now, if R* visited that with 3D graphics, it'd be amazing.
And what I'm saying is, why does this made up city have to be in the USA? confused.gif

You've clearly skimmed my post.
I am aware of GTA London [both 1969 and 1961].
After there we had
GTA 2
GTA III
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
GTA: Liberty City Stories
GTA: Advanced
GTA: Vice City Stories
GTA: IV
GTA: LaTD
GTA: Chinatown Wars
GTA: BoGT.

That is 10 games set in fictional cities in the US.

and as stated above, it's easy to recreate a generic city designed like another from the US and it wouldn't lose it's feel. Trying to recreate London, a land locked city anyway, no coast (nearest is Margate and Shepey way, I think) in the GTA Format would be a hard task. It would lose it's uniqueness. Besides, have you never played The Getaway (and the new one is scheduled for release in Q4 2011 or Q1 2012, I suggest you play them for a London based game).

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#7

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:24 PM

I'm glad you mentioned The Getaway, I played it years ago, and the vechiles were amazing, and I feel like putting it back in right now...
With GTA Graphics the city would be amazing, The Getaway had alright graphics and gameplay, but not even the slightest touch as reflections, R* could make alot out of London, and I never even said it had to be London.
What about Blackpool? They have Blackpool beach.

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#8

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:27 PM Edited by SmC12, 02 June 2010 - 10:29 PM.

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:24)
What about Blackpool? They have Blackpool beach.

GTA is a game for fans all across the world, you really think EVERYONE is going to know where Blackpool is?
Especially when they rename it, they'll have no clue where they are lol. tounge.gif

That's why the bigger cities like Miami and LA are better.

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#9

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:27 PM

Real simple reason why they wont, controversies, Jackass Thompson would have a HAYDAY with lawsuits and there is no infinite money cheat in real life R* as we know it would close shop due to legal fees by all the deranged soccer moms. That and when you make up your own city you can go crazy with whatever you want and make the map 10 times funner than a real city would be like.

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#10

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:24)
I'm glad you mentioned The Getaway, I played it years ago, and the vechiles were amazing, and I feel like putting it back in right now...
With GTA Graphics the city would be amazing, The Getaway had alright graphics and gameplay, but not even the slightest touch as reflections, R* could make alot out of London, and I never even said it had to be London.
What about Blackpool? They have Blackpool beach.

Great games, amazingly accurate London recreation (speaking as a Londoner myself) - even down to the nearest ATM.
Anyway: user posted image
Puts GTA IV to shame really, considering the age. It was just a map with preset traffic movement and just camera controls, but it was amazingly well done. Some people were arguing it was made on a comp beforehand but I can confirm it was rendered live, by a PS3. It will also be in the finished product (well, that street will).

RE: Blackpool - nice idea, a tad too small though isn't it.

The 3 Biggest Cities in the UK are all landlocked sad.gif .
London, Birmingham and Leeds. Maybe Bristol! [yes, that was sarcastic.]

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#11

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:31 PM

Yeah, I agree with the made up city feel, but why does it have to be based on the US?

Can't you guys just agree for R* to be fair and set it in the UK for once, or atleast make up a COMPLETE new map?

R* said they wanted their own living, breathing world, theyre not going to accomplish that staying in the US, made up or not, they've got to try something new, a risk, how do you think businesses develop?
I could only imagine YOU as a CEO...
"Lets do the same thing for a century and hope everyone will buy it!"
Nah, all businesses take risks, and R* has to realize that, what risks have R* took in the GTA Series? NONE...


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#12

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:31 PM Edited by 02fishera, 02 June 2010 - 10:35 PM.

Funny you should mention Blackpool, Blissco!. I'm working on a London concept at the moment and I'm going to add a DLC set in Blackpool. Yes its a strange idea but I though it was worth a try wink.gif

OT - Do we need another one of these threads? Theres already a thread for Europe with 11 pages full of these arguments. Actually I'm now tempted to make a thread about why it should be in London!

QUOTE
London, Birmingham and Leeds


I'm pretty sure Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Belfast are bigger than Leeds. And so what if London is land locked? R* got away with it when they made Las Venturas.

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#13

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:32 PM

And oh my God that black taxi and bus looks like real life!

And glad I mentioned Blackpool now, looking at the response its giving,

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#14

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:39 PM Edited by SmC12, 02 June 2010 - 10:43 PM.

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:31)
Yeah, I agree with the made up city feel, but why does it have to be based on the US?

Can't you guys just agree for R* to be fair and set it in the UK for once, or atleast make up a COMPLETE new map?

R* said they wanted their own living, breathing world, theyre not going to accomplish that staying in the US, made up or not, they've got to try something new, a risk, how do you think businesses develop?
I could only imagine YOU as a CEO...
"Lets do the same thing for a century and hope everyone will buy it!"
Nah, all businesses take risks, and R* has to realize that, what risks have R* took in the GTA Series? NONE...

The Living Breathing World thing isn't to do with location, it's stuff like smarter AI etc.

And even though it may be fair for them to give other cities a chance, you have to undestand that just because YOU know all about London or that you know about Blackpool, (or anywhere else not as well know) doesn't mean that all the other millions of GTA fans are going to know about it, and then R* have to rename that place to something made up, if you didn't know where Blackpool was already then how are you supposed to figure it out with some made up name?

LA, Miami, New York, Vegas are all well known throughout the whole world. London is also known about, but not much is actually known about the culture and lifestyle. People from other countires just know that London is in the UK and has some famous landmarks. When you mention LA or Vegas for example, you know more about those cities because they are much more known and talked about throughot the world and are also seen more in movies than other places such as London.

So you see why the bigger, more well known city would be a better choice for R* to suit all GTA fans. It just so happens that those main cities are all in the USA.

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#15

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:42 PM

Was there any need for the novel?
Now, EU had to get used to the US, its just plain stupid to say that US shouldnt have to get used to the UK.
Most EU citizens may have known nothing about the US, but GTA still put it in there, didnt they!?!
If US dont know about the UK, all I can say is, it's better to learn about different cultures than stick with one.

And, the Sun is much more known than the USA, lets just get R* to plop the Empire State Building on the Sun, and we'll drive around in solar cars, shall we?
/Sarcasm

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#16

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:48 PM

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 18:42)
Was there any need for the novel?
Now, EU had to get used to the US, its just plain stupid to say that US shouldnt have to get used to the UK.
Most EU citizens may have known nothing about the US, but GTA still put it in there, didnt they!?!
If US dont know about the UK, all I can say is, it's better to learn about different cultures than stick with one.

And, the Sun is much more known than the USA, lets just get R* to plop the Empire State Building on the Sun, and we'll drive around in solar cars, shall we?
/Sarcasm

Stop talking sh*t dude you didn't get used to the US you've been playing all this time because you love America. if you were so tired of playing here, you could've stopped. And stop with the damn London talk, thats not what the thread is about.

OT I'd rather a game version of a real city just like we already have.


02fishera
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#17

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:51 PM

Is it me or is it that the arguments for both for and against are becoming more stupid with every post. Over the last few days we've gone from language barriers to putting the Empire State Building and driving solar cars on the sun!

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#18

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Blissco @ Jun 2 2010, 22:42)
Was there any need for the novel?
Now, EU had to get used to the US, its just plain stupid to say that US shouldnt have to get used to the UK.
Most EU citizens may have known nothing about the US, but GTA still put it in there, didnt they!?!
If US dont know about the UK, all I can say is, it's better to learn about different cultures than stick with one.

And, the Sun is much more known than the USA, lets just get R* to plop the Empire State Building on the Sun, and we'll drive around in solar cars, shall we?
/Sarcasm

Would i get my point accross in one sentence? No.
It's not so hard to read you know, it just involves moving your eyes.

Like i said above (if you actually read it), R* want to make as much money as possible. People are always going to buy the game when it involves a city they know more about and are confortable with playing a game in (who wouldn't want to play a game in Miami? It's paradise, or at least it was last time i checked in Vice City!) it's just a coincedence that those places happen to be in the USA. It would be the exact same story if LA and Vegas etc. were in Russia, but they're not, so neither is GTA.

The EU didn't have to get used to GTA being in the USA, because most people already knew about the cities it was based on.
I can't make it any simpiler, this is the reason that GTA has never crossed the Atlantic for more than 6 years! And if i'm honest, i don't see that changing.

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#19

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (02fishera @ Jun 2 2010, 22:31)
QUOTE
London, Birmingham and Leeds


I'm pretty sure Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Belfast are bigger than Leeds.

They aren't.

London: 7m
Birmingham: 1.4m (2.87m if you include the outskirts).
Leeds: 750k

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#20

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:52 PM

Weve also been to Strawberry Shortcake drowning in a pool ^^^^

On-topic anyway... Who the hell would stop playing a game because its set in the USA? Same with the EU, Im just saying id PERFER it in the EU, or atleast a totally made up city.

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#21

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:57 PM

This is probably the worst discussion I've ever seen, the opening arguments from the OP are just plain stupid, thus it leads to a stupid discussion.

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#22

Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:58 PM

^^^ You call? smile.gif

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#23

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:10 PM Edited by SmC12, 02 June 2010 - 11:14 PM.

QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 22:57)
This is probably the worst discussion I've ever seen, the opening arguments from the OP are just plain stupid, thus it leads to a stupid discussion.

The OP points are true.

R* never, or very rarely use real brands or logos in their game. One reason is for fun and to make it unique, but the other is for legal reasons.

Burger Shot = Burger King
Cluckin' Bell = McDonald's (judging by the yellow and red theme)
Panoramic = Panasonic

Everything is changed some wayor another to save the money and time of registering these names for use in the game. That's why the disk version of EFLC had half of the radio stations taken out and Vice City FM instead, because otherwise R* would have to have bought back all those songs for use in the game. For people who downloaded EFLC, the songs were already on the disk from the origional so nothing had to be done.

So, what the OP mentioned is one of the reasons why R* use fake names for everything, including cities. The other reason being for them taking the p*ss out of other things (but that's just something they add to go along with the made up names to keep it unique).

And making up names for US based cities is easier, and suits most GTA fans throughout the world because of my previous points mentioned.
They could do it for the UK, but it wouldn't be the same.

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#24

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE (SmC12 @ Jun 2 2010, 23:10)
QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 22:57)
This is probably the worst discussion I've ever seen, the opening arguments from the OP are just plain stupid, thus it leads to a stupid discussion.

The OP points are true.

R* never, or very rarely use real brands or logos in their game. One reason is for fun and to make it unique, but the other is for legal reasons.

Burger Shot = Burger King
Cluckin' Bell = McDonald's (judging by the yellow and red theme)
Panoramic = Panasonic

Everything is changed some wayor another to save the money and time of registering these names for use in the game. That's why the disk version of EFLC had half of the radio stations taken out and Vice City FM instead, because otherwise R* would have to have bought back all those songs for use in the game. For people who downloaded EFLC, the songs were already on the disk from the origional so nothing had to be done.

So, what the OP mentioned is one of the reasons why R* use fake names for everything, including cities. The other reason being for them taking the p*ss out of other things (but that's just something they add to go along with the made up names to keep it unique).

And making up names for US based cities is easier, and suits most GTA fans throughout the world because of my previous points mentioned.

Yes, but as Blissco so nicely pointed out before, why couldn't this be done with London?

I don't know why it would be harder to make up names for cities, companies and brands outside of the US?
So, the American players wouldn't get everything, but I sure don't get all the parodies since I'm not American.

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#25

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 23:13)

Yes, but as Blissco so NICELY

Ahhh, first compliment of the day on my posts smile.gif

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#26

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:21 PM Edited by SmC12, 02 June 2010 - 11:24 PM.

QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 23:13)
QUOTE (SmC12 @ Jun 2 2010, 23:10)
QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 22:57)
This is probably the worst discussion I've ever seen, the opening arguments from the OP are just plain stupid, thus it leads to a stupid discussion.

The OP points are true.

R* never, or very rarely use real brands or logos in their game. One reason is for fun and to make it unique, but the other is for legal reasons.

Burger Shot = Burger King
Cluckin' Bell = McDonald's (judging by the yellow and red theme)
Panoramic = Panasonic

Everything is changed some wayor another to save the money and time of registering these names for use in the game. That's why the disk version of EFLC had half of the radio stations taken out and Vice City FM instead, because otherwise R* would have to have bought back all those songs for use in the game. For people who downloaded EFLC, the songs were already on the disk from the origional so nothing had to be done.

So, what the OP mentioned is one of the reasons why R* use fake names for everything, including cities. The other reason being for them taking the p*ss out of other things (but that's just something they add to go along with the made up names to keep it unique).

And making up names for US based cities is easier, and suits most GTA fans throughout the world because of my previous points mentioned.

Yes, but as Blissco so nicely pointed out before, why couldn't this be done with London?

I don't know why it would be harder to make up names for cities, companies and brands outside of the US?
So, the American players wouldn't get everything, but I sure don't get all the parodies since I'm not American.

And i also replied to that on the previous page, like the 4th post or something.

I can't explain it properly, but it's just not the same making up names for cities that are less known. I already mentioned that while London is a well known city, it's mostly only known for it's landmarks and location. Miami for example is well known because US cities are always talked about more and they feature more in TV shows and films, giving them more fame and popularity. It's just something that's been around for generations, somewhere like Vegas or LA will always be more popular and well known than London or anywhere else in the UK, i don't know why but it just is!

Dan Houser is the only person with the real answer to why they resist crossing the Atlantic. (not that i think he would tell if asked)

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#27

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:25 PM

@ SmC12 - I'm pretty sure London is more well known than Miami. I didn't no anything abput Miami until I played VC.

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#28

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:25 PM Edited by vincentmillidge, 02 June 2010 - 11:30 PM.

I think the Houser brothers and Rockstar have enough about em to make whatever game they want without really worrying about their core audience because GTA is such a well developed and known gaming institution that I doubt they would lose all that many sales if it was based in london ( the only other truly useable city outside of us) because its still gonna have what made it great a good story, cool characters and a vast satirised exspanse of warped gta reality to abuse and conquer. GTA is at its core a satirical look at western pop culture and london is the only city outside of the us that has anyway enough sway over modern pop culture and thus the only realistic choice for rockstar to use. I think the people who say they wont buy it if it was based outside of the US are only fooling themselves of course theyre gonna buy it .... ITS THE NEW GTA !!!! and if your disagreeing , your on gtaforum for f*cksake your obviously gonna buy it.

A truly made up city (ie not based on a real city/citys) i think should only be used if it was a gta based in the future, which im sure will happen and which will be amazing but for now i think gtas based upon miami, la, las vegas,san francisco new york,london, are the only properly viable options and even modern day miami isnt really up to it at a push maybe washington, detroit, chicago but unlikely... new orleans would be great but wont happen now.

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#29

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE (SmC12 @ Jun 2 2010, 23:21)
QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 23:13)
QUOTE (SmC12 @ Jun 2 2010, 23:10)
QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Jun 2 2010, 22:57)
This is probably the worst discussion I've ever seen, the opening arguments from the OP are just plain stupid, thus it leads to a stupid discussion.

The OP points are true.

R* never, or very rarely use real brands or logos in their game. One reason is for fun and to make it unique, but the other is for legal reasons.

Burger Shot = Burger King
Cluckin' Bell = McDonald's (judging by the yellow and red theme)
Panoramic = Panasonic

Everything is changed some wayor another to save the money and time of registering these names for use in the game. That's why the disk version of EFLC had half of the radio stations taken out and Vice City FM instead, because otherwise R* would have to have bought back all those songs for use in the game. For people who downloaded EFLC, the songs were already on the disk from the origional so nothing had to be done.

So, what the OP mentioned is one of the reasons why R* use fake names for everything, including cities. The other reason being for them taking the p*ss out of other things (but that's just something they add to go along with the made up names to keep it unique).

And making up names for US based cities is easier, and suits most GTA fans throughout the world because of my previous points mentioned.

Yes, but as Blissco so nicely pointed out before, why couldn't this be done with London?

I don't know why it would be harder to make up names for cities, companies and brands outside of the US?
So, the American players wouldn't get everything, but I sure don't get all the parodies since I'm not American.

And i also replied to that on the previous page, like the 4th post or something.

I can't explain it properly, but it's just not the same making up names for cities that are less known. I already mentioned that while London is a well known city, it's mostly only known for it's landmarks and location. Miami for example is well known because US cities are always talked about more and they feature more in TV shows and films, giving them more fame and popularity. It's just something that's been around for generations, somewhere like Vegas or LA will always be more popular and well known than London or anywhere else in the UK,
i don't know why but it just does!

Dan Houser is the only person with the real answer to why they resist crossing the Atlantic. (not that i think he would tell if asked)

And I quite don't get that, I'm sure London for example is way more famous than Miami, and probably similary famous as New York or L.A. I'd believe everyone know what Buckingham Palace, Big Ben, The Eiffel Tower, The Colosseum, S:t Peters Church and many more landmarks are, while I, although of course I'm only speaking for myself, could mention very few landmarks in Miami. I know about Star Island, and I've played Vice City, but I didn't recognize any special landmarks, all I recognized was that it was sunny, a lot of beaches, hotels, yachts...

And as for you SmC12, your points make somewhat sense, but the OP:s point is that a GTA game couldn't be set outside of America and to argue for this he uses the whole making up names and real/fake cities thing, which is just ridiculous as an argument for his point.

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#30

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:31 PM

I think GTA needs to have it's city as a parody of somewhere real. That's how GTA works, they poke fun etc... at the stereotypes of a certain time and place. GTA Vice City being one of the best examples.

Keeping it in the US is probably the best idea for the franchise because IMO its more compatible for everyone that way. Bear with me, basically I reckon both UK and European people 'get' the US setting more than US people would 'get' a UK or European setting. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone in the US but generally speaking.

That said, the city they choose in the US needs to have a very specific flavour to it that the majority of gamers will understand and appreciate. People will always feel that their own city is the best option but let's be honest, GTA: Colorado for example wouldn't hit the mark for many of us, even though I'm sure R* would do a bang up job.

R* need a unique time period and style to draw upon and assuming that they won't re-do one of the previous GTAs it's leaving them less and less options. There are still good ones out there though - 1970s Motown or perhaps the late 1960s and all the flower power hippie stuff obviously. Without this type of focus (a real city/time period) GTA would be missing something IMO.




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