Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

[IV] Weapon Sounds Ultimate

40 replies to this topic
Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#1

Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:23 PM Edited by zerofreeze, 30 December 2009 - 11:46 PM.

Credits to Vilavek for the Ivaud-Editor

And Quechus13



Fraps made it sound slightly different but ingame its really nice

Here is my attempt of making a weapon sound mod

L4D & CS:S Weapon Sounds Its a mix

Just try it out and hear the awesome sounds biggrin.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#2

Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:40 PM

Wow, that's extremely cool! Have you already uploaded it?

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#3

Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 15:40)
Wow, that's extremely cool! Have you already uploaded it?

Yeah its waiting for approval biggrin.gif

..GhosT
  • ..GhosT

    GTAForums Veteran

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2009
  • None

#4

Posted 30 December 2009 - 04:38 PM

You stole my idea for the Grenade Launcher.
Cheap.

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#5

Posted 30 December 2009 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE (KingBulleT. 8747 @ Dec 30 2009, 16:38)
You stole my idea for the Grenade Launcher.
Cheap.

Grenade Launcher how could that be your idea omg i took it from a youtube video and equalized it with a higher pitch tone and made it so small as possible sarcasm.gif

..GhosT
  • ..GhosT

    GTAForums Veteran

  • Members
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2009
  • None

#6

Posted 30 December 2009 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 17:40)
QUOTE (KingBulleT. 8747 @ Dec 30 2009, 16:38)
You stole my idea for the Grenade Launcher.
Cheap.

Grenade Launcher how could that be your idea omg i took it from a youtube video and equalized it with a higher pitch tone and made it so small as possible sarcasm.gif

Uhrm, the whole Idea of this mod camed from my Sound mod, and youve got the grenade launcher IDEA (!) from me too.

Just cheap lol, and my grenade launcher sound even sounds nicer.

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#7

Posted 30 December 2009 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE (KingBulleT. 8747 @ Dec 30 2009, 16:41)
QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 17:40)
QUOTE (KingBulleT. 8747 @ Dec 30 2009, 16:38)
You stole my idea for the Grenade Launcher.
Cheap.

Grenade Launcher how could that be your idea omg i took it from a youtube video and equalized it with a higher pitch tone and made it so small as possible sarcasm.gif

Uhrm, the whole Idea of this mod camed from my Sound mod, and youve got the grenade launcher IDEA (!) from me too.

Just cheap lol, and my grenade launcher sound even sounds nicer.

Yeah right you do know i was already searching for the weapon sounds when your topic didn't even exist and i was almost done with my sound mod but you beat me too it. But than i thought my weapon sounds they are not the same, So i thought i will release it and now you are telling me that im stealing thats just weak of you icon13.gif

vans123
  • vans123

    Thompson 1928

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Jul 2008

#8

Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:15 PM

wow, KingBullet..
every person can just think about the same thing!Just couse you made a grenade launcher sound first, that doesnt mean 1000 more guys can do it!The bad part begins when any of those guys started to use your sound...but well i dont see he has used your sound...personally his sound is a lil better...it sounds like a real grenade launcher...yours sound more like a kindergarden grenade launcher xD

anyway, awsome mod!

GTAdedan
  • GTAdedan

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 09 Oct 2006

#9

Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:19 PM

You must have taken the idea from all those other modder that did the same thing for GTA3/VC/SA sarcasm.gif

It sounds really nice I'll give it a go when it's released icon14.gif

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#10

Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:22 PM

QUOTE (GTAdedan @ Dec 30 2009, 17:19)
You must have taken the idea from all those other modder that did the same thing for GTA3/VC/SA sarcasm.gif

It sounds really nice I'll give it a go when it's released icon14.gif

Thanx alot colgate.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#11

Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:36 PM

BTW The Desert Eagle sound is just like the TBoGT UZI sound.

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#12

Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 17:36)
BTW The Desert Eagle sound is just like the TBoGT UZI sound.

Hmm weird because i got the sound from CS:S and its from a Desert Eagle wow.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#13

Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:09 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 17:42)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 17:36)
BTW The Desert Eagle sound is just like the TBoGT UZI sound.

Hmm weird because i got the sound from CS:S and its from a Desert Eagle wow.gif

I know, but it just sounds a lot like the UZI from TBoGT. So you can help the TBoGT for PC Mod guys with this. wink.gif

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#14

Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:19 PM Edited by zerofreeze, 30 December 2009 - 06:22 PM.

QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 18:09)
QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 17:42)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 17:36)
BTW The Desert Eagle sound is just like the TBoGT UZI sound.

Hmm weird because i got the sound from CS:S and its from a Desert Eagle wow.gif

I know, but it just sounds a lot like the UZI from TBoGT. So you can help the TBoGT for PC Mod guys with this. wink.gif

I actually have the whole Soundpack of TBOGT ready tounge.gif

AA12
.44 mag
p90
Grenade Launcher

All converted to 44100 Khz 16 bits

Oh yeah i got all the Electro Choc music of TBOGT too cool.gif

NTAuthority
  • NTAuthority

    member_title

  • Feroci Racing
  • Joined: 09 Sep 2008
  • European-Union
  • Most Knowledgeable [Technology] 2013
    Best Map 2013 "ViceCityStories PC Edition"

#15

Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 19:19)
I actually have the whole Soundpack of TBOGT ready tounge.gif
All converted to 44100 Khz 16 bits

Oh yeah i got all the Electro Choc music of TBOGT too cool.gif

A bit offtopic, but how? Recorded them, or do you have the (not meant to be that widespread tounge.gif ) SparkIV modified version?

As far as this topic goes, nice sounds! By the way, where did you get the grenade launcher? I want one too! tounge.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#16

Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:51 PM

QUOTE (NTAuthority @ Dec 30 2009, 18:50)
QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 19:19)
I actually have the whole Soundpack of TBOGT ready  tounge.gif
All converted to 44100 Khz 16 bits

Oh yeah i got all the Electro Choc music of TBOGT too  cool.gif

A bit offtopic, but how? Recorded them, or do you have the (not meant to be that widespread tounge.gif ) SparkIV modified version?

As far as this topic goes, nice sounds! By the way, where did you get the grenade launcher? I want one too! tounge.gif

I think it's quechus13's grenade launcher.

vans123
  • vans123

    Thompson 1928

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Jul 2008

#17

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:25 PM

well getting GTA IV BOGT Audio is easy

When you buy BOGT for xbox360 CD version, you will have to screw it up, so i recomend buying a cheap copy, put inside the PC, and Explore the CD(not open,explore) and it will send you to a part of the CD where All storyLine Videos and Audios are located, they are in a kinda sound file something rare but they are still explorable, so then go and do the try, or maybe this guy did it with the other way....Open the EFLC Guide Book, whatched for Electro-Shock area and searched every new soundtrack in youtube or by Ares and then downloaded em tounge.gif

Anyway, im just saying is pretty easy to Rip sounds fro Bogt and TLAD tounge.gif
anyway, this mod is fking awsome!!!I cant wait for release

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#18

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE (vans123 @ Dec 30 2009, 19:25)
well getting GTA IV BOGT Audio is easy

When you buy BOGT for xbox360 CD version, you will have to screw it up, so i recomend buying a cheap copy, put inside the PC, and Explore the CD(not open,explore) and it will send you to a part of the CD where All storyLine Videos and Audios are located, they are in a kinda sound file something rare but they are still explorable, so then go and do the try, or maybe this guy did it with the other way....Open the EFLC Guide Book, whatched for Electro-Shock area and searched every new soundtrack in youtube or by Ares and then downloaded em tounge.gif

Anyway, im just saying is pretty easy to Rip sounds fro Bogt and TLAD tounge.gif
anyway, this mod is fking awsome!!!I cant wait for release

Lol I just downloaded all the radio sounds from youtube converted them to .wav and now we have to wait for v1.2 happy.gif

The only radio sound i couldn't find was Crookers Bad Men but ive read somewhere thats actually not going to be released only on the album whatsthat.gif

topeira
  • topeira

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2005

#19

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:35 PM

the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#20

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#21

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:42 PM

QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

Yeah i really didn't get your point confused.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#22

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 19:42)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

Yeah i really didn't get your point confused.gif

Okay, let's say you have an original .ivaud, and a modified .ivaud with an MP5, M4, and Rocket Launcher sound. And you only want the MP5 sound. Then you open the modified .ivaud, and export the MP5 sound. Then you open your original .ivaud, and import the MP5 sound you just exported.

Got it?

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#23

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:50 PM

QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:49)
QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 19:42)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

Yeah i really didn't get your point confused.gif

Okay, let's say you have an original .ivaud, and a modified .ivaud with an MP5, M4, and Rocket Launcher sound. And you only want the MP5 sound. Then you open the modified .ivaud, and export the MP5 sound. Then you open your original .ivaud, and import the MP5 sound.

Got it?

What i meant was i didn't know what kopeira was saying biggrin.gif

EduardKoeleJuck
  • EduardKoeleJuck

    Gangsta

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2008

#24

Posted 30 December 2009 - 07:52 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 19:50)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:49)
QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 19:42)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

Yeah i really didn't get your point confused.gif

Okay, let's say you have an original .ivaud, and a modified .ivaud with an MP5, M4, and Rocket Launcher sound. And you only want the MP5 sound. Then you open the modified .ivaud, and export the MP5 sound. Then you open your original .ivaud, and import the MP5 sound.

Got it?

What i meant was i didn't know what kopeira was saying biggrin.gif

L0L, okay biggrin.gif
I spent like 10 minutes figuring out how to explain it clearly tounge2.gif

topeira
  • topeira

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2005

#25

Posted 30 December 2009 - 08:01 PM Edited by topeira, 30 December 2009 - 09:14 PM.

QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

im not savee enough with these softwares but i will try.

however we need to know which sounds WITHIN the IVaud file are the sounds we want. its hard to tell the sounds we need from the 395 sounds inside the IVaud file...
sadly there is no sound calledf "mp5" within the IVaud file so its a matter of guessing. and also there are a lot of gunfire sounds that sound the same and persoanlly i dont know which to replace and which to leave and what to do with most of them...

if u could supply the WAVs themselves than THAT would help the community a lot.
of course we would need to know which sounds to overwrite i guess... which brings me back to the latest point i stated... tounge.gif

Zer0w5
  • Zer0w5

    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

  • Members
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2008
  • None

#26

Posted 30 December 2009 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 20:01)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

im not savee enough with these softwares but i will try.

however we need to know which sounds WITHIN the IVaud file are the sounds we want. its hard to tell the sounds we need from the 395 sounds inside the IVaud file...
sadly there is no sound calledf "mp5" within the IVaud file so its a matter of guessing. and also there are a lot of gunfire sounds that sound the same and persoanlly i dont know which to replace and which to leave and what to do with most of them...

if u could supply the WAVs themselves than THAT would help the community a lot.
of course we would need to know which sounds to overwrite i guess... which brings me back to the latest point i stated... tounge.gif

Thats why Vilavek is working on v1.2 in that version the filenames can be seen biggrin.gif

topeira
  • topeira

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2005

#27

Posted 07 January 2010 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 23:09)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 20:01)
QUOTE (EduardKoeleJuck @ Dec 30 2009, 19:41)
QUOTE (topeira @ Dec 30 2009, 19:35)
the problem with a sound mod like this is that if u dont have the grenade launcher cuz u chose to stick to the normal shotgun than u get a shotgun with a weird GL sound.

that's the issue with both sound mods - it forces ALL their sounds on you without the ability to chose which u want to import and they also include sounds from weapons that dont really exist in stock GTAIV.

we need someone to create an easy to use tool that can unpack 2 layers of files (RPF and IVaud), import a particular weapon sound and repack it back to original rpf file.... tounge.gif

until then - we are at the mercy of a lucky combination of sounds that we should like them all... andd what are the odds tounge.gif

What are you talking about? You can just import the .wavs. If you have an .ivaud, you can just export the sounds with SparkIV, and import them again.

im not savee enough with these softwares but i will try.

however we need to know which sounds WITHIN the IVaud file are the sounds we want. its hard to tell the sounds we need from the 395 sounds inside the IVaud file...
sadly there is no sound calledf "mp5" within the IVaud file so its a matter of guessing. and also there are a lot of gunfire sounds that sound the same and persoanlly i dont know which to replace and which to leave and what to do with most of them...

if u could supply the WAVs themselves than THAT would help the community a lot.
of course we would need to know which sounds to overwrite i guess... which brings me back to the latest point i stated... tounge.gif

Thats why Vilavek is working on v1.2 in that version the filenames can be seen biggrin.gif

ok. great. maybe then it will be possible. i'd like to see any of you, smart-panties try to import only the sounds you want with nearly 400 sounds without their names in it. smile.gif

kimr120
  • kimr120

    Hustler

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 May 2008

#28

Posted 07 January 2010 - 03:48 PM

QUOTE (zerofreeze @ Dec 30 2009, 17:23)
Credits to Vilavek for the Ivaud-Editor

And Quechus13



Fraps made it sound slightly different but ingame its really nice

Here is my attempt of making a weapon sound mod

L4D & CS:S Weapon Sounds Its a mix

Just try it out and hear the awesome sounds biggrin.gif

ehum! it's not allowed to upload mods on gtaforums that uses other game-content

topeira
  • topeira

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2005

#29

Posted 07 January 2010 - 04:17 PM

is there any chance that someone can tell us which PCM sounds belong to which weapon so we can more easily mix and match our sounds?
i love the new SMG, pistol, M4 and sniper sounds but not the rest. dont know which PCMs to replace with the older sounds.

anyone help?

TriXigT
  • TriXigT

    3DFANATIC

  • Members
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2009

#30

Posted 07 January 2010 - 05:19 PM Edited by TriXigT, 07 January 2010 - 06:12 PM.

QUOTE (topeira @ Jan 7 2010, 15:42)
ok. great. maybe then it will be possible. i'd like to see any of you, smart-panties try to import only the sounds you want with nearly 400 sounds without their names in it. smile.gif

Since I've replaced every weaponsound with one of my own in about thirty min's it is much more than possible - The sounds are somewhat arranged in the file...




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users