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The Firearm Topic

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Ziggy455
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#2161

Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:52 PM Edited by Ziggy455, 15 March 2013 - 08:02 PM.

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Friday, Mar 15 2013, 19:48)
2:50-4:06

How is a gun (M16) that jams frequently and is hard to field-strip better than a gun (AK-47) that scarcely jams and is easy to field-strip?

That's down to opinion and experience really. AK-47s are EXTREMELY easy to strip as opposed to M16s. I've never used them before, but to be honest, both are simple, yet-effective for their purpose, however I'm starting to feel that the M16 is obsolete and the only reason it's still around and in service is due to it's cheap manufacturing. I'd pick an AK over an M16 just based on caliber size.

And I noticed those tests were unfair. The AK is much more reliable! They just removed the muzzle break.

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#2162

Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:04 PM

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Friday, Mar 15 2013, 19:48)
How is a gun (M16) that jams frequently and is hard to field-strip better than a gun (AK-47) that scarcely jams and is easy to field-strip?

jams frequently? Your basis for this is? I was under the impression that barrel liners, and getting out of the jungle muck fixed that.

Patriotic ferver answers the Ak47 vs any U.S. weapon.

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#2163

Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Friday, Mar 15 2013, 20:04)
QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Friday, Mar 15 2013, 19:48)
How is a gun (M16) that jams frequently and is hard to field-strip better than a gun (AK-47) that scarcely jams and is easy to field-strip?

jams frequently? Your basis for this is? I was under the impression that barrel liners, and getting out of the jungle muck fixed that.

Patriotic ferver answers the Ak47 vs any U.S. weapon.

I take it you'd prefer the M16 over a Kalashnikov any day?

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#2164

Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

Side Arms and Trench sweepers. I'm comfortable with S&W m39, PPK, and 12 gauge with #1 buck. Most areas I've been in are would be ranges less than 10 meters. So medium and long range weapons aren't necessary, for me.

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#2165

Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:35 PM

Short range bursters. Hmm. I'd never want to get too close and personal with them. I think the range of an AK-47 is still quite horrific without a muzzle brake. Not going to lie, I like the S&W M39, it's one of the best sidearms I've had the privilege of trying.

PPK, ugh, too small for me. If I had my own choice I'd stick with the Glock .17 purely on magazine capacity, AK for obvious reasons, and HOWA M1500 - They're the only damn things I've ever actually had any sort of basic experience with. Although who the hell needs an instruction manual for an AK? What'd you do for a living to be given a S&W M39? Are you a Cop?

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#2166

Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:33 PM

Those of you living in a gun control sanctioned nation, is gun related crime scarce?

Ziggy455
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#2167

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:10 AM

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Friday, Mar 15 2013, 23:33)
Those of you living in a gun control sanctioned nation, is gun related crime scarce?

In the UK, knife crime is higher than gun crime.

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#2168

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

I read somewhere that sword crime is rife in Asian countries.

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#2169

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 00:26)
I read somewhere that sword crime is rife in Asian countries.

Asian culture has a rich history of swords in their culture, it was only a matter of time before that culture turns sour and once elegant items, are now violent.

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#2170

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:59 AM

I heard that it is straight-razors in Glasgow and Liverpool... ?

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#2171

Posted 16 March 2013 - 01:42 AM

QUOTE (lil weasel @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 00:59)
I heard that it is straight-razors in Glasgow and Liverpool... ?

I wouldn't know. All I do know is there's plenty of gun and knife crime in the UK regardless of it's crackdown on firearms.

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#2172

Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:29 AM

0:49-0:53 & 1:14-1:18

The narrator mentions three guns; two of which (HK-G3 & AK-47) he says are "gas operated". In this context, what does that imply? There is no noticeable liquid gas cartridge on the firearms. Was he referencing atmospheric gases? How can such gases fuel a gun?

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#2173

Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:01 AM

Gas-operation means when a gun is fired, gas comes from the cartridge and fires pressures which is used to power the mechanism that allows autoloading. Simply-put; the AK-47 is gas-operated. The pressure of the cartridge allows for the auto-load of the next round. I thought gas-propellant was where an actual gas tank is used? I've only ever seen gas cartridges used in pellet guns and certain BB guns. dozingoff.gif

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#2174

Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:52 AM Edited by SagaciousKJB, 17 March 2013 - 05:09 AM.

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 20:01)
Gas-operation means when a gun is fired, gas comes from the cartridge and fires pressures which is used to power the mechanism that allows autoloading. Simply-put; the AK-47 is gas-operated. The pressure of the cartridge allows for the auto-load of the next round. I thought gas-propellant was where an actual gas tank is used? I've only ever seen gas cartridges used in pellet guns and certain BB guns.  dozingoff.gif

To elaborate...

There is a gas-return tube which allows the exploding and burning gases from a discharged round to travel back through tube to the bolt, pushing it backward and reloading another round. This is in contrast to earlier types of automatic weapons that use the recoiling pressure of the cartridge itself to cycle.

Here, just read this page... http://science.howst...achine-gun6.htm and http://science.howst...achine-gun7.htm

They have some dandy interactive diagrams to show you how it works.


Since we're on the subject, what's the point of gas blow back guns versus using the blow-back of the cartridge itself? I feel like it has something to do with the bolt being able to remain locked to the barrel in the gas operated system, but don't see how this makes much of a difference. Would a regular blow-back system just allow too much pressure to escape or something? My brain tells me, "No, all the pressure would still be heading down the barrel before the cartridge leaves the chamber," but there's got to be a reason why everyone started adopting a gas-operated system.


Oh, and as for the subject of BB guns... They're the only ones that really use CO2 cartridges. A lot of them also can fire pellets, but the problem with CO2 cartridges is that they're not very consistent with how much pressure they release, and will continually release less and less over time. So they're not really suitable for any serious air rifle marksmanship.

Now, "pellet guns" which use 8 grain pellets that are made of soft lead typically have rifled barrels and are made to be much more accurate than a BB gun. BBs suffer from the old musket and round-ball problem, where the ball bounces down the tube and leaves in a direction every time. For a quality air rifle that is accurate, things like spring-driven air pistons or pneumatic pump-types are better. The top-notch you can get though is a "PCP" or pre-charged pneumatic, which basically uses a cannister of air that you pump up to a couple thousand PSI, and will release the same amount of pressure with every shot.

Also while BB and pellet guns are often regarded as "kid's toys" your higher-end air rifles are actually quite capable at taking small game, and there are even "big bore" air rifles that can kill hogs and deer. In fact, the Lewis and Clark expedition had a compliment of Girandoni air rifles that could fire a .46 caliber round ball through a 1" pine board at 100 yards. Or in other words it had roughly the same balistic energy as a .45 ACP. A lot of historians believe that compared to the modern muzzle-loaders of the day, that the rate of fire that this air rifle was capable of, and the quiet operation is what kept some hostile natives from attacking the expedition parties. In fact there was even an incident where a chief wanted to see just how many of the rifles they had with them, and Lewis refused.

http://en.wikipedia....ndoni_Air_Rifle

(Watch this, it's awesome)



And just to show you I'm not fibbing on air rifles that can kill hogs and deer...

http://www.pyramydai...ight_Hunter/394
http://www.pyramydai..._Air_Rifle/2399

Ziggy455
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#2175

Posted 17 March 2013 - 05:08 AM Edited by Ziggy455, 17 March 2013 - 05:13 AM.

QUOTE (SagaciousKJB @ Sunday, Mar 17 2013, 04:52)
QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 20:01)
Gas-operation means when a gun is fired, gas comes from the cartridge and fires pressures which is used to power the mechanism that allows autoloading. Simply-put; the AK-47 is gas-operated. The pressure of the cartridge allows for the auto-load of the next round. I thought gas-propellant was where an actual gas tank is used? I've only ever seen gas cartridges used in pellet guns and certain BB guns.  dozingoff.gif

To elaborate...

There is a gas-return tube which allows the exploding and burning gases from a discharged round to travel back through tube to the bolt, pushing it backward and reloading another round. This is in contrast to earlier types of automatic weapons that use the recoiling pressure of the cartridge itself to cycle.

Here, just read this page... http://science.howst...achine-gun6.htm and http://science.howst...achine-gun7.htm

They have some dandy interactive diagrams to show you how it works.


Since we're on the subject, what's the point of gas blow back guns versus using the blow-back of the cartridge itself? I feel like it has something to do with the bolt being able to remain locked to the barrel in the gas operated system, but don't see how this makes much of a difference. Would a regular blow-back system just allow too much pressure to escape or something? My brain tells me, "No, all the pressure would still be heading down the barrel before the cartridge leaves the chamber," but there's got to be a reason why everyone started adopting a gas-operated system.

QUOTE
there's got to be a reason why everyone started adopting a gas-operated system.


Thankyou for the elaboration; your way made more sense. I'm too tired to go into a long explanatory post tonight.

And on your question: because it's an ingenious way of distributing excessive power without letting it go to waste. I think it's an extremely clever mechanism. However I don't think there's much of difference with the two systems, but perhaps it is based on different specifications of weapons. I know that the pressure from a cartridge is more powerful on discharge than say a gas-powered gun. I'm not sure if this is down to just pressure or both heat and pressure. I've never seen a real gun that has gas blow-back. I'm not a professional, are there such guns?

QUOTE
Also while BB and pellet guns are often regarded as "kid's toys" your higher-end air rifles are actually quite capable at taking small game, and there are even "big bore"


I used to go out hunting using pellet-rifles. They can do a small amount of damage to rabbits and foxes. Each rifle had to be manually loaded for each shot. My step-brother used to bring along a gas-powered pellet pistol, although the aim and pressure was so awful, each shot would veer to the left. I stuck to rifles, the accuracy is much better; although I never liked the constant manual reload.

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#2176

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

Why are silencers made for most guns (Pistols, Rifles, Uzis) but not Shotguns?

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#2177

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:34 PM

We live in a world with google you know.

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#2178

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

Google is riddled with spam, you know. I did, however, Google my question prior to posting but to no avail.

Behold; see for yourself: https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-a

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#2179

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

https://www.google.c...ilenced shotgun

First link and most of the others contain your answer.

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#2180

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:54 PM Edited by GTASAddict, 19 March 2013 - 12:57 PM.

I don't understand why my search was more precise than yours, but yet yours brought better results. That's why I posted in this topic; because my Google search got me nowhere.

It does baffle me how you have to basically sign away many rights to acquire a silencer. Who wants damaged hearing? Earmuffs are very uncomfortable.

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#2181

Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Tuesday, Mar 19 2013, 07:54)
Who wants damaged hearing? Earmuffs are very uncomfortable.

Silencers don't exist. Suppressors on the other hand do. There is no way to make a gun silent, plus a suppressor can still hurt your ears. And you get use to the earmuffs.

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#2182

Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

Plus, the bushings (where the projectile passes through) wear down quickly. So the multiple shot passing through will tear the bushings apart. And, misalignment of the exit port may cause the suppressor to 'explode'.

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#2183

Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

Criminals don't seem to favor silencers/suppressors for some reason. There must be a good reason why.

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#2184

Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:50 AM Edited by fatal1ty619, 21 March 2013 - 11:16 AM.

They are hella expensive. Thats why. Suppressors go from anywhere from $250-1000, depending on the gun it was made for. Criminals can easily get a one use only cheap ass pistol from $50-100 on the street, but suppressors aren't as easy/cheap to come by, unless the criminal made one himself, which would probably just blow up in his face.

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#2185

Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:13 PM Edited by shiva s, 21 March 2013 - 12:17 PM.

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Thursday, Mar 21 2013, 10:41)
Criminals don't seem to favor silencers/suppressors for some reason. There must be a good reason why.

Because, they hate killing rednecked, primary school kids silently. They are such an attention seeking whores.

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#2186

Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:21 PM Edited by lil weasel, 21 March 2013 - 12:23 PM.

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Thursday, Mar 21 2013, 10:41)
Criminals don't seem to favor silencers/suppressors for some reason. There must be a good reason why.

Since they are clumsy, huge (not like in the movies), only work for a limited time, are subject to the environment, and need to finely machined, it isn't worth the trouble.
Oh, almost forgot many are innacurate beyond three metres.

They work best in the Movies where the noise can be dubbed, and the accuracy simulated.

Yes there are military grade rifle suppressors used by government snipers in limited conditions.

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#2187

Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

I'm surprised this topic hasn't tempted a "gun control" troll yet.

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#2188

Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (GTASAddict @ Saturday, Mar 23 2013, 14:07)
I'm surprised this topic hasn't tempted a "gun control" troll yet.

It has, many-a-time. But the fact that a) it's in the General Chat section, which tends to keep the morons out; and b) most of the people who post frequently in here are pretty savy- tends to keep it all in check.

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#2189

Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:50 PM

Also, if you want to use a suppressor to the best of its abilities, then you'll want to use subsonic ammo. The problem with subsonic ammunition is that it's almost always significantly less lethal than hotter loads of the same cartridge. Wounding somebody and having them scream in agony (probably because you didn't use hot enough rounds) really isn't that good for stealth.

So, a suppressor is really best for firearms that are chambered in rounds that are already subsonic by standard (like the .45 ACP).

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#2190

Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

Another factor to be considered is that Sub-Sonic ammo might require the firearm to be tuned for it.
Semi-Automatic actions might not work properly if the chamber pressures aren't enough to operate the action.




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