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The Possible Trinity..

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Money Over Bullshit
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#61

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:37 AM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 03 November 2009 - 07:35 PM.

If anybody else wants to Post a List Feel free. If I notice anything useful that I haven't put in my list I'll add it.

EDIT: Already I've noticed that Practice Swing comes before Chinese Takeout and I've made changes accordingly. I'm suprised nobody noticed that.

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#62

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:33 PM

Packie's missions are only open after have a heart

Money Over Bullshit
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#63

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Brevich @ Nov 3 2009, 19:33)
Packie's missions are only open after have a heart

And you're 100% sure of that?

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#64

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 19:36)
QUOTE (Brevich @ Nov 3 2009, 19:33)
Packie's missions are only open after have a heart

And you're 100% sure of that?

Yes, everytime Im in this part of the storyline after I do Have a heart Packie calls me to start his missions

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#65

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (Brevich @ Nov 3 2009, 13:37)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 19:36)
QUOTE (Brevich @ Nov 3 2009, 19:33)
Packie's missions are only open after have a heart

And you're 100% sure of that?

Yes, everytime Im in this part of the storyline after I do Have a heart Packie calls me to start his missions

For the last time...

You have to finish "Have a Heart" and "Call and Collect" in order to do Packie's missions.

Money Over Bullshit
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#66

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (Brevich @ Nov 3 2009, 19:37)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 19:36)
QUOTE (Brevich @ Nov 3 2009, 19:33)
Packie's missions are only open after have a heart

And you're 100% sure of that?

Yes, everytime Im in this part of the storyline after I do Have a heart Packie calls me to start his missions

I thought that was the case myself until somebody said only Call and Collect needs to be done before Packie's Missions. An easy solution to the problem would be to move all of the missions Niko does for Elizabeta up so they take place after The Puerto Rican Connection.

The only problem with this is that You get two phonecalls after Have a Heart - one from Elizabeta herself saying the cops are about to take her down and another one shortly after saying that she has been arrested.. From Jacob I think. Moving those missions up on the list would also create an incredible gap between Have a Heart when she tells Niko she's about to be taken down and Shifting Weight when she breaks the news Johnny.

General Goose
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#67

Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:09 PM

People are saying that the Deal ending is canon because Bulgarin has a large amount of heroin. I see it may be a hint, but I do not see it as a confirmation. He may have easily obtained it from another source.

What do y'all think? Any CONCRETE proof?

Money Over Bullshit
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#68

Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:16 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 03 November 2009 - 08:23 PM.

QUOTE (General Goose @ Nov 3 2009, 20:09)
People are saying that the Deal ending is canon because Bulgarin has a large amount of heroin. I see it may be a hint, but I do not see it as a confirmation. He may have easily obtained it from another source.

What do y'all think? Any CONCRETE proof?

I've posted my take on that in This Topic. (In The Heroin section)

In short it doesn't really prove anything since he could've either taken the heroin from Dimitri or the Pegorino's as the comment "Now Rascalov is dead we have sole claim to the junk" makes sense in both instances as They wouldn't have gotten the Heroin from the Pegorinos if their original buyer (Dimitri) hadn't of been killed and likewise if Dimitri hadn't of been killed they wouldn't of gotten his heroin (that he stole from the Pegorinos).

liquidus119
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#69

Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:21 PM Edited by liquidus119, 03 November 2009 - 09:08 PM.

No, them having Dimitri's heroin doesn't prove anything as Dimitri has a large stock pile of heroin during A Dish Served Cold (it's what he is moving onto/off of the Platypus)

In both missions, Dimitri has a large stock pile of heroin, so it doesn't really prove anything.

And I looked in the GTAIV strategy guide for confirmation that you cannot start Packie's missions until Have a Heart is completed.

EDIT: And disregard all this other crap I had about the amount of time between phone calls, I just realized it doesn't work as you NEED to do Three Leaf Clover and you most likely get the phone call BEFORE TLC...

God, Rockstar really ****ed this up!

Money Over Bullshit
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#70

Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:26 PM

I suppose when it comes down to it, being able to actually play the story the way I have it in the list is far more important than the dialogue in the games. With that said even though it goes against the grain I'm gonna try and make the list work with Johnny and Niko's missions for Elizabeta being totally seperate.

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#71

Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:35 PM

Loving this thread. Can't wait until all the kinks are worked out so I can play again.

liquidus119
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#72

Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:51 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 20:26)
I suppose when it comes down to it, being able to actually play the story the way I have it in the list is far more important than the dialogue in the games. With that said even though it goes against the grain I'm gonna try and make the list work with Johnny and Niko's missions for Elizabeta being totally seperate.

I know what you mean, I liked the idea of all of Elizabeta's missions being connected and happening the same a whole lot. It seems really strange that she would tell Niko to back off but then pull Johnny in to help out. I can see it being possible, considering that all of the coke that Niko got from The Snow Storm was lost and that he was a friend of Mallories, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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#73

Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:34 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 04 November 2009 - 01:06 PM.

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 20:51)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 20:26)
I suppose when it comes down to it, being able to actually play the story the way I have it in the list is far more important than the dialogue in the games. With that said even though it goes against the grain I'm gonna try and make the list work with Johnny and Niko's missions for Elizabeta being totally seperate.

I know what you mean, I liked the idea of all of Elizabeta's missions being connected and happening the same a whole lot. It seems really strange that she would tell Niko to back off but then pull Johnny in to help out. I can see it being possible, considering that all of the coke that Niko got from The Snow Storm was lost and that he was a friend of Mallories, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

In my view the flow of the story before TBOGT Came out was great and everything linked in really well. I think it's pretty obvious that Rockstar had no consideration for the sequence of events they had put in place as it's simple just the careless placing of a mission in The Ballad that throws the whole thing off in order to have another little crossover appear in the story.

As awkward as it is though that is the way things are and we're just gonna have to go with it. I had a go at rearranging the list so it flows and interweaves as well as it did and I've updated my list on page 1.

liquidus119
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#74

Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:34 PM Edited by liquidus119, 03 November 2009 - 09:38 PM.

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 10:37)
If anybody else wants to Post a List Feel free. If I notice anything useful that I haven't put in my list I'll add it.

EDIT: Already I've noticed that Practice Swing comes before Chinese Takeout and I've made changes accordingly. I'm suprised nobody noticed that.

How does Practice Swing come before Chinese Takeout? I'm pretty sure that both missions have different sets of dialogue for whichever order you choose to do them (seeing as how my first playthrough I did Practice Swing first, and the second playthrough I did Chinese Takeout, and I noticed that on my second playthrough Luis talked about breaking Rocco's legs for setting them up for an ambush which wasn't present in the first playthrough)

And the only problems I have with your list are the listings for It's War and Party's Over, but I guess that's just a preference thing...

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#75

Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:46 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 03 November 2009 - 09:57 PM.

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 21:34)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 10:37)
If anybody else wants to Post a List Feel free. If I notice anything useful that I haven't put in my list I'll add it.

EDIT: Already I've noticed that Practice Swing comes before Chinese Takeout and I've made changes accordingly. I'm suprised nobody noticed that.

How does Practice Swing come before Chinese Takeout? I'm pretty sure that both missions have different sets of dialogue for whichever order you choose to do them (seeing as how my first playthrough I did Practice Swing first, and the second playthrough I did Chinese Takeout, and I noticed that on my second playthrough Luis talked about breaking Rocco's legs for setting them up for an ambush which wasn't present in the first playthrough)

And the only problems I have with your list are the listings for It's War and Party's Over, but I guess that's just a preference thing...

Yeah that's weird because I could've sworn that too. But Both Missions are for Gay Tony so I think that's what causes the confusion. Maybe it depends on the Time of day though seeing as Tony gives missions from two locations (his house and the club).

And What's wrong with those mission placings?

liquidus119
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#76

Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 21:46)
Yeah that's weird because I could've sworn that too. But Both Missions are for Gay Tony so I think that's what causes the confusion. Maybe it depends on the Time of day though seeing as Tony gives missions from two locations.

And What's wrong with those mission placings?

That is what it is. On my second playthrough, I did Momma's Boy before I did Pratice Swing. Practice Swing is triggered from his apartment during the day time, and Chinese Takeout can only be done at night from the club.

I don't think either one HAS to be done before the other one, they are set up so they can be done in whichever order you wish. Which pretty much means that it's listing on the list shouldn't really matter either.

And the problem I have with the placement of the missions is that I feel that It's War should take place closer to Angels in America, considering that Angels happens right before No Love Lost and I feel that The Lost wouldn't take a very long time to find out that Jason was killed.

And I feel that Party's Over should take place right before Departure Time, as Gay Tony claims he is going to flee the city at the end of Party's Over, and the opening of Departure Time shows him packing his bags. It just seems illogical that he would wait such a long time to flee the city when Bulgarin had just sent an army to kill him.

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#77

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:08 PM

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 21:56)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 21:46)
Yeah that's weird because I could've sworn that too. But Both Missions are for Gay Tony so I think that's what causes the confusion. Maybe it depends on the Time of day though seeing as Tony gives missions from two locations.

And What's wrong with those mission placings?

That is what it is. On my second playthrough, I did Momma's Boy before I did Pratice Swing. Practice Swing is triggered from his apartment during the day time, and Chinese Takeout can only be done at night from the club.

I don't think either one HAS to be done before the other one, they are set up so they can be done in whichever order you wish. Which pretty much means that it's listing on the list shouldn't really matter either.

And the problem I have with the placement of the missions is that I feel that It's War should take place closer to Angels in America, considering that Angels happens right before No Love Lost and I feel that The Lost wouldn't take a very long time to find out that Jason was killed.

And I feel that Party's Over should take place right before Departure Time, as Gay Tony claims he is going to flee the city at the end of Party's Over, and the opening of Departure Time shows him packing his bags. It just seems illogical that he would wait such a long time to flee the city when Bulgarin had just sent an army to kill him.

It's War is locked in Time by Roman's Sorrow as they happen at the same time. Angels in America can happen anytime between Clean and Serene and It's War though as can LCC and BCD.

And it's a bit of a catch 22 with Party's over as to me it seems equally Illogical that Rocco would wait that long to have a man killed that he's been dying to see the back of since he met him. Obviously when your playing the game you can play it whatever way you want but I want to put the missions that aren't linked to other missions in Niko's story in a neutral position so that the playtime on one game isn't unnecessarily longer than the other.

It also makes sense to me that when The Ancelottis start dealing with the Russians i.e. Bulgarin that that is when he would have built a good enough relationship with Giovanni that he could be ordering his men to carry out hits for him (the Last we see of the coke dealing between the two gangs in Liquidize the assets) so to me putting Party's Over where I did makes sense.


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#78

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 22:08)
It's War is locked in Time by Roman's Sorrow as they happen at the same time. Angels in America can happen anytime between Clean and Serene and It's War  though as can LCC and BCD.

And it's a bit of a catch 22 with Party's over as to me it seems equally Illogical that Rocco would wait that long to have a man killed that he's been dying to see the back of since he met him. Obviously when your playing the game you can play it whatever way you want but I want to put the missions that aren't linked to other missions in Niko's story in a neutral position so that the playtime on one game isn't unnecessarily longer than the other.

It also makes sense to me that when The Ancelottis start dealing with the Russians i.e. Bulgarin that that is when he would have built a good enough relationship with Giovanni that he could be ordering his men to carry out hits for him (the Last we see of the coke dealing between the two gangs in Liquidize the assets) so to me putting Party's Over where I did makes sense.

What exactly locks It's War and Roman's Sorrow into happening at the same time? Does the internet news story for Romans Sorrow pop up after It's War? Cause that doesn't really mean they happen at the same time, that simply means that Roman's Sorrow happens some time AFTER It's War...

And like I said, it's just personal opinion on Party's Over. I don't think we are going to convince each other that the other is correct on that one.

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#79

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 21:56)
And the problem I have with the placement of the missions is that I feel that It's War should take place closer to Angels in America, considering that Angels happens right before No Love Lost and I feel that The Lost wouldn't take a very long time to find out that Jason was killed.

The reason M.O.B put It's War so late is because the story of Roman's Cab Depot being burned down appears right after you complete it, that's why it's placed after Roman's Sorrow.

On another note, I just wanted to ask a question about Clean and Serene being placed right before Final Destination. I know you guys discussed this in the Best of Both Worlds thread but I can't recall exactly why you decided to do that because I remember you having right after Hung Out to Dry.

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#80

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Versityle @ Nov 3 2009, 22:12)
The reason M.O.B put It's War so late is because the story of Roman's Cab Depot being burned down appears right after you complete it, that's why it's placed after Roman's Sorrow.
On another note, I just wanted to ask a question about Clean and Serene being placed right before Final Destination. I know you guys discussed this in the Best of Both Worlds thread but I can't recall exactly why you decided to do that because I remember you having right after Hung Out to Dry.


Just because a missoin being completed triggers a news story to be posted doesn't automatically mean the missions happen at the same time, especially considering that multiple missions in Niko's story can happen in the span of minutes/hours in Johnny's...

And I believe that the position of Clean and Serene came about because the internet news story for Billy Grey being released from prison happens right after Final Destination is completed, which means that Clean and Serene had to logically happen somewhere around that mission.

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#81

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:17 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 03 November 2009 - 10:23 PM.

QUOTE (Versityle @ Nov 3 2009, 22:12)
QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 21:56)
And the problem I have with the placement of the missions is that I feel that It's War should take place closer to Angels in America, considering that Angels happens right before No Love Lost and I feel that The Lost wouldn't take a very long time to find out that Jason was killed.

The reason M.O.B put It's War so late is because the story of Roman's Cab Depot being burned down appears right after you complete it, that's why it's placed after Roman's Sorrow.

On another note, I just wanted to ask a question about Clean and Serene being placed right before Final Destination. I know you guys discussed this in the Best of Both Worlds thread but I can't recall exactly why you decided to do that because I remember you having right after Hung Out to Dry.

I realised that The story about Billy being released appeared on the net after Clean and Serene and not Angels in America Like I had previously thought. I thought I explained it under my original list... maybe I didn't... Let me check.

@liquidus119: Well maybe not at the same time but certainly on the same day.

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#82

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 22:17)
@liquidus119: Well maybe not at the same time but certainly on the same day.

No, I still don't think that makes sense considering how much of Niko's story is condensed within TLAD.

It's like saying that Niko completes Taking in The Trash AND Meltdown within the span of an afternoon because Ray calls you shortly after doing Diamonds in the Rough. That doesn't make sense and isn't even possible, we're just not meant to think about it because it would be ridiculous to have people wait one or more in game days to trigger the next story mission.

The news story popping up should be more of an indication of what happens between Johnny's missions (which are actually multiple days apart in Niko's story) and not an indication of missions happening parallel.

At least that's how I see it.

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#83

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 22:24)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Nov 3 2009, 22:17)
@liquidus119: Well maybe not at the same time but certainly on the same day.

No, I still don't think that makes sense considering how much of Niko's story is condensed within TLAD.

It's like saying that Niko completes Taking in The Trash AND Meltdown within the span of an afternoon because Ray calls you shortly after doing Diamonds in the Rough. That doesn't make sense and isn't even possible, we're just not meant to think about it because it would be ridiculous to have people wait one or more in game days to trigger the next story mission.

The news story popping up should be more of an indication of what happens between Johnny's missions (which are actually multiple days apart in Niko's story) and not an indication of missions happening parallel.

At least that's how I see it.

I think we've established that the occurence of phonecalls isn't really something that can be used as a tool in establishing a sequence of Events considering how unreliable they can be. Internet and Radio is all real time though take for example the way the same song can play on the radio for three hours, internet news stories appear within 13 hours (as stated on Weazle News) of the event they are reporting on.. Which is like 20 real minutes or something (I'm probably way off but it's something like that). So using that as a guide.. it would mean that Niko, Johnny's and Luis's missions that are linked by news stories happen with that 13 game hour time frame.

I'm not trying to be argumentative in the slightest... I'm just trying to simplify things as much as possible. I know you like things cut down to the finest detail (which is cool) but I just think it over complicates things if when things have been settled to an acceptable degree we go back and try and look for reasons why they can't work ya know what I'm sayin?

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#84

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:40 PM

I'm not trying to be argumentive either, I mean it is your list so you should be able to do it however you want.

I just feel that the internet shouldn't be held in such a high regard when it causes the storyline to have hiccups and other things like that.

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#85

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:44 PM Edited by shinsta312, 04 November 2009 - 03:21 PM.

Comment Deleted.

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#86

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:45 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 09 January 2011 - 10:47 PM.

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 22:40)
Yeah, sure.  It's your list, you can do it however you want.  I'm just saying I think it's a little ridiculous to hold the internet in such high regard when it causes the actual flow of missions to feel awkward.

It's just about the only guide we have for this man. If it weren't for the internet linking certain things together my whole original post in this topic would not contain a list atall.. It would simply read:

"Other than the obvious crossovers, you can play the games in whichever order you want.. mods please lock this pointles topic"

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#87

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:48 PM

Just forget it, MOB. I don't want this to turn into an argument or anything. You just asked for opinions on your list and I gave you mine.

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#88

Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 22:48)
Just forget it, MOB. I don't want this to turn into an argument or anything. You just asked for opinions on your list and I gave you mine.

I wanted constructive criticism that would help the topic move forward.. Not people to tell me to go back and waste time by changing things that were already decided on in the Best of Both Worlds topic. I really value your opinion but I just can't make every change people ask me to otherwise I would be constantly coming here to change things back and forth in order to please everyone. I have to make judgment calls on these things man.. hopefully you can understand that. How about a goodwill cookie? cookie.gif sad.gif

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#89

Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:16 PM Edited by liquidus119, 03 November 2009 - 11:33 PM.

I wasn't aware anyone brought up the things I did in the last topic, seeing as I wasn't a part of it until the very end. Sorry to waste your time with this crap MOB, wasn't my intention just wanted to throw out my thoughts was all.

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#90

Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (liquidus119 @ Nov 3 2009, 23:16)
I wasn't aware anyone brought up the things I did in the last topic, seeing as I wasn't a part of it until the very end. Sorry to waste your time with this crap MOB, wasn't my intention just wanted to throw out my thoughts was all.

Ok man apology accepted.. you sure you don't want that cookie??




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