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The Possible Trinity..

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lilchris131
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#511

Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:20 PM Edited by lilchris131, 14 August 2012 - 05:33 PM.

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 07:31)
As far as I know, you can do Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play whenever you like - I believe they are completely inconsequential to the rest of the plot. As we all know, it's Photo Shoot that's the big pre-requisite.

I did notice an error in the game yesterday. If you're not worried about playing consistently, it is possible to start JP's missions before you have met the ULPC guy. However he still emails you to tell you "the people you are consorting with in Alderney are fools and not to be trusted". Niko still replys back "where is the person I am looking for". Of course, with MOB's list this isn't a problem, but R* clearly missed adding a pre-requisite to that email being sent.


Again, they're assuming you will have long completed ULP's missions, and again most likely subconsciously. In contrast, "Portrait of a Killer" (along with JP's "Payback") is needed to unlock Gravelli's mission strand, rather than the last ULP mission simply being the pre-requisite. Perhaps they couldn't see a problem with the last two ULP missions being completed after the start of Gravelli's missions. Personally I think they can be done after "Entourage" but before "Dining Out" since that is when Gravelli announces that Darko Brevic is being delivered as they speak, so doing any ULP missions after this point is ridiculous.

In short what I'm trying to say is that there are many certain missions that are possible to complete after other certain missions even though it doesn't make alot of sense.

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#512

Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Saturday, Jan 21 2012, 05:55)
QUOTE (The_Anti-tragedy @ Friday, Jan 20 2012, 23:29)

Here's the order I'm talking about.
Call and Collect
Liberty City Choppers
Harboring a Grudge
Waste Not Want Knots
Bad Cop Drop
Three Leaf Clover
I luv LC
Politics
Final Interview...
Coming Down
Practice Swing
...Final Interview
Holland Nights
Off Route
Lure
Chinese Takeout
This Sh*t's Cursed
Photo Shoot
Hit the Pipe
Ruff Rider
End of Chapter
Undress to Kill
Bad Standing
The Holland Play
Heavy Toll
The Snow Storm
Marta Full of Grace
Shifting Weight

Have a Heart
A Long Way to Fall
Diamonds in the Rough
Taking in the Trash
Roman's Holiday
Meltdown
*Johnny does random characters and gang wars*
Actions Speak Louder Then Words
I Need Your Clotches, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle
Hostile Negotiation
Smackdown
Babysitting
Tunnel of Death
Museum Piece
Collector's Item
Blood Brothers
Undertaker
I'll Take Her
Was It Worth It?
No Way on the Subway
Weekend at Florian's
Get Lost
Late Checkout

that order is impossible to do

You cannot do Packie's missions before finishing Elizabeta's missions

The order I did the missions was this

Blow Your Cover
ALL Playboy and Dwayne missions
Puerto Rican Connection
ALL Francis missions
The Snow Storm
ALL ULPC missions
Have a Heart

As you can see I did 8 missions in between Call and Collect and Have a Heart as well as doing stunt jumps, pigeons, most wanted, races, friends and activities etc etc and saving frequently which progresses time by 6 hours

The time span was at least 2 weeks in game time, probably more

Packie NEVER called during all this time

As soon as I completed Have a Heart, Packie called a few seconds later

You cannot do Packie missions until completed Have a Heart

Are you sure you did all ULP missions before Have a Heart?

I did the same as you up until "The Snow Storm", then did "Wrong is Right" and "Portrait of a Killer", but after the latter the 'ULP' icon did not automatically reappear on the map to start "Dust Off". However, once I had completed "Have a Heart", ULP immediately became available again.

Here is a little mission tree I made showing what I mean:

user posted image

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#513

Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE (lilchris131 @ Tuesday, Aug 14 2012, 18:20)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.

Phones without a camera can still recieve picture messages so there's no inconsistency that I can see.

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#514

Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Aug 24 2012, 15:02)
QUOTE (lilchris131 @ Tuesday, Aug 14 2012, 18:20)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.

Phones without a camera can still recieve picture messages so there's no inconsistency that I can see.

I see what you mean, but I'm just saying that it's no coincidence that "Photo Shoot" is a pre-requisite for both "Wrong is Right" and "Hostile Negotiation" (and also "Ransom"), since both of these missions use the camera phone, even if it's just for receiving photos. "A Long Way to Fall" also has you receive a photo, but as I said, R* must have forgot to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for this mission since it would normally occur a bit later. But as you say, we can use the fact that phones without a camera can still receive photos as evidence that there is no inconsistency.

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#515

Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:02 PM Edited by RockStarNiko, 30 August 2012 - 07:06 PM.

I am thinking of playing through GTA IV again whilst we all wait for GTA V

Today I been looking over the walkthroughs and missions trees etc because I want to see if there is some logical order within the actual game
1. I think it makes sense to give priority to texts over answering phone calls.
2. I think it makes sense to answer a phone call and do some urgent mission, rather than do a mission where there is no urgency.
3. It makes more sense to go back and forth between mission bosses when you have the opportunity, to allow a bit of time to pass between each mission for the same boss.

Blow Your Cover
After this you unlock PRC and get a text from Playboy that opens DFB.
The text does not come straight away and also we have just been with Playboy, so go sleep mode and do PRC.
Puerto Rican Connection
After this we will be getting 2 texts, one from Playboy, one from unknown and also a call from Elizabeta.
Avoid the call for now.
Playboy is the text to answer first.
Deconstruction for Beginners
After this we have the text, the E call and now another call.
Still avoid the calls for now.
Unknown text will open up Francis missions
Call and Collect
Now we have Final Interview 1, plus 2 calls waiting to be answered. Calls are priority. Elizabeta is priority over Playboy cos she been calling longer.
The Snow Storm......

I am going to play through the game using this method and see what kind of mission order I end up with, I think it will result in a fairly consistent mission order, because the game itself is telling me to go there and do this for them etc.




Avoiding phone calls is very helpful throughout the game. It also does not break any rules of realism because many times we do not answer a call cos we busy.
At certain points of you avoid a phone call for a few missions, you will not get a call from a friend pestering you, because they are occupied and unavailable, this is good.
Using sleep mode and you wont even receive the call in the first place. If you out of sleep mode to get a text, just ignore the call when it rings. Read text and go into sleep mode.

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#516

Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

The differences betwen each are quite interesting rahkstar2.gif

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#517

Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:21)
I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC

eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right?

but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom

now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep

its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison

all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

it gets better though

when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL

also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo

BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around

best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC

just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do

Couldn't agree more. For those interested in playing IV and TLAD without TBoGT (including myself), I don't see a problem with working on an alternative list, considering that some have done lists for TLAD and TBoGT without IV to avoid disc swapping, etc.

The only issue with TLAD is that "Roman's Holiday" and "Diamonds in the Rough" are set up literally at the same time. Forgetting TBoGT completely, Johnny and Niko's stories flow great up to this point, with them doing Liz's missions simultaneously and then unlocking the kidnapping scenario. However, then Johnny has to steal the diamonds for Ray straight after, while Niko has all of Packie's missions to go before he can unlock Ray's strand.

Rockstar could have thought things through better and had the missions available in this order:

Hit the Pipe
Heavy Toll
Marta Full of Grace
Shifting Weight
Roman's Holiday
End of Chapter
Bad Standing
Diamonds in the Rough

That way both Niko and Johnny could unlock the kidnapping scenario after Elizabeta's strand. Then Niko does Packie's missions including the bank robbery while Johnny deals with Brian and his faction. Then Ray's missions for both protagonists can happen simultaneously.

But obviously, this isn't possible.

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#518

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:46 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 11 September 2012 - 02:11 PM.

QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Friday, Sep 7 2012, 13:04)
I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

The differences betwen each are quite interesting  rahkstar2.gif

Great video man icon14.gif

It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.

I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.

@lilchris131: Yeah it's funny how such a little change in how and when the missions become available could make things flow so much better.

Not sure wether you've seen this list I created before TBOGT came out, if not you should check it out. The differences are evident.

Also after looking back over the topic and considering the whole prison phone call thing I'm gonna move Francis McReary's mission "Call and Collect" and Elizabeta's mission "Shifting Weight" up a bit on the list so that the gap between the missions for Elizabeta in GTA IV and TLAD are as close together as possible to make it so that it's possible to do the missions between "Have a Heart" and "Shifting Weight" in IV without having to cancel Mallorie's call more than once or twice. It's a small change but it makes a lot of difference I think. It still might help if you turn off Niko's phone after doing "Smackdown" though.

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#519

Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Monday, Sep 10 2012, 23:46)
QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Friday, Sep 7 2012, 13:04)
I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

The differences betwen each are quite interesting  rahkstar2.gif

Great video man icon14.gif

It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.

I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.

Thanks smile.gif I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios?

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#520

Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Tuesday, Sep 11 2012, 15:54)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Monday, Sep 10 2012, 23:46)
QUOTE (SARDYNA108 @ Friday, Sep 7 2012, 13:04)
I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

The differences betwen each are quite interesting  rahkstar2.gif

Great video man icon14.gif

It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.

I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.

Thanks smile.gif I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios?

The way you have the different Points of View split into two and sometimes three different frames. I'd like to see the various shots edited so it's just one neutral view of all of the different events. In some cases (such as Frosting on the Cake and Buyer's Market) the most up to date DLC representations are best and their cutscenes could be included in there entirety, especially since they are so close to the original scenes from IV (as demonstrated so well in your video) but with missions such The Museum and the Diamond/Gracie exchange it would be necessary to switch between the two different perspectives in order to show everything that's going on.

Out of all the scenes the Museum I feel would be the most difficult however since the different versions represent very much what each individual character is seeing at that time i.e the shots of Mori and Isaac are closer in Niko's version because Niko is closer to them during the handover etc. I guess the cutscene portion could be done using just the cutscenes from TLAD and TBOGT but if gameplay were included then after Luis's POV ends the characters three seperate paths would have to be shown in a way that shows them happening at once. In that instance I actually think that having three seperate frames would be the best way to go but have it so there is no empty space on the screen.. perhaps have Luis's POV be twice the width of Niko and Johnny's frames (since it goes on for longer) and sit on top of them in a triangle formation.

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#521

Posted 12 September 2012 - 05:52 PM

Whatever happened to Magic Al's mission tree? I used to be able to download it but now I get an error. sad.gif

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#522

Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:26 PM

I think it has to be reuploaded by him every so often and he probably hasn't realised that the link has expired. I think if he does upload it again somebody should save it so they can reupload it if it goes down again to take the burden off him.

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#523

Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:11 PM

Definitely doing this when I reach GTAIV on my 100% completion list. Great job. smile.gif

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#524

Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:53 AM

I agree with Magic_Al about Three Leaf Clover being placed before I Luv LC on any sort of list that is made, it just seems to make more sense to me. confused.gif

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#525

Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:59 AM

Rockstar might have noticed this thread, judging from the bold new direction that's happening with GTA.

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#526

Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:25 PM

QUOTE (lilchris131 @ Wednesday, Sep 12 2012, 11:52)
Whatever happened to Magic Al's mission tree? I used to be able to download it but now I get an error. sad.gif

It was hosted on MobileMe which I had for free via my work. The new iCloud replacement doesn't have file hosting. What should I use now?

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#527

Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

Although it isn't a mod, you could try here: http://www.gtagarage...browse.php?C=53

I found the original so useful that I still have a copy saved. icon14.gif

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#528

Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:12 AM

I guess it makes sense good work looks like it prolly took some time thanks

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#529

Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:36 AM

So I found this on GTA Wiki

QUOTE
In the pre-mission cutscene Ray tells Johnny that he "knows about some diamonds" that are being bought "by wiseguys, from wiseguys, for wiseguys" (pointing to himself). Judging by this dialogue it can be assumed that Rocco planned to have Tony and Luis buy the diamonds from the cook so that he could sell them to Ray at a profit, Ray however plans to rip him off instead and take the diamonds for himself in order to sell them Mori and Isaac at a later time.


Can anyone make Sence of this

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#530

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

QUOTE (billy james @ Monday, Nov 26 2012, 05:36)
So I found this on GTA Wiki

QUOTE
In the pre-mission cutscene Ray tells Johnny that he "knows about some diamonds" that are being bought "by wiseguys, from wiseguys, for wiseguys" (pointing to himself). Judging by this dialogue it can be assumed that Rocco planned to have Tony and Luis buy the diamonds from the cook so that he could sell them to Ray at a profit, Ray however plans to rip him off instead and take the diamonds for himself in order to sell them Mori and Isaac at a later time.


Can anyone make Sence of this

Yeah it means that Rocco told Ray that he was buying some diamonds from the cook at the Platypus that he would then sell to Ray but Ray just decided "f*ck that, I'm just gonna just get Johnny to steal the diamonds and not be out of pocket". I don't know how true it is though.. it seems to be just speculation.

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#531

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:58 AM

Thanks for that list

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#532

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE (fp35wj0 @ Thursday, Nov 29 2012, 09:58)
Thanks for that list

You're welcome smile.gif

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#533

Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:14 AM

OK we'll see how this goes. Integrated Mission Tree rehosted at Google.

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#534

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:11 AM Edited by Seddo, 07 December 2012 - 04:54 PM.

Edited.

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#535

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:56 AM

Wrong place you retarded Troll

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#536

Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

I prefer three seprate games, why? because I lose intrest playing long games especially IV however gta SA wasn't boring and gta v better be that way too otherwise I will be really upset

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#537

Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Dec 1 2012, 04:14)
OK we'll see how this goes. Integrated Mission Tree rehosted at Google.

Nice I'd like this to be like in gta SA where carl goes to liberty city frrom SA, that kind of mapping would probably be too big for memory but why don't they use IV and V together puting red dead in would be stupid cos it's old at least those two go together in time.

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#538

Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:05 PM Edited by Seddo, 07 December 2012 - 04:56 PM.

QUOTE
Edited.


f*ck off I hate spammers they are everywhere.

*Please do not quote spamposts and also use the edit button instead of triple posting. Thanks.

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#539

Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

Hm... in the list, Three Leaf Clover is placed before Deconstrcution for Beginners, however, it's obvious that it's not how it's intended by R*, as DFB gives you the AK-47, considered a lesser weapon, and TLC gives you the M4.

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#540

Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

Regarding the chapter-based timeline, unless it's a mistake, "Dust Off" and "Paper Trail" can only be played after "Wrong is Right" and "Portrait of a Killer".




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