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The Possible Trinity..

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The_Anti-tragedy
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#481

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:29 PM Edited by The_Anti-tragedy, 20 January 2012 - 11:41 PM.

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Jan 20 2012, 13:02)
QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 03:35)
After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market?  

this is my order so far

Clean Serene
Angels America
Liberty Choppers
Its War
Bad Cop Drop
Action Reaction
Buyers Market
Politics
Coming Down

But then I thought, actually as soon as the game starts they can go all over Liberty City and Alderney anyways so bridges are already open to bikers lol

This was mentioned before. As far as I know Bad Cop Drop must be done before Buyer's Market though so it's just a bit of an inconsistency.

Buyer's Market is GTA IV's Blow Your Cover when the bridge to Algonquin is open. If Bad Cop Drop is done before Buyer's Market, it will screw things up and open up Alderney before Algonquin is open.
QUOTE
because it is impossible to do Three Leaf Clover until done Have a Heart and impossible to do the Heavy toll until AFTER This sh*t's Cursed
and This sh*t Cursed is AFTER Three Leaf Clover

Here's the order I'm talking about.
Call and Collect
Liberty City Choppers
Harboring a Grudge
Waste Not Want Knots
Bad Cop Drop
Three Leaf Clover
I luv LC
Politics
Final Interview...
Coming Down
Practice Swing
...Final Interview
Holland Nights
Off Route
Lure
Chinese Takeout
This Sh*t's Cursed
Photo Shoot
Hit the Pipe
Ruff Rider
End of Chapter
Undress to Kill
Bad Standing
The Holland Play
Heavy Toll
The Snow Storm
Marta Full of Grace
Shifting Weight

Have a Heart
A Long Way to Fall
Diamonds in the Rough
Taking in the Trash
Roman's Holiday
Meltdown
*Johnny does random characters and gang wars*
Actions Speak Louder Then Words
I Need Your Clotches, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle
Hostile Negotiation
Smackdown
Babysitting
Tunnel of Death
Museum Piece
Collector's Item
Blood Brothers
Undertaker
I'll Take Her
Was It Worth It?
No Way on the Subway
Weekend at Florian's
Get Lost
Late Checkout

RockStarNiko
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#482

Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:55 AM

QUOTE (The_Anti-tragedy @ Friday, Jan 20 2012, 23:29)

Here's the order I'm talking about.
Call and Collect
Liberty City Choppers
Harboring a Grudge
Waste Not Want Knots
Bad Cop Drop
Three Leaf Clover
I luv LC
Politics
Final Interview...
Coming Down
Practice Swing
...Final Interview
Holland Nights
Off Route
Lure
Chinese Takeout
This Sh*t's Cursed
Photo Shoot
Hit the Pipe
Ruff Rider
End of Chapter
Undress to Kill
Bad Standing
The Holland Play
Heavy Toll
The Snow Storm
Marta Full of Grace
Shifting Weight

Have a Heart
A Long Way to Fall
Diamonds in the Rough
Taking in the Trash
Roman's Holiday
Meltdown
*Johnny does random characters and gang wars*
Actions Speak Louder Then Words
I Need Your Clotches, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle
Hostile Negotiation
Smackdown
Babysitting
Tunnel of Death
Museum Piece
Collector's Item
Blood Brothers
Undertaker
I'll Take Her
Was It Worth It?
No Way on the Subway
Weekend at Florian's
Get Lost
Late Checkout

that order is impossible to do

You cannot do Packie's missions before finishing Elizabeta's missions

The order I did the missions was this

Blow Your Cover
ALL Playboy and Dwayne missions
Puerto Rican Connection
ALL Francis missions
The Snow Storm
ALL ULPC missions
Have a Heart

As you can see I did 8 missions in between Call and Collect and Have a Heart as well as doing stunt jumps, pigeons, most wanted, races, friends and activities etc etc and saving frequently which progresses time by 6 hours

The time span was at least 2 weeks in game time, probably more

Packie NEVER called during all this time

As soon as I completed Have a Heart, Packie called a few seconds later

You cannot do Packie missions until completed Have a Heart

The_Anti-tragedy
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#483

Posted 21 January 2012 - 02:54 PM

Looks like we have a little continuity error. bored.gif

Nem Wan
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#484

Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Jan 20 2012, 07:02)
QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 03:35)
After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market? 

this is my order so far

Clean Serene
Angels America
Liberty Choppers
Its War
Bad Cop Drop
Action Reaction
Buyers Market
Politics
Coming Down

But then I thought, actually as soon as the game starts they can go all over Liberty City and Alderney anyways so bridges are already open to bikers lol

This was mentioned before. As far as I know Bad Cop Drop must be done before Buyer's Market though so it's just a bit of an inconsistency.

As a prerequisite to progress in TLAD you don't have to do Jim's strand (Liberty City Choppers and Bad Cop Drop) until prior to This sh*t's Cursed. For continuity, if Bad Cop Drop unlocks the bridge opening news then in theory it belongs immediately before Buyer's Market/Blow Your Cover, but it seems like a mistake. I wonder why Rockstar left any bridge news in TLAD and why, left in, it's not unlocked by Buyer's Market instead.

chapapote
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#485

Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 10:17)
The reason Deconstruction gets pushed so far is because of the missions which come before it. The Packie and Francis's missions and the missions concerning Rocco Pelosi in particular. All of Packie's missions up until Three Leaf Clover and all of Francis's missions up until the second part of Final Interview have to be done before the start of TBOGT and "The Union Trouble" story arc (which includes Deconstruction for Beginners) almost certainly happens one missions after another. Also Hostile negotiation is tied directly to Roman's Holiday thus locking it in place by TLAD's story. In my personal opinion it works out better having all of Playboy and Dwayne's missions together anyway.

Similarly, I don't get why you broke ULP's missions in two. Sets of missions should be done together when possible, shouldn't they? At least, the third one should come with the two first (the last mission can indeed wait, it takes a while to start, it doesn't come immediately after stealing that helicopter).

Anyway, I think Undress To Kill should be immediately before The Holland Play. I think the assault at Playboy's strip club was the catalyst that made Playboy's mind to kill Dwayne. It could be done between Photo Shoot and Hostile Negotiation, you don't get Mallorie's call right after Photo Shoot.

Money Over Bullshit
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#486

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:31 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 26 January 2012 - 05:39 PM.

QUOTE (chapapote @ Thursday, Jan 26 2012, 13:45)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 10:17)
The reason Deconstruction gets pushed so far is because of the missions which come before it. The Packie and Francis's missions and the missions concerning Rocco Pelosi in particular. All of Packie's missions up until Three Leaf Clover and all of Francis's missions up until the second part of Final Interview have to be done before the start of TBOGT and "The Union Trouble" story arc (which includes Deconstruction for Beginners) almost certainly happens one missions after another. Also Hostile negotiation is tied directly to Roman's Holiday thus locking it in place by TLAD's story. In my personal opinion it works out better having all of Playboy and Dwayne's missions together anyway.

Similarly, I don't get why you broke ULP's missions in two. Sets of missions should be done together when possible, shouldn't they? At least, the third one should come with the two first (the last mission can indeed wait, it takes a while to start, it doesn't come immediately after stealing that helicopter).


The in game dialogue makes more sense if the ULP missions are seperated as we have mentioned before.

QUOTE
Anyway, I think Undress To Kill should be immediately before The Holland Play. I think the assault at Playboy's strip club was the catalyst that made Playboy's mind to kill Dwayne. It could be done between Photo Shoot and Hostile Negotiation, you don't get Mallorie's call right after Photo Shoot.


With the time it takes for The Holland Play to actually become available Mallorie would have no doubt called you since Photoshoot unlocks the phonecall that initiates Hostile Negotiation regardless of wether you have done Undress To Kill or not.

If your saying that Undress to Kill should be after Photoshoot though I somewhat agree with you and I don't know wether I considered what you said when making the list and if the was a reason for the placings of those missions or if it was just down to my reluctance to put two EFLC missions back to back since to simply switch them would cause Photo Shoot to come before Roman's Holiday which logically cannot happen.

I usually just wait for a few hours after the initial phonecall and then call Mallorie back. It kinda works either way though since Niko could do Photo Shoot, get the phonecall about Roman not coming home, do Undress To Kill before getting the phonecall about him being kidnapped. If nobody can see a fundemental error then I suppose I will change the list.

Can somebody try this order for me?

[X] Deconstruction for Beginners
[D] Ruff Rider
[X] Photo Shoot
[D] Undress to Kill

And see how it works out i.e. timing between phonecalls etc.

Jimbatron
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#487

Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:31 AM

As far as I know, you can do Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play whenever you like - I believe they are completely inconsequential to the rest of the plot. As we all know, it's Photo Shoot that's the big pre-requisite.

I did notice an error in the game yesterday. If you're not worried about playing consistently, it is possible to start JP's missions before you have met the ULPC guy. However he still emails you to tell you "the people you are consorting with in Alderney are fools and not to be trusted". Niko still replys back "where is the person I am looking for". Of course, with MOB's list this isn't a problem, but R* clearly missed adding a pre-requisite to that email being sent.

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#488

Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:45 AM Edited by Magic_Al, 28 January 2012 - 10:48 AM.

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 01:31)
As far as I know, you can do Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play whenever you like - I believe they are completely inconsequential to the rest of the plot. As we all know, it's Photo Shoot that's the big pre-requisite.

I did notice an error in the game yesterday. If you're not worried about playing consistently, it is possible to start JP's missions before you have met the ULPC guy. However he still emails you to tell you "the people you are consorting with in Alderney are fools and not to be trusted". Niko still replys back "where is the person I am looking for". Of course, with MOB's list this isn't a problem, but R* clearly missed adding a pre-requisite to that email being sent.

Yes, it's possible to ignore the "?" after Photo Shoot for a very long time. Rockstar probably bundled that email in one of the sets of Internet news content that gets unlocked instead of giving it its own trigger.

Does the game ever require you to do Dwayne's missions? I wasn't able to find any of them listed as prerequisites to completion in the strategy guide. Can you get to Story Complete without doing The Holland Play? Or without doing Ruff Rider, even? Is Dwayne just a very elaborate "random character"?

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#489

Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:43 PM

hey, anybody please tell me that why i am not able to join in to my other friends games after installing the simple native trainer??
it says"this match does not allow mods", but my trainer was disabled, & some of my frnz can join with their mods, why cant i, please help, i cant login to ranked matches either... sad.gif ( cryani.gif

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#490

Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:20 AM Edited by Jimbatron, 29 January 2012 - 09:22 AM.

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 10:45)
Does the game ever require you to do Dwayne's missions?  I wasn't able to find any of them listed as prerequisites to completion in the strategy guide.  Can you get to Story Complete without doing The Holland Play?  Or without doing Ruff Rider, even?  Is Dwayne just a very elaborate "random character"?

Yes, you can definitely finish the main story arc without doing any of Dwayne's missions. The only thing I can think of that he unlocks is the potential Cherise random encounter. I think I deliberately avoided them when going for the "Liberty City Minute" achievement, or whatever it's called, where you have to complete the main story in under 30 hours or something. You don't have to do No 1 either - so if you're trying to blast through the missions quickly (not that it is my preffered style), you can reduce the number of friends ringing you up all the time.

The_Anti-tragedy
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#491

Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:37 AM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 10:45)
Does the game ever require you to do Dwayne's missions? I wasn't able to find any of them listed as prerequisites to completion in the strategy guide. Can you get to Story Complete without doing The Holland Play? Or without doing Ruff Rider, even? Is Dwayne just a very elaborate "random character"?

On the mission tree on WikiGTA for GTA IV, Dwayne's missions are not required for the storyline, not even the Holland Play. You only need to do Deconstruction and Photo Shoot in Playboy's and Dwayne's missions.

The problem is, GTA Wiki says that ...The Holland Play is a pre-requisite for "That Special Someone", so I don't know which one is right. Can someone play the game out and not do Dwayne's missions (But you do Photo Shoot) and see how far you'll go? My GTA IV disc ran out.

Money Over Bullshit
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#492

Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:46 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Jan 29 2012, 09:20)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 10:45)
Does the game ever require you to do Dwayne's missions?  I wasn't able to find any of them listed as prerequisites to completion in the strategy guide.  Can you get to Story Complete without doing The Holland Play?  Or without doing Ruff Rider, even?  Is Dwayne just a very elaborate "random character"?

Yes, you can definitely finish the main story arc without doing any of Dwayne's missions. The only thing I can think of that he unlocks is the potential Cherise random encounter. I think I deliberately avoided them when going for the "Liberty City Minute" achievement, or whatever it's called, where you have to complete the main story in under 30 hours or something. You don't have to do No 1 either - so if you're trying to blast through the missions quickly (not that it is my preffered style), you can reduce the number of friends ringing you up all the time.

Very interesting. sly.gif

I just remembered I said I would switch Photo Shoot and Undress to Kill... I'll get right on that now.

Jimbatron
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#493

Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE (The_Anti-tragedy @ Thursday, Feb 2 2012, 00:37)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Jan 28 2012, 10:45)
Does the game ever require you to do Dwayne's missions?  I wasn't able to find any of them listed as prerequisites to completion in the strategy guide.  Can you get to Story Complete without doing The Holland Play?  Or without doing Ruff Rider, even?  Is Dwayne just a very elaborate "random character"?

On the mission tree on WikiGTA for GTA IV, Dwayne's missions are not required for the storyline, not even the Holland Play. You only need to do Deconstruction and Photo Shoot in Playboy's and Dwayne's missions.

The problem is, GTA Wiki says that ...The Holland Play is a pre-requisite for "That Special Someone", so I don't know which one is right. Can someone play the game out and not do Dwayne's missions (But you do Photo Shoot) and see how far you'll go? My GTA IV disc ran out.

GTA Wiki is wrong. You can finish the story without completing "The Holland Play" (and "Ruff Rider" and "Undress to Kill").

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#494

Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:31 AM

im tryin this trinity sh*t out. and I just realized when I finished deconstruction ..a mission from playboy x, that he was blabbin on nd about Yusuf and how they would take control of that construction site and whatever... wouldn't this come before of any yusuf's, missions in tbogt?

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#495

Posted 11 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

QUOTE (mistuhangova @ Wednesday, Mar 7 2012, 02:31)
im tryin this trinity sh*t out. and I just realized when I finished deconstruction ..a mission from playboy x, that he was blabbin on nd about Yusuf and how they would take control of that construction site and whatever... wouldn't this come before of any yusuf's, missions in tbogt?

It seems likely that "Deconstruction for Begginners" should happen after "Caught with your pants down" because in IV it is suggested Yusuf shuts down the site after the union mob are killed by Niko - although he could just have being feeding Playboy X that story to fob him off. As far as I know, there is no proof that it has to be done before or after Yusuf's missions - you can do it when you like and get a consistent playthrough. The only TBOGT missions that it must come before by implication are "Ladies Night" and "Ladies Half Price".

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#496

Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:00 AM

Thanks for that, it's much appreciated!

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#497

Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Mar 11 2012, 19:59)
QUOTE (mistuhangova @ Wednesday, Mar 7 2012, 02:31)
im tryin this trinity sh*t out. and I just realized when I finished deconstruction ..a mission from playboy x, that he was blabbin on nd about Yusuf and how they would take control of that construction site and whatever... wouldn't this come before of any yusuf's, missions in tbogt?

It seems likely that "Deconstruction for Begginners" should happen after "Caught with your pants down" because in IV it is suggested Yusuf shuts down the site after the union mob are killed by Niko - although he could just have being feeding Playboy X that story to fob him off. As far as I know, there is no proof that it has to be done before or after Yusuf's missions - you can do it when you like and get a consistent playthrough. The only TBOGT missions that it must come before by implication are "Ladies Night" and "Ladies Half Price".

Playboy x said yusuf was coming to America , .. implying he want even in liberty city yet...

Money Over Bullshit
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#498

Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:50 PM

QUOTE (mistuhangova @ Tuesday, Mar 13 2012, 15:55)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Mar 11 2012, 19:59)
QUOTE (mistuhangova @ Wednesday, Mar 7 2012, 02:31)
im tryin this trinity sh*t out. and I just realized when I finished deconstruction ..a mission from playboy x, that he was blabbin on nd about Yusuf and how they would take control of that construction site and whatever... wouldn't this come before of any yusuf's, missions in tbogt?

It seems likely that "Deconstruction for Begginners" should happen after "Caught with your pants down" because in IV it is suggested Yusuf shuts down the site after the union mob are killed by Niko - although he could just have being feeding Playboy X that story to fob him off. As far as I know, there is no proof that it has to be done before or after Yusuf's missions - you can do it when you like and get a consistent playthrough. The only TBOGT missions that it must come before by implication are "Ladies Night" and "Ladies Half Price".

Playboy x said yusuf was coming to America , .. implying he want even in liberty city yet...

You're wrong in what you're saying there... Playboy never states Yusuf has not yet arrived in America.

V 9 L U K 3 4 V
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#499

Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:03 PM

intresting

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#500

Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

Pretty darn cool! Well put together!

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#501

Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

dunno if its already pointed out but if eugene reaper dies on 3 leaf clover, how is he alive in wrong is right?

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#502

Posted 06 June 2012 - 05:58 PM

QUOTE (gtaguy95 @ Wednesday, Jun 6 2012, 07:38)
dunno if its already pointed out but if eugene reaper dies on 3 leaf clover, how is he alive in wrong is right?

The possibility of playing Wrong is Right after Three Leaf Clover would be a continuity issue within GTA IV regardless of the add-on episodes.

GTA Wiki and Wikipedia assert these are the same character. Grand Theft Wiki says it is not. Because there is acting in the Wrong is Right cutscene the actor should be credited separately if it's not the same character.

If it is the same character I'd have to update my mission tree to show Wrong is Right as a continuity prerequisite to Three Leaf Clover although it is not required to unlock the mission.

If it is the same character, his gun club speech to Luis could be interpreted as an attempt to protect his ULPC cover by misdirecting Luis about his motivations, anticipating publicity from the incident and trying to preempt speculation that someone trying to stop a robbery might be an undercover officer of some kind.

Money Over Bullshit
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#503

Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:33 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 14 June 2012 - 09:54 PM.

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Wednesday, Jun 6 2012, 18:58)
QUOTE (gtaguy95 @ Wednesday, Jun 6 2012, 07:38)
dunno if its already pointed out but if eugene reaper dies on 3 leaf clover, how is he alive in wrong is right?

The possibility of playing Wrong is Right after Three Leaf Clover would be a continuity issue within GTA IV regardless of the add-on episodes.

GTA Wiki and Wikipedia assert these are the same character. Grand Theft Wiki says it is not. Because there is acting in the Wrong is Right cutscene the actor should be credited separately if it's not the same character.

If it is the same character I'd have to update my mission tree to show Wrong is Right as a continuity prerequisite to Three Leaf Clover although it is not required to unlock the mission.

If it is the same character, his gun club speech to Luis could be interpreted as an attempt to protect his ULPC cover by misdirecting Luis about his motivations, anticipating publicity from the incident and trying to preempt speculation that someone trying to stop a robbery might be an undercover officer of some kind.

I initially thought the same until the Ballad of Gay Tony was released. The guy in the cutscene for Wrong is Right is just a random yuppy who shares the same character model as Eugene in Three Leaf Clover. A similar (if not the same) model is also used for Bryce Dawkins. I think one of the reasons they gave Eugene a whole new model in TBOGT was to draw a distinction between him and other random pedestrians on the street such as the guy in the aforementioned cutscene.

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#504

Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:18 PM

Since you can do Brucies missions after you finish the game, is it possible to do the mission with Roman in the cutscene after A Revengers Tragerty

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#505

Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:23 PM

Not true, only Brucie's mission you can do after the game is No.1 and Roman isn't shown in that cutscene.

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#506

Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Tycek @ Wednesday, Jul 25 2012, 12:23)
Not true, only Brucie's mission you can do after the game is No.1 and Roman isn't shown in that cutscene.

Well that my question thank you Tycek

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#507

Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:58 AM

Ok apart from No 1 what other missions can you do after you finished the game

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#508

Posted 29 July 2012 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (billy james @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 04:58)
Ok apart from No 1 what other missions can you do after you finished the game

According to my mission tree all of these things can be delayed till after Story Complete
  • Random characters, dates with friends and girlfriends, and side missions (except taxi driver)
  • "Out of the Closet Part 2" (if you complete Part 1 but don't kill French Tom you can continue the story. "Out of the Closet Part 2" unlocks "No. 1".)
  • "No. 1" and races and car thefts unlocked by it
  • "Ruff Rider" through "The Holland Play". (You only need to do "Deconstruction for Beginners" and "Photo Shoot" to finish the main story but none of Dwayne's missions nor the "The Holland Play" are needed. That's the probably the biggest subplot that's surprisingly optional.)

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#509

Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Sunday, Jul 29 2012, 21:02)
QUOTE (billy james @ Friday, Jul 27 2012, 04:58)
Ok apart from No 1 what other missions can you do after you finished the game

According to my mission tree all of these things can be delayed till after Story Complete
  • Random characters, dates with friends and girlfriends, and side missions (except taxi driver)
  • "Out of the Closet Part 2" (if you complete Part 1 but don't kill French Tom you can continue the story. "Out of the Closet Part 2" unlocks "No. 1".)
  • "No. 1" and races and car thefts unlocked by it
  • "Ruff Rider" through "The Holland Play". (You only need to do "Deconstruction for Beginners" and "Photo Shoot" to finish the main story but none of Dwayne's missions nor the "The Holland Play" are needed. That's the probably the biggest subplot that's surprisingly optional.)

Although that may be the case it doesn't really make sense to leave those mission strands unfinished and its not like not doing them makes any major changes to the ending of the overall plot so why not do them? Unless you want to complete the game as quick as possible.

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#510

Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:46 AM

It would seem to be significant knowledge for anyone attempting a record speed run. The Story Club feature on Social Club apparently won't list a time faster than 09:00:00. It seems unlikely the shortest possible time is exactly 09:00:00.




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