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The Possible Trinity..

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Jimbatron
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#451

Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE (chapapote @ Sunday, Oct 23 2011, 20:57)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity. MOB did a really good work trying to fix it, but I still don't like it. It just can't be done.

Nope. There's still the Chinese Takeout/This sh*t's Cursed/Have a Heart, which doesn't have a good way to solve it.

It does work - I have tested it.

If you follow MOB's list to the letter it is fine. The only difficulty is that in Niko's story, Mallorie may call you to tell that Elizabeta has been sent to prison before you have completed the final mission for he with Johny ("Shifting Weight"). The danger is this can happen quite quickly after "Have a Heart", and you need to then get Packies three missions done very quickly, as they must occur before "Shifting Weight" with JK.

There is a simple way to avoid this. Mallorie will call you after "The Snow Storm" to talk about Michelle, and then after "Have a Heart" to talk about Elizabeta. After "The Snow Storm", do not pick up any calls from Mallorie until you have completed "Blood Brothers" - if you are following through the list here, you will do "Shifting Weight" with JK, the last time Elizabeta appears. Also, becuase you've backed up two calls from her, the first will be about Michelle, the second will be about Elizabeta. There will then be no inconsistencies.

You will have to pick up Mallories calls eventually however, (after "No Way on the Subway") she needs to call you about Roman thinking of asking her to marry him - this call is necessary for the story to progress. The calls regarding Michelle and Elizabeta are not.

Money Over Bullshit
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#452

Posted 28 October 2011 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Oct 28 2011, 13:07)
QUOTE (chapapote @ Sunday, Oct 23 2011, 20:57)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity. MOB did a really good work trying to fix it, but I still don't like it. It just can't be done.

Nope. There's still the Chinese Takeout/This sh*t's Cursed/Have a Heart, which doesn't have a good way to solve it.

It does work - I have tested it.

If you follow MOB's list to the letter it is fine. The only difficulty is that in Niko's story, Mallorie may call you to tell that Elizabeta has been sent to prison before you have completed the final mission for he with Johny ("Shifting Weight"). The danger is this can happen quite quickly after "Have a Heart", and you need to then get Packies three missions done very quickly, as they must occur before "Shifting Weight" with JK.

There is a simple way to avoid this. Mallorie will call you after "The Snow Storm" to talk about Michelle, and then after "Have a Heart" to talk about Elizabeta. After "The Snow Storm", do not pick up any calls from Mallorie until you have completed "Blood Brothers" - if you are following through the list here, you will do "Shifting Weight" with JK, the last time Elizabeta appears. Also, becuase you've backed up two calls from her, the first will be about Michelle, the second will be about Elizabeta. There will then be no inconsistencies.

You will have to pick up Mallories calls eventually however, (after "No Way on the Subway") she needs to call you about Roman thinking of asking her to marry him - this call is necessary for the story to progress. The calls regarding Michelle and Elizabeta are not.

Well said man. icon14.gif

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#453

Posted 29 October 2011 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
QUOTE (billy james @ Wednesday, Oct 19 2011, 13:56)
I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

QUOTE
Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.


Does this make sence to anyone????

No. Hostile Negotiation is not a prerequisite for Three Leaf Clover. Hostile Negotiation can occur before Three Leaf Clover but not if Niko avoids Photo Shoot until later. Hostile Negotiation will not start without Photo Shoot. If you play Hostile Negotiation early then you're creating an alternate universe where Johnny and Luis are not doing exactly what they're doing in EFLC.

There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity.

Just realised I have video proof for this:



You'll note here I have unlocked Alderney and the Safe House there when I start "Hostile Negotiations", ergo, I must have completed "Three Leaf Clover".

For anyone who didn't need to see the proof there are a couple of nice touches in the video. Firstly, if you arrive by helicopter, the Russians have posted two guys with RPGs on the roof. You'll never see them if you arrive by car. I think this really highlights R*'s attention to detail, that they've really thought about different ways you could attempt to complete the missions. Also, if you want to hear Niko really angry, call Dimitri back as soon as you get his message. I think I completed whole game twice before I tried doing this - it's one of those hidden gems that's easy to miss.

chapapote
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#454

Posted 04 November 2011 - 03:55 PM Edited by chapapote, 04 November 2011 - 03:59 PM.

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Oct 28 2011, 12:07)
QUOTE (chapapote @ Sunday, Oct 23 2011, 20:57)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity. MOB did a really good work trying to fix it, but I still don't like it. It just can't be done.

Nope. There's still the Chinese Takeout/This sh*t's Cursed/Have a Heart, which doesn't have a good way to solve it.

It does work - I have tested it.

If you follow MOB's list to the letter it is fine. The only difficulty is that in Niko's story, Mallorie may call you to tell that Elizabeta has been sent to prison before you have completed the final mission for he with Johny ("Shifting Weight"). The danger is this can happen quite quickly after "Have a Heart", and you need to then get Packies three missions done very quickly, as they must occur before "Shifting Weight" with JK.

There is a simple way to avoid this. Mallorie will call you after "The Snow Storm" to talk about Michelle, and then after "Have a Heart" to talk about Elizabeta. After "The Snow Storm", do not pick up any calls from Mallorie until you have completed "Blood Brothers" - if you are following through the list here, you will do "Shifting Weight" with JK, the last time Elizabeta appears. Also, becuase you've backed up two calls from her, the first will be about Michelle, the second will be about Elizabeta. There will then be no inconsistencies.

You will have to pick up Mallories calls eventually however, (after "No Way on the Subway") she needs to call you about Roman thinking of asking her to marry him - this call is necessary for the story to progress. The calls regarding Michelle and Elizabeta are not.

Man, that's completely unnatural. I mean, why would Niko stop answering calls from Mallorie? That's not what he would do. That method is forcing the game to go through a way it's not actually supposed to go.
Anyway, the fact that you aren't told that a person has been arrested doesn't change that she has indeed been arrested. It's just silly. Maybe the mission order fits, but the storyline doesn't.

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#455

Posted 04 November 2011 - 06:43 PM

Here is my playthrough, using the time of day/day of week should-be's for missions Versatile did two years ago. Probably not a way most people would do it.

Day 1 (Saturday)
The Cousins Bellic (Dawn)
It's Your Call (Morning)
Three's a Crowd (Afternoon)
Bleed Out (Evening)
Day 2 (Sunday)
First Date (Afternoon/Evening)
Day 3 (Monday)
Easy Fare (Noon)
Bull in a China Shop (Evening)
Day 4 (Tuesday)
Jamaican Heat (Afternoon)
Hung Out to Dry (Evening)
Day 5 (Wednesday)
Concrete Jungle (Noon)
Day 6 (Thurday)
Clean Getaway (Afternoon)
Day 7 (Friday)
Ivan The Not So Terrible (Afternoon)
Uncle Vlad (Late Afternoon-Early Evening)
Crime and Punishment (Evening)
Day 8 (Saturday)
Do You Have Protection? (Noon)
Shadow (Evening)
Day 9 (Sunday)
Final Destination (Afternoon/Evening)
Day 10 (Monday)
Clean and Serene (Dawn)
Liberty City Choppers (Afternoon)
Logging On (Afternoon)
Angels in America (Evening)
No Love Lost (Evening)
Day 11 (Tuesday)
Rigged to Blow (Afternoon)
Bad Cop Drop (Afternoon)
The Master and the Molotov (Evening)
Russian Revolution (Late Evening)
Roman's Sorrow (Night-Dawn)
It's War (Night-Dawn)
Day 12 (Wednesday)
Escuela of the Streets (Noon)
Search and Delete (Afternoon)
Action/Reaction (Evening)
Day 13 (Thursday)
Street Sweeper (Morning)
Easy as Can Be (Afternoon)
Luck of the Irish (Evening)
Day 14 (Friday)
Out of the Closet Part 1 (Noon/Afternoon)
Buyer's Market/Blow Your Cover (Evening-Dawn)
Day 15 (Saturday)
The Puerto Rican Connection (Noon)
Out of the Closet Part 2 (Evening)
The Snow Storm (Night-Dawn)
Day 16 (Sunday)
Have a Heart (Evening)
Day 17 (Monday)
Call and Collect (Noon)
Politics (Afternoon)
Harboring a Grudge (Evening)
Coming Down (Evening)
Day 18 (Tuesday)
Waste Not Want Knots (Afternoon-Evening)
Day 19 (Wednesday)
Final Interview Part 1 (Morning)
Three Leaf Clover/I Luv LC (Afternoon-Night)
Day 20 (Thursday)
Smackdown (Dawn)
Practice Swing (Noon)
Off Route (Afternoon)
A Long Way to Fall (Afternoon)
Chinese Takeout (Evening)
This sh*t's Cursed (Late Evening-Dawn)
Day 21 (Friday)
Final Interview Part 2 (Noon)
Kibbutz Number One (Noon)
Actions Speak Louder Than Words (Evening-Night)
Hit the Pipe (Evening)
Momma's Boy (Evening)
Day 22 (Saturday)
Babysitting (Morning)
Sexy Time (Afternoon)
End of Chapter (Afternoon)
Tunnel of Death (Afternoon-Sunset)
Heavy Toll (Evening)
Day 23 (Sunday)
I Need Your Clothes, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle (Afternoon)
Corner Kids (Afternoon)
Marta Full of Grace (Noon)
Day 24 (Monday)
Holland Nights (Afternoon)
This Aint's Checkers (Afternoon)
Shifting Weight (Evening)
Day 25 (Tuesday)
Bang Bang (Noon)
Deconstruction for Beginners (Afternoon)
Ruff Rider (Evening)
Day 26 (Wednesday)
High Dive (Noon)
Lure (Afternoon)
Blog This! Part 1(Evening)
Day 27 (Thursday)
Blood Brothers (Noon)
Clocking Off (Afternoon)
Bad Standing (Evening)
Boulevard Baby (Evening)
Day 28 (Friday)
Undertaker (Noon)
Frosting on the Cake/Diamonds in the Rough (Noon)
Caught with Your Pants Down (Evening)
I'll Take Her Part 1 (Evening)
Day 29 (Saturday)
Taking in the Trash (Morning/Noon)
Blog This! Part 2 (Afternoon)
Photo Shoot (Afternoon/Evening)
Roman's Holiday (Afternoon/Evening)
Ruff Rider (Night)
Day 30 (Sunday)
Meltdown (Noon)
Going Deep (Afternoon)
I'll Take Her Part 2 (Afternoon/Evening)
Hostile Negotiation (Night-Dawn)
Day 31 (Monday)
Museum Piece/Collector's Item/Not So Fast (Afternoon)
Was It Worth It?/No Way on the Subway (Evening)
Dropping In (Evening)
Weekend at Florian's (Evening)
Day 32 (Tuesday)
Ransom (Noon)
Ladies' Night (Afternoon)
Wrong is Right (Afternoon)
Get Lost (Evening)
For The Man Who Has Everything (Evening)
Day 33 (Wednesday)
No. 3 (Afternoon)
Portrait of a Killer (Afternoon)
She's a Keeper (Evening)
Day 34 (Thursday)
Hating the Haters (Afternoon)
Late Checkout (Evening)
Day 35 (Friday)
Truck Hustle (Afternoon)
Pegorino's Pride (Evening)
Day 36 (Saturday)
Payback (Noon)
Union Drive (Afternoon)
Day 37 (Sunday)
Buoy's Ahoy (Afternoon)
In the Crosshairs (Afternoon)
Catch the Wave (Evening)
Day 38 (Monday)
Entourage (Afternoon)
Trespass (Evening)
Day 39 (Tuesday)
Dust Off (Afternoon)
To Live and Die in Alderney (Evening)
Day 40 (Wednesday)
Paper Trail (Afternoon)
Day 41 (Thursday)
Flatline (Afternoon)
Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend/Ladies Half Price (Evening)
Day 42 (Friday)
Dining Out (Evening)
Day 43 (Saturday)
Pest Control (Afternoon)
Liquidize the Assets (Evening)
That Special Someone (Night-Dawn)
Day 44 (Sunday)
One Last Thing (Noon)
If the Price is Right/A Dish Served Cold (Afternoon-Evening)
Day 45 (Monday)
Mr and Mrs Bellic (Noon)
Party's Over (Evening)
Day 46 (Tuesday)
A Revenger's Tragedy/Out of Commission (Noon-Evening)
Departure Time (Noon-Evening)

I missed out No. 1/Undress to Kill/The Holland Play because they can be done after the main story.

If I've missed any missions out or made a mistake, let me know and I'll correct it

Jimbatron
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#456

Posted 06 November 2011 - 12:02 PM Edited by Jimbatron, 06 November 2011 - 12:06 PM.

QUOTE (chapapote @ Friday, Nov 4 2011, 15:55)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Oct 28 2011, 12:07)
QUOTE (chapapote @ Sunday, Oct 23 2011, 20:57)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity. MOB did a really good work trying to fix it, but I still don't like it. It just can't be done.

Nope. There's still the Chinese Takeout/This sh*t's Cursed/Have a Heart, which doesn't have a good way to solve it.

It does work - I have tested it.

If you follow MOB's list to the letter it is fine. The only difficulty is that in Niko's story, Mallorie may call you to tell that Elizabeta has been sent to prison before you have completed the final mission for he with Johny ("Shifting Weight"). The danger is this can happen quite quickly after "Have a Heart", and you need to then get Packies three missions done very quickly, as they must occur before "Shifting Weight" with JK.

There is a simple way to avoid this. Mallorie will call you after "The Snow Storm" to talk about Michelle, and then after "Have a Heart" to talk about Elizabeta. After "The Snow Storm", do not pick up any calls from Mallorie until you have completed "Blood Brothers" - if you are following through the list here, you will do "Shifting Weight" with JK, the last time Elizabeta appears. Also, becuase you've backed up two calls from her, the first will be about Michelle, the second will be about Elizabeta. There will then be no inconsistencies.

You will have to pick up Mallories calls eventually however, (after "No Way on the Subway") she needs to call you about Roman thinking of asking her to marry him - this call is necessary for the story to progress. The calls regarding Michelle and Elizabeta are not.

Man, that's completely unnatural. I mean, why would Niko stop answering calls from Mallorie? That's not what he would do. That method is forcing the game to go through a way it's not actually supposed to go.
Anyway, the fact that you aren't told that a person has been arrested doesn't change that she has indeed been arrested. It's just silly. Maybe the mission order fits, but the storyline doesn't.

I disagree.

You've been asked by your ganster friend McReary to get a suit and head over to his house to prepare for a major Bank Robbery. Are you really going to pick up the phone for a chat with your cousin's girl friend? The only evidence that Elizabeta has been arrested is this phone call - so if it doesn't come, then it's possible it hasn't happened yet (the internet story comes much much later, might be after "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend"?) The call you hand up on is not this call either - it is the call about Michelle. The Elizabeta call will only come after this.

In any case, when I did this, if you blast through Niko's missions quick enough, I was able to get through all of Niko's missions for Packie and two for Ray Boccino before Mallorie even rang the first time to talk about Michelle. Then another couple before she called about Elizabeta. That's enough time if each character does one mission simulatenously to get "This sh*t's Cursed", "Hit the Pipe", "Heavy Toll", "Marta Full Of Grace", and "Shifting Weight" with Johnny. To do this, go straight to Packie's having completed "Have a Heart" (he will call very shortly after this mission), and then use taxis with the skip feature to get to the others.

I agree R* made things a little bit difficult, and this phone call is an irritation if you want to do a consitent playthrough. They would have been better the put Elizabeta's missions for Johny earlier in his story line. I don't see there's any reason why these couldn't have been unlockable before "This sh*t's Cursed". Anyway, the bottom line is that it's not impossible.

Nem Wan
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#457

Posted 06 November 2011 - 03:31 PM

Mallorie's call needn't be taken as confirmation that Elizabeta is at that moment in custody. Taken by itself, it sounds like she's reacting to news of Elizabeta's arrest, but she isn't necessarily. Mallorie and Elizabeta are old friends, but Mallorie and Manny knew each other since childhood. Mallorie is able to accuse Elizabeta of Manny's murder because she's close to the situation. Emotionally, Mallorie would be feeling betrayed, and she's writing Elizabeta off. Mallorie may be certain that Elizabeta is going to prison for what she did, but not actually reporting that it has happened.

Elizabeta is not actually "doing a bid" till she's sentenced much later in the game, and at that point the news says Manny and the cameraman were missing for "several weeks". The news also mentions surveillance audio, the last tape before her arrest being "a heated conversation between her, a Jamaican man and an Eastern European man". That conversation took place before "The Snow Storm". That means her apartment was bugged before then and possibly until her arrest, which has implications for what the police should know about later scenes in that apartment. If her apartment isn't bugged, the tape could be an interception of Elizabeta's phone call to Niko before "The Snow Storm" but although Jacob is referred to in that call he doesn't actually speak.

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#458

Posted 06 November 2011 - 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Sunday, Nov 6 2011, 15:31)
Mallorie may be certain that Elizabeta is going to prison for what she did, but not actually reporting that it has happened.

Elizabeta is not actually "doing a bid" till she's sentenced much later in the game, and at that point the news says Manny and the cameraman were missing for "several weeks".

Possible. I've always found it quite hard to take it anything other than literally however. This said, Elizabeta's answer machine changes to say something like "call me in about 25 years or so". This may be Liz predicting what's about to happen to her - possibly Mallorie hearing this would mis-interpret that it has already happnened? I think from the news report as well, the sentence she is given is a lot longer than 25 years.

If they'd just changed the wording to something like "Elizabeta's looking at a bid", or something like that, there'd clearly be no ambiguity.

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#459

Posted 08 November 2011 - 02:54 AM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Nov 6 2011, 09:46)
This said, Elizabeta's answer machine changes to say something like "call me in about 25 years or so". This may be Liz predicting what's about to happen to her - possibly Mallorie hearing this would mis-interpret that it has already happnened?

Unless she used her jail phone call to change her outgoing message instead of calling her lawyer, Elizabeta probably wasn't arrested yet when she recorded that. She was just cutting off contact with whoever had her number, the line no doubt being tapped by police and no good anyway. I like the theory that Mallorie heard the same message if she tried to call Elizabeta.

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#460

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:39 AM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 19 December 2011 - 02:36 AM.

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Tuesday, Nov 8 2011, 02:54)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sunday, Nov 6 2011, 09:46)
This said, Elizabeta's answer machine changes to say something like "call me in about 25 years or so". This may be Liz predicting what's about to happen to her - possibly Mallorie hearing this would mis-interpret that it has already happnened?

Unless she used her jail phone call to change her outgoing message instead of calling her lawyer, Elizabeta probably wasn't arrested yet when she recorded that. She was just cutting off contact with whoever had her number, the line no doubt being tapped by police and no good anyway. I like the theory that Mallorie heard the same message if she tried to call Elizabeta.

Yeah I like this theory too. There's no actual evidence to support it but it is a really good theory none the less and it makes things sit a bit easier with me. Another thing that could explain the inconsistency is that Elizabeta some how silenced Jorge, who was likely the government's star witness (by death or otherwise) meaning that the case against her would be weak. They then however managed to flip somebody else who gave them the evidence needed to convict her. This would explain her somewhat jovial demeanor when talking to Johnny and the fact that she once again began to operate without fear of the law (as evident by her comments in this mission) despite nearly recieving a sentence which could prevent her from seeing the outside world for a very long time. I know it's a theory which is based purely on speculation but if we view Johnny's missions for her assuming this had happened, in logical terms, it all fits perfectly.

My vision of the events goes like this

• After The Snow Storm Elizabeta becomes aware of Jorge's treachery and sends somebody out looking for him to make sure he never takes the stand however she still remains very paranoid and anxious because he is still out there and has the potential of bringing her whole world crashing down.

• Due to this paranoia she kills Manny and Jay and tells Niko to get rid of the bodies. When he calls her to tell her it's been taken care of however she is still suffering from high levels of anxiety (under the influence of coke and alcohol) and tells Niko that the heat is closing in. She then prepares for the seemingly inevitable and changes her answering machine.

• A few days later she is still somewhat on edge thinking that the police may come in and bust her anyday and tells her new bodyguard Andreas not to let any cops inside the apartment. Johnny tries to gain entry and is stopped by Andreas (Heavy Toll) Liz then tells Johnny and Malc to go steal some coke for her (to make up for the stuff she lost in The Snow Storm).

• Shortly before the next mission (Marta Full of Grace) Elizabeta must recieve some good news (in my assumption that Jorge is dead) because she seems to be a lot happier during that mission, although it could just be because her friend Marta is coming to see her. It's notable that in this cutscene she talks to Johnny about "not being able to survive without dropping some people" (Jorge perhaps?) she also speaks about people partying in her house.. what better way to celebrate dodging a life sentence than a house party eh?

• Shortly after that mission however she becomes aware that somebody else may be snitching on her since she tells Johnny "sh*t is closing in, all these snitches all over the place" she then jokingly asks Andreas if he can "hear that on his wiretap" suggesting that she has come to terms with the fact that she is going to jail and there's nothing she can do about it. She then asks Johnny and Malc to sell some of the coke Marta brought in as a way of payment to them, she then decides to cut her ties with them so they don't get taken down with her. This deal however (as we know) doesn't go according to plan.

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#461

Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:29 PM

this is a good thread, hope discussion starts up again at some point

deconstruction for beginners unlocks assault rifle

three leaf clover unlocks carbine rifle

carbine rifle >>> assault rifle

so why do everyone think three leaf clover should be done before deconstruction?

it does not make any logical sense to me

i have not yet played the DLC games and about 75% through GTA IV

is there anything in GTA IV that indicates you should do three leaf clover much sooner than deconstruction, or is it solely DLC reasons?

i did all other missions that were possible to do before i did three leaf clover because it made more sense to me to complete everything before opening up alderney and getting 250 000 quid

i did deconstruction straight after blow your cover because playboy told me to come over, makes no sense to ignore him for weeks does it?

also i wanted to unlock the penthouse so could save in algonquin biggrin.gif

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#462

Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:32 PM

Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

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#463

Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:44 AM

why can photo shoot not be done more or less straight after deconstruction?

what is the reason it needs to be done much later?

after doing blow your cover with playboy i did

deconstruction
ruff rider
undress to kill
photo shoot
holland play

got safehouse and then went back to the main story missions

you should do photo shoot before any mission that involves being sent pictures

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#464

Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:53 AM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

I actually thought the same just the other day and I quickly realised that when camera phones first came out even phones which did not have a camera could recieve picture messages.. I know this because I was one of the unlucky/poor bastards who still had a phone with no camera but could still recieve photos via MMs.

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#465

Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:06 AM

I did every mission that it was possible to do before I did Three Leaf Clover

I saved that mission for last because it is such a big and important mission and unlocks Alderney

Which missions should be done AFTER and why?

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#466

Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 01:53)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

I actually thought the same just the other day and I quickly realised that when camera phones first came out even phones which did not have a camera could recieve picture messages.. I know this because I was one of the unlucky/poor bastards who still had a phone with no camera but could still recieve photos via MMs.

That must have been a bummer. Your mates could take pictures of you on a night out in an embarrasing position and send them to you, but you couldn't retaliate? I hated camera phones when they came out. You couldn't get away with anything anymore!

@RockStarNiko Several missions must be done after Three Leaf Clover if you want to play all three stories consistently. For instance, Billy appears in Chinese Take Out, which must happen after Three Leaf Clover (as Luis' story starts with this mission). Since this is before Billy gets sent to prison, we know Roman's Holiday must occur after Three Leaf Clover. Similarly Hostile Negotiations must therefore happen after Three Leaf Clover (because it happens after Roman's Holiday). There are several more examples. Check the link to Magic Al's mission tree on the first post to see all the pre-requisites across the three stories.

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#467

Posted 14 January 2012 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 18:27)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 01:53)
QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Friday, Jan 13 2012, 22:32)
Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh f@*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

I actually thought the same just the other day and I quickly realised that when camera phones first came out even phones which did not have a camera could recieve picture messages.. I know this because I was one of the unlucky/poor bastards who still had a phone with no camera but could still recieve photos via MMs.

That must have been a bummer. Your mates could take pictures of you on a night out in an embarrasing position and send them to you, but you couldn't retaliate? I hated camera phones when they came out. You couldn't get away with anything anymore!

@RockStarNiko Several missions must be done after Three Leaf Clover if you want to play all three stories consistently. For instance, Billy appears in Chinese Take Out, which must happen after Three Leaf Clover (as Luis' story starts with this mission). Since this is before Billy gets sent to prison, we know Roman's Holiday must occur after Three Leaf Clover. Similarly Hostile Negotiations must therefore happen after Three Leaf Clover (because it happens after Roman's Holiday). There are several more examples. Check the link to Magic Al's mission tree on the first post to see all the pre-requisites across the three stories.

Ya know that's exactly what used to happen mate lol biggrin.gif

And yeah RockStarNiko: The list has been quite painstakingly tried and tested at this stage (it took almost 2 years to get the current order nailed down). In saying that though some people do come through from time to time and hit me with an obscure little detail which changes the order so if you're playing through the list and you notice something significant that we have overlooked feel free to let me know.

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#468

Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:16 AM

Doing Hostile Negotiation after Three Leaf Clover makes sense because it reintroduces Dimitri more towards the end

I did Harboring a Grudge, then Waste not Want Knots, then Hostile Negotiation, then A Long Way to Fall, then Three Leaf Clover

So delaying Hostile by 2 or 3 missions is no problem

I do not understand why Deconstruction for Beginners is put off for so long though

After Blow Your Cover Playboy Texts you asking you to come over, so ignoring him for weeks seems ridiculous

What is the conflict with Deconstruction being done early when you get the text?

Also here is a thought

If you answer playboy text and go and do his mission after Puerto Rican Connection, by the time you have done deconstruction, Francis should then text after saying to meet him at the pier, which is very close to where you do deconstruction mission, that mission takes you all the way back up Algonquin and when completed Elizabeta should call and you relatively close to Bohan

I do not see the logic in delaying Deconstruction for beginners for such a long time

You are ignoring someone telling you to go see them for a mission AND you end up unlocking carbine rifle before you unlock an assault rifle which is just not logical

I wish they had put more bottlenecks in the main story mission tree to avoid these problems

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#469

Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:40 AM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Saturday, Jan 14 2012, 21:16)
I do not see the logic in delaying Deconstruction for beginners for such a long time

You may be right about this. Photo Shoot has to be delayed till after Roman's Holiday (which is far into TLAD), because if both Photo Shoot and Have a Heart are complete, Hostile Negotiation will begin automatically. At some point you have to take a long break from Playboy X, but whether it's better between Blow Your Cover and Deconstruction or between Deconstruction and Photo Shoot is the question.

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#470

Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:17 AM

The reason Deconstruction gets pushed so far is because of the missions which come before it. The Packie and Francis's missions and the missions concerning Rocco Pelosi in particular. All of Packie's missions up until Three Leaf Clover and all of Francis's missions up until the second part of Final Interview have to be done before the start of TBOGT and "The Union Trouble" story arc (which includes Deconstruction for Beginners) almost certainly happens one missions after another. Also Hostile negotiation is tied directly to Roman's Holiday thus locking it in place by TLAD's story. In my personal opinion it works out better having all of Playboy and Dwayne's missions together anyway.

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#471

Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:21 PM Edited by RockStarNiko, 15 January 2012 - 02:36 PM.

I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC

eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right?

but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom

now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep

its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison

all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

it gets better though

when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL

also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo

BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around

best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC

just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do
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#472

Posted 15 January 2012 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:21)
I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC

eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right?

but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom

now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep

its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison

all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

it gets better though

when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL

also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo

BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around

best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC

just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do

You're exactly right. Before The Ballad came out I had a nice little list that fit together perfectly then TBOGT was released and f*cked the whole thing up. It explained quite a bit and really capped the whole story off nicely but along the way it messed the timeline around so f*cking bad it's not even funny.. in fact it just makes it blatently obvious that they didn't consider in any great detail how the missions fit at all.

The one mission that really messes everything up though is Chinese Takeout which is a very sloppy crossover anyway, this one mission speaks volumes for Rockstar's commitment that they would mess up the whole flow of the three stories for one little crossover which suggests that This sh*t's Cursed was a set-up but doesn't go any further and therefore leaves us scratching our heads as to how the hell Billy get beat up.

The easy thing to do would have been for Brian to come clean before Johnny kills him, this would've not only showed how disloyal Billy was but also how disloyal Brian was, turning on his beloved leader. He had to of known that Johnny was going to kill him (sooner or later) so why not just tell him that Billy set him up and try and take a bit of the heat off himself?

We must play with the cards we are dealt though.

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#473

Posted 15 January 2012 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 14:21)
all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

Don't forget though, in the cutscene for "Museum Piece" Ray explodes at Niko yelling "where the f@*! have you been?".

There's no doubt it's a tricky one. Like MOB says, the real problem stems from Billy turning up in "Chinese Take Out". The whole thing would be more flexible otherwise.

Still it does work. And remember, this list allows a consistent playthrough if you do the MISSIONS in this order - but the time taken between them is flexible in terms of the way you play. Where one character seems to be doing nothing for a while, they could be doing side jobs, or random encounters.

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#474

Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:31 PM

I am almost at the end of GTA IV - 95.81% 85 missions done and I triple checked I done everything so once I do last mission I get 100% biggrin.gif

Then I am gonna download and play LOTD and BOGT

After that I will go through the whole lot again doing only story missions

What order does everyone do last 10-15 missions from Bell onwards?

Last mission I did before starting the finale with Pegorino's Pride was Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend

then my sequence went

Payback
Entourage
Catch the Wave
Trespass
To Live and Die in Alderney
Flatline
Dining Out
Pest Control...

Now I am just on my way to Liquidize some Assets biggrin.gif

then do ...Pest Control

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#475

Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:31 PM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Sunday, Jan 15 2012, 21:31)
I am almost at the end of GTA IV - 95.81% 85 missions done and I triple checked I done everything so once I do last mission I get 100% biggrin.gif

Then I am gonna download and play LOTD and BOGT

After that I will go through the whole lot again doing only story missions

What order does everyone do last 10-15 missions from Bell onwards?

Last mission I did before starting the finale with Pegorino's Pride was Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend

then my sequence went

Payback
Entourage
Catch the Wave
Trespass
To Live and Die in Alderney
Flatline
Dining Out
Pest Control...

Now I am just on my way to Liquidize some Assets biggrin.gif

then do ...Pest Control

"Entourage" must be done directly after "Ladies Half Price" because of a news story about Bobby Jefferson's visit/Gay Tony's clubs being closed down appears on the internet after these missions. Likely Niko does "Diamonds Are a Girls Best Friend" in the evening and "Entourage" the following morning. So by the time Luis goes home and has a good nights sleep the Jefferson visit (Entourage) will have already happened and therefore the news would have broke about the attack. Other than that though you can do the missions in whatever way you want. My rational for doing "To Live and Die in Alderney" as close to "Truck Hustle" as possible though was to have Frankie (Phil's nephew) hold onto the heroin for the least amount of time possible since he would be anxious to get rid of it.

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#476

Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:37 PM

cool

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#477

Posted 19 January 2012 - 03:35 AM

After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market?

this is my order so far

Clean Serene
Angels America
Liberty Choppers
Its War
Bad Cop Drop
Action Reaction
Buyers Market
Politics
Coming Down

But then I thought, actually as soon as the game starts they can go all over Liberty City and Alderney anyways so bridges are already open to bikers lol

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#478

Posted 19 January 2012 - 11:46 PM

I've come up with a HUGE theory.
But only for GTA IV and TLAD timeline.
After doing Blow Your Cover for Elizabeta, do The Puerto-Rican Connection and Deconstruction for Beginners. As for Johnny, hold Jim's missions until after Buyer's Market.
QUOTE
After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market?
While Jim's missions are going on, Niko does Francis' and Packie's missions, doing Three Leaf Clover, so Johnny can go for Stubbs' missions and Coming Down while Niko does the rest of Francis' missions. Three Leaf Clover opens Luis' story. While johnny does Jim's other missions, Niko does "Photo Shoot", "Ruff Rider" "Undress to Kill" for Playboy and Dwayne and also the Holland Play. While Johnny does Elizabeta's missions,(Heavy Toll, Marta Full of Grace, and Shifting Weight) Niko does the rest of Elizabeta's missions too(The Snow Storm, Have a Heart). After "Waste Not Want Knots" for Packie, Niko will get a call from Ray, ignore his missions until after Have a Heart.
While Johnny does "Diamonds in the Rough" for Ray, and "Roman's Holiday" for Ashley, Niko is doing "A Long Way to Fall", "Taking in the Trash" and "Meltdown. Do Hostile Negotiation and Gerry and Derrick's missions before Museum Piece. Johnny will do random characters and side-missions probably. Niko and Johnny and Luis all tie in for the diamond deal and Niko does Blood Brothers, Undertaker and I'll Take Her after. Johnny does Was it Worth It? while Niko does No Way on the subway. And sometime later, probably while Late Checkout or Weekend at Florian's, Johnny does "Get Lost".
That fixes the "Assault Rifle before Carbine Rifle problem" as DFB is before TLC.
And as Jimbatron states, in Museum Piece, Ray asks Niko, "Whee the f*ck have you been!?" showing how it has been a long time.

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#479

Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:20 AM Edited by RockStarNiko, 20 January 2012 - 03:58 AM.

Have a Heart is a key mission

Have a Heart + Call and Collect = Packie calling leading to Three Leaf Clover
Have a Heart + Photo Shoot = Mallorie calling leading to Hostile Negotiation

Maybe there should be a gap between Snow Storm and Have a Heart?

I am just about to do Elizabeta's missions in TLAD so I will have a better idea of her timeline.

If Have a Heart can be delayed then there is a shorter amount of time between Packie 1st call and completing Three Leaf Clover, then do Hostile Negotiation maybe 4 or 5 missions after TLC.

Plenty of people will be calling around this time eg Gerry, Packie, Ray, ULPC possibly for Paper Trail, Playboy possibly so Mallorie can be ignored, just think of it as Niko is busy to answer her calls lol


The best thing about avoiding Mallorie calls is that you are unable to phone Roman to hang out after Have a Heart because he has technically already been kidnapped, which is great because the friends call up far too much especially Roman. It is one less friend to worry about.

Also because I delayed answering Elizabeta (to trigger Snow Storm) for quite a while, maybe a week or more, it meant Jacob never rang me to hang out, which is another bonus. icon14.gif




edit

I just been reading the gta wiki on Elizabeta timeline and it is in wrong order

the order of her missions MUST be

LOTI
BYC/BM
TSS
HAH
HT
MFOG
SW

because it is impossible to do Three Leaf Clover until done Have a Heart and impossible to do the Heavy toll until AFTER This sh*t's Cursed
and This sh*t Cursed is AFTER Three Leaf Clover


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#480

Posted 20 January 2012 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (RockStarNiko @ Thursday, Jan 19 2012, 03:35)
After each mission I been checking internet just before sleep/save and after I did Bad Cop Drop there was a story about bridges being opened, but I had not yet done Buyer's Market/Blow Your cover, so should Bad Cop Drop be done after Buyer's Market?

this is my order so far

Clean Serene
Angels America
Liberty Choppers
Its War
Bad Cop Drop
Action Reaction
Buyers Market
Politics
Coming Down

But then I thought, actually as soon as the game starts they can go all over Liberty City and Alderney anyways so bridges are already open to bikers lol

This was mentioned before. As far as I know Bad Cop Drop must be done before Buyer's Market though so it's just a bit of an inconsistency.




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