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The Possible Trinity

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darrellmonks
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#421

Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:58 PM Edited by darrellmonks, 19 August 2011 - 07:16 PM.

Would it make sense to pin this in TLAD and IV forums?

Anyway thanks alot for this. I cant think of a single game with a story as good as GTA IV the complete collection and playing it in this order just adds to the experience, let alone chilling with Roman, Packie, Jacob, Dwayne, Henriqie and that other twat and the Lost MC. Great game, cant imagine how good the next full installment will be.

Edit: i just noticed something big. http://gta.wikia.com...Me,_Knowing_You check that out its only a side mission but canon wise it must take place around the same time bernie gives Niko the infernus. Im going to research more on it, i think you should put johnnys side missions in the list.

Edit: http://gta.wikia.com/Stubbs'_Dirty_Laundry After some research you should just note all of Stubbs dirty laundry side missions should be completed before bernie gives Niko the infernus.

ElementL09
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#422

Posted 03 September 2011 - 09:59 PM

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission. I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Nem_Wan
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#423

Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission. I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

chapapote
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#424

Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:37 AM Edited by chapapote, 04 September 2011 - 11:54 AM.

Mmm, I don't see that order as the true one. MOB tried his best, and as everyone can see, the result is the best we can get according to what Rockstar gave us, but things like the Have a Heart/Chinese Takeout problem and Ashley giving you missions in two different places at the same time damage its credibility.
Anyway, I still like how this list tries to give an order to the missions to make the game a bit more realistic, trying to establish the order in which the characters would actually do the missions. Do you think a similar topic could be done with, for example, San Andreas?

Staten
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#425

Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (chapapote @ Sunday, Sep 4 2011, 11:37)
Do you think a similar topic could be done with, for example, San Andreas?

Probably, though there would be less to gain, since the main point about the Possible Trinity is to see the three stories intersect, though it's clear that R* didn't have the full story planned. That's understandable - it would mean having to design all the missions for the Episodes before the release of IV itself, along with the scripts and the art design.


Nem_Wan
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#426

Posted 05 September 2011 - 09:30 PM

QUOTE (chapapote @ Sunday, Sep 4 2011, 05:37)
Mmm, I don't see that order as the true one. MOB tried his best, and as everyone can see, the result is the best we can get according to what Rockstar gave us, but things like the Have a Heart/Chinese Takeout problem and Ashley giving you missions in two different places at the same time damage its credibility.
Anyway, I still like how this list tries to give an order to the missions to make the game a bit more realistic, trying to establish the order in which the characters would actually do the missions. Do you think a similar topic could be done with, for example, San Andreas?

It's not about saying there's one correct order for every mission, it's about making it easy to experience all three stories without chronological conflicts. GTA is designed to be a non-linear experience. The ideal Possible Trinity would be a mod or an update from Rockstar that adds a combined single-player mode where you could go to the map screen and scroll through each character to see what missions are available to choose from, with overall progress controlled by prerequisites so you can't get out of order. Without that, a list is the simplest way to experience the combined story, because manually following a combined mission tree is very complicated. The downside of a list is losing the sense of freedom to choose what to do next, and there is actually still a lot of non-linear freedom in the actual combined mission tree, it's just hard to make it easy to follow.

ElementL09
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#427

Posted 06 September 2011 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 23:34)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

Nem_Wan
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#428

Posted 06 September 2011 - 03:41 AM Edited by Magic_Al, 06 September 2011 - 03:45 AM.

QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Monday, Sep 5 2011, 19:19)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 23:34)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

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#429

Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Tuesday, Sep 6 2011, 04:41)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Monday, Sep 5 2011, 19:19)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 23:34)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Corndawg93
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#430

Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:25 AM Edited by billy james, 07 October 2011 - 10:46 PM.

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Oct 7 2011, 00:05)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Tuesday, Sep 6 2011, 04:41)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Monday, Sep 5 2011, 19:19)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 23:34)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Not true, it's not the Gomez boys or Willie Valero

According to Grand Theft Wiki.com it's the Irish who attempt to rob them

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#431

Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:46 AM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 07 October 2011 - 11:49 AM.

QUOTE (billy james @ Friday, Oct 7 2011, 02:25)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Oct 7 2011, 00:05)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Tuesday, Sep 6 2011, 04:41)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Monday, Sep 5 2011, 19:19)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 23:34)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Not true, it's not the Gomez boys or Willie Valero

According to Grand Theft Wiki.com it's the Irish who attempt to rob

Well unless my game is defective Grand Theft Wiki is wrong (wouldn't be the first time) because everytime I've played that mission it's Dominicans on both sides.

Replay the mission or watch it on youtube if you don't believe me.

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#432

Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:26 AM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Oct 7 2011, 11:46)
QUOTE (billy james @ Friday, Oct 7 2011, 02:25)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Friday, Oct 7 2011, 00:05)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Tuesday, Sep 6 2011, 04:41)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Monday, Sep 5 2011, 19:19)
QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 23:34)
QUOTE (ElementL09 @ Saturday, Sep 3 2011, 15:59)
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Not true, it's not the Gomez boys or Willie Valero

According to Grand Theft Wiki.com it's the Irish who attempt to rob

Well unless my game is defective Grand Theft Wiki is wrong (wouldn't be the first time) because everytime I've played that mission it's Dominicans on both sides.

Replay the mission or watch it on youtube if you don't believe me.

Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

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#433

Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE (billy james @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 08:26)
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

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#434

Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 10:09)
QUOTE (billy james @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 08:26)
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

The clothes they got on, there Irish and what makes you think there Dominican and why would a bunch Dominicans attack a bunch of other Dominicans just to get the H

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#435

Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (billy james @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 11:17)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 10:09)
QUOTE (billy james @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 08:26)
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

The clothes they got on, there Irish and what makes you think there Dominican and why would a bunch Dominicans attack a bunch of other Dominicans just to get the H

Because some of them have green shirts on?? I kinda see your point and to me it doesn't make sense either but they are Dominicans no doubt about it. If there was any doubt in my mind I would say it but there isn't. I am sometimes wrong but not on this occasion man sorry.

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#436

Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 21:27)
QUOTE (billy james @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 11:17)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 10:09)
QUOTE (billy james @ Saturday, Oct 8 2011, 08:26)
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

The clothes they got on, there Irish and what makes you think there Dominican and why would a bunch Dominicans attack a bunch of other Dominicans just to get the H

Because some of them have green shirts on?? I kinda see your point and to me it doesn't make sense either but they are Dominicans no doubt about it. If there was any doubt in my mind I would say it but there isn't. I am sometimes wrong but not on this occasion man sorry.

Well just like you I'm sometimes wrong but I'm not wrong now, There not Dominican there Irish, they don't even look Dominican. Unless your eyes are painted on I'm right.

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#437

Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:52 PM

Here's the mission in all it's HD Glory:



Those enemies are Dominican man.. you can't argue with hard evidence

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#438

Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:46 PM

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the big issue here. It's pretty simple to just switch Babysitting and Clocking Off around without messing up the timeline, as they are next to each other in the list anyway.

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#439

Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:57 PM

Last time I checked the Irish aren't black, well I guess I'm wrong

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#440

Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:05 AM

Replayed the mission. I don't know why the wiki says Irish. The rival gang is Hispanic and drives gang Patriots and PMP 600s. Does this match any identified gang? Is it a gang that only appears in this mission? It would be good to sort this out just for correcting the wiki and lists of gangs in Liberty City.

In any case, the boat in Clocking Off is not the same color as the boat in Babysitting and there doesn't seem to be any connection other than both being Reefers.

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#441

Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:19 AM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 11 September 2012 - 02:19 AM.

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Sunday, Oct 9 2011, 01:05)
Replayed the mission. I don't know why the wiki says Irish. The rival gang is Hispanic and drives gang Patriots and PMP 600s. Does this match any identified gang? Is it a gang that only appears in this mission? It would be good to sort this out just for correcting the wiki and lists of gangs in Liberty City.

The gang members are Dominicans as identifyable by their model names in the game's files m y domdrug 01 (male young dominican drug dealer 1) and m y domguy 01 (male young dominican guy 1) etc. We can't assume for sure that these guys are part of Luis's old gang (the ND3) but due to their model names there is a good possibility that they are. The only known member of Luis's old gang seen in any of the games is Oscar Gomez who uses a variation of a model called m y drug (which presumabely stands for male young drug dealer). Many people say that Teddy Benavidez is also a member of the gang even though it doesn't explicitly state anywhere that he is. Teddy also uses a variation of the m y drug model which would suggest that it is an alternative model grouping for the gang.

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#442

Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:19 AM

People saying the Deal ending is canon, well I think Revenge is Canon because Niko would never work with Dimitri again and also I think Party's Over happens a couple hours after Mr and Miss Bellic and Out of Commission happens at the same time as Departure Time.

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#443

Posted 11 October 2011 - 09:34 AM

QUOTE (billy james @ Sunday, Oct 9 2011, 03:19)
People saying the Deal ending is canon, well I think Revenge is Canon because Niko would never work with Dimitri again and also I think Party's Over happens a couple hours after Mr and Miss Bellic and Out of Commission happens at the same time as Departure Time.

Neither is Canon.. not until Rockstar confirms it. Which given their past track record of keeping things ambiguous I don't think they will.

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#444

Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:23 AM

QUOTE (billy james @ Sunday, Oct 9 2011, 02:19)
People saying the Deal ending is canon, well I think Revenge is Canon because Niko would never work with Dimitri again and also I think Party's Over happens a couple hours after Mr and Miss Bellic and Out of Commission happens at the same time as Departure Time.

Departure time must happen after Niko's end game, because in one of the possible cutscene conversations, Timur confirms that Rascalov is dead.

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#445

Posted 16 October 2011 - 07:32 PM

I'm sure you get a better appreciation for the storyline after playing the game in chronological order.

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#446

Posted 19 October 2011 - 07:56 PM Edited by billy james, 19 October 2011 - 07:59 PM.

I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

QUOTE
Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.


Does this make sence to anyone????

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#447

Posted 19 October 2011 - 08:08 PM

In fact, it makes sense to me.

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#448

Posted 20 October 2011 - 06:37 AM

QUOTE (billy james @ Wednesday, Oct 19 2011, 13:56)
I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

QUOTE
Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.


Does this make sence to anyone????

No. Hostile Negotiation is not a prerequisite for Three Leaf Clover. Hostile Negotiation can occur before Three Leaf Clover but not if Niko avoids Photo Shoot until later. Hostile Negotiation will not start without Photo Shoot. If you play Hostile Negotiation early then you're creating an alternate universe where Johnny and Luis are not doing exactly what they're doing in EFLC.

There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity.

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#449

Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity. MOB did a really good work trying to fix it, but I still don't like it. It just can't be done.

Nope. There's still the Chinese Takeout/This sh*t's Cursed/Have a Heart, which doesn't have a good way to solve it.

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#450

Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:31 AM

QUOTE (Magic_Al @ Thursday, Oct 20 2011, 06:37)
QUOTE (billy james @ Wednesday, Oct 19 2011, 13:56)
I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

QUOTE
Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.


Does this make sence to anyone????

No. Hostile Negotiation is not a prerequisite for Three Leaf Clover. Hostile Negotiation can occur before Three Leaf Clover but not if Niko avoids Photo Shoot until later. Hostile Negotiation will not start without Photo Shoot. If you play Hostile Negotiation early then you're creating an alternate universe where Johnny and Luis are not doing exactly what they're doing in EFLC.

There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity.

Yes, Photo Shoot unlocks a lot of random missions in the game due to the camera phone being unlocked.




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