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The Possible Trinity

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Jimbatron
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#331

Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:14 PM Edited by Jimbatron, 26 May 2010 - 12:25 PM.

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ May 26 2010, 12:04)
That has been mentioned before but it's impossible since Gerry's "in prison" missions cannot occur before Museum Piece in GTA IV.

It's likely that Gracie was just out getting drunk or high or f*cked by some Guido (Or all three).

EDIT: Actually no.. that's not the reason. The reason is that Tony and Luis haven't got the diamonds back until after the Museam Mission meaning that The McReary's would have no reason to kidnap Gracie so that's why that theory is impossible. I knew there was a solid reason I just couldn't remember what it was lol  smile.gif


Aren't they just intially just kidnapping her to de-stabalise the Ancellotis for Pegorino? I'm not sure the diamonds are mentioned by the Irish at all until "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend"

I'm fairly certain "I'll take her" could occur before museum piece, although "She's a keeper" definitely can't. Not sure though - I may be missing somenthing (e.g. internet stories)

EDIT - at some point though Ray Boccino calls Niko to say he know's the old man ain't gonna to pay up "it's her friend Gay Tony who's coughing up with my ice". Not sure when this call is triggered though. This might be a reference point - I'm not sure if during "Ladies night" night Tony says the Old Man has ordered him to do so yet - just that they will be in trouble if they don't get her back. ("Ladies Night" might have to occur before Ray calls Niko I guess is where I'm going).

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#332

Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:25 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ May 26 2010, 13:14)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ May 26 2010, 12:04)
That has been mentioned before but it's impossible since Gerry's "in prison" missions cannot occur before Museum Piece in GTA IV.

It's likely that Gracie was just out getting drunk or high or f*cked by some Guido (Or all three).

EDIT: Actually no.. that's not the reason. The reason is that Tony and Luis haven't got the diamonds back until after the Museam Mission meaning that The McReary's would have no reason to kidnap Gracie so that's why that theory is impossible. I knew there was a solid reason I just couldn't remember what it was lol  smile.gif


Aren't they just intially just kidnapping her to de-stabalise the Ancellotis for Pegorino? I'm not sure the diamonds are mentioned by the Irish at all until "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend"

I'm fairly certain "I'll take her" could occur before museum piece, although "She's a keeper" definitely can't. Not sure though - I may be missing somenthing (e.g. internet stories)

I'm pretty sure the whole reason they Kidnap Gracie is to force Giovanni Ancelotti to hand over the diamonds to them. There is a chance that I could be wrong but I don't think I am. The way he phrases it is something to do with Niko being married to somebody and the diamonds being a "wedding gift" or something like that (so that the guards don't figure out the plan) then he tells Niko to call Packie who will fill him in on the details.

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#333

Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:30 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ May 26 2010, 12:14)
EDIT - at some point though Ray Boccino calls Niko to say he know's the old man ain't gonna to pay up "it's her friend Gay Tony who's coughing up with my ice". Not sure when this call is triggered though. This might be a reference point - I'm not sure if during "Ladies night" night Tony says the Old Man has ordered him to do so yet - just that they will be in trouble if they don't get her back. ("Ladies Night" might have to occur before Ray calls Niko I guess is where I'm going).

Just realised that doesn't add anything. The phone call occurs between "Photo Shoot" and "She's a Keeper" and we already know Ladies night must occur between the two.

Nevertheless, Ray's call does imply the original intention was not to get the diamonds, but to extort money directly from the Old Man.

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#334

Posted 26 May 2010 - 03:11 PM

the phone call is trigered right after the "side/quick-"mission RANSOM, where you photograph gracie ancelotti. sure ray wants money, but as he states that old man ancelotti won't pay up and knows he is familiar with gay tony (who's got the diamonds back), he would like them diamonds back.

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#335

Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:01 PM

I think the only real decider is if Gerry mentions the diamonds in "I'll Take Her" since Ray's phonecall could be taken a couple of different ways.

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#336

Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:19 PM

According to my mission tree (see first post) Late Checkout cannot be done before No Way on the Subway, which follows Museum Piece. Late Checkout must be done before Ransom. However, I'll Take Her... and ...I'll Take Her can be done before Museum Piece.

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#337

Posted 26 May 2010 - 05:44 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 10 January 2011 - 03:17 PM.

Here is the alternative chapter based list I mentioned before:

Chapter 1

The Cousins Bellic
It's Your Call
Three's a Crowd
Bleed Out
First Date

Chapter 2

Easy Fare
Jamaican Heat
Concrete Jungle
Bull In a China Shop
Hung Out to Dry
Clean Getaway
Ivan the Not So Terrible
Uncle Vlad

Chapter 3

Crime and Punishment
Do You Have Protection?
Shadow
Final Destination
Clean and Serene
Angels In America
No Love Lost
Rigged to Blow
Logging On

Chapter 4

Liberty City Choppers
Bad Cop Drop

The Master and the Molotov
Russian Revolution
Roman's Sorrow
It's War
Action/Reaction

Chapter 5

Search and Delete
Easy As Can Be
Out of the Closet
No. 1
Escuela of the Streets
Street Sweeper

Chapter 6

Luck of the Irish
Blow Your Cover
Buyer's Market
Politics
Coming Down
Off Route

The Puerto Rican Connection
The Snow Storm
Have a Heart

Chapter 7

Call and Collect
Harboring a Grudge
Waste Not Want Knots
Three Leaf Clover
I Luv LC
Smackdown
Final Interview


Chapter 8

Chinese Takeout
This sh*t's Cursed
Momma's Boy
Hit the Pipe
Corner Kids
Clocking Off
Holland Nights
Lure
End of Chapter
Bad Standing


Chapter 9

Heavy Toll
Marta Full Of Grace
Shifting Weight

Actions Speak Louder than Words
I Need Your Clothes, Your Boots and Your Motorcycle
A Long Way to Fall
Sexy Time
High Dive
Caught With Your Pants Down


Chapter 10

Babysitting
Tunnel of Death
Blood Brothers
Undertaker
Dust Off
Paper Trail

Chapter 11

Practice Swing
Bang Bang

Deconstruction for Beginners
Ruff Rider
Undress to Kill
Kibbutz Number One
Roman's Holiday
This Aint Checkers
No. 3

Photo Shoot
Hostile Negotiation
The Holland Play


Chapter 12

Wrong Is Right
Portrait of a Killer
Blog This!
Frosting On The Cake

Diamonds In the Rough
Taking In the Trash
Boulevard Baby
...Blog This!
Meltdown

Chapter 13

I'll Take Her
Museum Piece
Collector's Item
Not So Fast
Was It Worth It?
No Way on the Subway

Chapter 14

Weekend at Florian's
Late Checkout
Going Deep
Dropping In

Hating the Haters
Union Drive
Buoy's Ahoy

Chapter 15

Truck Hustle
Pegorino's Pride
Payback
Catch the Wave
Trespass
To Live and Die In Alderney

Chapter 16

For The Man Who Has Everything
In The Crosshairs
Get Lost
Ransom
Ladies' Night
She's A Keeper
Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend
Ladies Half Price

Chapter 17

Entourage
Dining Out
Liquidize the Assets
Flatline
Pest Control

Chapter 18

That Special Someone
One Last Thing
If the Price Is Right / A Dish Served Cold
Mr. & Mrs. Bellic
A Revenger's Tragedy / Out of Commission
Party's Over
Departure Time

Money Over Bullshit
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#338

Posted 31 May 2010 - 10:25 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 01 June 2010 - 12:10 AM.

I've replayed I'll Take her and sure enough there is no mention of the diamonds. In fact Gordon actually says (about Gracie's Dad) "He's got alot of money and he pissed off Gerald, that's good enough for me" when asked by Niko why he was asked to kidnap Gracie. This means that there was indeed a mistake on my part and I misunderstood the reasons for kidnapping gracie initially.

With that said, I'm gonna rejig the list a bit so that I'll take her occurs before Museum Piece. It does beg the question of why Gerry didn't escape during the prison break though.

EDIT: The changes have now been made to the list.

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#339

Posted 31 May 2010 - 10:27 PM

This is a grand topic, I played through the list a couple of months ago, it was AWESOME. Some things are a bit weird though, but it's not always the lists fault but plot holes. It would be great if R* would release an official list with the order of all the missions.

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#340

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ May 31 2010, 23:27)
This is a grand topic, I played through the list a couple of months ago, it was AWESOME. Some things are a bit weird though, but it's not always the lists fault but plot holes. It would be great if R* would release an official list with the order of all the missions.

It's NEVER the list's fault. lol colgate.gif

Yeah them plotholes are a motherf*cker devil.gif

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#341

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:50 PM Edited by Jimbatron, 01 June 2010 - 12:54 PM.

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ May 31 2010, 22:25)
With that said, I'm gonna rejig the list a bit so that I'll take her occurs before Museum Piece. It does beg the question of why Gerry didn't escape during the prison break though.


Sorry to push my theory further - but as we've said it is possible "Get Lost" might occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" (Gerry's final mission).

Of course Niko would need to do the following between "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" Starting:

[RB] Weekend at Florian's (Assuming he can't ignore Ray's call)
[RB] Late Checkout
[PMC] Ransom
[GMC] She's A Keeper

With "No Way on the Subway" occuring at the same time as "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" potentially running at the same time as "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" if Johnny arrives just after Niko has left after speaking to Gerry.

I think I am also right in saying the the BC, PC and JP mission could all occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" without causing any conflicts.

It might also future proof the list. If R* bring Gerald McReary back by deciding he escaped (having already dropped a hint we may see Packie again in TBOGT credits) this will be consistent. However, even if we see Packie in a future installment and not Gerald, it is possible he was locked up in his cell during "Get Lost" and couldn't take advanatge. It seems unlikely though "Get Lost" could have occured between Gerry's prison missions - not impossible but there is nothing in the cut scenes with Niko to suggest anything like that has happened.

Just thought of a further point of consistency, it kind of makes sense that the $2m Johnny nicked never gets mentioned in the PB or JP cut scenes. You'd have thought the Peggorino family would still be trying to get it back - unless of course, The Lost Clubhouse has already been torched after "Get Lost" and they no longer have a way to find the scattered bikers. PB knew about the bikers involvement not just Ray, so I don't think they'd have let it go prior to the events of "Get Lost".

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#342

Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Jun 1 2010, 05:11)
QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ May 31 2010, 23:27)
This is a grand topic, I played through the list a couple of months ago, it was AWESOME. Some things are a bit weird though, but it's not always the lists fault but plot holes. It would be great if R* would release an official list with the order of all the missions.

It's NEVER the list's fault. lol colgate.gif

Yeah them plotholes are a motherf*cker devil.gif

Yeah like the whole "bum finding the diamonds at meadows park" plothole. That thing is soo huge kirsty alley driving a winnebago could fit through.

http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=447769

it's worth a look.


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#343

Posted 02 June 2010 - 02:19 PM

Interesting. I just finished 'Episodes' but I'm going to fire it up again along with GTA IV and do this list. Good stuff.

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#344

Posted 02 June 2010 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Jun 1 2010, 13:50)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ May 31 2010, 22:25)
With that said, I'm gonna rejig the list a bit so that I'll take her occurs before Museum Piece. It does beg the question of why Gerry didn't escape during the prison break though.


Sorry to push my theory further - but as we've said it is possible "Get Lost" might occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" (Gerry's final mission).

Of course Niko would need to do the following between "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" Starting:

[RB] Weekend at Florian's (Assuming he can't ignore Ray's call)
[RB] Late Checkout
[PMC] Ransom
[GMC] She's A Keeper

With "No Way on the Subway" occuring at the same time as "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" potentially running at the same time as "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" if Johnny arrives just after Niko has left after speaking to Gerry.

I think I am also right in saying the the BC, PC and JP mission could all occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" without causing any conflicts.

It might also future proof the list. If R* bring Gerald McReary back by deciding he escaped (having already dropped a hint we may see Packie again in TBOGT credits) this will be consistent. However, even if we see Packie in a future installment and not Gerald, it is possible he was locked up in his cell during "Get Lost" and couldn't take advanatge. It seems unlikely though "Get Lost" could have occured between Gerry's prison missions - not impossible but there is nothing in the cut scenes with Niko to suggest anything like that has happened.

Just thought of a further point of consistency, it kind of makes sense that the $2m Johnny nicked never gets mentioned in the PB or JP cut scenes. You'd have thought the Peggorino family would still be trying to get it back - unless of course, The Lost Clubhouse has already been torched after "Get Lost" and they no longer have a way to find the scattered bikers. PB knew about the bikers involvement not just Ray, so I don't think they'd have let it go prior to the events of "Get Lost".

I think that maybe Gerry just didn't escape from the prison because he was in his cell rather than in the yard that Johnny and the boys broke into to kill Billy. Still seems like something he would've commented on to Niko though.

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#345

Posted 29 July 2010 - 11:25 PM

Can't wait to play through this mob, looking good.

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#346

Posted 30 July 2010 - 07:06 PM Edited by Firefly8000, 30 July 2010 - 07:11 PM.

It's messed up when it comes to Romans Holiday/Hostile Negotiation. It has to happen after the Three Leaf Clover but you have no control and after all the times ive replayed the game, it always happens before Three Leaf Clover.

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#347

Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:56 PM

i played trough it and there was 1 mistake...

the alderney safehouse and the derricks mission babysitting cant be unlocked before ray mission long way to fall

other than that, good job MOB! icon14.gif

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#348

Posted 05 August 2010 - 03:13 AM

QUOTE (Firefly8000 @ Jul 30 2010, 13:06)
It's messed up when it comes to Romans Holiday/Hostile Negotiation. It has to happen after the Three Leaf Clover but you have no control and after all the times ive replayed the game, it always happens before Three Leaf Clover.

This can be fixed by moving either Coming Down or Bad Standing between Three Leaf Clover and Diamonds in the Rough, because Coming Down and Bad Standing are prerequisites to Roman's Holiday. In fact, Liberty City Choppers and everything after Buyer's Market can follow Three Leaf Clover without breaking the mission tree, but that would mean starting TLAD then forgetting about it due to too many Niko missions in a row.

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#349

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:18 AM

I must say, through all I have seen on these forums, this deserves a commendation of some sorts. The time and effort you put into this is not only wondrous, but proves for any fan of the plot such as I, that the proof is in the pudding in a way. So many believe that, when they play these three wonderful games, that the story is just a back-drop for their little hour of mayhem before they switch back over to Call of Duty.

It is very refreshing to see someone take time to re-visit the storyline and actually test the three, and see if it really was possible for all three to have happened simultaneously.

Bravo.

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#350

Posted 05 August 2010 - 12:34 PM Edited by Jimbatron, 05 August 2010 - 12:42 PM.

QUOTE (Firefly8000 @ Jul 30 2010, 19:06)
It's messed up when it comes to Romans Holiday/Hostile Negotiation. It has to happen after the Three Leaf Clover but you have no control and after all the times ive replayed the game, it always happens before Three Leaf Clover.

This is actually fairly easy to control.

Hostile Negotiation cannot take place before you have done "Photo Shoot" for Playboy X. This is where Niko is given a new phone with a camera, which you must have in order to recieve the picture message from Dimitri. Fortunately, if I'm right, "Photo Shoot" itself is fairly inconsequential to the rest of the plot (other than triggering further missions), so you can do this pretty much any time you want (e.g after "Three Leaf Clover").

EDIT: oh and totally agree with MetaPhysics. This topic deserves to be pinned, it's the most comprehensive guide you'll find to the overlap between the three story arcs.

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#351

Posted 12 August 2010 - 01:15 PM

Thanks for the great vote of confidence and support guys colgate.gif

And to gtaguy95: I will rework the list a bit to reflect that, thanks icon14.gif

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#352

Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Aug 5 2010, 14:34)
This topic deserves to be pinned.

I don't see why not. A lot of work has gone into this obviously, and MOB seems keen to keep the topic up to date. Pinned. smile.gif

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#353

Posted 30 August 2010 - 07:27 PM

Congratulations Money over Bullsh*t. This topic really deserves to be pinned. icon14.gif . You made a great job.

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#354

Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:37 PM

'Bout time tounge.gif .

Being going through the missions in order lately and it seems spot on, good work.

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#355

Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:50 PM

Just noticed that this topic got pinned!! biggrin.gif

Thank you so much Azazel and all those who helped me with this topic along the way. icon14.gif icon14.gif

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#356

Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:10 PM

Pretty impressed with the effort of making this list. Right now, I've begun the TBOGT integration.

One thing that irks me is the Elizabeta missions in the Lost and Damned and how Niko's string of missions for her concludes before Johnny's does. Because Elizabeta is sent away immediately after Niko's missions.

Was it impossible to rework this from happening?

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#357

Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (NonRetard @ Sep 7 2010, 20:10)
Pretty impressed with the effort of making this list. Right now, I've begun the TBOGT integration.

One thing that irks me is the Elizabeta missions in the Lost and Damned and how Niko's string of missions for her concludes before Johnny's does. Because Elizabeta is sent away immediately after Niko's missions.

Was it impossible to rework this from happening?

This does seem to be the only major tricky bit.

I've replayed this recently. As MOB and others have already pointed out, Chinese Takeout must happen after Three Leaf Clover, which must happen after Have a Heart. However, Chinese Takeout occurs alongside This sh*ts cursed, which is necessary to unlock Johnny's further Elizabeta's missions.

This was definitely workable in theory, and I think I've confrimed it in practice. The only difficulty is shortly after Have a Heart, Mallorie will call Niko to say that Elizabeta is "doing a bid". Realistically Johnny's missions for her must complete before this phone call. I tried it, and if you blast through Packie's three missions quickly, it is possible to get all these done before she calls Niko (I managed a couple for Ray Boccino too). It's helped by the fact you finish Have a Heart near to Packies house - he should call you immediately afterwards and you can go straight there. Also, if you complete Have a Heart straight from Snow Storm (again the location is close), Mallorie must first call you about Michelle before she rings again about Elizabeta. This effectively backs her calls up a bit and gives you more time to complete the trilogy in a consistent fashion. Hope that made sense?!

Oh, and nice to see your topic pinned MOB - well deserved. I'm not sure if you are aware though, but it appears the link to Magic_Al's integrated mission tree isn't working anymore.

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#358

Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sep 8 2010, 13:20)
QUOTE (NonRetard @ Sep 7 2010, 20:10)
Pretty impressed with the effort of making this list.  Right now, I've begun the TBOGT integration.

One thing that irks me is the Elizabeta missions in the Lost and Damned and how Niko's string of missions for her concludes before Johnny's does.  Because Elizabeta is sent away immediately after Niko's missions.

Was it impossible to rework this from happening?

This does seem to be the only major tricky bit.

I've replayed this recently. As MOB and others have already pointed out, Chinese Takeout must happen after Three Leaf Clover, which must happen after Have a Heart. However, Chinese Takeout occurs alongside This sh*ts cursed, which is necessary to unlock Johnny's further Elizabeta's missions.

This was definitely workable in theory, and I think I've confrimed it in practice. The only difficulty is shortly after Have a Heart, Mallorie will call Niko to say that Elizabeta is "doing a bid". Realistically Johnny's missions for her must complete before this phone call. I tried it, and if you blast through Packie's three missions quickly, it is possible to get all these done before she calls Niko (I managed a couple for Ray Boccino too). It's helped by the fact you finish Have a Heart near to Packies house - he should call you immediately afterwards and you can go straight there. Also, if you complete Have a Heart straight from Snow Storm (again the location is close), Mallorie must first call you about Michelle before she rings again about Elizabeta. This effectively backs her calls up a bit and gives you more time to complete the trilogy in a consistent fashion. Hope that made sense?!

Oh, and nice to see your topic pinned MOB - well deserved. I'm not sure if you are aware though, but it appears the link to Magic_Al's integrated mission tree isn't working anymore.

Yeah I noticed that man.. unfortunately it's out of my control though.

I like your proposition about the Elizabetha missions too. Unfortunately it's kind of cheating the system in a way and throws up it's own set of problems since the list is majorly based on how Niko, Johnny and Luis would logically advance through their respective stories. It is an alternative way of doing things though and there is nothing wrong with that.

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#359

Posted 14 September 2010 - 01:46 AM

QUOTE (Jimbatron @ Sep 8 2010, 06:20)
I'm not sure if you are aware though, but it appears the link to Magic_Al's integrated mission tree isn't working anymore.

Sorry! Fixed.

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#360

Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:20 AM Edited by meson1, 14 September 2010 - 04:12 PM.

Thanks for that mission tree MA. Right after I'd gone and made my own too, because I thought you'd "left" the board.

But I think that confirms an error in MOB's mission list, doesn't it?

He has "Babysitting" before "A Long Way To Fall" when according to everything I've seen "A Long Way To Fall" is one of the triggers for "Babysitting"

Now I thought I'd got it wrong because I'm sure numerous people have said that they've played through MOB's list without any problems.




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