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Jim Fitzgerald in BOGT

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JOSEPH X
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#1

Posted 29 September 2009 - 05:08 PM

Take a look at the two screenshots below, they show the same mission being done by Luis in different cars - The Tampa and The Bullet.

user posted image
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The location where these screens were taken is here...

Click here to view the SnapMap

What makes me think these are screens of the Mission with Fitz is:

1. The location - it`s on the same track used in No Way on the Subway, only going in the opposite direction that Niko took to chase the bikers.

2. It`s a different mission to the carriage theft mission for Yusuf Amir, which isn`t done in a car (Luis jumps off a freeway overpass onto the train) and takes place in South Broker.

3. The blasts Luis is dodging are the same as the pipe bombs used in TLAD and Hit The Pipe, which look on the screens as if they are being dropped by someone Luis is chasing

4. Rockstar must have noted the massive plothole we all discovered straight after the release of TLAD, so if the death of Jim Fitzgerald wasn`t planned from the outset, they`ve had time since February to create the mission to cover the plothole.

So what do you think? Is this the missing link in the Jim Fitzgerald mystery that will be cleared up in BOGT?

MitchJ90
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#2

Posted 29 September 2009 - 05:29 PM Edited by MitchJ90, 29 September 2009 - 05:41 PM.

No its not.

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#3

Posted 29 September 2009 - 05:41 PM

Well it looks like he's attempting to blow up that subway car. Although I don't know why. If Jim is, apparently, in said subway car then I can see it.. maybe.


But really, I think Niko kills Jim and that's that.

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#4

Posted 29 September 2009 - 05:42 PM

Hm I dont think so, it seems a little farfetch'd! dozingoff.gif

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#5

Posted 29 September 2009 - 05:47 PM

Off topic: Are you sure that's the Tampa? That would be nice! Lol Rockstar must have been thinking "We'll pull the Tampa out of TLAD and keep it for TBOGT".
On topic: I don't think it has to do anything with that mission.

JOSEPH X
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#6

Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:09 PM

What I`m saying is not that Jim`s on the train, but Jim`s on a bike being chased by Luis and he`s dropping pipe bombs in the path of Luis.

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#7

Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:09 PM

I cant see to well, but I cant see Luis in the drivers seat of the Tampa, so maybe your right and Jim is driving the Tampa, Luis in Bullet, and you have to chase down and kill Jim.

Either that or there is a Luis in the drivers eat and I'm just blind.

SirPsychoSexy
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#8

Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:22 PM

There is no plothole. Niko kills Jim after chasing him by bike on the subway tracks. Jim was just not detailed when IV came out and then they decided to do a total reskin because he turned out to be a different character in TLaD than they thought he'd be when writing IV.

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#9

Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Sep 29 2009, 18:22)
There is no plothole. Niko kills Jim after chasing him by bike on the subway tracks. Jim was just not detailed when IV came out and then they decided to do a total reskin because he turned out to be a different character in TLaD than they thought he'd be when writing IV.

however, that isn't when Jim dies in TLAD. You see Jim again even after you give him and the other biker the money in the alley. You escape Ray's and then that's when Jim dies.

shinsta312
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#10

Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:45 PM Edited by shinsta312, 29 September 2009 - 06:49 PM.

QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Sep 29 2009, 12:22)
There is no plothole. Niko kills Jim after chasing him by bike on the subway tracks. Jim was just not detailed when IV came out and then they decided to do a total reskin because he turned out to be a different character in TLaD than they thought he'd be when writing IV.

In-game reports mentioned the first biker in the subway killed as Jim Fitzgerald.

Both him and that bald biker were seen in a alleyway when Johnny gave him the cash. It's the same alleyway when Niko confronted them.

It's just a simple continuity error, nothing more.

Chronologically, "Was It Worth It?" took place slightly before "No Way on the Subway" and ended around the same time. Jim didn't really get after shortly after they escaped.

Some time after Johnny and Jim escaped Drusilla's Restaurant, Ray sent Niko to go after Jim, while also sending numerous of his guys after Johnny. Depending on what you decided to do, Niko either kills Jim or Jim smashes into the oncoming train.

JOSEPH X
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#11

Posted 29 September 2009 - 06:56 PM

The best way for Rockstar to solve all plotholes and continuity errors would be to have Luis take out TLAD Jim on the subway after Was It Worth It by chasing him onto the subway. That way the report of Jim`s death still stands.

Huang Leroy
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#12

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE (shinsta312 @ Sep 29 2009, 18:45)
QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Sep 29 2009, 12:22)
There is no plothole. Niko kills Jim after chasing him by bike on the subway tracks. Jim was just not detailed when IV came out and then they decided to do a total reskin because he turned out to be a different character in TLaD than they thought he'd be when writing IV.

In-game reports mentioned the first biker in the subway killed as Jim Fitzgerald.

Both him and that bald biker were seen in a alleyway when Johnny gave him the cash. It's the same alleyway when Niko confronted them.

It's just a simple continuity error, nothing more.

Chronologically, "Was It Worth It?" took place slightly before "No Way on the Subway" and ended around the same time. Jim didn't really get after shortly after they escaped.

Some time after Johnny and Jim escaped Drusilla's Restaurant, Ray sent Niko to go after Jim, while also sending numerous of his guys after Johnny. Depending on what you decided to do, Niko either kills Jim or Jim smashes into the oncoming train.

The report said the dead biker that was identified was Jim. You think they'll be able to identify the guy who crashed into the train, had his bike explode on him, and then get dragged by the train? Chances are he was so f*cked up after that, he couldn't be identified.

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#13

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:09 PM

This could be a great find, only it sound like too much, R* Wont do such a thing, right now its already ended, niko did it to him somehow so tihs is the end.
Also, it could be a great drama and some effect of sadness if he did this to Jim on accident while Jim died (not dead) and asked for help and somehow you kill him in accident.

shinsta312
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#14

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 12:56)
The best way for Rockstar to solve all plotholes and continuity errors would be to have Luis take out TLAD Jim on the subway after Was It Worth It by chasing him onto the subway. That way the report of Jim`s death still stands.

Of course, if Jim doesn't even appear in TBOGT, the entire thing proves otherwise.

But I'm telling you, Niko was the one that killed Jim. It's right in front of your face the entire time. The physical appearance of Jim in IV was a continuity error.

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#15

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:16 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 29 September 2009 - 07:31 PM.

It also says in the news that two bikers were found dead in the subway (one being identified as Jim) and chances are the bald guy was killed by most people on the street in Dukes and not in the subway thus making the news story wrong.

Also I'm not 100% but I don't think that the spot you have marked on the map is where Jim hits the train... So either the theory doesn't check out or your mistaken about either where Jim hits the train or where them screenshots occur.

So you could be right but there isn't anything really to support your theory so you chances are your not.

JOSEPH X
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#16

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE (shinsta312 @ Sep 29 2009, 19:09)
QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 12:56)
The best way for Rockstar to solve all plotholes and continuity errors would be to have Luis take out TLAD Jim on the subway after Was It Worth It by chasing him onto the subway. That way the report of Jim`s death still stands.

Of course, if Jim doesn't even appear in TBOGT, the entire thing proves otherwise.

But I'm telling you, Niko was the one that killed Jim. It's right in front of your face the entire time. The physical appearance of Jim in IV was a continuity error.

But it would be a bit of a stupid continuity error for Rockstar to make, a totally different skin being killed in the subway by Niko...

...unless they understood this and planned Jim`s appearance in BOGT at the same time they were making TLAD, that way the bikers in the alley could be just declared nobodies.

KGBeast
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#17

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:27 PM Edited by KGBeast, 29 September 2009 - 07:33 PM.

No. Jim is killed by Niko, sorry. How people keep debating that is beyond me. Jim died in No Way on the Subway. There's no missing link there. Ray sends you to kill two bikers, two bikers die, the news reports one as Jim. Rockstar just retconned his appearance from IV to TLAD to make him more individual. However, this might be the train that is damaged under the Algonquin bridge during that mission.

However, this doesn't actually seem likely either. The pics from TBoGT is the bridge that goes from Algonquin to Bohan, Jim is hit under the Algonquin Bridge. And the tracks don't loop down into Dukes/Broker from Bohan. So, just no.

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#18

Posted 29 September 2009 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 19:16)
It also says in the news that two bikers were found dead in the subway (one being identified as Jim) and chances are the bald guy was killed by most people on the street in Dukes and not in the subway thus making the news story wrong.

Also I'm not 100% but I don't think that the spot you have marked on the map is where Jim hits the train... So either the theory doesn't check out or your mistaken about either where Jim hits the train or where them screenshots occur.

So you could be right but there isn't anything really to support your theory so you chances are your wrong.

I`m saying that Luis chases Jim in the opposite direction that Niko chases the two bikers - towards Bohan.

Also, your right about most people killing Fat Bald Biker (Jim Fitzgerald skin in the PC version) on the street and not on the track, so the two biker deaths on the subway still would stand only Jim`s body was found on the subway in Bohan

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#19

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:00 PM

It makes sences when you think about it because johny and niko both didnt get the 2 million so what happened to the money?

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#20

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE (snowman6000 @ Sep 29 2009, 20:00)
It makes sences when you think about it because johny and niko both didnt get the 2 million so what happened to the money?

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Money Over Bullshit
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#21

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 19:34)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 19:16)
It also says in the news that two bikers were found dead in the subway (one being identified as Jim) and chances are the bald guy was killed by most people on the street in Dukes and not in the subway thus making the news story wrong.

Also I'm not 100% but I don't think that the spot you have marked on the map is where Jim hits the train... So either the theory doesn't check out or your mistaken about either where Jim hits the train or where them screenshots occur.

So you could be right but there isn't anything really to support your theory so you chances are your wrong.

I`m saying that Luis chases Jim in the opposite direction that Niko chases the two bikers - towards Bohan.

Also, your right about most people killing Fat Bald Biker (Jim Fitzgerald skin in the PC version) on the street and not on the track, so the two biker deaths on the subway still would stand only Jim`s body was found on the subway in Bohan

What me and KGBeast are saying is that Jim doesn't hit the train in Bohan he hits it at the broker end of the Algonquin bridge. So as I said man you either have the wrong point on the map or its a different place in those screenshots than than the one in the mission.

JOSEPH X
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#22

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:22 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 20:15)
QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 19:34)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 19:16)
It also says in the news that two bikers were found dead in the subway (one being identified as Jim) and chances are the bald guy was killed by most people on the street in Dukes and not in the subway thus making the news story wrong.

Also I'm not 100% but I don't think that the spot you have marked on the map is where Jim hits the train... So either the theory doesn't check out or your mistaken about either where Jim hits the train or where them screenshots occur.

So you could be right but there isn't anything really to support your theory so you chances are your wrong.

I`m saying that Luis chases Jim in the opposite direction that Niko chases the two bikers - towards Bohan.

Also, your right about most people killing Fat Bald Biker (Jim Fitzgerald skin in the PC version) on the street and not on the track, so the two biker deaths on the subway still would stand only Jim`s body was found on the subway in Bohan

What me and KGBeast are saying is that Jim doesn't hit the train in Bohan he hits it at the broker end of the Algonquin bridge. So as I said man you either have the wrong point on the map or its a different place in those screenshots than than the one in the mission.

OK let me put it in much simpler terms The guy who hits the train in "No Way On The Subway" is NOT Jim Fitzgerald.

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#23

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 20:22)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 20:15)
QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 19:34)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 19:16)
It also says in the news that two bikers were found dead in the subway (one being identified as Jim) and chances are the bald guy was killed by most people on the street in Dukes and not in the subway thus making the news story wrong.

Also I'm not 100% but I don't think that the spot you have marked on the map is where Jim hits the train... So either the theory doesn't check out or your mistaken about either where Jim hits the train or where them screenshots occur.

So you could be right but there isn't anything really to support your theory so you chances are your wrong.

I`m saying that Luis chases Jim in the opposite direction that Niko chases the two bikers - towards Bohan.

Also, your right about most people killing Fat Bald Biker (Jim Fitzgerald skin in the PC version) on the street and not on the track, so the two biker deaths on the subway still would stand only Jim`s body was found on the subway in Bohan

What me and KGBeast are saying is that Jim doesn't hit the train in Bohan he hits it at the broker end of the Algonquin bridge. So as I said man you either have the wrong point on the map or its a different place in those screenshots than than the one in the mission.

OK let me put it in much simpler terms The guy who hits the train in "No Way On The Subway" is NOT Jim Fitzgerald.

There's no proof of that though. It's quite simply too much work for Rockstar to work something into Luis's story to correct an inconsistency. The Victor Vance thing is case and point.

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#24

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:52 PM

Its probably already been said, but this is way far fetched. If it is true then, wow. If not then, Huurh.

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#25

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 20:27)
QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 20:22)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 20:15)
QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 19:34)
QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 19:16)
It also says in the news that two bikers were found dead in the subway (one being identified as Jim) and chances are the bald guy was killed by most people on the street in Dukes and not in the subway thus making the news story wrong.

Also I'm not 100% but I don't think that the spot you have marked on the map is where Jim hits the train... So either the theory doesn't check out or your mistaken about either where Jim hits the train or where them screenshots occur.

So you could be right but there isn't anything really to support your theory so you chances are your wrong.

I`m saying that Luis chases Jim in the opposite direction that Niko chases the two bikers - towards Bohan.

Also, your right about most people killing Fat Bald Biker (Jim Fitzgerald skin in the PC version) on the street and not on the track, so the two biker deaths on the subway still would stand only Jim`s body was found on the subway in Bohan

What me and KGBeast are saying is that Jim doesn't hit the train in Bohan he hits it at the broker end of the Algonquin bridge. So as I said man you either have the wrong point on the map or its a different place in those screenshots than than the one in the mission.

OK let me put it in much simpler terms The guy who hits the train in "No Way On The Subway" is NOT Jim Fitzgerald.

There's no proof of that though. It's quite simply too much work for Rockstar to work something into Luis's story to correct an inconsistency. The Victor Vance thing is case and point.

Actually there is. Jim voice actor is listed in IV's credits and out of those two bikers that is suppose to be Jim, only one of them talked, which was the bald one. That and the fact that the bald biker is listed as Jim in the PC files, as Joseph said in the last page.

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#26

Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:59 PM Edited by Money Over Bullshit, 29 September 2009 - 09:18 PM.

The bald guy is also in TLAD and is a seperate person meaning that he is not Jim.
There's obviously a reason why the long haired guy dies in the subway everytime and that reason is because (despite what the credits say) it's Jim and the manner in which he dies is predetermined in order to make the news story that he was found in the subway correct every time.

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#27

Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (Money Over Bullsh*t @ Sep 29 2009, 14:59)
The bald guy is also in TLAD and is a seperate person meaning that he is not Jim.
There's obviously a reason why the long haired guy dies in the subway everytime and that reason is because (despite what the credits say) it's Jim and the manner in which he dies is predetermined.

Agreed.

What happened with Jim was right in front of you people, but some of you think there's some sort of conspiracy and all of that unnecessary bullsh*t.

Niko confronted Jim and his bald friend in the same alleyway Johnny gave the cash to Jim the mission before. Niko chased the both of them and Jim died during that chase.

The physical appearance that Jim appears in IV is a continuity error. Sure, the bald biker was listed on the PC files as Jim, but the fact that he's right beside Jim in TLAD proves that the same bald biker is not Jim.

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#28

Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (InsaneKane87 @ Sep 29 2009, 20:11)
QUOTE (snowman6000 @ Sep 29 2009, 20:00)
It makes sences when you think about it because johny and niko both didnt get the 2 million so what happened to the money?

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JOSEPH X
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#29

Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:30 PM

Soooo, how come he ended up in Drusilla`s? eh? answer that one.

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#30

Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:35 PM

QUOTE (II J0SePh X II @ Sep 29 2009, 15:30)
Soooo, how come he ended up in Drusilla`s? eh? answer that one.

He was kidnapped, in retaliation for Johnny stealing the money.




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