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[WIP|SCR] 1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria Redux

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Carface80
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#271

Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE (stratumxspb @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 20:00)
QUOTE

using extra, interesting...

ok here's the quickie...

user posted image

I hope you give me model to convert in San Andreas when it will be done.)
Great work.

Absolutely smile.gif

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#272

Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:33 PM Edited by Intensified, 16 March 2013 - 11:32 PM.

Thank you, bigfoot! And so looking forward to this Caprice.

By the way, here's some bigfoot mods action!
user posted image

GM New Look Fishbowl and Ford LTD Crown Victoria. biggrin.gif

Carface80
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#273

Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

QUOTE (Intensified @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 22:33)
Thank you, bigfoot! And so looking forward to this Caprice.

By the way, here's some bigfoot mods action!
user posted image

GM New Look Fishbowl and Ford LTD Crown Victoria. biggrin.gif

Looking sweet, are you using ice type enb? I assume enb can be toggled to default gta4 rendering.

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#274

Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

No iCEnhancer, it's an ENB I used to download somewhere a long time ago. It replaces the default graphics. smile.gif

schaefft
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#275

Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE (bigfoot2003 @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 20:36)

Are you using ENB? the white parts of the car (doors and roof area) looks a bit washed up and lose a lot of body lines, I suggest to use my body texture below ( i got 2048 resolution if you want) and blend it with your lapd colour, so the body lines shows a little better. Also if you can make the black part 10-15% lighter to simulate ambient lighting, so the body lines in the black parts shows a little better.

user posted image

I agree there, you should always put that body (AO) map over your paintjobs, as a separate layer using the "overlay" layer mode (at least thats what its called in photoshop). The bodymap gives the model more "depth" that cannot be recreated by GTAs realtime shadows or dirt. Its easy to do and doesn't require any changes to your original police texture.

Btw, did anyone ever try to fake an AO map by using the vertex color/illumination info instead of baking a texture? Thats what Rockstar did with their vehicle models and it saves tons of memory. Might be worth a try to see how its turning out.

Carface80
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#276

Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

Never tried fake AO, but it sounds like a good option. I trued baking AO on texture, but cant get the results I want, so I used final gathering and bake it.

schaefft
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#277

Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:38 AM

We have a petty nice tool at work that works like your normal texture bake tool in Max or other programs, only that it bakes the light information into the vertex illumination slot. It doesn't add any additional memory demand, it looks great on 60k tri models, even on lower polygon versions, and would be perfect for avoiding the taxi bug. Not sure if you can download a plugin for maya somewhere, but like I said, might be worth a try to reduce the memory requirements of your model massively.

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#278

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (bigfoot2003 @ Saturday, Mar 16 2013, 18:36)
user posted image

I love the way baked textures look. cool.gif

If I ever make an LTD, I'm swiping those wink.gif

Carface80
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#279

Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:29 PM Edited by bigfoot2003, 22 March 2013 - 07:33 PM.

@schaeft tried so hard to keep my WTD file. I used interior shader and I notice the specular is not present (I checked the vanilla gta4 car only have texture map. I think if I remove the bump and spec map for the interior the WTD should be smaller. Also some modded didn't realized they saved some of the texture on wft files (making their wft file bigger than it should. Hopefully I'll try to make the caprice more optimal.

@burner thanks, feel free to use the texture or model of you need to (converting it to grand marquis or country squire smile.gif

schaefft
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#280

Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:15 AM

QUOTE (bigfoot2003 @ Friday, Mar 22 2013, 21:29)
@schaeft tried so hard to keep my WTD file. I used interior shader and I notice the specular is not present (I checked the vanilla gta4 car only have texture map. I think if I remove the bump and spec map for the interior the WTD should be smaller. Also some modded didn't realized they saved some of the texture on wft files (making their wft file bigger than it should. Hopefully I'll try to make the caprice more optimal.

I didn't know you could save textures in the .wft files? I decided to start modeling that Olds Aurora I was talking about the other day. Im trying to keep the polycount below 50k tris for LOD0 and try to reduce LOD1 as much as possible. Also, Ill use GTA IVs textures for the tires, underbody and possibly the glass and use the rest of the textures as efficiently as possible to reduce draw calls. I hope I can keep both file sizes below 1Mb like that, not sure what else, apart from the vertex count, is defining the .wft filesize though. UV channels, material counts,...?

Also, I hope you can re-release your '91/93 Caprices and DTS once you figure out how to optimize them. biggrin.gif

Carface80
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#281

Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE (schaefft @ Monday, Mar 25 2013, 11:15)
QUOTE (bigfoot2003 @ Friday, Mar 22 2013, 21:29)
@schaeft tried so hard to keep my WTD file. I used interior shader and I notice the specular is not present (I checked the vanilla gta4 car only have texture map. I think if I remove the bump and spec map for the interior the WTD should be smaller. Also some modded didn't realized they saved some of the texture on wft files (making their wft file bigger than it should. Hopefully I'll try to make the caprice more optimal.

I didn't know you could save textures in the .wft files? I decided to start modeling that Olds Aurora I was talking about the other day. Im trying to keep the polycount below 50k tris for LOD0 and try to reduce LOD1 as much as possible. Also, Ill use GTA IVs textures for the tires, underbody and possibly the glass and use the rest of the textures as efficiently as possible to reduce draw calls. I hope I can keep both file sizes below 1Mb like that, not sure what else, apart from the vertex count, is defining the .wft filesize though. UV channels, material counts,...?

Also, I hope you can re-release your '91/93 Caprices and DTS once you figure out how to optimize them. biggrin.gif

When you are about to export the car into wft file, a windows pops out asks where you want to save it. Just look below and there are some check boxes, one if them is saving the texture. This features is fairly limited to the size of textures.

schaefft
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#282

Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:09 AM Edited by schaefft, 28 March 2013 - 11:13 AM.

After downloading openIV and finally being able to edit wdt files (only took 5 years tounge.gif ) I noticed a couple of common problems. If you ignore the the sometimes insane texture resolutions and counts, a lot of people do not realise that the DXT1 compression is more than enough for a normal texture without alpha channel. DXT3 is for textures with tranparency that do not require an 8bit alpha channel (its for a 1 bit alphas - only black and white like badges). Only textures like windows or transparent lights should use the DXT5 compression. Everything else will just inflate the wdt file size and cause trouble ingame.

Also, you do not have to enable mipmaps on any textures except when they are always clearly visible from a farish distance and have a lot of contrast in them. It doesnt make sense to give interior/engine textures mipmaps, you will never see them from far away, and it doesnt make sense to give a texture a mipmap that is actually just 1 color (like black, glass, chrome and whatever stuff people are using). Mipmaps increase the texture size by about 30%, without adding visual quality.

After fixing all this and reducing the resolution of some texture to a reasonable size I was able to reduce the .wdt file sizes of almost all the cars in my game to about 500kb or well below. Thats pretty close to the original vehicles. I could have reduced the number of draw calls required by 1 vehicle by merging a couple of smaller textures to one bigger one, but that would have required the adjustment of some UVs and I dont have a registered version of Zmodeler2.

But the great news is, use your textures sensible and you will get a great looking car thats not destroying GTA IVs memory management.

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#283

Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:51 PM Edited by bigfoot2003, 29 March 2013 - 05:07 PM.

QUOTE (schaefft @ Thursday, Mar 28 2013, 11:09)
After downloading openIV and finally being able to edit wdt files (only took 5 years tounge.gif ) I noticed a couple of common problems. If you ignore the the sometimes insane texture resolutions and counts, a lot of people do not realise that the DXT1 compression is more than enough for a normal texture without alpha channel. DXT3 is for textures with tranparency that do not require an 8bit alpha channel (its for a 1 bit alphas - only black and white like badges). Only textures like windows or transparent lights should use the DXT5 compression. Everything else will just inflate the wdt file size and cause trouble ingame.

Also, you do not have to enable mipmaps on any textures except when they are always clearly visible from a farish distance and have a lot of contrast in them. It doesnt make sense to give interior/engine textures mipmaps, you will never see them from far away, and it doesnt make sense to give a texture a mipmap that is actually just 1 color (like black, glass, chrome and whatever stuff people are using). Mipmaps increase the texture size by about 30%, without adding visual quality.

After fixing all this and reducing the resolution of some texture to a reasonable size I was able to reduce the .wdt file sizes of almost all the cars in my game to about 500kb or well below. Thats pretty close to the original vehicles. I could have reduced the number of draw calls required by 1 vehicle by merging a couple of smaller textures to one bigger one, but that would have required the adjustment of some UVs and I dont have a registered version of Zmodeler2.

But the great news is, use your textures sensible and you will get a great looking car thats not destroying GTA IVs memory management.



Thanks for advice, it will be helpful for my Caprice smile.gif

I used to do that approach you mention on vice city cars, because I am too lazy making fancy textures. Now, my goal with the caprice is 1mb or much less. Using the same approach on LTD and DTS is impossible, in addition it makes multiple interior colours difficult. Now looks I am trying to do layer texture system with 2 uv maps. the first layers are just simple textures maps and models will share as many textures as possible, the second layer is the shadows and shades then i blend it (not sure it will work on gta4)

I may have to use GTA4 textures more.

I am aware that textures can be compressed, but but haven't figured it out for gta4 (there was some txd editor in vice city can do it ages ago), probably I like compressing them on less visible areas (undercarriage) Hopefully I lay the UV more efficient this time, emphasizing on more resolution on visible areas.


I spent some time chipping the size on LTD, so 1.3mb is not tragically huge compared to other cars with 6mb wtd files. The police version I may have to reduce the texture further since police equipments dragged the poly count to 70,000.

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#284

Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:42 AM

Insanely good looking, realistic model and well optimized - that is a very rare thing! Well done!

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#285

Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

Lil' preview. smile.gif

user posted image

And yeah, Carface, I added those detail textures overlayed my livery and 90% transparent. Indeed looks a lot more realistic. smile.gif

Carface80
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#286

Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:06 PM

@intensified nice!

Schaeft mentioned that many default gta4 cars used some kind of shadowing texture on gta4, i wonder what the name of the texture...for curiosity I may have to dig in openiv texture data.

CHILLI
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#287

Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

I havent read the last few posts, so forgive me if I've missed anything.
But what Schaefft mentioned was vertex colors for faked AO, not textures. If you want an example look behind the number plate on the sultan, it's pretty much pitch black in-game when shadowed and that's done through vertex colors.

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#288

Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:48 PM

QUOTE (bigfoot2003 @ Saturday, Mar 30 2013, 16:06)
@intensified nice!

Schaeft mentioned that many default gta4 cars used some kind of shadowing texture on gta4, i wonder what the name of the texture...for curiosity I may have to dig in openiv texture data.

Thanks a lot, man!

Oh, and you've mentioned something about a Caprice project and what options you will use or something. That discussion with Schaefft. Is that about the late 80s Caprice? Because I am very looking forward to that mod! I just love classics and General Motors. smile.gif

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#289

Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

beautiful machine sir' icon14.gif icon14.gif icon14.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif biggrin.gif

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#290

Posted 31 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

Here you go guys smile.gif

http://www.gta4-mods...-nyc-bas-f20718

or

http://www.gta-moddi...ased/index.html


By the way, Carface, I broke my own amount of downloads record with your Caprice, man! We did it! biggrin.gif
Link: http://www.gta-moddi...ecord/#post1473

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#291

Posted 31 March 2013 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (Intensified @ Sunday, Mar 31 2013, 14:09)
Here you go guys smile.gif

http://www.gta4-mods...-nyc-bas-f20718

or

http://www.gta-moddi...ased/index.html


By the way, Carface, I broke my own amount of downloads record with your Caprice, man! We did it! biggrin.gif
Link: http://www.gta-moddi...ecord/#post1473

You did it again bro, and in just few hours, with the LTD taxi! colgate.gif

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#292

Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:32 AM Edited by schaefft, 02 April 2013 - 01:52 PM.

QUOTE (CHILLI @ Saturday, Mar 30 2013, 18:56)
I havent read the last few posts, so forgive me if I've missed anything.
But what Schaefft mentioned was vertex colors for faked AO, not textures. If you want an example look behind the number plate on the sultan, it's pretty much pitch black in-game when shadowed and that's done through vertex colors.

Ah alright, we are using the vertex color data for something else at work, but its basically exactly the same as vertex illumination. Every 3D package (except Zmodeler2 probably) should have the tools to bake light information into the vertex color slot. If not, use xNormal (which is free, everyone baking normalmaps should have it anyway) Our models are detailed enough to use this instead of a baked AO texture. It doesnt increase the .wft file size if done right and you get the same result without the need for a 512 or even 1024px AO texture map. You dont even have to unwrap your mesh. Also people cant f*ck it up by painting over it biggrin.gif

Heres how you do it in Max:

http://www.polycount...ead.php?t=51574

Just google for "baking vertex color "...", the dots should be the 3D program you are using.

EDIT: Alright, forget baking it with Xnormal for now, it messes up the smoothing groups. Do it in Max or Maya.

You can edit the texture compression in openIV if you didnt set it up right when exporting the texture (using Nvidias .dds exporter for photoshop for example). But I am not talking about compression by using less texture space, its the texture compression reducing the texture file size that it often the reason for too large wdt file sizes. Use DXT1 for textures without alpha channel, DXT3 for textures that only use black and white in the alpha channel and DXT5 for textures with more than black/white in the alpha channel.


And just a random question, GTA IVs dirt maps are using the 2nd UV channel, right?

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#293

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:04 AM

I dont have the tools to import/export GTA models but I'd imagine so because the dirt can stick on top of pretty much anything (even interiors?).
If I'm not mistaken the circular thingy in the middle of the wheels on the Ruiner gets dirt on it aswell as the rest of the wheels, and it seems logical to me to make it "secondary".

What do you use the vertex data for at work btw?

schaefft
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#294

Posted 03 April 2013 - 09:24 AM Edited by schaefft, 03 April 2013 - 10:04 AM.

Heres a better explanation for baking AO data into the verts. I used Max' radiosity method which worked quite well, just needs a little tweaking:

http://wiki.polycoun...sionVertexColor

Chilli: We bake our pre-modeled damage model into the vertex colors and use the vertex illumination for AO or for the transparency on glass and lights. I wont tell more though, the project is not released yet and I am not allowed to share any game related info (that hasn't been shown yet). wink.gif

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#295

Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:49 PM

Sounds like some nice usage of old bits of tech. Will be interesting to see what you guys are working on.
Anyway, is this too much offtopic?

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#296

Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:34 AM

@intensified Wow good to hear you're about your record breaking downloads, congratulation!! cool.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif the discussion is still applicable to LTD because the discussion started with an attempt to reduce the WTD size, I may perform vertex shading on zmod2 (potetially no fun)

@schaefft That clears up a bit, I found some tutorial on Maya, I assumed the vertex shading information are stored in the model file? If so, the only thing im concerned if the vertrex shading data will remained during the conversion process, I have to save it to OBJ then convert it to 3ds then Z3d. Goggling around and found this discussion http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=230700 sounds like a tedious work.

@CHILI No off topic here biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif Still relevant because it all started with optimizing the WTD file, so a little too late for the LTD (unless I performed the painting the vertex shading on Zmod 2)



There's a tutorial on AO on zmod3 not sure it has the ability to bake in the model (didt watch the whole clip yet)

schaefft
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#297

Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:57 AM

Well, all vertex data should be saved in .obj and .3ds formats. I just hope that Zmodeler can interpret this data and wont f*ck it up. Because one thing is for sure, I won't bake it in Zmodeler. I started working in it yesterday and its just a pita to do simple things like selecting polygons, I didnt even manage to move things in the viewport. Just horrible. I will prepare the model in max as far as possible, export it as .3ds hoping it will keep the smoothing groups and vertex colors and just apply the materials, create the hierarchy and export it in Zmodeler. Everything else would just make it worse.

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#298

Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

So that is why your models look so good, Carface...
Is there any tutorial for this for ZModeler2? I'd love to learn this.

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#299

Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:28 PM

@schaefft same with me, I only used zmod just to prep the cars for export, last time I modeled in zmod is back in 2004 that's long long time ago.

@Intensified Lots of practice. Study other people's model, examine how the wire frame flows through the car's body line. There are some Driver SF cars you can download and studied. You need lots of reference photos, multiple angles, close ups...even better having an access to a real car you intended to model with a good camera. Good zmodeler tutorial found here http://www.zmodeler2...eparements.html

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#300

Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:31 PM

@Carface.bigfoot2003;

I work a lot on your lovely models, so I know how a true artists works. Good work!
Any progress on the 80s Caprice, aka the ''box Caprice''?




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