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Ziggy455
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#3751

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

QUOTE (Eminence @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:43)
Okay, but let's say they do read books, and they have read Harry Potter, and they love it, and they could talk to you all day about its characters and themes and symbolism.

What then?

Heck, then I can have an intellectual conversation about a good story that I like. I find those conversations deeply enriching.

Fyodor Dostoevsky, Clive Barker, Hunter S. Thompson, Stephen King, Iain Levison, Mark Twain, Poe, Lovecraft, Chandler, and f*cking Philip K. God-damn Dick all are in my head and heart. inlove.gif

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#3752

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:46 PM

Ah. So your issue wasn't with Harry Potter, but was with the notion of latching onto it to try and fit in. Fair enough. tounge.gif

Ziggy455
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#3753

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

QUOTE (Eminence @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:46)
Ah. So your issue wasn't with Harry Potter, but was with the notion of latching onto it to try and fit in. Fair enough. tounge.gif

Yeah! It's the popular novels that people claim to love but the second I mention Chandler, or even Twain; dirty looks ensue. It's like you're outcasted half the time where I live for reading. My town's like the one from Footloose, only it's books, not dancing. sly.gif

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#3754

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

I greatly enjoyed a lot of the Harry Potter series but felt that it dealt too much in moral absolutes. More, it's central point about the 'power' of love was all a bit hokey.
Rowling's problem with the series was that her central antagonist was underwhelming.
Secondary villains like Fenrir Greyback or Rufus Scrimgeour were infinitely more menacing in their small appearances than Voldemort - who was never humanised and never appeared 'real' in the way the other characters were.

At the end, facing his doom, he maintains his bizarre, haughty speech-pattern - it's indicative of the problem with his character through the whole series. He's not been humanised, so you can't understand why people would follow him.

Tyler
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#3755

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:49 PM

Not even lying though, I read all the Harry Potter books (that were published at the time) in a period of like 3 weeks at school. I got a party for the class from it because my teacher was so impressed. This was like first grade or whatever so it was all good, macking on the cupcakes and watching Herbie with the bitches.

Also, Mark Twain is what got me into reading and writing. He's one of the greatest Americans out there, and deserves all the praise he gets, and more.

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#3756

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:52 PM

QUOTE (Tyler @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:49)
Also, Mark Twain is what got me into reading and writing. He's one of the greatest Americans out there, and deserves all the praise he gets, and more.

I read Tom Sawyer some years back and agree. His style was refreshingly informal for its day, giving it that timeless quality that allows his work to be picked up by any reader of any generation.
The fact that I cared little for the story itself doesn't diminish the skill of his authorship.

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#3757

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:57 PM Edited by orbitalraindrops, 13 April 2013 - 09:02 PM.

My brother said that the most unrealistic thing about Harry Potter wasn't the magic but the fact that Hermione gets with Ron.

The underdog irl very rarely comes out on top imo and not all underdogs are victims struggling through trials and tribulations as they are commonly shown. Alot of people I know who fit the "underdog" mould are very volatile people.

I refer you to my favourite quote of all time.

"You are Miserable because you are Malicious"
"No you are Malicious because you are Miserable"

I heard Brian Aldiss say it at Cheltenham Literature festival a while back (Never read any of his work but my Dad is a big fan and he took me along)

I think the first part of the quote comes from the bible and the second part was in Frankenstein somewhere.

Ziggy455
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#3758

Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

QUOTE (orbitalraindrops @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:57)
My brother said that the most unrealistic thing about Harry Potter wasn't the magic but the fact that Hermione gets with Ron.

Sum'bitch has gotten his head screwed on tight. It just wouldn't happen in real life!

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#3759

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:58)
QUOTE (orbitalraindrops @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:57)
My brother said that the most unrealistic thing about Harry Potter wasn't the magic but the fact that Hermione gets with Ron.

Sum'bitch has gotten his head screwed on tight. It just wouldn't happen in real life!

True, maybe JK made it like that so that everyone gets love, not just pretty people. smile.gif

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#3760

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:10 PM

There was no sense of loss in the story. Harry won but never had to compromise his morality, he came out of the whole thing as some Christ-like, self-sacrificing demigod.
I don't think I've ever written about a 'hero' because I've yet to see evidence of any human being motivated beyond self interest. Being selfless and being perceived as selfless are two very different thing.
More, to actually win a war requires you to be a crueller, colder, more evil person than your enemy - yet Harry's moral absolutism is proven right at every turn. No hard decisions are made and so nothing is really sacrificed.
It's all a bit hokey.

Ziggy455
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#3761

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:20 PM

QUOTE (Typhus @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 21:10)
There was no sense of loss in the story. Harry won but never had to compromise his morality, he came out of the whole thing as some Christ-like, self-sacrificing demigod.
I don't think I've ever written about a 'hero' because I've yet to see evidence of any human being motivated beyond self interest. Being selfless and being perceived as selfless are two very different thing.
More, to actually win a war requires you to be a crueller, colder, more evil person than your enemy - yet Harry's moral absolutism is proven right at every turn. No hard decisions are made and so nothing is really sacrificed.
It's all a bit hokey.

I like to see character's change. I like seeing them become a by-product of their experience. I feel like a fool for linking this to gaming but I love seeing the evolution. Harry was too goody-goody, and in life, people like that don't exist. Max Payne shifts in Max Payne 3 from an alcoholic who's half-suicidal to a guy who drops the booze and steps up to the events that are happening to him. In The Stand, the character's must make choices that leave us questioning them as characters at points, and in the end, you have to make judgments based on those actions.

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#3762

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:58)
QUOTE (orbitalraindrops @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:57)
My brother said that the most unrealistic thing about Harry Potter wasn't the magic but the fact that Hermione gets with Ron.

Sum'bitch has gotten his head screwed on tight. It just wouldn't happen in real life!

I always thought Ron & Hermione were perfect for one another. One enjoys the simpler things in life, & the other enjoys the more intellectual things. They balance each other out.

Ziggy455
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#3763

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:29 PM

QUOTE
No hard decisions are made and so nothing is really sacrificed.


I like the books but I too felt like there was no real loss. In the end, there was a lot of revelations but the characters remain the same. Same with a lot of new fiction I'm afraid. Even older fiction focuses on the development of characters through events.

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#3764

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:41 PM

Frankly, I can't stand Harry Potter. You guys, you got no life.

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#3765

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:46 PM

user posted image

Mokrie Dela
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#3766

Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Eminence @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 20:31)
QUOTE (Typhus @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 21:28)
If there is a bias, I think it's part of a wider anti-intellectual issue in our society. It's like you're expected to enjoy things but pay NO attention to them. And if you do, if you think about symbolism or characterisation you've 'got no life'.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

I sort of do, but also don't.

I think that for sure trying to spark up a conversation on the deeper meanings of any given artistic form will draw blank looks from a lot of - if not the majority - of people.

But on the flip side, I think it would be a minority that would chastise you for it, saying anything like you've 'got no life'. I don't think I've ever seen that sort of reaction, to be honest.

I think you've just identified where my craft is lacking. I have never discussed the themes and characters etc in a book. There's no one to do that with. Even on forums its too slow to have a truely receive conversation, ill always over think it and not learn anything.

To add to the comic discussion, I feel it's a little like (wait for it) fan fiction - another medium some like and some hate. Many see them as 'lesser' but as watchmen was mentioned, there were a lot of dark adult themes, and even batman i feel could be psychoanalysed - theyre all developed as much as any novel but their chosen vehicle carries some stigma with it - a lot of people view comics as books with pretty picture for kids and graphic novels also

I'm workin on two projects ATM that, If I could in life pictures, would make telling the story so much easier, but anyone who's seen my Thames City o assassins creed concepts will see I suck at drawing people. Maps I'm good at, people, no.

Such misconceptions may be in our minds of course and neither is any less legitimate (apart from erotica*)
In this brainless culture, where very few can discuss the intricacies of novels, I think comics and graphic novels are simply more accessible. Like watching a film compared to reading a book. It's just easier, but ultimately is it any less satisfying?

* that's a joke

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#3767

Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

Well, you can always discuss characters and themes with me. And it seems a few other folks here share my enthusiasm.
Why don't you tell us about some of your characters? We can have a brainstorming session smile.gif

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#3768

Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 21:52)
Even on forums its too slow to have a truely receive conversation, ill always over think it and not learn anything.

GTAF Writers Discussion Skype Chat?

Could be epic,


EDIT: I will chat anytime I'm online, just inbox me or add me on skype: nathan.zayne

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#3769

Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (Mokrie Dela @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 22:52)
To add to the comic discussion, I feel it's a little like (wait for it) fan fiction - another medium some like and some hate.

Haha, you always draw it back to fan fiction! tounge.gif

I see what you're saying about the love/hate thing. There's a fundamental thing that you have to realise, though:

The reason why so many people discourage fan-fiction, or why it comes attached to this stigma of it being a 'lesser' type of work, is that it is not professional. This is not a debate. You cannot sell fan-fiction. You do not own its copyright. It is not, to a certain degree, your original work.

That's why there comes a point, for any writer with serious aspirations, where you have to sit up, take notice of this fact, and move on from it.

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#3770

Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE (Eminence @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 22:18)
You cannot sell fan-fiction. You do not own its copyright. It is not, to a certain degree, your original work.

But still it does count for something, you can't get it published if it is on the forum anyway, see I don't want to be published because I don't want the world to read my literary sh*t. If I develop as a writer then maybe but if someone said to me now, "Do you want to be published?" I would say no, I feel it takes a lot for someone to become a writer. There is not a point in getting published if you are not making your novel well written. #50Shades lol tounge.gif

But you guys have hope, you can get published. Easy. You have the skill and imagination to get published. Really, it is a matter of choice after all this is a GTAForum, so there must be some fan fiction.

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#3771

Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:59 PM Edited by GTA-King, 13 April 2013 - 11:09 PM.

I agree about fan-fiction not being original. It's based off someone else's work, only a few new ideas. My first story was a fan-fiction yes, but to me... it was the gateway to strong interest in writing in general. I put alot of hard work into my story. I was not only trying to impress my readers, but my self too. That's where the whole medal thing comes in... wanting to have something to look at and say "I earned this." My methods of achieving it are frowned upon, but please know I wasn't trying to sh*t on anyone. I was just eager to impress everyone, & myself.

Because of my choices, I have become the villain of this section. I don't want that. I never did. But some of you pushed me there. I honestly want to get along so I can contribute & learn more from you guys. My current story (something original) is shaping up pretty nicely. I have been getting alot of ideas on how to words things, indent, punctuation, ect. from your guys' stories. I admit I have not read any of them (yet), but I draw alot of things from them. But anyway, I want to put all this behind and us and try & at least be acquaintances. If not, I completely understand. I honestly respect you guys, & I want to continue to learn from you. I am a huge story junkie! Shifty41s_beerhatsmilie2.gif

It's just not in my nature to hold grudges...

@Zig: I apologise for all the sh*t I've caused, man. You probably hate me the most. I will just say that you are completely right. I can be an egotistical c*nt... but I have alot of pride. So I hope you can forgive that unfavourable trait I have... because I think a 2nd chance would be nothing more than a great thing. Up to you though, man. icon14.gif

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#3772

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:03 PM Edited by Ziggy455, 13 April 2013 - 11:07 PM.

No.

Personally I think you've just started to realize that you're not getting the attention you want, and thus, you're now attempting some half-ass attempt at an apology. Nice try, but you've proven yourself to be too much of a spineless, gutless, coward. Feel free to keep posting, just don't expect me to ever reply to any of your sh*t. Ever. You're too late to apologize to me. As for the others, feel free to grovel.

EDIT: You know what's funny? I really didn't expect any sort of reply from you. But seriously, now we've spent the whole evening ignoring every reply you've put here, I've realized that everybody I have spoken to was right. Without the attention, you falter. You attempted to chime in again like you did before -a tactic that was both cheap and sly- and in return, you've come back with a grovelling apology to what? Make us change our minds? Do you want a pat on the back? Do you want a f*cking medal? Oh wait, no, you already got that. Feel free to call me cutthroat or ignorant, but you had your chance to apologize, but no, you acted like a fool, and for that, you're not getting any second chances from me.

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#3773

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:03)
No.

Personally I think you've just started to realize that you're not getting the attention you want, and thus, you're now attempting some half-ass attempt at an apology. Nice try, but you've proven yourself to be too much of a spineless, gutless, coward. Feel free to keep posting, just don't expect me to ever reply to any of your sh*t. Ever. You're too late to apologize to me. As for the others, feel free to grovel.

I'm really sorry you feel that way, because I was being completely honest & sincere. If only you could realise I didn't say all that for attention...

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#3774

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:07 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:03)
No.

Personally I think you've just started to realize that you're not getting the attention you want, and thus, you're now attempting some half-ass attempt at an apology. Nice try, but you've proven yourself to be too much of a spineless, gutless, coward. Feel free to keep posting, just don't expect me to ever reply to any of your sh*t. Ever. You're too late to apologize to me. As for the others, feel free to grovel.

Zigs - We both know he is a massive c*nt but lets just give him a small chance, for all we know. He might not be such a c*nt after all. smile.gif

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#3775

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:09 PM Edited by Ziggy455, 13 April 2013 - 11:14 PM.

QUOTE (VProductions @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:07)
QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:03)
No.

Personally I think you've just started to realize that you're not getting the attention you want, and thus, you're now attempting some half-ass attempt at an apology. Nice try, but you've proven yourself to be too much of a spineless, gutless, coward. Feel free to keep posting, just don't expect me to ever reply to any of your sh*t. Ever. You're too late to apologize to me. As for the others, feel free to grovel.

Zigs - We both know he is a massive c*nt but lets just give him a small chance, for all we know. He might not be such a c*nt after all. smile.gif

Like I said, everybody can do what they like, I'm no dictator. I won't turn on you all if you agree to keep discussing things with him. As far as I go, he's a cheat, and he's a liar. I don't mind if you all become best buds, but don't expect me to help somebody who's pissed in my face.

QUOTE
But some of you pushed me there.


You pushed yourself there with your choices, please, for 4325823854385th time. Realize that this was YOUR doing. Not ours. And for the last time, continue to learn here, just don't expect any talks from me. You f*cked things up for yourself. If you didn't do everything that you did. If you'd have shut the f*ck up and maybe acted like an adult, things would have been different. But you didn't and they're not. So keep doing what you're doing.

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#3776

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:12 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:09)
QUOTE (VProductions @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:07)
QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:03)
No.

Personally I think you've just started to realize that you're not getting the attention you want, and thus, you're now attempting some half-ass attempt at an apology. Nice try, but you've proven yourself to be too much of a spineless, gutless, coward. Feel free to keep posting, just don't expect me to ever reply to any of your sh*t. Ever. You're too late to apologize to me. As for the others, feel free to grovel.

Zigs - We both know he is a massive c*nt but lets just give him a small chance, for all we know. He might not be such a c*nt after all. smile.gif

Like I said, everybody can do what they like, I'm no dictator. I won't turn on you all if you agree to keep discussing things with him. As far as I go, he's a cheat, and he's a liar. I don't mind if you all become best buds, but don't expect me to help somebody who's pissed in my face.

I completely understand. I brought this on myself. I'm not saying we will be best buds, but I would like to show you & everyone else there's more to me than meets the eye.

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#3777

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:09)
he's a cheat, and he's a liar

Hmmmmmm, you have a point there.

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#3778

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE (VProductions @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:14)
QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Saturday, Apr 13 2013, 23:09)
he's a cheat, and he's a liar

Hmmmmmm, you have a point there.

I may be a cheat, but I certainly ain't a liar.

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#3779

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:25 PM

"I only reminded the people who liked my story." - GTA-King

Damn, so most of the forum liked your story did they?

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#3780

Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:27 PM Edited by Ziggy455, 13 April 2013 - 11:30 PM.

QUOTE
I completely understand. I brought this on myself. I'm not saying we will be best buds, but I would like to show you & everyone else there's more to me than meets the eye.


This is the last post I'm going to put on this. Seriousy. But allow me to enlighten you as to why I seem to have such a grudge. Do you mind? Nah, you won't mind. Like water off a duck's back, I'm sure this won't hit your psyche as hard I'd like to think.

You see, the medal business? The "campaigning" you did? That was a sh*tty move. The whole idea of getting your work out there is to let people read it and like it. People read a lot of Stephen Kings work because he writes good stories. Mokrie has written two fanfics- has he ever ushered a single "capaign"? Not really. You see, Stephen King doesn't go knocking on doors saying "READ MY BOOK!" and before you say "I only PMed people who read my story!" No, you didn't. You PMed some people that were so turned off by your PM "campaign" that they in turn PMed me once they'd seen how irritated I'd gotten.

Okay. After this business, I revered you with some sort of disrespect, because you literally became an arrogant douche who continued to taunt people with your medal. Check out your V topic! It's f*cking littered with your little digs. Now, after all of that -and you know that everybody thinks you're a cock- you stroll in Social Club and begin adding (like you did tonight) little comments that had no real intellectual basis, you were just trying to get a reaction from me because you knew I'd give you one. And in turn, I called you a c*nt - And as clever as that was, you ran to Girish like a little baby and -just as I can imagine- with big tears in your dilated eyes; you literally gave off the image that you just wanted a nice little intellectual chat- when in fact, you did what you did for a reaction, and in turn, I got a 2 day temp ban.

NOW.

You tried the same thing tonight. You started chiming in with pointless comments just to get another reaction. But if you skim back from the start of this discussion, you've realized NOBODY is talking to you. Nobody wants to talk to you. Everybody's stopped acknowledging your existence!

And just like I've said, that attention you thrive on, is gone. And with it you've realized that you're not as untouchable as you think you are. So no, no, King. Let's no let bygones be bygones. It's not even WD anymore, quite literally, nobody likes you King, and the only people that show any sort of recognition for your work was the V kids (and boy, don't we all know how smart they are!). And where were they when we were trying to tell you, you were wrong. You didn't care. You just kept up with your trolling, and now you think this apology will change anything.

I know there's more here than meets the eye. I've seen it. You're a spineless, gutless, sneaky, sell-out who'd sell his soul as long as his skin was saved. And you could have apologized before you caused all this, but you didn't. You continued to try and get reactions. I'm DONE with this. And I'm done with you - I don't want to see your next piece of sh*t story, I don't wanna be acquainted with you. How about you continue to do what you like, and I'll continue to not give a f*ck? Sound fair?

I was quick to insult you, I apologize for that. But either way, it doesn't change the fact you've shown your true colors when the heat rises.




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