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Leone's future.

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Master of San Andreas
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#31

Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (Zee @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 10:54)
The GTA Wikia is bullsh*t. Full of misinfo and half finished articles. GTAWiki is so much better it's insane. No wonder R* themselves have said they use GTAWiki for reference.

Anyhow, there's no way that mansions supposed to Sal's.

It's in Alderney, which is New Jersey. Sal's mansion is in St.Marks which is supposed to be Brooklyn.

Myth busted.

Zee The Myth Buster! lol.gif lol.gif


yes grandtheftwiki is absouletly stupid gtawiki for sure! smile.gif cookie.gif

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#32

Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (Zee @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 20:54)
Wikia is bullsh*t. Full of misinfo and half finished articles. GTAWiki is so much better it's insane.

Zee that doesn't make any sense. GTAWiki is Wikia. dozingoff.gif

Master of San Andreas
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#33

Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (lzw3 @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 10:59)
QUOTE (Zee @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 20:54)
Wikia is bullsh*t. Full of misinfo and half finished articles. GTAWiki is so much better it's insane.

Zee that doesn't make any sense. GTAWiki is Wikia. dozingoff.gif

Actually he meant GrandTheftWiki biggrin.gif

Linc.
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#34

Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (Master of San Andreas @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 21:00)
QUOTE (lzw3 @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 10:59)
QUOTE (Zee @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 20:54)
Wikia is bullsh*t. Full of misinfo and half finished articles. GTAWiki is so much better it's insane.

Zee that doesn't make any sense. GTAWiki is Wikia. dozingoff.gif

Actually he meant GrandTheftWiki biggrin.gif

Actually I have the feeling the was bashing GTAWiki and saying that Grand Theft Wiki is the decent one, he would be incorrect in saying that.

The people from Grand Theft Wiki are the original admins from GTAWiki Zee.

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#35

Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:18 AM

grand theft wiki is leauges better than the other shoddy one.

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#36

Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:21 AM

QUOTE (Zee @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 21:18)
grand theft wiki is leauges better than the other shoddy one.

Elaborate.

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#37

Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

The Leone's Must've Gotten 10 Times Weaker After Sal's Death And Disbanded Due to Losing too A War With the Diablo's and the Triads, After All during the Events of GTA3 The Leone's Are At War with the Triads

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#38

Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE (lzw3 @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 12:47)
QUOTE
Have you actually read your answer. People are making pages like Wikia, it's not like this page can exist on it's own and create new articles.

Maybe you should be the one re-reading what you've written, that sentence makes no sense whatsoever. People don't make pages like Wikia. Wikia is the organisation that hosts the wikis you half-wit.
QUOTE
(boo f*cking hoo, it brought a tear to my eye)

I'm glad you are concerned for our wellbeing.
QUOTE
I am not saying that GTW doesn't have any bullsh*t in it's articles, but it's not spreading false info as often as Wikia.

That's because GTW gets nowhere near as much exposed or users as GTAWiki does. If you type in a character from any video game most likely the first result on Google will be a wiki page.
QUOTE
And Wikia is the source of all these bigfoots, ratmen, false references and other "myths".

Ha! You could not be further from the f*cking truth. It's mainly forums and boards that spread this kind of bullsh*t.

I'm going to clear that, but judging by your ability to understand I'm may be pointless.

I am refering to Wikia as one particular wikia page, since were not interested in Sleeping Dogs Wikia or any other. For me GTAWikia = Wikia. I don't care about organisation or anything else. And do you really want deny the fact that people are creating wikia pages like GTAWikia. Or maybe you want to convince me that articles are spawning during the night and are written by gnomes? It's more than clear that people will be coming up with some ridiculous theories, but it's admin's job to clear any false information. If Admins are letting false information to stay there and spread further it means they not doing their job and should be replaced with better ones.

Wikia is located in higher positions than GTWiki, but it means it should be well administrated. Page that got good position in Google, but it's spreading false info is worth no more than sh*t. Admins should be super sensory for any kind of crap put in any of the articles.

Myths and theories may found their source on forums, but if page like Wikia is letting this bullsh*t into their articles, false information will be spreading faster than AIDS in Africa. Which lead us again to point about admins.

I'm not gonna write anything more on that topic, because it may lead this thread to be locked. Back to topic about Leone's future.

Linc.
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#39

Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Tycek @ Monday, Sep 24 2012, 22:51)
And do you really want deny the fact that people are creating wikia pages like GTAWikia. Or maybe you want to convince me that articles are spawning during the night and are written by gnomes?

I know you're not going to reply but this bit really ticked me off as this is exactly what I said in the first place. These kinds of articles ARE written by complete f*cking idiots that represent about 10% of the users on Wikia. I'm amazed you failed to understand that earlier, as I put it in plain words that would be easy enough for even you to understand.

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#40

Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

After Salvatore's death there was a meeting between the capos to decide who's gonna be the next boss. Joey tried to take the position but Toni, who was voted to be boss, had him killed. They managed to track down and kill Claude and business went on as usual.

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#41

Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:07 AM

^ If you make up stories at least take in consideration all the facts. Rockstar have said that Claude is still alive today, so no, he was not killed.

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#42

Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:13 AM

In my mind he was.

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#43

Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

Even if he's dead, he got killed by the Zaibatsu killers - and even then that is Claude from GTA2 Movie. So it may appear that in the III era he's still alive.

You see, that's why I hate ambiguities Rockstar tends to create. If they, at least once, told everything the way it is, we would at least know where to speculate, if there would remain any need at all.

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#44

Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:44 AM

You don't know if he dies in the movie.

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#45

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Arsen Vitiuk @ Wednesday, Sep 26 2012, 00:40)
Even if he's dead...

... I thought I said that clearly enough that he is possibly not dead... But I agree, this phrase is sometimes so hard to understand...

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#46

Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:50 AM

The Leone's are done in Liberty City, for sure. When I was 11 in 2001 i respected the Leones and figured there would always be swift retribution to Claude for Sals death. But, after playing LCS and nothing happening to CJ in San Andreas, I realized how weak the Leones really had become.

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#47

Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

QUOTE (Zee @ Friday, Sep 28 2012, 12:50)
But, after playing LCS and nothing happening to CJ in San Andreas, I realized how weak the Leones really had become.

Speculating on the matter, it is possible that something was done with Carl Johnson - but we will never really know.

But really, the Leones were becoming weak after 1992, and it was solely thanks to Cipriani's efforts that the Sindaccos, the Forellis and the Sicilians didn't overpower them. Otherwise, they would be done back in 1998.

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#48

Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

I don't think the Leones lost any power, they still remained with their territories and even got stronger weapons. Luigi's club was still up because in no part of the game you see the club's name changing, if the Diablos did got the club they would re-name it after you completed some missions or ended the game which is not the case, it's still "Luigi's Club". Like in LCS, it stopped being the Gentlemen's club and they changed once you defeated the Sindaccos.

Now, I can't really see Toni leading a gang, it's just not him... if you played GTA LCS, you know what I mean. Probably another Made Man with more leadership skills took the place. What I find interesting is that you never attack the Leones again so it's really hard to know what they were up to, if R*'s idea was to make us curious, they did a good job. I guess they and the Triads took a brake and let other gang families kill each others because they really weren't involved in the SPANK drug thingy. Now about the mission "Under surveillance" I think it was the FBI they were only using Leone's skin models. Look at McAfrey in this game, he has a normal ped skin while his LCS model does not. I don't know why they say that in the PS2 version they are Mafia and the PC version they are FBI.. either way, that sounds more of an FBI job to me. They've got M4's I dobut the Leones would waste these weapons to track down an unknown man like Claude.

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#49

Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:00 PM

To everything that was said above:

If Luigi's Club remained under Leone control as of GTA III's Finale, this does not mean that it would not have been possibly taken over by the Diablos later on, in 2002, for example.
It's the same as with Fort Staunton: the area being destroyed in GTA LCS didn't mean that it would remain a wasteland in GTA III, you know?

There was nobody else except for the Uptown Yardies and the Colombians who were involved in the SPANK trade. So the reason for the Leones and the Triads making peace over this matter didn't really fit as these two gangs were fighting for territory control. We will see that again in LCS.

About "Under Surveillance": Originally, in the PS2 version, it was the Mafia spying on the Yakuza operations in order to try and find Claude - simply because the Leones had some ideas about who issued Salvatore's Send-off and who was the assasin. And also, tell me, why would a powerful Mafia gang like the Leones not possess powerful weapons? Even Salvatore himself is carrying M16, as seen in "Sayonara Salvatore". It could only be assumed that the elite Family members wielded these weapons, and the ordinary members possessed less powerful weaponry, and that's all.

The reason why the Leones were replaced with the FBI on the PC version is unknown. But both version fit into the story perfectly enough.

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#50

Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

QUOTE (Arsen Vitiuk @ Wednesday, Oct 10 2012, 15:00)
To everything that was said above:

If Luigi's Club remained under Leone control as of GTA III's Finale, this does not mean that it would not have been possibly taken over by the Diablos later on, in 2002, for example.
It's the same as with Fort Staunton: the area being destroyed in GTA LCS didn't mean that it would remain a wasteland in GTA III, you know?

There was nobody else except for the Uptown Yardies and the Colombians who were involved in the SPANK trade. So the reason for the Leones and the Triads making peace over this matter didn't really fit as these two gangs were fighting for territory control. We will see that again in LCS.

About "Under Surveillance": Originally, in the PS2 version, it was the Mafia spying on the Yakuza operations in order to try and find Claude - simply because the Leones had some ideas about who issued Salvatore's Send-off and who was the assasin. And also, tell me, why would a powerful Mafia gang like the Leones not possess powerful weapons? Even Salvatore himself is carrying M16, as seen in "Sayonara Salvatore". It could only be assumed that the elite Family members wielded these weapons, and the ordinary members possessed less powerful weaponry, and that's all.

The reason why the Leones were replaced with the FBI on the PC version is unknown. But both version fit into the story perfectly enough.

Yes but the question is, what happened to the Leones after Salvatore's death not in 2002. I believe Luigi kept the club because the Leones didn't lose much influence.. Salvatore was getting old, so they probably already had someone ready to replace him.

I believe SPANK was ruining their import/export deals that's why Salvatore sent you to destroy the boat.. I don't think it was because they were rivals because in LCS there's only 1 mission against them given by Sal which you must kill Miguel (his twin? O_o) and it was because of a deal so they are more neutral than enemies. The Diablos and the Yakuza were involved as well, just against it and even the Hoods. The Leones might have lost some influences but they didn't died for real like the Sindaccos. They are all over Saint Mark's so they just replaced Sal with someone who has leadership skills in my opinion. They only lost a man, not a territory nor gang members.

If the "Under Surveillance" guys are truly from the Mafia I will be dissapointed for giving up at the first try.

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#51

Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE (Pierre grove @ Sunday, Apr 26 2009, 18:06)
Also what's the Leone's current future?

I guess the question really states what it states.

And, to add:

I don't think that Salvatore getting old means something - as long as he got the power to run the family, he will not be replaced, unless he retires at his own will.

Of course in LCS the Colombians were not rivals with the Leones. But in III, with Catalina being the Second-In-Command, the actions taken by the Colombian Cartel - and that includes SPANK trade and getting information about the Leone family from the rat - Curly Bob (as seen in "Cutting The Grass") led to the two gangs becoming enemies - with Salvatore igniting the conflict in the gang's self-defence.

Of course, the Leones did not lose territory inside GTA III, but we already know that in LCS the Diablos planned to take over the Red Light District - tried and failed. But now, with Salvatore out of the way, it can be assumed that they decided to try their luck again - and succeeded due to the gang already being weakened in the war with the Triads - and the Triads, in turn, seeking total control of Chinatown - which means, a turf war.

Now I think that Saint Mark's was a no-go for both Diablos and the Triads, but Red Light District and Chinatown were easy meat. So they fell under Diablo and Triad control, respectively. That's my point.

P.S. And I think that after losing their elite in "Under Surveillance", the Leones, already severely weakened, did not risk to send in more troops after Claude, that's all. They decided to let him go, and instead foucs on standing their ground in Portland.

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#52

Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:18 AM

You know, I never really bought into the theory that the Leone Family collapsed, especially after playing LCS and then replaying GTA III afterwards.

I do agree that Sal's death would have definitely weakened the Leones, but Toni Cipriani clearly would have been the next Don, and is clearly a capable leader and effective criminal, as seen in both LCS and III.

They also lost the least of any gang in GTA III (except for the Southside Hoods, who really only exist to provide side missions and have no real bearing on the story). They only lost Salvatore and a few hitmen, while their biggest enemies, the Triads and Cartel, have been extremely weakened.

The Leones have pretty much defeated the Triads, and while they still hold Chinatown, they've lost everything else to the Leones. The Fish Factory is gone, as are Chunky Lee Chong and the three Warlords who led the gang. If I remember correctly, Mr. Wong's Laundromat was taken over by the Leones after you finish all of Toni's missions.

The Forellis are completely extinct while the Diablos are really too weak to do anything outside of Hepburn Heights. They don't even have guns anymore.

The Cartel are assumed to be finished after Claude wiped out their main assets and killed Catalina. The Yakuza is also severely weakened with Kenji and Asuka dead, as well as their costly war with the Cartel and Yardies. It is implied that the Yakuza was losing their war against the Cartel and Yardies until Claude joined them and wiped the floor with the Cartel.

Are the Leones weakened? Definitely. Are they finished as a gang? No.

Basically, the Leones are down, but not out.

The Cartel and Triads are basically finished, as they have no leaders or major businesses to support them anymore. The Yakuza's future is uncertain since they have no leader (The Leones did lose Salvatore, but it's pretty obvious that Toni is the new boss), the Yardies and Diablos are weakened, while the Forellis and Purple Nines are completely destroyed.

Only the Red Jacks made it through GTA III unscathed.

In other words, the Leones were certainly weakened by Salvatore's death, but Toni Cipriani is the new leader and he's clearly competent. The Triads and Cartel, their two main enemies, are more or less finished thanks to Claude, while the Yakuza has no clear leader and with Asuka dead, they have no interest in the Mafia.

The only gangs that were completely wiped out were the Forellis and Purple Nines. The Cartel and Triads still hold turf after you complete the game, but they are on borrowed time following the loss of their main assets and leaders. The Leones lost their leader, but had a clear successor and didn't lose any major businesses.

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#53

Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:50 AM

QUOTE (Osric @ Monday, Nov 5 2012, 05:18)
The only gangs that were completely wiped out were the Forellis and Purple Nines. The Cartel and Triads still hold turf after you complete the game, but they are on borrowed time following the loss of their main assets and leaders. The Leones lost their leader, but had a clear successor and didn't lose any major businesses.

I could have possibly agreed to that. However, do not forget that even though the Leones have a successor to lead the gang, even two, taking Joey into account, it could appear that both of them would not be competent to lead the Family.

If you played LCS, and I believe you did, then you certainly know that Toni is better at running errands rather than taking a lead, adding up to being a Momma's boy to the worst mother in the world, and Joey has no skills in leading the Family, mainly because Salvatore was keeping him away from Family's business.

So it may appear that it is not because of the loss of the leader that the Leones will fall apart, but because of incompetence of the new leader, be it Toni or Joey, that the Leones will cease to exist after some time. Plus, do not forget that after 1992 the Leone Family was slowly losing everything, and it is only thanks to Toni that the family existed after 1998, where it, most possibly, would have been wiped out by Massimo Torini.

P.S. And the Colombians are definitely not finished, they continued to exist, just so remain severely weakened. Simply because they have businesses left outside of Liberty City - like the Shell company on Cayman Islands.

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#54

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

@Arsen

I understand that Toni is more of an errand boy in LCS however he matures over the course of the game, but if you play III, you do realize he is a competent leader and strategist, as he basically is responsible for the destruction of the Triads in Liberty City, using Claude as the vector for their destruction. Toni lives with his mom mainly out of a sense of devotion to her, trying to care for his mother, even if she does think low of him.

The Triads are the Leone Family's most direct threat and their biggest enemy, and thanks to Toni and Claude, they are finished. They have no leader, as Claude killed the Three Warlords and dozens of their soldiers, their two biggest assets, the Fish Factory and the Laundromat are gone, as the Fish Factory is destroyed and the Laundromat is under Leone control. So, I highly doubt the Triads can wipe out the Leones as they clearly have the upper hand, even with Salvatore dead, the Triads are essentially on borrowed time.

As for the Cartel, you do bring up a good point in the fact that they have assets outside of Liberty City, but if you consider the fact that they've lost both their leaders and all of the major assets they had in Liberty City (such as the SPANK Boat, Panlantic Construction, Cochrane Dam, etc.) as well as dozens of soldiers and most of their SPANk supplies have been destroyed, the Cartel may be able to survive within the city as a severely weakened gang, but their glory days are over. They're at war with the city's two most powerful gangs: The Yakuza and The Leones, and are losing both wars. Their two main allies, the Triads and the Yardies are no longer useful, seeing as the Triads are essentially doomed and the Yardies are a minor gang.

The only other gang that could be a threat to the Leones is the Yakuza, but they are going through a succession crisis, and the only reason Asuka wanted Salvatore dead was to test Claude's loyalty, not out of any real desire to war with the Mafia.

The three hit squads are never really confirmed to be Leones or FBI, but either way, the Leones are significantly weakened, but are in no way doomed or defunct. Their biggest enemy is royally screwed, Toni is a competent leader, albeit nowhere near as effective as Salvatore Leone, and none of their assets and businesses were lost.

The only other gang near Mafia turf is the Diablos, and they are too weak and small-time to fight the Leones. The main reason they even tried to take the Red Light District in LCS was because they were being used by the Sicilian Mafia as hired muscle to harass the Leones. By 2001, the Diablos don't even have guns.

Yakuza don't like the Leones, but aren't seeking a direct war with them either. The Cartel could fight the Leones, but they are even more weakened than the significantly weakened Leones.

Toni is a decent leader, not great, but not bad either. And with the Triads essentially neutralized, the Leones could continue existing, at least controlling Saint Mark's, Red Light District, and Harwood.

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#55

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:25 AM

Well, who knows, after all. We both make sense in the end. I still think that the Leones will slowly submerge into the shadows, just like the Forellis did before them.

One thing is for certain: The Leones will never restore the might they once had. Toni isn't that powerful to be able to do that, no matter what you think.

P.S. And I am more than sure that the Colombians get financed from outside Liberty City at a rate decent enough to continue their existence. But not their war. And who will want to take over Cedar Grove anyway? As you said yourself, the Yakuza is weakened. And the Leones are very weak as well to take this territory. So I guess the Cartel will just exist long enough until someone - most possible the Red Jacks (or maybe some new gang) - decides to expand.

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#56

Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

Wasn't Joey Leone already in the family by GTA III? He was one of the few who attended late Salvatore's meeting. According to a Liberty Tree article, it said that Joey was a chief-in-waiting.

If that's the case, then Joey Leone could be the next Don. Others in the organization moved up. Toni Cipriani served as the underboss, Luigi rose as a capo, and Mickey Hamfists remaining as the enforcer. Cipriani eventually moved out of his family-run restaurant and moved into his own upscale apartment up in one of the row houses in Saint Marks, therefore impressing his mother somewhat.

The Forellis were defunct for sure. They most likely gave up their organization and joined among the ranks of the Leone family, serving as soldiers/soldatos.

The Leones managed to hold a grip on Saint Marks and the Red Light District, as well as their criminal businesses. With their rivals declining in power, it can easily said that their problems with the rivals are over for the time being till the Russian Mafia comes to Liberty City and trying to gain their share in the city's organized crime.

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#57

Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

I agree with most of what Osric said. Good posts.

 

I've always felt that the Leones might be in one of the best positions post game. Salvatore is dead, but they have three other leaders to run things. Toni is the most likely candidate to take over. Joey was usually portrayed as being more interested in cars and robbery than in running the family. I think the biggest factor deciding on the Leone's future is whether there's a power struggle, or whether the gang transitions to a new boss peacefully.

 

The Leones are significantly weakened. Salvatore had been the boss for a long time, and many real life criminal organizations do lose power after losing key members. While there are only a few missions requiring you to fight the Mafia, Curly Bob does say that they're losing men and influence in the city due to fighting multiple enemies. And their fortunes have clearly declined since LCS.

 

Regarding their enemies. There are always Triads walking around, but I assumed that from a story perspective, they're finished. Aside from the Cartel, they're the gang you damage the most. Any Triads left would probably be disorganized and without a good source of income. We don't get a sense of the extent of the Forellis operations, but given how little focus they're given in the story, I think we can assume that there's only a few left, and you kill several through out the game. We don't get much of a sense as to where the Diablos fit in the underworld of Liberty City, but they never seem very powerful. They aren't heavily armed, and you kill a few dozen of them over the course of the story. El Burro's missions seem to be more about protecting his business than expanding it. I don't see them being a true threat to the Leones, even given their problems. The Yakuza are one of the more stable gangs in the game, but their missions don't usually seem very ambitious. I consider the Cartel to be practically defunct after all the damage you do to them.

 

As for why they don't try to track down Claude...good question. My best guess is that after everything that's happened, they don't have the resources or the time to spend on finding him, especially since the game only ever requires to make brief trips to Portland after the other islands are unlocked.

 

To sum it all up, I'm not sure the Leones are in a good position to expand their business, but I do think they've got a good chance of holding onto what they already have.

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#58

Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:32 PM

I hope that the Leone's were wiped out. They were the worst gang in the 3D Universe imo with their fa**ot-ass shotguns...


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#59

Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:33 PM

I hope that the Leone's were wiped out. They were the worst gang in the 3D Universe imo with their fa**ot-ass shotguns...

Talking from experience, Jean? Haha!


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#60

Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:34 PM

Let's try and be more sensible and contribute to the discussion guys :^:





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