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[REL] Loulou221 Realistic Handlings

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loulou221
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#31

Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:24 AM Edited by loulou221, 29 March 2009 - 11:27 AM.

Explosions can be replaced by a smoking engine via a CLEO Mod ("Deadcar Cleo" by Zyonig)
And a 70 kph frontal crash in real life is lethal (depending on the car).
So in my opinion, it's realistic.

@ Aimaster : Thanks. I understand that there is a lot of handlings, but it's the best way to share them (it would have been too complicated otherwise)

rap918
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#32

Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:38 PM

amazing work icon14.gif
handling setting from your mod is much better then original happy.gif

Zyo
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#33

Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:17 PM

Great collection of handling lines here. They work nicely. I use my own but our basic principles seem to be quite similar. I like the collection you have for custom vehicles too. I am glad someone is contributing to the community who really appreciates the realistic handling aspect for GTA.

I was curious as to what did you use to determine what handling to apply to what vehicle. For example you mention a 1993 Caprice for the Premier. What are the rest? have you perhaps published your version of the real car list.

Good work. And thanks for the mention of one of my mods biggrin.gif

loulou221
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#34

Posted 08 April 2009 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE
  Great collection of handling lines here. They work nicely. I use my own but our basic principles seem to be quite similar. I like the collection you have for custom vehicles too. I am glad someone is contributing to the community who really appreciates the realistic handling aspect for GTA.

I was curious as to what did you use to determine what handling to apply to what vehicle. For example you mention a 1993 Caprice for the Premier. What are the rest? have you perhaps published your version of the real car list.

Good work. And thanks for the mention of one of my mods


I love custom cars, as much as I love American cars.
ATM I'm not able to give the list of the cars that inspired me for the realistic handling of original SA cars, but for example the Intruder is similar to a Subaru Legacy, so that's why it has 4WD. I made a lot of searches about car's technical specifications and performances to recreate the real performances. That is a very long job : I began making realistic handling 3 years ago, I spend those 3 years finding the best way to make cars feel better.
And your mod works nicely, that's why I recommended it.

At this moment, I wait for more cars to be released before releasing new lines. But the list is growing fast.
I'm not working on the mod so much, I'm playing Vice City, because I love the possibilities of handling tweaking...

omega5002
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#35

Posted 09 April 2009 - 02:44 AM

Wow, 3 years researching how to perfect handling lines, that I have to say that's a long time and I've been modding GTA for only 2 years, so keep on doing your thing. You are actually the first person I met who has better handling lines than Cebera and he was the pioneer to modding the handling line.

I'm justing wondering Lou, I know you have shown me estimates and tips a while ago like these

1) In the flags, you should use McPherson suspension, in order to prevent the wheels from going through the body. Then, you just have to correct the suspension upper limit.
2) For the turning mass : it must be equal to 4 or 5 times the normal mass, to create a realistic feeling. Above this value, the car could react in a strange way.
3) Both inertia and acceleration have effects on the car's performance.
High torque feel : high inertia and high acceleration values
Low torque feel : low inertia and low acceleration values.
This works well when the inertia is over 150

But I wonder, do you have calculations behind your handling lines like how do you calculate your inertia's to your acclerations and your traction. Just curious so I can understand how you do your handling lines so I can help more in your great effort to improve the handling of most cars so the game is more realistic.

P.S. Modding the Handling line in GTA Vice City is kinda tricky because due the way the game is made, you need very high mass to acheive the real top speed of a car and there's no inertia, so the acceleration is limited but let's see how you pull it off.

Zyo
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#36

Posted 09 April 2009 - 03:11 PM Edited by zyonig, 10 April 2009 - 02:42 AM.

I don't know exactly what loulou does, but what i do to determine engine inertia values is enter a figure relative to the real vehicles equivalent bhp. For example a 1988s Chevy Caprice replacing the taxi/premier/copcar. I know this is not the correct replacement but but its reasonable to consider and easier to illustrate.

Taxi = 1988 Caprice with 4.3l 140hp V6 = inertia of 140
Premier = 1988 Caprice with 305ci 170hp V8 = inertia of 170
Copcar = 1988 Caprice 9C1 with 350ci 180 V8 = inertia of 180 (or more, some claim this version puts out 190hp)

Higher inertia figures mean slower and smoother acceleration so higher acceleration figures are needed. higher acceleration figures mean more torque. my figures are:
Taxi - Inertia 140/acceleration 23
Premier - Inertia 170/acceleration 27
police - Inertia 180/acceleration 39

These figures give the taxi a 0-60 of about 12 secs, the premier 10.5, and the police car 8.5.
There are other figures that affect this too, mostly drag and grip. My drag figures are usually a lot lower than loulou here so expect some variations here. I use 0.8 for sports cars, 1.0 for sedans, 1.1/1.2 for blocky sedans (eg dodge diplomat) and 1.5 for vans and up to 2.0 for trucks. For the examples I have given, all the vehicles have drag value of 1.1

Anyway thats the basics of how I make my Inertia/acc calculations. It seems to me to give great results.


QUOTE
Modding the Handling line in GTA Vice City is kinda tricky because due the way the game is made, you need very high mass to acheive the real top speed of a car and there's no inertia,


For realistic performance in Vice city, what i did was instead of entering weight in kg I multiply by 2.2 to enter the weight in lbs.
Continuing the example, a 1988 caprice 1700kg +/- gives a weight value in VC of 3740.
This seems to work much better and makes it a lot easier to make realistic accelerations while still keeping the values accurate to the real weight of the real-life equivalent.

i am curious to see what others think, and/or do for their calculations.

loulou221
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#37

Posted 09 April 2009 - 05:17 PM

I don't calculate anything, I just "feel it". However there is some rules when I do a realistic line :
- the turning mass is between 4 and 5 times the mass depending on the car's mass. It has had less effect since I introduced new turning radius values. The mass is one of the most important values for the car's performances. I enter real car values.
- For the performances & the engine, it's based on engine torque. A car may have low torque (which is represented by acceleration value : it means a value under 40) and low inertia (between 200 and 250) and have the same performances as a car with high inertia and high torque.
This is what happens with the ZR-350 and the Sabre in the version 3.0 of my mod.
The ZR-350 inertia is below 250, and a 37.0 acceleration value. But the Sabre has an amazing 60 acceleration value, and an inertia of 300, but with the same performances.
This settings allow you to render several realistic things :
1) The "big-block feeling" : it's the feeling that the car is hard to control, because it has great torque to make the wheels spin in the corners, and this car will seem to accelerate slowly until 20-30 kph, because of tire slip (2WD cars only).
2) Smoothness. The V8 from the Sabre has a very smooth acceleration curve, but the ZR-350 not.
3) The handling will be very different depending on the engine : as I said, cars with great torque will tend to spin, but cars with low torque will tend to understeer a bit.
But a few values can cancel this.
Indeed gravity center is important, and can change handling completely. Understeer will be increased if gravity center is at the rear (for RWD), but oversteer will be increased if the gravity center is at the front. It works the same for 4WD cars, unless it has far more grip.
For FWD cars, it's the contrary.
- Drag multiplier. This is very important for sports cars. In older versions of my mod (before v2.0), there was high drag coefficient, so the sports car couldn't reach their top speed. So here what I use (depending on the top speed and engine torque) :
less than 200 kph : between 2.0 and 2.3
Between 200 kph and 225 kph : between 1.85 and 1.95
More than 225 kph : between 1.75 and 1.85
And the list isn't finished at all. Handling is more complicated that it appears to be, because possibilities are huge.
That's why I spent 3 years looking for the best handling line.

For Vice City I haven't started realistic lines, but I have noticed the weird top speed mechanism. If I find a good speedometer, I may do realistic lines for Vice City.
I tried 10 000 kg, and my speedometer displayed 230 kph in the Cheetah with tweaked handling. I think this is too much, so now it displays 135-140 kph on fast cars, but I think it has wrong units (kph displayed, but it looks like it's mph).
I'll try other things and I'll tell you.

So there is no calculations, even if there is some "rules". When you have understood how it works, it becomes incredibly easy to do a line.
Zyonig's calculations seems to be quite interesting.

rap918
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#38

Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:26 AM

i like this mod.....works fine icon14.gif

loulou221
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#39

Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:08 AM

Thanks ! About the mod I'm busy, that's why there is no updates, but I will update it soon with new handlings.

Dragonov
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#40

Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:10 PM

just a question , can we request a handeling?


and , could it be, the interia = Bhp of the car?

loulou221
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#41

Posted 20 May 2009 - 05:32 PM

Requests are allowed, but please PM me, it will be easier.
And no, inertia doesn't reflect the power of the car, the value depends on acceleration, grip, weight and a few other things.

Dragonov
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#42

Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE (loulou221 @ May 20 2009, 17:32)
Requests are allowed, but please PM me, it will be easier.
And no, inertia doesn't reflect the power of the car, the value depends on acceleration, grip, weight and a few other things.

ah ok , but it seemed that way , looked at the valeus

loulou221
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#43

Posted 21 June 2009 - 09:02 AM

The new lines are online, with a lot of new cars ! Enjoy !!
http://www.geocities...tichandling.htm

KillingName
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#44

Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:15 AM

Dude, could u do a really bad ass handling for the sabre, like if it got hundreds of horse power, maybe like the last part of the movie the fast and the furious, when dieselīs car accelerates and the front wheels just go in mid air, like doing a wheelie, well, just the badass sabre would be ok, by the way, this mod is a kickass mod dude, u can really see u put a lot of effort in this.

loulou221
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#45

Posted 03 July 2009 - 09:48 AM

Thanks !
For the Sabre, it might be a good idea, I'm gonna see what I can do, because it needs a lot of settings... but I will work on it, don't worry.

rastakilla
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#46

Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:42 PM

Dude cars accelerate way to quick with your mod!

loulou221
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#47

Posted 03 July 2009 - 04:07 PM

Acceleration is made following real car performances, so I don't think it accelerates too fast.
I could make them slower, but the game needs to stay fun and "playable"...

KillingName
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#48

Posted 06 July 2009 - 08:06 AM

QUOTE (loulou221 @ Jul 3 2009, 09:48)
Thanks !
For the Sabre, it might be a good idea, I'm gonna see what I can do, because it needs a lot of settings... but I will work on it, don't worry.

haha dude, thanks, i would like the sabre stuff, i saw it in a gta 4 mod, but this notebook cant run it, and i suck with dat-_-.

solomsolomol
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#49

Posted 08 July 2009 - 05:59 PM

i was meaning to ask someone to do a handling like that to make the cars heavier so they don't fly away every time you hit 'em with a bmx dozingoff.gif ,pretty nice work
also ,you should make a couple of "universal" lines so we can use them on modded cars , like a line for rear drive car and another for front drive ...etc
thanks

loulou221
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#50

Posted 09 July 2009 - 06:34 AM

It's impossible to do that and have a realistic line, because each car is different...
It's like I do the same line for a 70's full-size and a modern supercar...




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