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SecuROM will be used!

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jesushumper
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#61

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:17 PM

So if you have no conenction you can use another computer to do it? I guess that means the user will have to move some data tfrom one machien to another. Sounds like a good gateway for the crackers...

And needing online authentication AND requiring the disc to be in your drive? that's god damned stupid.

Funny, when i think of FAQs, i assume the question therein are ones actually ASKED by users/customers/whatnot, but this one seem like it was generated without ANY specific questions being asked, but what inquireies they'lll expect.

Not really a bad thing, but sure is misleading.


oh and thanks for the info, Chuck.

DML
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#62

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (CharmingCharlie @ Nov 29 2008, 00:44)
QUOTE (Rockstar's dickhead text...)
Having copy protection allows us to protect the integrity or our titles and future investments, but at the same time we have worked very hard to ensure that our solutions do not persecute the legitimate players of our games. Implemented correctly, SecuROM is the most effective form of disc based copy protection and allows us to manage authenticity on a global level for Grand Theft Auto IV.

If Rockstar are so sure about this copy protection system, and "PIRACY MADE US TREAT PC GAMERS LIKE PIG sh*t" (Rockstar's company line), then why the 6-month daffodil-delay?

f*ckin' pansies I say.

Killuminati91
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#63

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:19 PM

now THIS is what i call a faq... great job r*

Neon25
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#64

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:22 PM

Fair enough about the protection. This way I can still play GTA IV in 4-5 years time when I will have formatted my PC a gazillion times. smile.gif

Death_Blade
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#65

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:39 PM

This kind of bullsh*t makes me want to pirate the game even more. I originally intended to buy it, but I think ill pirate it instead. You shouldnt have to activate it online if you dont even want to play online. And what happens when the game is old and GTA IV's activation servers arent around anymore, and you want to go back and play it for nostalgic reasons? You wont be able to. Atleast you wont have to revoke your CD key every time you format your HDD. I guess they did SOMETHING right. Sounds like PC version is going to be a huge disaster.

turboturd
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#66

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:40 PM

grrrr icon13.gif

gta-man22
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#67

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:43 PM

F*CK THE DRM devil.gif if this continues this way, i will yarrr

Chris_Waddle
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#68

Posted 28 November 2008 - 03:52 PM

Thanks charmingcharlie for that post. Easies some of the worries I have.

There are several games that I won't buy because of DRM (basically any EA game now). The install limit and intrusive installations they use, means that I will never buy any game like that.

I'm a football fan and have bought Football Manager (prevously Championship Manager) since the early 90's when it was released in DOS. Thanks to their intrusive DRM (with limits) and IGA (In Game Advertising) for the first time, I haven't bought it and have told family not to buy it for me.
Just read the Amazon reviews (here) to see what a disaster their introduction of DRM has been. Fingers crossed that this doesn't happen with GTA IV.

As has been mentioned, I could buy the game then download the hacked version, but the more people do this, means that the software companies are still getting their money, hence will keep using it. Only when people stop buying games because of their intrusive DRM, will they stop using it.

If I want a game, I will buy it and I would rather go without a game than download the hacked version. I believe in paying for a product that I want.

Granted, I have imaged some of my games so that I don't need to insert the disk, but I still need the genuine serial numbers etc in order to install them.

I am also delighted that this game doesn't have IGA. If it had that, I definitely wouldn't buy it.

Whilst I am not overly happy with SecuRom and on-line activation (I'm cynical and not happy with programs installed that check my system), I do feel that the way R* are using it is just about acceptable. I'm not happy, I would prefer not to have to activate it, but I think I will still buy it.

jesushumper
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#69

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:14 PM

EA uses similar protection, it got cracked before any release.

Ubisoft used another similar scheme, it was also cracked before release.

Having these stupid protection schemes makes me think twice about buying some games, (and HAS kept me from a few), adn do these gaems that get crakded before official release REALLY see an increase in sales? Of course there's no real way to tell, but that's certainyl the case for me. The more ti rad about it, the less enthused i am about being suckered into buying a great game, but be fored to install invasice software and have to f*ckING ASJ EPERSMISSION to play even single-player. Another case of the legitiamte consumer getting teh sh*tty end of the stick. R* had better do a godo job with holding the MP servers up.

I've payed for me copy LONG ago, but I'm still nto sure if i'll get my money back... i guess if it gets craked sooem enough i'll buy adn jsut use teh crack.. other than that.. i dunno... sad.gif

This makes me a sad panda.

j_f_mac
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#70

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:32 PM

Now I'm 100 % sure: I'm cracking it. Because of this:
QUOTE
Requirements for playing (singleplayer): Games for Windows Live account for saving/achievements (1x free creation), original disc, Securom runs in the background

and because it needs internet connection.

R* and GFWL: f*ck-YOU
I'm thinking of not buying an original from now on. f*ck YOU, no game goes on the internet for SAVING on my computer.

DML
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#71

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE (j_f_mac @ Nov 29 2008, 02:32)
QUOTE
Games for Windows Live account for saving/achievements (1x free creation)

Yeah! What's this "1x free creation" bullsh*t? It sounds like console talk. Could someone translate, please?

Motanum
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#72

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:40 PM

Rstar was very clever on their anti piracy system... securom is not bad, if u dont want to play with cd on then just buy trhough steam. there is no limit installs and in these days who doesnt have internet access? If spore had these kind of piracy system i might have buy it, but it doesnt so f*ck spore!

OMG!!! 5 days!!!! its just a matter of time!!! So exited!!1

Malik
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#73

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE (DML @ Nov 28 2008, 16:34)
QUOTE (j_f_mac @ Nov 29 2008, 02:32)
QUOTE
Games for Windows Live account for saving/achievements (1x free creation)

Yeah! What's this "1x free creation" bullsh*t? It sounds like console talk. Could someone translate, please?

Probably another marketing scheme to get more money out of us, its not enough that you buy the game.
validate the cd.
validate trough internet.
install some securom bs and keep it running in the background like some spyware.
login to 2 different websites.
always be connected to internet to save etc etc

U can keep ur game r* icon14.gif

Malik
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#74

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:47 PM

QUOTE (Motanum @ Nov 28 2008, 16:40)
Rstar was very clever on their anti piracy system... securom is not bad, if u dont want to play with cd on then just buy trhough steam. there is no limit installs and in these days who doesnt have internet access? If spore had these kind of piracy system i might have buy it, but it doesnt so f*ck spore!

OMG!!! 5 days!!!! its just a matter of time!!! So exited!!1

Clever??
To make their customers go trough all the steps i just mentioned?

lol...that wont slow crackers down one single bit, it just makes it sh*tty for us customers

GTA_NYC
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#75

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:59 PM

Oh! Thank God i did not spend money to upgrade my PC fot GTA. colgate.gif


These FAQ's are longer than my Credit Card T&C. confused.gif



GTAMonkey2012
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#76

Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:59 PM Edited by GTAMonkey2012, 28 November 2008 - 05:13 PM.

Hmmm ... as I posted before Crysis Wars has online activation but never needs the CD in the drive, the online activation is "in-place" of CD/DVD check so why they are leaving it to use both is stupid.

From what I understand you activate online once and if you played SP only from then on you dont "need" to be online or have anything else running except inserting DVD on startup (unless a nocd arrives).

I realy dont see that you need all the other software running at the same time "unless" you loading the game know your going to go online, plus you dont need social club really unless you going to be online and make videos, as far as I can see you make videos offline then save the render and then go online to put on social club "after".

I think the idea that your forced online with everything installed just to play SP is finally resolved, its not the case.

My approach is, install and activate, stay offline and play SP. After getting used to things, run account to try MP, dont bother with social club to much later. Then when I try a video do it offline, save the video file, exit the game, goto social club software, go online, upload ... stay offline after and go back to SP .... kind of like that.


QUOTE
The Rockstar Games Social Club application is required to run in order to launch and play the game.


I assume needs to "run" to launch but not needed to be actually online. The more you read the FAQ the more it contradicts itself.

RandomRant
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#77

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:20 PM

It is such a shame that even R* now jumps on this horrible bandwagon lead by EA. Sure, compared to Spore this one kinda looks gentle but it is a step in a very bad direction.

I can't tell how angry I am about them. First of all I guess there is no further need to prove the uneffectiveness of such measures against illegal copying. In case this is supposed to enable them to lock keys that are used for illegal copies, then there will just be another crack against it.
Maybe they want to gather data how often games are borrowed/sold but the result will be useless by their obvious inaccuracy (As there is no definite way distinguish a user selling their copy or just buying a new PC).

So while there are still no real advantages the disadvantages remain.
First of all it annoying to the customer, who might (momentary) have no internet connection, have to wait for activation-server downtime or at least has to alter the firewall rules. Sure nowerdays this is not a real desaster, but it an extra bit of harassment to paying customers.

But what angers me most is the purblindness; GTA 4 undoubtedly has what you need for a real timelass classic, that you want to play in 10 Years from now or even later. Who knows that R* is then still there/able/willing to pay and run the activation servers? Who knows if they have the funds and time to develop a no-activation patch before they are forced to take the servers down? Who will host the no-activiation patch incase? Who knows if in 20 Years we will still have this everywhere avaiable "Internet" that we now take for granted - even though it doesn't really 20 Years of history?

Sure, everything might go right, but why oh why take this uncalculatable risk for nothing? Well of course its not R* or the "evil pirates", but again only the paying customers take that risk. Oh and to counter the "just crack it" argument: I am absolutely unwilling to do illegal stuff with my legally paid software, see http://xkcd.com/488/.

I am absolutely sure that for someone with techincal knowledge and common sense its just evident that such kind of copy protection is just a stupid waste of money on weapons that only hurt your paying customers. So I have to assume its some business boss watching to many SecuROM powerpoint slides deciding to take this rather dumb placebo. Its so that that they infected R*/Take2 already, I was happy to see them refusing EAs takeover... for nothing.

angry.gif

free_to_view
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#78

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:20 PM

QUOTE (GTAMonkey2012 @ Nov 28 2008, 16:59)

QUOTE
The Rockstar Games Social Club application is required to run in order to launch and play the game.


I assume needs to "run" to launch but not needed to be actually online. The more you read the FAQ the more it contradicts itself.

Not sure if you have to go to there website before gameplay and login for multiplayer but when signing up you have to link your Games for Windows Live account with the social club. I think has long as your social club is linked to your Games for Windows Live account it shouldn't really ask you to sign in both ways...Just the signing in to your Games For Windows Live.

We have to wait and see

GTAMonkey2012
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#79

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:23 PM

True its still confusion though I think.

The first thing I will do when my game arrives is look at the manual and have a read, dont install anything and wait for the posts on forums about procedure and issues cool.gif

amisnaru
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#80

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:25 PM

Guys, I think you can use your GFWL account OFFLINE for saving & achievements.

All in all, what did you expect?
The game is gonna be hugely popular so they must do something to prevent the disaster that everyone will just pirate it.

Stop calling it DRM, it doesn't limit your installs or anything!

CharmingCharlie
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#81

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:28 PM

Whilst I can understand the level of annoyance at this protection scheme. I have decided myself to go ahead and buy the game, then deal with the situations that arise from it. If you have decided not to buy the game because of these intrusive measures then that is fair enough. I am not going to try and change your mind.

However do not think that gives you the right to steal the game. If you are not paying for the game then you have no right to play the game. If you want to send a message that you won't buy securom protected software then fine, but don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

Not willing to buy the game because of the protection, fine but show some f*cking balls and don't pirate the game. I can't stand the hypocrisy of some people "oh boo hoo I don't like the protection so I am going to steal the game".

vachon644
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#82

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:31 PM

The Steam will be free from SecuROM right?

CharmingCharlie
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#83

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:34 PM

QUOTE (vachon644 @ Nov 28 2008, 18:31)
The Steam will be free from SecuROM right?

No the steam version also has securom. The steam version is always identical to the retail version, the only difference is another layer of code to replace the cd check with linking the game to your account. So ALL versions of GTA 4 on the PC will have securom.

Whytey
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#84

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:35 PM

QUOTE
Those playing GTA 4 with an illegally hacked version have, according to Rockstar, to fear that the game will not be fully playable


Does this mean features in the game will be limited?

DML
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#85

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:35 PM

QUOTE (CharmingCharlie @ Nov 29 2008, 03:28)
Not willing to buy the game because of the protection, fine but show some f*cking balls and don't pirate the game.  I can't stand the hypocrisy of some people "oh boo hoo I don't like the protection so I am going to steal the game".

Remember though, that copy protection or not, many people will be copying this game out of pure, bitter protest over the fact that it's a cheap, 7-month-late console port not even done by DMA Design. I'm not speaking for myself obviously, but many will be doing that.

And I think we both know that, if the PC version sold 1,000,000,000 copies, Rockstar would still find some way of suppressing the figures and stats, so that their precious ego doesn't get damaged - by people seeing how much of a failure their choice of initial release platform was. Rockstar have already been up to their old ignorant tricks - underestimating the number of copies required in stores by the original release date - having to delay the game just to pump out more. The silly sods.

free_to_view
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#86

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:39 PM

Love your sig DML, very clever lol.gif Have yourself a cookie cookie.gif

RandomRant
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#87

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:41 PM

QUOTE (amisnaru @ Nov 28 2008, 17:25)
The game is gonna be hugely popular so they must do something to prevent the disaster that everyone will just pirate it.

This does not counter piracy. Stop making such stupid claims until you bring up a reasonable study or whatever argument that such type of copy protection reduces illegal copies. Currently it even seems to be the opposite: http://torrentfreak....-to-drm-080913/

Whytey
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#88

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE (RandomRant @ Nov 28 2008, 17:41)
QUOTE (amisnaru @ Nov 28 2008, 17:25)
The game is gonna be hugely popular so they must do something to prevent the disaster that everyone will just pirate it.

This does not counter piracy. Stop making such stupid claims until you bring up a reasonable study or whatever argument that such type of copy protection reduces illegal copies. Currently it even seems to be the opposite: http://torrentfreak....-to-drm-080913/

True... True

RandomRant
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#89

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE (CharmingCharlie @ Nov 28 2008, 17:28)
However do not think that gives you the right to steal the game. If you are not paying for the game then you have no right to play the game. If you want to send a message that you won't buy securom protected software then fine, but don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

Not willing to buy the game because of the protection, fine but show some f*cking balls and don't pirate the game. I can't stand the hypocrisy of some people "oh boo hoo I don't like the protection so I am going to steal the game".

Your absolutely right. And for myself I have yet to decide what to do.
But to be honest I doubt It makes a differences. For R* a "not sold" game is the same, whether you just dont buy it or pirate it instead sad.gif

For example I know some people who own a PC and a Console that decide for the platform to buy the game for based on the copy protection annoyances. So it will again result in "ohh great consoles making so many sales for us, PC just sucks"

CharmingCharlie
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#90

Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:47 PM

QUOTE (DML @ Nov 28 2008, 18:35)
Remember though, that copy protection or not, many people will be copying this game out of pure, bitter protest over the fact that it's a cheap, 7-month-late console port not even done by DMA Design.  I'm not speaking for myself obviously, but many will be doing that.

And I think we both know that, if the PC version sold 1,000,000,000 copies, Rockstar would still find some way of suppressing the figures and stats, so that their precious ego doesn't get damaged - by people seeing how much of a failure their choice of initial release platform was.  Rockstar have already been up to their old ignorant tricks - underestimating the number of copies required in stores by the original release date - having to delay the game just to pump out more.  The silly sods.

There is absolutely NO excuse to steal this game. I am not saying you should all go out and buy it, I mean if you have a grudge about getting the game late or the protection or anything else then that is fine show your grudge by not buying the game.

However downloading the game and coming here going "blah blah don't like blah blah so I am going to steal the game" just makes you look like a cretin. You have absolutely no right to play this game if you don't buy it. You are harming the PC format that you claim to love and you most certainly are not a GTA fan and shouldn't even be here.

I personally don't like 90% of what Rockstar are doing, hell I am not even that bothered about playing GTA 4 again. But I am buying the game to show support for the PC. The more people that buy it the better the chance the next GTA will be on the PC. Naturally the more people that steal it the less likely the next GTA will be on the PC.

So by all means make your protest about whatever bugs you regarding the PC version (hell there are enough things to choose from) but don't devalue your argument completely by stealing the game and playing for free.




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