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Play as a bad guy, or a good guy force to be bad?

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MichiganMuscle77
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#1

Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:02 AM

It's fun to be bad, right? In previous GTA's, the main characters were all pretty relentless in their crimes... but in IV, Niko seems to at least have something resembling a soul. He even at one point states that police are people too, just trying to survive... but I digress.

What if the next GTA had you playing as a good guy for once? A good guy forced to do bad things in order to save a family member/protect a secret/obtain McGuffin?

What if the game was crafted in such a way where if you keep needless killing to a minimum, the story would arc in a path treating your character as a generally good person in a bad situation... but if you chose to run the streets just slaughtering everyone (while story mode is active of course) then the evil story arc would be engaged?

This is a REALLY rough idea I had but I hope you get the point I'm getting at... someone else could probably say it better than I can.

Sergi
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#2

Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:32 AM

QUOTE (MichiganMuscle77 @ Sep 4 2008, 01:02)
It's fun to be bad, right? In previous GTA's, the main characters were all pretty relentless in their crimes... but in IV, Niko seems to at least have something resembling a soul. He even at one point states that police are people too, just trying to survive... but I digress.

What if the next GTA had you playing as a good guy for once? A good guy forced to do bad things in order to save a family member/protect a secret/obtain McGuffin?

What if the game was crafted in such a way where if you keep needless killing to a minimum, the story would arc in a path treating your character as a generally good person in a bad situation... but if you chose to run the streets just slaughtering everyone (while story mode is active of course) then the evil story arc would be engaged?

This is a REALLY rough idea I had but I hope you get the point I'm getting at... someone else could probably say it better than I can.

I think the horrible writing, dialouge and over all personality of Niko held him back from truly being an interesting look at protagonist in crime games. For someone who seems to want a different life so much he sure does never think twice about crimes when it's moooneey involved. Also how dumb the whole looking for that "special someone" side story held the game back as well since no actual good or entertaining end came from that and it seemed like a added on worthless side story.

But no I just don't think that idea would work for a GTA. Mainly because of the free roam nature of the game. If the scenario you used happened then there would be no signifigant reason to do any of the numerous crime ridden side things in GTA such as building a criminal empire etc.. Now a game that doesn't have a free roam sturcture then that scenario is highly possible but not for a GTA game.

Now one possible way would be you play a regualr good guy then something bad happenes to the charcter which turns him sour for good. Or you were once a bad guy who transformed into a good guy after a serious situtation that altered your views but you're then forced back into a world you wanted to leave but are so good at it you go back to your old ways.

MichiganMuscle77
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#3

Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:55 AM

Sort of a Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight sort of transformation? That would definitely be a good way to implement it.

I disagree with you on Niko, though, I think he's one of the best characters yet. He was a smart ass and didn't let people f k around with him (how many times did he tell people to just shut the f k up and get in their face when they accused him of things?). I do agree that the way his story ended was pretty anti-climactic... but we'll see what happens if they decide to do more missions in DLC, I guess.

Technically Claude was the most badass because he never spoke, he just did what had to be done... but Tommy was pretty brutal too. CJ was as well, at times... but him begging Catalina not to shoot him was the point at which I considered him to be a pussy.

Gadzooks
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#4

Posted 04 September 2008 - 02:19 PM

Ever play VCS? Vic Vance only was a criminal to help his family. His sick brother and something about his mother..yeah.

D- Ice
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#5

Posted 04 September 2008 - 02:56 PM Edited by D- Ice, 06 September 2008 - 04:01 PM.

Sorry bro, but I must disagree. What will truely drive the stake into GTA's evil, purple heart is this rubbish.
GTA really don't need anymore boring long-term relationships, whether it's with friends to go bowling, GF or the storyline. This is all getting away from the focus of a GTA crime sim, and more into the ballpark of regular Sims.

As radical as it may sound, the only long-term relationship in the game I want is with the gangs and police. Go in relentlessly screwing over gang deals and killing gangsters, and expect a drive-by or enforcer coming your way to set you straight.

Get 3-star wanted-levels every other day, and expect police raiding your safehouse, waking you up before the game saves and forcing you to find a new hideout, before finally being able to save. Or maybe even just tailing you, getting a four/five star wnated level as soon as you do any crime.

That is crime, and that is what GTA is all about. I might go as far as not having a linear storyline at all! cry.gif
It'll be a series of larger, open missions, where you have to go about doing the goal yourself.

Sergi
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#6

Posted 04 September 2008 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE (D- Ice @ Sep 4 2008, 14:56)
Sorry bro, but I must disagree. What will truely drive the stake into GTA's evil, purple heart is this rubbish.
GTA really don't need anymore boring long-term relationships, whether it's with friends to go bowling, GF or the storyline. This is all getting away from the focus of a GTA crime sim, and more into the ballpark or regular Sims.

As radical as it may sound, they only long-term relationship in the game I want is with the gangs and police. Go in relentlessly screwing over gang deals and killing gangsters, and expect a drive-by or enforcer coming your way to set you straight.

Get 3-star wanted-levels every other day, and expect police raiding your safehouse, waking you up before the game saves and forcing you to find a new hideout, before finally being able to save. Or maybe even just tailing you, getting a four.five star wnated level as soon as you do any crime.

That is crime, and that is what GTA is all about. I might go as far as not having a linear storyline at all! cry.gif
It'll be a series of larger, open missions, where you have to go about doing the goal yourself.

I do agree but those elements R* did add mainly with SA didn't take away anything from GTA but added new depth. GFs are a great addition but they just haven't been done right yet. Having a GF that is a lawyer or somethin is nice so you can call and get Wanted Levels take down. R* has added great additions to the franchise since VC all the way up to VCS. I've been very critical of IV but while R* did take away numerous elements they dis add a few good onces and expanded on the few elements they kept.

All the things R* has added has advanced GTA as a series and the genre as a whole. They haven't taken anything away from GTA being a pure crime sim. If GTA didn't add Empire Building, GFs that have gameplay adjustments etc. beleive another company would have.

D- Ice
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#7

Posted 04 September 2008 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE (Sergi @ Sep 4 2008, 10:11)
QUOTE (D- Ice @ Sep 4 2008, 14:56)
Sorry bro, but I must disagree. What will truely drive the stake into GTA's evil, purple heart is this rubbish.
GTA really don't need anymore boring long-term relationships, whether it's with friends to go bowling, GF or the storyline. This is all getting away from the focus of a GTA crime sim, and more into the ballpark or regular Sims.

As radical as it may sound, they only long-term relationship in the game I want is with the gangs and police. Go in relentlessly screwing over gang deals and killing gangsters, and expect a drive-by or enforcer coming your way to set you straight.

Get 3-star wanted-levels every other day, and expect police raiding your safehouse, waking you up before the game saves and forcing you to find a new hideout, before finally being able to save. Or maybe even just tailing you, getting a four.five star wnated level as soon as you do any crime.

That is crime, and that is what GTA is all about. I might go as far as not having a linear storyline at all! cry.gif
It'll be a series of larger, open missions, where you have to go about doing the goal yourself.

I do agree but those elements R* did add mainly with SA didn't take away anything from GTA but added new depth. GFs are a great addition but they just haven't been done right yet. Having a GF that is a lawyer or somethin is nice so you can call and get Wanted Levels take down. R* has added great additions to the franchise since VC all the way up to VCS. I've been very critical of IV but while R* did take away numerous elements they dis add a few good onces and expanded on the few elements they kept.

All the things R* has added has advanced GTA as a series and the genre as a whole. They haven't taken anything away from GTA being a pure crime sim. If GTA didn't add Empire Building, GFs that have gameplay adjustments etc. beleive another company would have.

I do agree with you a lot bro, but the thing is I never understand GF's in GTA. I said this before, but normally I go play GTA to live a different life, or crime and corruption that I wont and can't do in real life - going outside in the middle of the night in some very seedy, corrupt city and see wierd and intimidating criminals do there work, and try scrape a living myself.

GF's aren't something interesting or exotic. I bet three-quarters of people here are dating someone, so what's the point of going back doing your normal life routine in a virtual world made for you to get away from it all? Maybe having a drug-addicted, whore GF that looked like a witch and acted crazy, and helped you with stick-ups and sh*t would be nice - but a lawyer? Some normal girl your cousin introduces you to? confused.gif
I know hard gangsters also have GF like everyone else, but they also take dumps, brush there teeth and maybe floss afterwards too.

Don't get me wrong, I love going out with girls - but isn't it enough of a chore in real life to get to their place, take them out somewhere boring, only for you to hear them yapping on and on and on... about some dumb things you can't give a sh*t about? Besides which, real GF's give you much better rewards than virtual ones - even though I never got ehem... 100% completetion prize yet. sad.gif

So why would I waste my valuable gaming time doing something normal that I haven't fully completed in real life?

Lol, anyways that's my logic, my friend. I'd rather waste that time being bored on a real girl with much better rewards afterwards, rather than a virtual bitch with sh*tty rewards, that takes up my small and valuable gaming time where I try to get away from this sh*t.

D- Ice bravely runs away before the mock-fest of not getting laid by GF yet!

Rucke
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#8

Posted 04 September 2008 - 08:00 PM

Bad guy. Look at Victor Vance, a "good guy" forced to do bad. He was f*cking lame!
Then look at the bad guy and cold blooded characters, they don't care about right and wrong.

MichiganMuscle77
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#9

Posted 04 September 2008 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Rucke @ Sep 4 2008, 20:00)
Bad guy. Look at Victor Vance, a "good guy" forced to do bad. He was f*cking lame!
Then look at the bad guy and cold blooded characters, they don't care about right and wrong.

Well to me, a good guy who is forced to be bad - or rather, becomes bad because of things that have happened to him - is FAR more interesting than some runt who just wants to cause trouble. Gives a greater depth to the character, makes them feel real.

D- Ice
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#10

Posted 04 September 2008 - 10:34 PM

QUOTE (MichiganMuscle77 @ Sep 4 2008, 16:45)
QUOTE (Rucke @ Sep 4 2008, 20:00)
Bad guy. Look at Victor Vance, a "good guy" forced to do bad. He was f*cking lame!
Then look at the bad guy and cold blooded characters, they don't care about right and wrong.

Well to me, a good guy who is forced to be bad - or rather, becomes bad because of things that have happened to him - is FAR more interesting than some runt who just wants to cause trouble. Gives a greater depth to the character, makes them feel real.

I'm really sorry for this man, but I must disagree again here. The "good guy forced to be bad" has already been done like a million times. At first with CJ, then Toni, then Vic it was fine. By Niko, it was still ok, as Niko had a choice to excercise that goodness.

However, being done yet again like Rucke said will just be lame.

How about a guy who wants to do those missions for the same reason as you playing the game. He enjoys seeing another poor sap's brains splattered on all manner of things and wants the money, to spend on the cool things you want to spend that virtual money on. That way your link with the character is optimal - and no more kidding ourselves with the hypocrisy of "he is a good guy really... he does have a soul, it's just that he's forced to kill those hundereds of people to get info on someone who betrayed his unit, leading to the death of 12 guys".

That's as ridicuolous as the US foriegn policies Republican Space Rangers pokes fun out of.

And if you must know [Major GTA 4 SPOILER] I decided to let Darko Bravic live as soon as he said he betrayed you all for a few thousand dollars only. After Niko asked in disgust - sitting on the moral higher ground "only that much", Darko replied "well how many people have you killed? How much do you charge to kill people?". That was the best part of the story after VC and SA protagonist worship BS. It really put it into perspective that Niko is no better than that trecherous junkie.

biggjoshvicecitygangsta
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#11

Posted 06 September 2008 - 09:43 AM

QUOTE (D- Ice @ Sep 4 2008, 14:56)
Sorry bro, but I must disagree. What will truely drive the stake into GTA's evil, purple heart is this rubbish.
GTA really don't need anymore boring long-term relationships, whether it's with friends to go bowling, GF or the storyline. This is all getting away from the focus of a GTA crime sim, and more into the ballpark or regular Sims.

As radical as it may sound, they only long-term relationship in the game I want is with the gangs and police. Go in relentlessly screwing over gang deals and killing gangsters, and expect a drive-by or enforcer coming your way to set you straight.

Get 3-star wanted-levels every other day, and expect police raiding your safehouse, waking you up before the game saves and forcing you to find a new hideout, before finally being able to save. Or maybe even just tailing you, getting a four.five star wnated level as soon as you do any crime.

That is crime, and that is what GTA is all about. I might go as far as not having a linear storyline at all! cry.gif
It'll be a series of larger, open missions, where you have to go about doing the goal yourself.

you are right icon14.gif

MichiganMuscle77
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#12

Posted 06 September 2008 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (biggjoshvicecitygangsta @ Sep 6 2008, 09:43)
QUOTE (D- Ice @ Sep 4 2008, 14:56)
Sorry bro, but I must disagree. What will truely drive the stake into GTA's evil, purple heart is this rubbish.
GTA really don't need anymore boring long-term relationships, whether it's with friends to go bowling, GF or the storyline. This is all getting away from the focus of a GTA crime sim, and more into the ballpark or regular Sims.

As radical as it may sound, they only long-term relationship in the game I want is with the gangs and police. Go in relentlessly screwing over gang deals and killing gangsters, and expect a drive-by or enforcer coming your way to set you straight.

Get 3-star wanted-levels every other day, and expect police raiding your safehouse, waking you up before the game saves and forcing you to find a new hideout, before finally being able to save. Or maybe even just tailing you, getting a four.five star wnated level as soon as you do any crime.

That is crime, and that is what GTA is all about. I might go as far as not having a linear storyline at all! cry.gif
It'll be a series of larger, open missions, where you have to go about doing the goal yourself.

you are right icon14.gif

Don't mean to start an argument here - but just exactly how in the f*ck can you call someone's opinion RIGHT?

Nobody understands the word opinion anymore, it's so god damned frustrating.




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