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GTA 2020

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D- Ice
  • D- Ice

    Gangsta

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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#1

Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:29 PM Edited by D- Ice, 18 November 2010 - 01:43 PM.

Seeing as there's already some threads discussing people's ideas for the next GTA, here's my idea - it was originally inspired by Someguy's GTA 2019, but it takes the dystopic feel way further. His sweeps the bad things of the city under the carpet, while with mine, the carpet's been ripped after years of corruption and violent crime and the scum is all flowing everywhere. I don't really want to post it in the 'create your own GTA' thread because I don't have any specialist art - and don't have a clue how to do that, let alone programming etc...
Also my purpose of making this is more to show you guys the possiblity and potential of a GTA set not only in the near future, but also in a very dystopic/grim place, and also one which is composite of cities from all around the world rather than one city in an econmically more developed country, specifically the US.
Also this wont stand a chance in that competition, and I just wanted to see what you guys of my idea.

And appologise for the ridiculously long text - I've never had a hope in summarising in any language. I added some pretty pictures if that helps. lol.gif
I'll be updating the weapons section real soon, which should give you time to read all the crap I already written. biggrin.gif
Please try to read through it all, and I'll be really interested from hearing all your thoughts on it. smile.gif

Theme:

The theme of this game will be mainly that of awe - from the get go, the super-skyscrapers and other unhumanly feats of engineering, the massive monolithic structures and roadways tens of storeys above the ground - all inspire a sense of greatness. You are religated to a mere worker ant - a tiny cog in the massive complex and elaborate machinary of The City. You start of as rock bottom, but as you climb higher and higher in the ladder of power and criminal influence in this twisted city, the higher and more powerful positions are revealed to you. It's as if climbing the ladder in a thick fog, and the higher you get, the higher up you see the ladder penetrate into the sky - reaching as high as entire governments, and multi-government secret treaties and other entities.

I really enjoyed the whole rackets/empire building in games like The Godfather 2, which were really nicely done to simultaneously provoke great action and cunning tactics. I would really like something similar done in this GTA, except maybe take each dimension deeper. Instead of just either generic guards and the much more powerfull made men, there can be multiple classes of each one. There can be everything from stereotypical retro pop culture street punks wearing leather and latex clad like Fallout Raiders, to professional Private Military Contractor or Private Army Mercenaries guarding the businesses. That way you have a lot more to consider when attacking/stealing from/spying on a busines. I don't like the whole idea of taking a business over - it's way too unrealistic. Maybe businesses can be set up in any property in the game, and a tactic could be to destroy competition, spy on them or steal from them.

Another vital theme is that of fear from consiquences of your actions, as I also explain below. You should always be vigilant in the game, as gangs which you piss off will not only act badly towards you in missions like in IV - or merely shoot you on their turf in previous games. They will do anything from sending a bunch of street punks to rough you up in the early stages of the game, to drive-bys by street gangs later on. Piss of very powerfull organised crime syndicates, and expect hitmen to tail you till you go into a secluded spot, or bust into your safehouse if you show them it and whack you. You will have the option to hire vital protection at a price - without which your survival is a lot less likely. These can be anything from the lowly street punks to harass anyone into leaving you alone, to armed thugs and later in the game even VIP bodyguards to even special forces diplomatic-type protection if you can afford it. However, as you become more powerfull, so will the people you will likely upset - and extremely powerful organisations will also make use of very well organised co-ordinated assassination attempts using trained, lethal assassins, death squads, suicide bombers and even black ops to take you down.

Your relationship with the criminal organisations and even legitimate ones and law enforcement should always be dynamic and with consiquences.

Another theme I like is that of intelligence gathering. In real life you will never know the exact location and movement of enemy target vehicles in the city - nor will you even know how the vehicles look like. I am all for blips to show you locations relative to you - GPS is already a major help with this in the real world, but things like enemy vehicles and hodeouts are different. You have to find a way to gather your own intel on these during missions (which will br fully integrated into normal gameplay), adding a lot of extra fun to the genre.

Maybe you have to buy a van and hire some rogue ex-CIA agents to kidnap someone who might know info you need, and through an interrogation.torture mini-game you get the info. More commonly and earlier in the game you can just intimidate people to give you info, tail people, or attch GPS beacon devices to their cars or maybe shoot it using a special gun. All these will add a lot more variety and fun to the now over-done "Drive from A to B, kill a ridiculously large number of gangsters, drive to C, mission passed" crap.

Main Character:

It is hypocritical and childish to even try put any charisma or likability to any psychotic mass-murderer protagonist.
"Oh, he came to X City to leave behind him a life of crime, but due to unfortunate circumstances, family and loved one pressure etc... he was forced back into murdering thousands of gangsters, cops and civilians just to appease some people or save the lives of a few loved ones."

FFS, come on R*, none of us are that childish, and superficially idealistic. This is all pretentious crap that has made me dislike every GTA protagonist since CJ, who was perhaps the most hypocritical of all protagonists. He has no problem with mass genocide in the streets of the city and murdering innocent witnesses for corrupt cops just to save the life of his brother. But "dope slangin'" is a non-no! How narrow-minded can you be?

My favourite protagonist was Claude from GTA 3 - he had non of those hypocritical "good-guy on the inside forced into a life of crime by the real badguys" facades. He was himself a badguy, doing everything ruthlessly just for cash, because he likes killing those people and just to further his own agenda in a twisted city full of ruthless degenerate psychotic murderers.
This is what I want R* to bring back in the next GTA.

The protagonist will also be a guy with very little to no backstory, whose just very tough and good with melee fighting, runs/swims etc... like an athlete and is good at shooting.

He simply does jobs for gangsters for two reasons - money and because he enjoys seeing a fellow human's guts and brains splashed in the streets. He is a simple mercenary or gun for hire. I know loads of you will think this is boring and wont allow for interesting story, but I disagree completely.

This will allow you to bond with the character better than ever like with Claude, as you are both in the same position and he doesn't have any different an emotional attachment to the story as you. All he sees is exactly what you see. Also, the story should shift from it being just your story to those of your many criminal employees - just like with GTA 3. It's very interesting going back to a mission to see what will become of your employees and how their stories intermingle. Also it'll be great to just sit back, and watch the fireworks their story interactions have (GTA 3 Yakuza/Cartel gang war).

That way, our connection with him is optimal - we are playing the game for exactly the same reason he's living his life. We like killing those virtual enemies and running away from the cops so we can get money and because we like it. All GTA's since GTA 3 have miserably failed to provide good things to spend your money on, but the next GTA should be very different. Also like him - our connection with any storyline is purely that of what we see gangsters talk about in cutscenes and their stories. Both you the player, and the character are in exactly the same place when watching the cutscenes. You have no backstory so you can have a grudge or liking on someone - all your character knows is exactly what you know from the cutscenes and the story, and you both go back for more missions out of curiousity of what happens. Therefore, in essence, you feel as if that character is you, and your connection is much better than that of sympathising with a character with his own back story like a friend, as with Niko for example.

Also, I don't want him to 'Be the King of X City' at the end. No rags to riches. There should always be people - even after completing the game 100%, who are 'above you', who have, thanks to your exploits as a worker-class criminal, made it much bigger than you. You are no longer the biggest benefactor of your actions, but the others who sit behind a legitimate desk and act as philanthropists are - just like the super villians in films. Except there's no good guys to save the day here.

You Play Carlos Gonzalez. He was a low-life thug in South America, who moved to Nowhere City in 2020 due to drying up of his income from stealing cars, simple-stick-ups, break-in robberies and helping in the counterfiet black market - thanks to an increase in security. His old country's government signed new contracts with American and foriegn private security firms - including their near-immunity and extra rewarding for every "vermin of society and economical parasite" they arrest or kill. This new brutal security crackdown caused many of Carlos' thugs and allies to be shot on site while commiting a crime or running away - and he had to endure seeing many of his friends and thugs, who he virtually brought up, being dragged away dead and bleeding into vans to be taken for identification by the cops, so the Private Security can get their bonuses. He went into hiding for a couple of months, which exhausted virtually all his money, drug and jewelery savings. He became very desperate and had to leave. He got together his very last money - and was forced to pull off one last con - but this time on his surviving nearest and dearest friends and family - to get a plane ticket to the cheapest and easiest city to get to, that spoke either English Or Spanish - Nowhere City.

Consiquences.
Fear of consiquences is what I think the GTA franchise is really missing. Freedom to do whatever you like is nothing without realistic corresponding consiquences - where is the fun of pissing off different gangs and criminal organisations, or the city's law enforcement if is is always forgive and forget as soon as you manage to lose the immediate heat or get busted/wasted?

Other games have been doing that for years now - I remember the Scarface game and the gang/cop heat and how despite being able to kill just as much as GTA and do a lot more things to piss them off like drug dealing, you actually avoided it and are always trying to reconcile them in order to avoid the consiquences.

The consiquences there were overly simplified and shallow, but imagine if they expanded upon it in GTA. Pissing of a gang by doing jobs for their enemies or by acting against them in out-of-mission activities like damaging/taking over their businesses or fighting for thugs who work for them will mean corresponding consiquences during your free-roam and mission gameplay.

You could become notorious and prevented from entering or beaten up and shot when you do enter any of their businesses or properties. Street gangs and hoodlums will chase you through the street or much worse - start gunning for you on sight. You can even have hits put on you - from crude street-gang drive-bys to thugs being sent after you by organised crime syndicates to co-ordinated assassination attempts when yu get on the wrong side of more powerful groups.

This can apply to police as well - from busts on your safehouse that wake up up before you get up (and the game is saved) and you have to manage to lose the heat or stay alive at the least. Imagine how much fear you'll have every night before you sleep (and save the game after major achievements), just like real criminals. You will be forced to investigate every suspiciously parked van incase it's got survailance personnel in the back, and in cars you'll be looking back to see if you're being tailed all the time.

That truely will be the ultimate crime game IMO.

Storyline.

In terms of the all-important antagonist in every GTA game, I want someone who you have no personal hate of.

Someone you manage to kill after so long, in return for something really not worth it - a disproportionately small amount of money or upholding of your word to someone.
So at the end you're asking "why the f*ck did I bother with this?"

Even better if there are multiple antagonists, and towards the end of the game you have no antagonists per se, just things you have to take care of. Maybe you attempt to fight off the inevitable which you have brought upon yourself via bad choices or greed. Maybe the antagonist was your past self and the bad choices you made if they really want to make for an interesting adult storyline.

Maybe you create an enemy to give your own existance purpose, and create hate - a vital proactive emotion - so to help develop and advance your own agendas. Ever seen the film Memento - the protagonist of the game can be similar to the film's, except for the amnesia.

I want a much deeper storyline and protagonist-antagonist relationship past the pathetically overdone superficial betrayal, clear-cut hero vs. villian crap. I want to question the morality of the protagonist as well - and if done excellently, the character should be questioning himself at the same time. There are no good-guys and bad-guys in the real world, just shades of grey, and I am way too sick and tired of that same sh*t being pushed down my throat by media left, right and centre.

First Mission
Just playing Bioshock recently, and I absolutely love the style of the introductory thing there, so mine would be similar to that. This is the first mission, which starts without a cutscene or anything - you know nothing about the character.

You start of as a passenger of a plane heading to Nowhere City, 2020. It will be in first-person view, just like the deafult taxi view in GTA 4. You score the window seat in economy class, next to a very elderly Eastern European woman, who through conversation is revealed to be Niko's mother - a nice little early easter egg, and reward to us GTA OG's. biggrin.gif

As the plane circles the city, you get a spectacular areal view of a lot of the city. But this is quite short, and interupted by clouds, smog and other distractions, so will be mainly a tease. You see breathtakingly unworldly feats of engineering with the super-sky-scrapers with their intimidating designs, and parts of the city entirely man-made - raised from the sea floor. Through the announcements from the speaker during this time, you get the basic feel of this modern multicultural Babylon - through facts like the weather, the demographics/culture etc...

The plane eventually lands, and as it's taxing across the yards to dock at those passage thingys that attach to the plane (lol don't know name in English blush.gif ), you get a glmipse of just how massive this airport is - airplanes taking off and landing in queues/lanes like flying traffic jams. Later, making your way through those passages to get to the airport after the plane docks you see a few a couple of armed guards and a soldier outside, guarding the airport and workers. This is the first omen that maybe not everything is perfect in this seemingly utopian mega-city of the future - but then again, you know this is GTA.

After the smartly-dressed attractive flights attandants help you out of the plane, you walk into the airport. Absolutely massive with a very high roof and a spaghetti of hanging walk-ways and levels/platforms that intimidatingly dwarfs the people into looking like ants - each going to their destination. Very clean shiney marbel floors, colourfull wall designs, the sickingly optimistic posters and massive hellish-looking statues just add to the awe.

You get to the checkpoint stations, manned by a fat, sweaty, fatigued and red-eyed officer with a short-tempered attitude whose trying to be as professional sounding as possible, but bursts of frustrated shouts complete with gestures manage to break out every now and then with the passengers before you.
To Be Continued...

Mission At About 70% Completeion.

A mission could be like someone very important has been kidnapped and the gang are demanding a massive ransome. You have to get that ransom - which is a suitcase with something extremely valuable thats gonna get transported from a gang's brothel that frints as a very hot downtown nightclub. They also tell you a test run will take place the very next day.

Now if you go to that and alert them, security will be much tighter when they actually transport the stuff. But without going there, you wont know the route they'll take. You decide to go there. You also notice the truck is gaurded by moderately heavily armed security guards (the best security in the game short of Mercenary Contractors). They have SMG's and shotguns, though you don't see any bullet-proof vests being worn. You decide to go there, where you get to see the route they transport it, as well as the emergency protocol incase the armoured truck gets attacked.

For extra help, you may opt to hire thugs. These are very cheap and available from your nearest street corner, but they have next to no skill. You can hire professional bodyguards, but these wont ever attack or do anything illegal themselves, but they will protect you when you are under attack. Also, bodyguards' job is to ensure your safety, and will opt to whisking you into a getaway car and driving you the hell out of there rather than completing the job - but unlike thugs, they wont attract cop heat. Alternatively, the most expensive choice is hiring hitmen - though you either need to be with very good terms with some gang so you can hire them, or have your own crime organisation which is next to impossible.

Finally there is the actual jacking of an armoured, bullet-proof truck. You try ramming the truck, and it speed off and heads to the private security HQ, where it will be protected by an army of (respawning) security guards armed with SMGs. Enter that place and you automatically get a three-star wanted level as well. Outside on the streets, cars with hitmen start persuing you. You lose them or kill them, more will be dispatched throughout the city, so you're not safe anywhere except if you have an guarded compound where the gun-battles between the hitmen and your expensive 24-hour guards will inevitably get police attention - your only safe haven is a police station, which you'll have to leave sooner or later.

Another approach will be to use stealth, but you have no silenced pistol. So you have to do a bunch of favours for a gun smuggler or pay him up the ass so they'll get you it. You also get a ski-mask to hide your identity, as well as investing in buying a Stallion - a fast and durable car. You ram the truck so as to trigger the emergency protocol of speeding to the security HQ. As soon as that happens, you speed there before the truck arrives and break in through the sewage system. Once inside you can sneak around, silently dispatching inconvenient guards and get in the heavily guarded truck. You will automatically get a three-star wanted level once the alarm is raised and a bunch of armed guards will start shooting at you with their SMGs, but luckily the truck is bullet-proof. Once outside, cars with hitmen inside will join the chase, but as soon as they start shooting at you, the cops will divert their attention to them.

In the ensuing destruction derby/shootout between cops and hitmen chasing you, you are able to lose them and dump the truck. You take back alleys, fire exits and rooftops all the way to your safehouse, avoiding streets and patrolling cops. However the hitmen are drawn to the radio signal a device in the suitcase keeps emitting - so you'll see their cars screeching to a halt near your location as the start vigilantly looking for you, as you sneak on the rooftops. If you are good, you should avoid engaging them, as it will inevitably also attract police heat. You successfully get to your safehouse, take off your ski mask and change your clothing so the cops wont recognise you anymore, and if you haven't openly commited homicide, no forensic team investgations to deduce your identity beyond the mask will take place either.

You hire bodyguards and attempt to take the suitcase back to your contact, as the hitmen will still be coming after you. You can also try staying close to cops so that when the hitmen start shooting at "a defenceless civilians" they will get the heat instead, and will be kept busy in their shootouts with the cops. You get to your destination, see a cutscene, and they release the important person they've been holding for ransom. Mission complete.

Location:
The City/World City/Unnamed City/[insert good name here] City. 2020 smile.gif
The whole point of this city is not to be specifically based on a real-life city, but rather encompass a very average and general world city - or supercity/Metropolis of the future. It will have parts similar to many different cities in the world today, but in their predicted future forms, tilted to the dystopic pesimistic side of things. Unlike many future-dystopic cities which are cold and dark, this city has a very warm and humid climate - more like Vice City or South America than Northern USA or Europe.

Central Business District:

user posted image
The very centre of the CBD, occupied by a great monolithic Tower Of Babel that dwarfs all other massive surrounding structures. This is the kind of dystopic yet awe-inspiring atmosphere of the city - the rampant uninhibited progression of man and his greed. I also love the sheer verticleness shown in this picture and the hanging roads tens of storeys above the rest of the city. Imagine carjacking someone there, or having a sniper take potshots at you from one of those roads while being utterly too high up for you to shoot back at with your gun.

Pic: CBD

Pic: Rusting City
^ Ignore the flying cars, this is the kind of archetectural and atmospheric rusty brown/orangyness I want in the CBD at daytime from all the concrete and rusting steel of all the superstructures, as well as the smog and pollution that turns the sky agloomy blood-red/orange color at daytime. Maybe something like the beta GTA shot below. I also love thearea under the tracks - an urban degeneration oxymoronically juxtapositioned right underthe sparkling superstructures of the future metropolis. The city's scum and societal ratholes underneath the shiny clean floorboards of the mansion, figuratively swept under the carpet.

Pic: Blood Sky
The smog and pollution from years of environmental ignorance and apathy makes the city an near-uninhabitable cestpool. The sky is blood red almost everyday even at noon, reflecting the blood seeping from each of the city's orifaces, needlessly shed continuously throughout the city's history to keep it running under it's own corruption.


This is a massive CBD based on that of Hong Kong, with massive ultra-modern style skyscrapers hundereds of meters tall, bright lights and giant billboards and TV screens advertising goods and playing the news. The very wide boulevards are dwarfed into looking like alleyways due to the sheer height of the buildings, and are choke-filled with the more luxury taxi-cabs of the city, including NYC-style minivan cabs. Fast food kiosk sellers line the sidewalks selling all types of international foods like Middle-Eastern Falafel, Chinese Noodles and spicy indian snacks. People on the streets wear smart clothes - but of all cultures, from Emerate style bleached white Dishdashas to more Western suits. The speak many different languages, or English with very thick accents - but are all united in their understanding of making as much money by any means. This place is a real Tower of Babylon!
The place is generally less assciated with violent street crimes and gangs - the worst you'll see are people selling counterfiet goods, pick-pockets who prosper amongst the robot crowds crossing the roads and taking their lunch-breaks all at the same time, and taking sanctuary among the by-passer effect. People walk past a stabbed and bleeding fellow human being as if nothing happened - hoping some other fool will be forced to sacrifice their precious half-hour break from the office calling the emergency services. Despite looking like an econimic libertarian's heaven of ligit business making it big, Masonic-like secret societies intent on bizare political goals have their claws dug deep into many businesses.

Poor Areas:

user posted image
Heavily armed thugs carry their weapons in the open with near impunity while guarding key areas in the deepest parts of the ghettos where police very rarely patrol.

Pic: Vertical Ghettos

Pic: Industrial Packing of the poor

Living in a world where 80% of humanity all share just 20% of resources between them, the poorer areas of the City will be enourmous to reflect this. Massive housing projects tower throughout the ghettos, giving them a superficial look of modern urban regeneration. But like everywhere else in the city, the rot's on the inside. Corruption lies in the very construction of these towering apartment blocks, which constitute the mere industrial packing of the masses in urban decay for farming as cheap labour and crime statistics. The already poor tenants are f*cked inside and out with rent vastly inflated by corrupt locality rent supervisors, not shy to use backhanded methods to extort money from tenants, including the use of brutal private projects/neighbourhood security guards as their muscle.

Facilities inside are horrendously substandard to what the government promised due to bureaucratic and corporate corruption while building them - not that the government isn't slightly corrupt themselves. Lifts often don't work, water in some places is dirty and can causes diseases, heating of the buildings always malfunctions and is often not repaired throughout winter - often for years.
Dispite being filled with poor areas, most towers have their own private security who often also misuse their powers to line their pockets by bullying tenants. This further makes obscelete the roles of the police force in even this crime-ridden area, and so furthers their retreat from the city streets.

General maintenance of facilities in the whole area is a foriegn concept here. Sidewalks are often left permanently dug up from workers who simply give up due to very bad wages, or as a way for the firms to extort more money from the already struggling city - they dig up random bits of the streets in the hope the council notices it and hires them to fix it.Scams and fraud is the mainstay of most employments here, further reflected by the black market and counterfiet goods contituting more of commerce here than their legal counterparts.
Expect pedestrians and market stalls intermingling with traffic in the crumbling street systems, with overflowing sewers like a typical flifth-ridden Indian street. It's adviced to stay in your vehicle at all times despite the subsequent traffic jams to avoid the dirty, diseased and desperate locals and stepping on the hypodermic needles everywhere.

Once inner-city parks like Central Park have now been transformed into Rio de Janiero style illegal favelas and shanty-towns populated by the homeless, who have since started building their own permanent residences here. Though the lack of all professional urban planning and building expertise has left most of these illegally built areas with horrendous accessibility. Only motorbikes and thin individuals can comfortably fit through the alleyways here.

All over the poorer districts, bums sleep on the floor, covered by cardboard - the insomnia of other nights awake fearing being set alight by right-wing psychos tring to give the city a better image for the 2020 Olymics to be held there, kidnapped by renegade doctors of harvest organs, or anally probed by reptillians in league with the NWO. lol.gif

These districts are home to mainly low-level street gangs - but the once rich and powerfull Mafia families have been condemned here after the organised crime crackdown in the 80's and 90's which left all the big players in the Suburbs jailed or gunned down. Now they have been cut down to their roots in the Little Italy districs where it all started the first time in the 30's. Italian street gangs once used to do dirty work for mafias are rising up to become organised themselves - having learned from the mistakes of their predecessors. They are now much more determined and violent than ever.
In that time, some Black street gangs have also made it big, and are forming Organised crime syndicates of their own which Rival the Mafia. However, only the most Hardcore 'Old-schoolers' have remained in the poorer neighbourhoods now.

Indian/Pakistani/Bangladesh/Afghani street gangs are the new botom-feeding thugs now.

Suburbs:

Pic: The rich make their own land from the sea

Pic: Luxury Condo towers

This is where the richest 5% or less live in Ostentatious Mansions with swimming pools and armies of servants. The mansions come in all sorts of shapes and styles - all based on their owner's sick fantasies. You'll see streets of traditional European style mansions, streets of Arabian Palaces and Oriental Palaces, complete with their own private shrines and elaborate water features amongst beds of flowers and exotic plants.

Pic: European-style Mansion. The cultic symbols hint something darker within the superficial tranquility
This place is guarded by it's own police force of Private security gaurds, mercenary contractors and ex-special Ops bodyguards to protect the much worthier lives of the VIP's within the gated communities.

Pic: Gated Comunities - a protective cacoon to prevent crime entering from outside, and dirty secrets and corruption from within exitting
This nature, greenery and sheer beauty of these districts gives it a feel of a Utopia a world away from outsides gated community cacoons. But don't be fooled, the land is artificially reclaimed and created - like those of the Palm Islands in the UAE, and have destroyed much more valuable and beautifull underwater corel eco-systems paradises, and corruption, violence and inhumanity lies in the belly of every mansion.
The Masonic and Cult signs on many mansions, along with the oxymoronic presence of ugly statues also hint at a darker presence. Luckily, dillusional drunk hobos and conspiracy theory nuts are not allowed into the gated communities.

Weapons:

Dual-wielding should return, but only for very high weapons skills like with SA. Though I really dislike the whole over-done RPG element, they could probably have say three weapon skill levels for each weapon rather than the whole overly accurate percentage scale.
Even better is that can be implemented to all armed NPCs as well.

The first level would be rookie, and for handguns, you hold and fire them with one hand 'gangsta style' without being able to move while doing so. The second level is the advanced level, where you hold them with two hands similar to GTA IV, as well as being able to move and fire them. The final level should be called elite where you are able to dual-wield handguns.

For rookie level, two-handed weapons cannot be accuracy/zoom aimed and only generally aimed at a direction and fired from the hip. Adavanced/experienced level should be where you can aim and fire weapons properly, but only when stationary. Finally the elite level is where you can properly aim the gun while stationary and fire it from the hip while moving.

Special NPCs, like Black Ops for example, could also have an unattainale gun skill, where for example they can run, properly aim a gun and fire all at the same time. Or maybe even dual-wield the SMG. ph34r.gif

Pistols:

- Cz110, FN FNP-9M or another Modern Pistol: The basic firearm in the game and the first that you'll acquire. Standard pistol of the police forces and many gangster also carry it, including as a back-up weapon alongside other firearms. Most other law enforcement agencies, Private Military/Security Contractors and armed groups (later on in the game, especially at civil war period) will also use this as their standard sidearm. One of the most encountered firearms in the game - not only is it very common in the first half of the storyline/difficulty levels, but it is also used extensively in situations where you're unaware and not carrying other weapons (you can't go for a meal packing an assault rifle under your coat!). The pistol can easily be brough from any legal gunshop without the need for special licenses, and is so also used extensively by civilians throughout the city to protect their homes, businesses or just their asses on the mean streets!

- Smith & Wesson Model 500 or another type of modern revolver: A very powerfull modern revolver that packs a massive punch. However rate of fire and clip size is sacrificed for this due to it's massive reciol and large rounds. This is very rare and expensive. It is usually only found on wealthier, more influencial and pretentious individuals who generally will tend to have enough bodyguards or protection not to seriously need to consider the combat effectiveness of their own weapon - it simply will serve as a shallow symbol of their manliness and status.

- Modern Silenced Pistol: Modern silenced pistol, complete with a laser pointer. This is not just the silenced pistol with a silencer, it is much more powerfull (as powerfull as the Revolver) and has a massive clip size. This is extremely rare, and friends or foes packing it will likely be both serious, prepared and professional. If you manage to get an enemy who has it, consider yourself lucky that time, as chances are the next silenced shot will come straight from the dark to your brain.


SMG's:

- Steyr TMP or another modern Micro-SMG: The Micro-SMG in the game. Very high rate of fire and concealability make this a favourite amongst all gangsters from the very lowly and unorganised street thugs for hire to the organised mafias-like gangs in the city. This weapon is also loved by VIP bodyguards due to it's concealable firepower, as well making a great sidearm and back-up weapon that doesn't compromise firepower and bullet volume too much.


- SP-10 (the SMG of GTA IV) or another modern SMG: The standard SMG in the game, high rate of fire with moderate accuracy and stopping power. This is extremely common in firefights throughout the game due to it's sheer effectiveness in urban combat, aswell as local production and the fact that it is concealable if you have the right clothing (long trenchcoats). This is used and loved by all gunmen - from street gangsters to those working for organised crime syndicates; from security guards to SWAT teams and even the military. Problem is it lacks range and sheer firepower of assault rifles, so is often interchanged with the AKMM when combat is open.

- Modified AKMMU: A shortened and modified version of the AKMM. This is the best SMG in the game - it has been tweeked to have a very high rate of fire (much higher than that of the SMG), aswell as retaining the high-velocity assault rifle ammo, though the ammo this uses is incendiary version and will burst inside the unluck victim, turning their organs to mush. This has been fitted with a laser pointer making accurate aiming a lot easier, as well as a silencer so not to attract attention and amke covert operations easy. This weapon is extremely rare - so much so to almost Easter Egg status, and is only used by the elitest of the elite - who also happen to be extremely covert. ph34r.gif

Shotguns:

- Pump-action: The pump-action shotgun from GTA 3. This is the standard, most commonly used shotgun in the game and is available from gunstores everywhere. It is used extensively by cops and security guards as their standard teo-handed weapon, as well as more heavily armed law enforcement and armed groups - especially by officers/team leaders - as an old reliable and very effective close quarters battle weapon. This weapon is also used by civilians like the pistol, to defend their homes and businesses.

- Sawn-off shotgun: The classic ideal for any quick hit. This weapon's very large pellet spread and extremely powerfull blast makes it a one-shot, one hit, one kill weapon loved by Hitmen and Death Squads alike. Even targets who aren't downed for good in the initial blast and those wearing bullet-proof vests are thrown onto the ground by the sheer force of this weapon, and incapacitated for a while - giving you precious few seconds to finish them for good. However it's very large spread means it's useless in any situation where you're not close and personal with your mark, and the long reload time from its from bone-jarring recoil will mean your target can't be aware of their messy demise. This illegal shotgun is rare, and is only found on enemies meaning business - if your not blown away before you notice the suspicious behaivior of the same guy whose been tailing you for a couple of blocks.

- Super Shotgun: A near-prototype full-length, fully-automatic shotgun fed from a 40-cartridge drum magazine. It fires incendiary buckshots that combine both the spread of a conventional shotgun with incendiary rounds that will explode on contact - blowing up and setting alight whatever they hit. This is another near-Easter-egg weapon - a nice little present for managing to get the extremely elite, well-trained and lethal owners killed, as these brainwashed and ridiculously motivated combatants wont drop their gun until completely dead - and then some.

Assault Rifles:
- AKMMS or a more modern version of AKM/AK103: A new reincarnation of the legendary Klashnikov series of assault rifles that has now taken the world by storm. Unprecedented reliability, ease of use and availability of both ammo, as well as a market saturated by ridiculously large numbers of this weapon mass-produced means that this weapon is proudly following the footsteps of if forebearers. However unlike them, this weapon has a completely different, innovative and ingenius new mechanisms, as well as different ammo and is also not made in Russia, but China. This is the most common assault rifle and two-handed weapons (long-arm) in the game, and becomes especially prominent in the second half and the civil war stage. Dispite lacking in accuracy, rate of fire and generally being a no-frills weapons, you will often find yourself time and again swapping a better weapon for this simply due to the vast availability of ammo from fallen gunmen and it's reliability.

- XM8 or another Modern Specialist Assault Rifle: With partial zoom like M16 in GTA3 and laser pointer. This is the much better assault rifle with a much higher rate of fire and accuracy, making it much more suited for long-range engagements. It's major shortcoming though is it only fires in three-round bursts to preserve it's pinpoint accuracy. Reliability is also considerably less with this weapon compared to the AKMM. Being such a specialist, technologically more advanced and expensive weapon, you'll encounter this weapon a lot less throughout the game. It is mainly carried by both highly military trained and very well funded heavily armed-enemies. Not even the country's/city's military can afford issuing this weapon to all troops - you'll probably only see infantry team leaders/officers and special forces (death squads, black ops and commandos) carrying this weapon. Very large shipments being smuggled into the city have been recently siezed, with no progress being made in deducing the recipients due to the sheer professionalism and intelligence of the smuggling operation. Many more such shipments are thought to be arriving into the city without being caught and the government is in a state of shock and panic at the possible intentions and consiquences behind the operation.

Snipers:
- Standard Sniper Rifle:
- Special Sniper Rifle: Semi-auto, silenced with aim-assist. Much less powerfull than Standard Sniper Rifle.

Heavy: PKM machinegun, LAW rocket launcher, fixed minigun.
Thrown: Molotov Cocktails, Hand Grenades, Smoke&CS Gas Grenades.

Misc.: Satchel Charges with remote detonation, car-bombs with cell-phone detonation (8-Ball returns! biggrin.gif ), Combat Vest (increase maximum primary weapon ammo limit, worn as clothes item), and bullet-proof vests.

Maybe also R* can make up their own futuristic weapons too, instead of relying entirely on current real-life weapons. I included the AKMS as it's the world's most populat weapon, and has been for quite some time, so I really doubt it'll loose popularity or commonness in twelve years' time.

The gangs would be realistically armed with the smaller weapons - the much heavier weapons will only be used by the Army, and Paramilitary groups and Mercenaries aliied with various criminal organisations, who'll you'll only encounter much later on in the game, as the city breaks into almost civil-war status.

Law Enforcement:
To be honest, I don't really like to go back to the US-based/1st world country Law enforcement system. I think we need a very different, much seedier and futuristic one. I haven't really thought of the star system - as I'm not really sure I wnat it again. Maybe now we can have (finally) parallel fighting/investigating law enforcement, which I suggested way back for GTA 4. Basically, the harder you fight the law directly (ie rampage), the harder the fighting system (SWAT, Army etc...) comes after you to put you down. And the harder you fight intelligently (ie do crimes but don't get caught), the intelligence system (Cop detectives, National intelligence, international military intelligence) comes after you. Here's just some of the ones I can think of from the top of my head:

•Police: These are the most common law enforcement who patrol the streets. Being the future dystopia world city this is, they should be generally badly funded, and be more like 3rd world police forces. About 1/3 of the cops wear full uniforms and have full equipement such as an equipment belt, special cop gun holster, torch, and a nightstick or taser. The other 1/3 should have minimal equipment due to shortages. They have no uniform and are fully dressed in civilian clothes - just with one of those police polyester rain-jackets on top of their tops, or just a blue cap that says 'police' on it for recognition. The only equipment they have is a pistol tucked into their pants or in a pocket. The other 1/3 should be like the minimal equiped cops, but with a ragtag of police or old military equipment - one or two things like a police equipment belt, a blue cop top or smart navy pants, or a green military equipment belt with military-style pockets or boxes, or even a camo cap. The police are also handing a lot of their work to private contractors and mercenaries (thus allowing Vigilante style missions like with GTA4.

You should also often see private contractors or even mercenaries patroling and doing operations with police. They should be based on generic security guards wearing similar to police, and more heavily armed operatives based on Blackwater mercenaries.

• SWAT:

After a rarely successfull police raid on a small ghetto SPANK factory, SWAT examine the corpse of a gunned down thug.

The bodies of SWAT and thugs are taken on a pickup truck to the police station for identification.

These are the armed police response teams who are called in during firefights. These should also be as badly funded as their patroling counterparts, with some just looking like civilians with a combat vest and ski-mask. Thses should be armed with flash-bangs as well as their primary weapons which they use when raiding buildings.

• Death Squads:

Death squad gunmen disguised as civilians

These should be the hardest law enforcement to fight per operative. Virtually all have full bullet-proof armour, and much better shooting skills than you will ever be able to master during the game. There method of fighting is also the least conventional, including drive-bys, sniper assasinations, car-bombs and even suicidal tactics. They consist of top-secret government black-ops, who have been conditioned and engineered mentally, physically and even chemically and genetically from a very young age. There main priority in life is to get the job done and have no fear of death.

• Army:

Soldier on patrol

This is the country's military force, and consists of a very generic world military force, rather than the American military, who use both Western and Eastern-manufactured weapons. They are generally quite badly armed but well trained. They wear mainly woodland camo, but a lot of soldiers wear that with a ragtag of other camo schemes like a desert camo combat vest, a blue bullet-proof vest or a SWAT-style black helmet. Also some wear some civilian clothes, like a tracksuit pants etc... These aren't the hardest to fight per soldier, but with the maximum wanted level, they are called in very high numbers. They also have a disregard to collateral damage, and will often just shoot in your direction to suppress you and keep you in hiding. Unlike the other law enforcements, they also operate in much larger squads of up to ten soldiers, and all work together and follow an officer, who wears a distinguishable red beret.

Star System For Direct Law Enforcement.

Police Forces.

1 star - Perpetrator. Cops try to arrest you, using non-lethal force only. Similar to GTA 4.

2 star - Dangerous assailant. Cops will shout at you instructions to surrender while aiming their guns at you. If you wont comply, they will repeat one or two times before opening fire on you. Their main aim though is still to take you in alive.

3 stars - Wanted, dead or alive. You have demonstrated yourself to be willing to fight back the cops. A police manhunt has been put out on you, and back-up police units have been called up to support the patrol/beat cops. These guys wont be any better armed - they will also just wield Pistols and Shotguns - and they wont have the now useless non-lethal weapons like batons and tasers. Police will now fire at you without instruction or warning to prevent you puting society or them in danger. Unless you surrender on your own, they will keep firing at you until you're wasted or incapacitated. Police helicopters will now help out by chasing you, hovering overhead and directing ground units to your location. They will not contain sharpshooters or fire at you.

4 stars - Danger to society. After trying to arrest you for a felony and then numerous calls to comply, you decided to carry on and even fight back the law - and not only that - you have also outgunned the cops. So now SWAT teams armed with SMGs, AKMMSs and shotguns have been deployed to help them out. Police helicopters will not contain sharpshooters armed with assault rifles who will also engage you. Nearby normal cops will cower behind cars and slowly retreat, leaving the fight to the better armed and trained SWAT teams.

This is the furthest a very good GTA player can achieve on their own. Maybe a cap should be placed on the wanted level like other GTA games when on the First Island, but this time when you are fighting on your own. To unlock and get higher wanted levels, you need to be fighting in a group - at least when you first get them. If your group members die, you will keep the unlocked wanted level, but wont be able to get a higher one on your own again.

5 stars - Last ditch police efforts. The highly trained SWAT teams failed to contain the crises, so now police forces from all over the city have been called in to assist. Beat/patrol cops, back-up police officers, detectives and even undercover units will be ferryed in police vans to your position to join the SWAT and the fight. Despite being less well trained and armed, their sheer numbers in addition to the SWAT already there fighting you will make this significantly more challenging.

Government Forces.

You've got your own private army of heavily armed gangsters or even a full-fledged militant or paramilitary force that managed to defeat the entire law enforcement of the city, reducing even the SWAT teams to cowering, legging it in retreat or begging for dear life, you are taking over The City. Your wanted level vanishes - you aren't a criminal and the law isn't after you anymore. It has been brought to the attentions of the country's government itself now - this is war!

I am not enitely sure how this should be organised - either it should go to one of the two ways like with the NOOSE and FIB in GTA IV, depending on some behaiviour during the escalation. Or alternatively, one should follow the other, like the FBI and Army in previous games - which one coming first I am also not sure about.

Army. It turns into open, all-out warfare. The fight is directed to the military command of the country, and the military is deployed onto the city. Being based on a generic world city, it will have the 3rd world trait of a very badly funded and equipped military, where the law enforcement units which you previously defeated being recycled to help out in this war. Police units with military training will be taken under the command of the military, and they will be given AKMMS assault rifles and combat vests, and adopted into military squads. So you will notice loads of badly equipped soldiers wearing a mis-match of different camo schemes - some with parts from the police uniform and SWAT combat vests, helmets and fatigues. Though they will all fight together in the same squads of 8-11 soldiers, and are all similarly armed.
The army will be by far the best armed opponent, as well as the most numerous and most organised in fighting in tight squads. They will also have different classes -
- Normal Soldiers/Grunts armed with AKMMS assault rifles, and some will carry grenades. They wont have bullet-proof vests.
- Squad Leaders will wear distinct red berrets. Armed with the Advanced Assault Rifles, grenades and smoke/tear gas grenades. They will wear light or heavy bullet-proof vests.
- Heavies will be big, burley soldiers, usually wearing some urban camo schemes. They will be armed with either LAW rocket launchers or Machine Guns.
- Snipers will wear usually black fatigues and spawn on rooftops to take you out. They will be either armed with the Standard Sniper Rifle or the Advanced Sniper Rifle.

Like law enforcement, all the military classes will have a back-up pistol.

The army will also have Rhino Tanks (bullet and explosion proof) which will (bloody finally) actually shoot at you with their cannons. There will also be APCs (bullet proof, not explosion proof) and Barracks OLs (nothing-proof) both with heavy machineguns that will carry an entire squad inside. Helicopter Gunships will replace police helicopters, and will rain a terror of rockets onto you.

Secret War. This is inspired by the Cold War and CIA secret and proxy wars. Command of the war will be handed over to the country's Military Intelligence Agency. As soon as you reach this, there will be a deathly calm as police forces retreat. No immediate deployment like with other forces, the government doesn't want this escalation or the failure of the law enforcement to become widespread and known. You wont be blamed for thinking the fight is over and you won, as normality is regained after the fierce firefights seaze and give way to the ambient sounds of the city.

But don't be fooled, they just want to catch you off-guard! Snipers are quietly deployed to every other rooftop, and ambushers in unmarked cars or on foot are around every corner.

The entire City's CCTV, as well as a plethora of newly deployed Secret Agent, wire-tapping and UAV survailance has all been handed over to a top-secret government super-computer with state-of-th-art visual, voice and biochemical recognition software. This super-computer will gather intelligence on you 24/7 - basically all previous stealth strategies in the game are now useless, as the Super-Computer schemes the most strategic and tactically intelligent plots against you. It will always be one step ahead of you - wherever you go, there will be an ambush waiting for you.

Special Forces Agents/Government Death Squads with heavy bullet-proof vests and some of the most specialised and powerfull weapons in the game will be deployed after you. These will also be the best trained and most highly skilled NPCs in the game (maybe except for Black Ops who will be more of an Easter Egg), and will have weapons skills such as accuracy during full-auto fire much higher than you will ever be able to attain. In an open one-on-one fight with one of these guys, it will be impossible for you to win, and can only defeat them by grossly outnumbering them with your squad. They usually fight and ambush in groups of 2-4, and are often undercover as civilians or gangsters.

Proxies will be used left, right and centre - criminal gangs of the city, guerillas, militants, mercenaries and paramilitaries will all be used as cheap, unexpected cannon-fodder to bolster the numbers of the Special Forces Agents.
- Hitmen will usually be used from the City's organised crime syndicates, and will come to openly fight you.
- Large squads of 6-11 Militia Fighters and/or Mercenaries will also come to directly engage you. These guys will be all significantly worse armed and trained than the military, but will also have large numbers.

The point of this wanted level is that the exceptionally desperate government will start using very unconventional tactics to take you and your private army down - including drive-bys, assassinations, car-bombs and suicidal tactics.

Some of these do sound extreme and very unrealistic, but the game should be designed so that even the best GTA players can't get past three or four stars alone. 5-7 stars should be reserved against big groups of people who law enforcement is fighting, whether they be under your command or just gangster baddies. 7 stars should be a hidden wanted level - only really unlockable during the civil war period, or if you single-handedly keep recruiting more and more mercenaries and get them to fight the government forces.

They can very easily do all that with the GTA 4 engine, as they do something similar with all NPC's.

Parallel Investigative Gang/Law Enforcement Wanted Level System:
I really love the idea of a parallel wanted level system of sorts. Cops, SWAT and Army come after you immediately when you're doing your rampages, and after you get away, FBI and CIA investigate your crime depending on how serious and bring back a wanted level on you if/when they find you.

Imagine getting away from the SWAT team in a mission and saving in your safehouse, and once you get out to get to your next mission, a black car is tailing you. As soon as you do anything wrong, you get your 4 Star level straight back, and you have to loose them before you get to your contact.

The exact same can go for organised crime gangs, the Mafia can also tail you in exactly the same looking black cars, but as soon as they suspect you, a van appears from a nearby street and starts tailing you. As soon as you stop, hitmen wearing ski masks and all black burst out the back and either smash your car up with baseball bats, pull you out and beat you up, or just start shooting at you in later stages.

What could be incredible in this is cross-over tactics. Some dirty CIA agents might use Mafia-style hitmen to make it look like a mafia rather than government hit, and Mafia in cahoots with the cops might get them to put a wanted level on you. So at the end, you'll never know whose after you, and always have that suspicious feeling someone's tailing you just like real criminals.

Also raid should work like this. When your saving in your safehouse, the screen goes black and either the save menu pops up, or it shows a bunch of Cops/SWAT/gangsters breaking into your place. The game is not saved, and you must kill them all or escape in order to have another chance to save the game. Imagine how f*cking nerve-shattering that'll be.

Also more and cooler enemies to dispatch.
This nicely leads onto my next idea...

Enemy Classes.
One of the most things which I find extremely annoying in GTA games, and perhaps one of the most things which ruins the games for me is the lack of different enemy classes.
Basicly, what I mean by this is in virtually all games where you fight and have to dispatch many enemies, as the game progresses, you will have to confront progressivly harder enemy types. This is the case of most shooter, for example in Bioshock, you first have the Thuggish Splicers, then the Lead-Head Splicers with guns, then the Nitro-Splicers with their grenades. Later on there's also the Spider Splicers and the scary-as-f*ck Houdini Splicers.

In GTA games, enemies are usually always either different gangsters or the law enforcement from free-roam gameplay. With the gangs, you always just fight 'gangsters', that is the normal grunts who roam the streets. Very rarely on special occasions, in missions only, you will confront a 'boss' for that gang.

Needless to say, that is very unrealistic - gangs are not just comprised of just one or two bosses and legions of armed fighters. Also it is very boring and gets extremely tedious fighting 'gangster' after gangster - with just their style of clothing differing from one gang to the next. In real life, crime organisations are a lot more structured, especially organised crime syndicates.
A good example would be the game The Godfather 2 - there the inclusion of a nice simple gang structure of Made-Men and grunts makes gameplay a lot more fun and realistic. Another effect is to make the game a lot more tactical - you need to actually think and use your brain and not just your trigger finger - somethign which I also believe is severly needed in GTA. Now just imagine how much more fun, realistic and tactical the game will be with a significantly more complex system of enemy classes.

So my idea is to devide each crime organisation into different classes, each with their own function and relevance to the overall function of the syndicate. I don't propose having a unique structure for each gang, but rather general structure/template for each type of crime syndicate. All street gangs have a similar structure, and so do all organised crime syndicates.

[OTHER ENEMY CLASSES WILL BE DONE HERE.]

Maybe also "Super-soldiers" as an easter egg if your just that ridiculously good at GTA. They could be genetically, chemically and psychologically engineered and enhanced soldiers - hell maybe they could even have robotic limbs and run exceptionally fast etc. Anyay, those should be more of an Easter Egg for those who the game just can't stop, and they'll be able to kill you instantly with their super-human powers lol.


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Guns In The Trunk And Shootouts.
I completely agree with you there - that whole magic asshole thing that can fit all the weapons is just pure ridiculous now. It is one of the most things which ruin game immersion for me aswell.

Having guns in car trunks will only enhance gameplay and immersion IMO. Having guns stashed in cars will only serve to make you notice and consider cars and you weapons choices much more, imersing you much deeper into the environment and gameplay situation which you are now forced to continually consider and survey. It will also add a nice tactical edge to the game - a limited arsenal at any one time will mean you have to consider and understand the weapons you have a lot more too, picking the one most suitable for your situation, rather than having everything and blindly cycling to the most powerfull weapon until you run out of ammo.
Similarly, they should make gun ballistics a lot more realistic so that different weapons are good in different situations - rather than the M4 being the best weapon in virtually every encounter.

The new direction in gameplay this will present will also be a welcome fresh breath of life in the now overdone run-and-gun commando gameplay of the franchise - which became very tedious (for me anyway) a very long time ago - even at the time of SA. Not being able to hide large, more powerful weapons completely (and thus attracting a lot of unwanted attention), and only being able to carry one at any one given time, keeping the rest in car trunks, will complicate the gameplay and make it much more interesting than the now over-simplified "scroll to most powerfull weapon, aim and shoot" gunfights, which I seriously can't stand anymore.

Also, I personally advocate for much more realistic and therefore difficult enemies. You can't take on dozens of enemies single-handedly in a five-minute gunfights and win. Now the aim is not to kill every single person ina gunfight, but simply defeat them - enemies should be made able to flee when the feel outgunned, and you will need a squad of other men with you if you want to even stand a chance of winning any gunfight. Shootouts should also be made much longer, especially with military-equipped/trained enemies later on in the game, with longer ranges of engagement and more use of suppressive fire.

Fugitive And Raids.
I dislike how you own permanent safehouses in previous games. I want to be running from one place to another like a proper fugitive from the law and criminal rivals.

If your heat gets too high, or your whereabouts are discovered, you have to move into another safehouse or risk yours being raided. Raids could work by being while you are sleeping/game is saving. If you are raided, cops/hitmen bust into your place, and you have to lose them and find another place. After the screen goes blank after you go to the save icon, a short cutscene is shown, and you are thrust back into the action of escaping WITHOUT the game saving. So you have everything to lose if you fail. Imagine the tension and fear everytime you go to sleep.

Though this is only for extreme cases if you let your heat reach too high, or if you disregard survailance and stay in a single place for too long.

Other Crimes.
Now, do you even know the ballistic differences betweenb a Glock 22 and a Beretta, except the fact that they are different looking guns?
Would it even make the slightest difference if an enemy has a Glock or a Beretta? They are both 9mm semi-automatics, and thus fulfil the same niche in a crime-based video game. GTA is not, and I hope will never become, an accurate gun-totting ballistically infallable shooter. It is a crime game, and as such should be focused on crime.

And since you horrendously fail to make the distinction between crime and gun violence, do you have any idea just how much of all criminal acts revolve around firearms? The answer is a ridiculously negligable amount - so much so that I believe many GTA titles' centering on gunplay is their biggest downfall.

You are completely right in saying GTA should be focused on crime, and I completely agree with you on that. But crime is only very rarely shootouts - and when these happen most criminals worldwide use the same guns; 9mms, SMGs and AKs and sometimes shotguns. The game should also accurately cover other crimes such as theft, racketeering, blackmail and other types of violence, in addition to the gun violence which it seems to be ridiculously centred on.

These can all be made into really fun games and side-missions - I absolutely loved the Home Invader mission and side-missions in GTA SA. Imagine others for all the other types of crime, it'll really make GTA so much better than it currently is IMO.

Character Design.
Wait Niko isn't emotional enough for you? CJ isn't enough of a whiney (and ridiculously hypocritical bitch) enough?

The thing is if they try to convey a mass-murdering psychopath with any emotions or any sense of morality (ie making the protagonist the "good-guy"), the game and storyline will automatically lose all credibility and feasibility when just a few minutes after you are butchering dozens of men for something extremely pointless and an othewise wothless amount of money.

I think R* should man the f*ck up and realise GTA is based on a mix of psychotic homocide, moral corruption and greed which shrouds all normal common sense. The protagonist should therefore be designed appropriately as a mass-murdering scumbag for hire, with manic dreams of even more power. It is for this reason I found the silent hitman (claude) from GTA 3 to be by far the best-designed protagonist - his entire existance reflecting the seedy surroundings around him.

Past Organised Crime.
I think the whole pop-culture based organisedcrime syndicates thing now is really wearing out, and becoming really tedious. It has all been long exhausted by GTA, let alone the plethora of crime games out there which your average gamer would have completed.

What GTA needs to focus on is new types of crime organisations, which will freshen up the atmosphere in the game, as well as make it better anchored in the current reality of crime. Today, the likes of the Italian American and Russian Mafias are merely an image of an era long gone, the remenant crime organisations bear very little resemblence to their predecessors and are meerly bottom feeders in the ladder of organised criminality.

I want to see much more powerful, shadowy and darker crime organisations; ones which extensively cross over into the fields of politics, military and legitimate big business and which are centred on much more sophisticated and higher objectives - past just making money and working only with those of their ethnicities.

I am talking about organisations like the Columbian Cartel working with the CIA, or the Almeidas in The Godfather 2 Game working to spread Fidel Castro's ideologies and influence into the US.

Death Games.
I loved the gore and horrific seediness and degeneracy of creepy almost urban-legend like dark death-games like slash TV in LCS.
I'd love to see a return of it, but maybe also they could expand on it, to have vehicle-based death games in dark, grimey abandoned warehouses, with Mad-Max or Death Race style, post-apocalyptic themed modified war machines smashing into each other. Maybe there can be crazed and drgged up madmen and hobos with chainsaws and flamethrowers thrown in as human game.

All of course for the entertainment of the evil, sick and sadistic psychopaths who also happen to be some of the richest and most powerfull individuals in the city, who spend millions funding such degeneracy in order to fulfill their darkest desires/fetishes.


TT1987
  • TT1987

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#2

Posted 26 July 2008 - 06:45 PM

Sooner or later we'll probably have a GTA that takes place in 2020

02134
  • 02134

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#3

Posted 26 July 2008 - 06:47 PM

There is a GTA 2019 already, but I like how this one is sort of diverse using some pics from Dubai and some of other places.

lloydo
  • lloydo

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#4

Posted 26 July 2008 - 07:42 PM

From the bright city it looks as if the future has found a way of preserving valuble energy. ph34r.gif

D- Ice
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#5

Posted 26 July 2008 - 08:31 PM

@TT1987: I personally hope sooner biggrin.gif - maybe the next GTA. I'm kinda tired now of it being set in the past/present.

@02134: Thanks man, that's my idea of having a composite city with parts based on all sorts of cities from around the world to enhance the feel of eacdh district. Poor district is based on the worst poor district there are while the rich one is based on the riches ones there are, so each will have a very strong feel.

@lloydo: Lol, but thats a very good idea. I would imagine a future dystopic world to have energy shortages - especially with the way the current world is running out of resources with increasing fuil charges etc...
It'll be very GTA if all suddenly all those glistening building's lights go out due to power cuts due to shortages. lol.gif

Flesh-n-Bone
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#6

Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:03 PM

That's what I call creativity, you really have a fresh idea! rolleyes.gif

Tony Mozzarelli 80
  • Tony Mozzarelli 80

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#7

Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:57 PM

really like the idea, i'd definitely buy it.

Don't like to nit-pick, but surely you meant 20% of people control 80% of wealth, as opposed to the other way around

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#8

Posted 27 July 2008 - 03:01 AM Edited by Mr. Someguy, 27 July 2008 - 03:09 AM.

QUOTE (02134 @ Jul 26 2008, 13:47)
There is a GTA 2019 already, but I like how this one is sort of diverse using some pics from Dubai and some of other places.

I tolf him he can make a new topic. I like the idea, but it doesn't fit with my idea too well, so I gave him the go-ahead to create a sperate version. smile.gif

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#9

Posted 27 July 2008 - 03:18 PM

QUOTE (Tony Mozzarelli 80 @ Jul 26 2008, 17:57)
really like the idea, i'd definitely buy it.

Don't like to nit-pick, but surely you meant 20% of people control 80% of wealth, as opposed to the other way around

Thanks very much bro, glad you liked it.
I put it the other way around to give it from the perspective of the poor people in the poor areas, because when 20% own 80% of wealth, the remaining 80% all have to share the left over 20% - still shows how unequally things are shared. smile.gif

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#10

Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:48 AM

Wow good but old topic man. I like the 7 stars. And without looking at the pictures your descpirtions have given me good thoughts.

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#11

Posted 23 November 2009 - 05:23 AM

Very nice, just like the enemy classes topic. Maybe members of your group (you referred to the character having cronies a fair bit) could be turned against you for another level of difficulty. Or if the hidden package system from previous games is back, the weapons you unlock could be sabotaged: barrels filled with sand, ammo replaced with blanks or even replaced with replicas.

10/10.

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#12

Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:35 AM

Sorry but I stoppedreading when you said dull and gritty.

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#13

Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:20 AM

QUOTE (ViceCity09 @ Nov 23 2009, 10:35)
Sorry but I stoppedreading when you said dull and gritty.

facedesk.gif this is why good thread's die.

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#14

Posted 26 November 2009 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE (iamanevilbastard Posted on Nov 23 2009 @ 01:23)

  Very nice, just like the enemy classes topic. Maybe members of your group (you referred to the character having cronies a fair bit) could be turned against you for another level of difficulty. Or if the hidden package system from previous games is back, the weapons you unlock could be sabotaged: barrels filled with sand, ammo replaced with blanks or even replaced with replicas.

10/10.


Agree! I find this very interesting and would make the game much different from what we're use to.

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#15

Posted 26 November 2009 - 03:33 PM

No way GTA is not set for this in my opinion.

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#16

Posted 26 November 2009 - 07:50 PM

I like how you havn't given up and have added to the topic. Please continue. Good threads shouldn't die.

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#17

Posted 27 November 2009 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE (iamanevilbastard @ Nov 23 2009, 00:23)
Very nice, just like the enemy classes topic. Maybe members of your group (you referred to the character having cronies a  fair bit) could be turned against you for another level of difficulty. Or if the hidden package system from previous games is back, the weapons you unlock could be sabotaged: barrels filled with sand, ammo replaced with blanks or even replaced with replicas.

10/10.

Thanks man, I really can't believe anyone remembers my enemy classes topic, let alone likes it, thanks for that mate, it really made my day despite all the uni work I'm way behind schedule on lol. I'll try integrating that thread's ideas with this one, as well as the idea I had of a GTA where missions are completely integrated with freeroam gameplay. I remember all the awsome discussions and ideas we came up with in 28RedEyedCrows' topic.

I really love the cronnies turning against you idea. My focus on the game even from then way back was to have a lot more team-combat as opposed to you being the lone gunman with superhuman powers against countless enemies. i just felt that kind of thing has long since become a Hollywood cliche. I'd much prefer it that you always have a squad fighting alongside you in firefights. At first you'll simply be a hired gun, but in the later stages of the game, you will be able to command them with simple commands - and hell - even hire your squad, how many people you'll have fighting for you and what type of weaponry they have. You can also have your own classic badguy squad of bodyguards to escort you anywhere you go when your notoriety levels mean you wont stand a chance roaming the streets alone. There can be different firms offering different types of bodyguards - from simple thugs in suits to ex-elite special forces armed to the teeth.

pcguytech_2005: Cheers bro, I'm very glad someone else likes my ideas, I'll try following your advice and keep updating this thread so that it might stand a better chance to get considered when I submit it to R*. And thanks very much man for the bump.

bobgtafan: Thanks, I'm so happy you like my idea and thanks for the original bump. I kinda completely given up on this over a year ago when it seemed no-one had the attention span to read it all the way through let alone the intelligence consider it. I really shouldn't have completely given up on this thread, and I would probably have tried to resurrect this topic had I seen your post which bumped it before.

Anyway, thanks for all the support guys, I am a bit bogged down with uni rubbish right now, but I will try updating this thread and adding to it whenever I have time. I'll also let you guys know what sections are updated to save you checking the whole first post. And please, I am really interested in hearing in any ideas you guys have.

UPDATE:
- PICTURE LINKS FIXED AND NEW PICTURES ADDED FOR 'CBD AREA' SECTION.
- POOR AREAS SECTION RE-WRITTEN.
- GUN DESCRIPTIONS ADDED.

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#18

Posted 27 November 2009 - 02:15 AM

aghhhhh i dont want you to think I'm sh*tting on your idea at all! I wouldn't have read it if I didn't find interest wink.gif

It would work IF they took an artistic approach to what the world might be like in the future. I see the movie "Idiocracy" as a companion in genre to GTA, but placed in the future.

That said, I would really like GTA to remain a stab on things I have seen and see in these days in media, and not go into the imaginary - I very much think GTA works because "It's funny because it's true!"

I think your game - even if it took place in the GTA engine and was kinda like Bully in that way - would be worth WAY more to the consumer and the company that made it with a different name attached to it. Like, you could go soooo many places with this idea but so much so that maybe GTA would actually end up holding it back.

These are awesome, I wish a game like this would come out more often, and futuristic stuff like this is really lacking lately (it's usually a different kind of futuristic in modern games - aliens and such) and I wish someone in the executive offices would bite your ideas, because that would be a KICK ASS game - just would be so hard to write a GTA game around it and remain authentic feeling. Unless, as said, it was artistic rendition of where our idiocracy we live in today may be headed (like the movie)

6 stars = army - man i hope that happens in GTA some day (not just a rhino and barracks cruiser).

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#19

Posted 29 December 2009 - 05:39 PM

Nice ideas. But i will only disagree with the main character. For a charecter to induce sympathy and empathy, and thus to make the viewer/reader/gamer connect with them, they must have traits that everyone does. Being a little sadistic is fine, but most people (truly) would be horrified by seeing brains etc on the street. Film and games glorify violance and gun crime, (which i think, as you would have read in my topic, the guns should really make you jolt - shake screen etc). Obviously GTA always will glorify this, as thats the game, but the charecter must have a purpose - a quest.

With niko, his story is started by having his comrades killed/coming to america.
His goal, his purpose is revenge.
Johnny's, as my interpretation went, was to keep the MC together and stable, with a peace with the AOD.
Luis, being the weakest story, didnt really have any motivation aside from helping tony.

What you said about antagonists, i think you'd support your charecter taking down a corrupt city government, to liberate a town in ruins. (robocop anyone?) No personal vendetta there (Though that is often what drives the charecter imo. Nikos story was solid, if you immerse yourself in it, you feel for him and support him. The best stories are the ones where the charecter drives you through it, not the missions. making the gamer want to go through anything for the goal, Nikos storyline did that for me....)
I like the Pruit Igoe style Vertical ghettos - would offer some interesting interiors - but possibley become too generic....

All except the limited charecter development i think would be awesome,
Not sure if GTA as a series would be ready for this just yet - everyone seems to want to sunny shiny fairytale style that SA/VC offered.
I think your idea would suit perhaps GTA V (using the theory that GTA V will be on the NEST gen colsoles - PS4/Xbox sh*t20 or wehatever)



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#20

Posted 29 December 2009 - 05:53 PM

It's not the best topic i have seen from MY point of view, but i have to say it is very decent making is respectable, I like your Idea, especially since your trying to see what the future for the criminals would be like, nice imfomation, detailed, a good topic icon14.gif

I just dont like the whole future thing too much because we dont know to much about it, but i like the concept still form a different angle, well done.

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#21

Posted 29 December 2009 - 06:01 PM

This is petty awesome. I like it, but perhaps the city that the game is set in could be called Carcer City?

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#22

Posted 30 December 2009 - 01:35 AM

i too would love to see the next gta based in the future around a massively diverse and corrupt super city. i would like to see the visual stylings change into a more detailed and stranger part of the game. the city of lost children has amazing visuals as does erasure head, blade runner, sin city, casshern etc etc. id love to see a bizzare and trippy gta game with the certain fantasy elements a city based in the future would bring it could be incredible. also with it being a diverse dystopian city this could free up the characters design ie because the city is more diverse and not based on the way the world works now then this would make it far easier for a custom designed character of your choosing to work within the story. id like the next gta to be a much more nihilistic and deranged affair with more time put into to design/customisation and multiplayer

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#23

Posted 31 December 2009 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE (Tony Mozzarelli 80 @ Jul 26 2008, 22:57)
Don't like to nit-pick, but surely you meant 20% of people control 80% of wealth, as opposed to the other way around

Double nitpick... they mean the same thing biggrin.gif

OT: There are some REALLY excellent ideas in the OP - I really hope that Rockstar have a lot of stuff like that on the GTA:NEXT design board!

I think the thing that's been most disappointing for ME (my opinion only) in GTAIV is the difficult in identifying with the player-character. Luis has been the most likeable of the three, but it's something that could do with more work. CJ has (still my opinion) been the most identifiable so far.

The police ideas look good too. It would be nice to see them taking 'persistent' routes from their patrol points (as it would with ambulances and fire engines) rather than spawning just around the corner.

Thinking out loud... it would also be cool if occasionally officers attempted random stops on random cars (including yourself). If you know the FBI haven't got anything on you then sit and produce your driver's licence... or put your foot down!

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#24

Posted 01 January 2010 - 04:32 AM

Amazing. If this was made i would buy it for sure. The setting is good too.

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#25

Posted 01 January 2010 - 09:54 AM

I just dont think this is the way to go a mean it worked with two but not IV.

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#26

Posted 19 January 2010 - 04:14 AM

Damn, I can't wait to see add on's to this thread man. Keep up the work.

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#27

Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:20 AM

It would be nice, if some GTA game would be some far away in the future. Something like in between 2020-2030?

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#28

Posted 14 March 2010 - 09:24 PM

You should check out Jean Pierre Juenet and Marc Caro's 'City of lost children' there is no better example of noir dystopian imagery.

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#29

Posted 15 March 2010 - 01:18 AM

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time and interest in reading my massive first post and keeping this topic alive.

I am unfortunately really bogged down, and streesing over all sorts of things at the moment, but I will try my very best to reply to all comments and answer all questions as soon as i get some time.

All this time I have been trying to fix and add to my original post, and will try to continue so, especially with a much needed summarisation - something I am dreadfull at lol. I'll also try to post the updates in new posts to make it much easier for all of you to seethe changes.
Taking of which, I have recently completely revamped and replaced the wanted level system design. Please tell me what you guys think. smile.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Star System For Direct Law Enforcement.

Police Forces.

1 star - Perpetrator. Cops try to arrest you, using non-lethal force only. Similar to GTA 4.

2 star - Dangerous assailant. Cops will shout at you instructions to surrender while aiming their guns at you. If you wont comply, they will repeat one or two times before opening fire on you. Their main aim though is still to take you in alive.

3 stars - Wanted, dead or alive. You have demonstrated yourself to be willing to fight back the cops. A police manhunt has been put out on you, and back-up police units have been called up to support the patrol/beat cops. These guys wont be any better armed - they will also just wield Pistols and Shotguns - and they wont have the now useless non-lethal weapons like batons and tasers. Police will now fire at you without instruction or warning to prevent you puting society or them in danger. Unless you surrender on your own, they will keep firing at you until you're wasted or incapacitated. Police helicopters will now help out by chasing you, hovering overhead and directing ground units to your location. They will not contain sharpshooters or fire at you.

4 stars - Danger to society. After trying to arrest you for a felony and then numerous calls to comply, you decided to carry on and even fight back the law - and not only that - you have also outgunned the cops. So now SWAT teams armed with SMGs, AKMMSs and shotguns have been deployed to help them out. Police helicopters will not contain sharpshooters armed with assault rifles who will also engage you. Nearby normal cops will cower behind cars and slowly retreat, leaving the fight to the better armed and trained SWAT teams.

This is the furthest a very good GTA player can achieve on their own. Maybe a cap should be placed on the wanted level like other GTA games when on the First Island, but this time when you are fighting on your own. To unlock and get higher wanted levels, you need to be fighting in a group - at least when you first get them. If your group members die, you will keep the unlocked wanted level, but wont be able to get a higher one on your own again.

5 stars - Last ditch police efforts. The highly trained SWAT teams failed to contain the crises, so now police forces from all over the city have been called in to assist. Beat/patrol cops, back-up police officers, detectives and even undercover units will be ferryed in police vans to your position to join the SWAT and the fight. Despite being less well trained and armed, their sheer numbers in addition to the SWAT already there fighting you will make this significantly more challenging.

Government Forces.

You've got your own private army of heavily armed gangsters or even a full-fledged militant or paramilitary force that managed to defeat the entire law enforcement of the city, reducing even the SWAT teams to cowering, legging it in retreat or begging for dear life, you are taking over The City. Your wanted level vanishes - you aren't a criminal and the law isn't after you anymore. It has been brought to the attentions of the country's government itself now - this is war!

I am not enitely sure how this should be organised - either it should go to one of the two ways like with the NOOSE and FIB in GTA IV, depending on some behaiviour during the escalation. Or alternatively, one should follow the other, like the FBI and Army in previous games - which one coming first I am also not sure about.

Army. It turns into open, all-out warfare. The fight is directed to the military command of the country, and the military is deployed onto the city. Being based on a generic world city, it will have the 3rd world trait of a very badly funded and equipped military, where the law enforcement units which you previously defeated being recycled to help out in this war. Police units with military training will be taken under the command of the military, and they will be given AKMMS assault rifles and combat vests, and adopted into military squads. So you will notice loads of badly equipped soldiers wearing a mis-match of different camo schemes - some with parts from the police uniform and SWAT combat vests, helmets and fatigues. Though they will all fight together in the same squads of 8-11 soldiers, and are all similarly armed.
The army will be by far the best armed opponent, as well as the most numerous and most organised in fighting in tight squads. They will also have different classes -
- Normal Soldiers/Grunts armed with AKMMS assault rifles, and some will carry grenades. They wont have bullet-proof vests.
- Squad Leaders will wear distinct red berrets. Armed with the Advanced Assault Rifles, grenades and smoke/tear gas grenades. They will wear light or heavy bullet-proof vests.
- Heavies will be big, burley soldiers, usually wearing some urban camo schemes. They will be armed with either LAW rocket launchers or Machine Guns.
- Snipers will wear usually black fatigues and spawn on rooftops to take you out. They will be either armed with the Standard Sniper Rifle or the Advanced Sniper Rifle.

Like law enforcement, all the military classes will have a back-up pistol.

The army will also have Rhino Tanks (bullet and explosion proof) which will (bloody finally) actually shoot at you with their cannons. There will also be APCs (bullet proof, not explosion proof) and Barracks OLs (nothing-proof) both with heavy machineguns that will carry an entire squad inside. Helicopter Gunships will replace police helicopters, and will rain a terror of rockets onto you.

Secret War. This is inspired by the Cold War and CIA secret and proxy wars. Command of the war will be handed over to the country's Military Intelligence Agency. As soon as you reach this, there will be a deathly calm as police forces retreat. No immediate deployment like with other forces, the government doesn't want this escalation or the failure of the law enforcement to become widespread and known. You wont be blamed for thinking the fight is over and you won, as normality is regained after the fierce firefights seaze and give way to the ambient sounds of the city.

But don't be fooled, they just want to catch you off-guard! Snipers are quietly deployed to every other rooftop, and ambushers in unmarked cars or on foot are around every corner.

The entire City's CCTV, as well as a plethora of newly deployed Secret Agent, wire-tapping and UAV survailance has all been handed over to a top-secret government super-computer with state-of-th-art visual, voice and biochemical recognition software. This super-computer will gather intelligence on you 24/7 - basically all previous stealth strategies in the game are now useless, as the Super-Computer schemes the most strategic and tactically intelligent plots against you. It will always be one step ahead of you - wherever you go, there will be an ambush waiting for you.

Special Forces Agents/Government Death Squads with heavy bullet-proof vests and some of the most specialised and powerfull weapons in the game will be deployed after you. These will also be the best trained and most highly skilled NPCs in the game (maybe except for Black Ops who will be more of an Easter Egg), and will have weapons skills such as accuracy during full-auto fire much higher than you will ever be able to attain. In an open one-on-one fight with one of these guys, it will be impossible for you to win, and can only defeat them by grossly outnumbering them with your squad. They usually fight and ambush in groups of 2-4, and are often undercover as civilians or gangsters.

Proxies will be used left, right and centre - criminal gangs of the city, guerillas, militants, mercenaries and paramilitaries will all be used as cheap, unexpected cannon-fodder to bolster the numbers of the Special Forces Agents.
- Hitmen will usually be used from the City's organised crime syndicates, and will come to openly fight you.
- Large squads of 6-11 Militia Fighters and/or Mercenaries will also come to directly engage you. These guys will be all significantly worse armed and trained than the military, but will also have large numbers.

The point of this wanted level is that the exceptionally desperate government will start using very unconventional tactics to take you and your private army down - including drive-bys, assassinations, car-bombs and suicidal tactics.

Some of these do sound extreme and very unrealistic, but the game should be designed so that even the best GTA players can't get past three or four stars alone. 5-7 stars should be reserved against big groups of people who law enforcement is fighting, whether they be under your command or just gangster baddies. 7 stars should be a hidden wanted level - only really unlockable during the civil war period, or if you single-handedly keep recruiting more and more mercenaries and get them to fight the government forces.

They can very easily do all that with the GTA 4 engine, as they do something similar with all NPC's.

------------------------------------------------------------------

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#30

Posted 15 March 2010 - 02:58 AM

Wot a dumb fukin game that would be bro. No offense but seriously, 2020? That would suck my !^*$%, I like modern day GTA's like 2010. Buck dich tounge.gif




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