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The Goal of Complete Freedom

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D- Ice
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#661

Posted 02 August 2008 - 04:11 PM Edited by D- Ice, 02 August 2008 - 04:14 PM.

QUOTE (28RedEyedCrows @ Aug 1 2008, 10:03)
D- Ice: I like your idea of the special ops.  It's like a combination between the CIA and Universal Soldier. lol  If police actually had to hunt for you, and you had a carried wanted level, (where you could still get away from the cops, but every time they spotted you, your big wanted level would come back if you had one) then these 'CIA' guys might actually track you down at random (or because you gave away your position somehow) and try some of those tactics.  You can imagine your guy waking up and seeing another guy standing over him with a silenced pistol, or having to watch for drive-bys and car bombs.  We wanted this for other things too, like rival gangs coming after you, but it'd  be a lot more frightening to know it's a covert government organization.  Sounds kind of miserable in a GTA, but if you're THAT wanted, it might be pretty cool.

As a side note: it would be cool too if you could have some kind of hideout in the woods/desert/etc.  You'd be like a mafioso or terrorist in hiding.  (or Rambo biggrin.gif   icon14.gif )

Thanks bro, I love your idea too. In fact, I was writting something similar in the wishlists before IV came out.

I really love the idea of a parallel wanted level system of sorts. Cops, SWAT and Army come after you immediately when you're doing your rampages, and after you get away, FBI and CIA investigate your crime depending on how serious and bring back a wanted level on you if/when they find you.

Imagine getting away from the SWAT team in a mission and saving in your safehouse, and once you get out to get to your next mission, a black car is tailing you. As soon as you do anything wrong, you get your 4 Star level straight back, and you have to loose them before you get to your contact.

The eaxact same can go for organised crime gangs, the Mafia can also tail you in exactly the same looking black cars, but as soon as they suspect you, a van appears from a nearby street and starts tailing you. As soon as you stop, hitmen wearing ski masks and all black burst out the back and either smash your car up with baseball bats, pull you out and beat you up, or just start shooting at you in later stages.

What could be incredible in this is cross-over tactics. Some dirty CIA agents might use Mafia-style hitmen to make it look like a mafia rather than government hit, and Mafia in cahoots with the cops might get them to put a wanted level on you. So at the end, you'll never know whose after you, and always have that suspicious feeling someone's tailing you just like real criminals.

Also raid should work like this. When your saving in your safehouse, the screen goes black and either the save menu pops up, or it shows a bunch of Cops/SWAT/gangsters breaking into your place. The game is not saved, and you must kill them all or escape in order to have another chance to save the game. Imagine how f*cking nerve-shattering that'll be.

Black Ops should be reserved for just the very most serious crimes against the government or secret Max-Payne like Masonic secret societies with links to the Country's government. The great thing is this could work in both 1st and 3rd world settings, and both in Urban and Rural areas.

Also more and cooler enemies to dispatch. biggrin.gif

Tony Mozzarelli 80
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#662

Posted 02 August 2008 - 09:34 PM

Het D-Ice, you're definitely on the same page as we are haha

gtaman4523
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#663

Posted 02 August 2008 - 10:21 PM

i have an idea : say if you get busted you would be sitting down in the back and you have to find a way out. eg , kicking the crap out of them or taking keys while they climb out to get donuts biggrin.gif

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#664

Posted 02 August 2008 - 10:28 PM

I want smart police that do things like come down a ladder from a helicopter onto your car and the cop starts trying to break your window open while your driving and get in the car.

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#665

Posted 02 August 2008 - 10:33 PM

Yeah i'd like it if the police were a bit tougher. It would be nice if when you're on 1 star, they could run a lot faster, so you might get caught and tackled to the ground. also if they could use environment as a weapon same as you, that would make for some intersting fights, like the warriors

28RedEyedCrows
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#666

Posted 03 August 2008 - 05:47 PM Edited by 28RedEyedCrows, 03 August 2008 - 06:07 PM.

I got started writing and I couldn't stop!!!! nervous.gif Though I think the people who've stuck with this topic are used to it! tounge2.gif

Tony: You know, the police in 'IV' (except for the fat ones!) are actually pretty fast. When they are really running after me, I'll find myself having to stop and take a breath so I can get going again, maybe even having to fend them off. I think they just suffer from the fact that they just point the gun at you and don't actually tackle you, which is what we want. Once they get close to you, that's it unless you run in which they shoot, even if you're unarmed (stupid). You know, you don't get that sense you're really struggling with them or anything, or about to get brought down. If they eased up on the guns, (they've always overused the guns in GTA) and used batons and stuff, it'd be a lot better.

02134: lol, smart police? I think that's more like action movie police! biggrin.gif But, that would be really cool. I hope with this new graphics engine that they start playing with being able to hang onto cars, etc. You could imagine driving with some cop hanging off the roof, and doing like you said, bashing in the window or trying to open the door. Being able to do this yourself would be awesome. You could even jump from your car onto the side of a truck or something. I wanted them to add in big truck robberies as well, and big action moves like that would really be great.

gtaman4523: That's a good one. That's exactly the kind of realistic stuff I'd like to see, and if you didn't want to try it, you could always just skip your way to the police station. Having some kind of prison van escape like this would be cool as well. Escapes like that would also be really effective if you added in a wanted level/reputation system that stuck. You'd hear on the news, "Psycho Willy, wanted for killing 50 kittens and an Elvis impersonator, has just escaped custody. Two cops were found dead at the scene with donuts found in their mouths. We have not confirmed whether the donuts were placed there or if the officers were eating them when they were killed." biggrin.gif

D-Ice: Yes, like Tony said, all of those ideas are right there with ours. I think about everything you have there would work really well.

As a kind of general response to people coming after you: when San Andreas came out, and the world was so big and engaging, there were times (especially out in the country) where I would look at something wondering if it was something else, or someone was following me. I am sure part of that stemmed from those 'alien' missions with the hippie dude. I literally would be running around in the country during a storm, see some small tree and think it was someone watching me. I think at one point I actually started pulling people out of black vans just to see if any were FIB. Unfortunately, of course, this wasn't the case. So I'm with you. That sense of the game acting on it's own, plotting your death and hunting you down, would be so awesome. It'd be like the Matrix or something.

Computer: "The player is doing something I don't like. Handle it."
Agents: "Yes, sir. He won't be a problem for much longer."

The just need to fix/add the ability to sneak and hide, etc. I've said it too many times now, but Manhunt + GTA = icon14.gif icon14.gif icon14.gif

It gets really boring to always be the only guy with a brain and never feel threatened. One of the things I always like playing at the end of the game is a serial killer (since I can't be a cop or kill anymore bad guys, R*!!!) Eh hem...anyway...so in 'IV', it actually almost works, but the A.I. is just too weak. Like, all of the atmosphere is there; you wait until it's a dark foggy night, go stalking around one of those parks or back alleys, and it's pretty creepy looking. My thing is to drive one of those supped up Dukes muscle cars, all painted black and creep around the industrial areas and most rural places with the headlights blazing. Sometimes I don't even get out, slamming people over the hood, pretending like the car is evil or something. It's cool though too when you stop your car nearby some poor guy and you can still hear 'Mama' playing on the radio when you get out. It's a nice effect. Of course then you kill the guy, which is kind of sucky (unless you're in the car) cause there are no stealth/violent kills. (it doesn't have to be Manhunt level, but like that) And then anyone that wasn't there to witness the crime will just come stumbling over the body like, "huh, that's interesting." dozingoff.gif Then the whole thing is wrecked. The Euphoria engine, ped reactions and stuff are all good to great, but...

To get back on track: after you commit the crime, and maybe even ditch the cops, you go back to, "oh, well, here I am again." Like Tony has said many times, I want to be looking over my shoulder the next time I try committing some crime like that. If I just slaughtered some dude in an intense back alley brawl, I want to instantly have to start thinking, "oh, sh*t! What do I do now? How do I get out of here? How do I cover my tracks?" Not, walk away whistling and say hi to the group of people walking over the corpse. tounge.gif

So that's when we get into what you're talking about. When you commit a crime, and a witness calls it in, a big star doesn't pop up, and the cops don't come directly after you. Instead, they head toward the crime scene. As long as you are out of sight, you should be able to watch everything happen from behind a dumpster if you wanted. You'd see the cops waving their flashlights around looking for you, dogs barking in the distance, people being told to stop standing around and gawking, and at the same time, guarding the body and protecting the crime scene. The ambulance would come in; forensics would come in; yellow tape would be placed around; etc. You would then be living with a wanted level that sticks, based on the crime you committed and how well witnesses described you. The only time it would go down is if you laid low for a while or used some kind of feature. Although the cops wouldn't know where you are, if you got into their line of sight, inside a hot zone or not, they'd go after you. If it was really intelligent, it would work like "Hitman: Bloody Money" where witnesses to your hits would try and describe you, so later on, and depending on how good the description is, the closer you walk up to someone with or without a disguise, (disguises help) the more likely they are to recognize you from a picture in the paper or on TV. 'Driver' also has a lot of excellent cop features, such as having a separate wanted level for vehicles which we've talked about too. If you're wanted, get in a new car and drive past a cop, as long as you don't get too close, they won't see you.

Anyway, so you could just imagine later on that if someone nearby your safehouse recognized you, or some kind of evidence came to light, cops would be knocking on your door, and might even search your apartment. You could do anything from having to play a small mini-game to convince them you're not the guy (which might lower your wanted level) or maybe you'd have to make sure the murder weapon was hidden well or ditched altogether. Escaping would also be an obvious option. Of course, the simpler way would be to have what you're saying. At first an undercover cop might follow you, where if you started becoming a big time felon, not only would FIB start showing up at your crime scenes, they'd begin tailing you as well. If you killed a gang member or mafia member, skipped out on a bookie, etc., you'd get the 'van thugs' or even have guys pull drive-bys on you.

Other options I'd like to see, that we've also talked about on here, are normal criminals that are wandering around at random. I mean, imagine this: you're playing as the serial killer and you find some guy walking into a dark alley with no one around. As you're tailing him, getting ready to pull of the stealth kill, a nearby door opens and a group of gang members come walking out. They almost run into the guy and start talking sh*t, like, "what the f*ck are you looking at? You're in the wrong neighborhood, b*tch." The guy might try and talk them down or just run, and the next thing you know, the gang is beating the hell out of the guy right in front of you. After the poor dude is lying there bleeding, the gang laughs and heads toward you. When they reach you, they start the same thing, taunting you and pushing you around. (it'd be nice to see a group work together like this instead of only one guy all the time) You could have an option to talk to them, offering them money or talking them down yourself. If you ran, they might just laugh at you, or chase you down, howling at you like they do in 'Manhunt'. You might even threaten them, and if they recognize you, they'd react like, "Holy sh*t! It's that dude who killed all those people!" and a few, or all of them, would take off themselves, or just call you out and a fight would start. If you killed them, or killed a few and a witness survived, you might have the rest of that gang looking for you.

Other criminals that would be lurking around, causing you to look over your shoulder could be serial killers, violent drunks, punks, (they might just say, "look at that sodding jerk!" and hit you with baseball bats, or wreck your car) drunk drivers, crazies and carjackers. You put this with the police hunting for you, and finally, when you think you see some guy standing in the shadows watching you, it will no longer be a figment of your imagination. (ADD: All these kinds of characters would go after any ped, not just you. It'd be just as random if they went after you or someone else.) I also talked about adding undercover stings, like for prostitution and drug dealing. I know it's a game, but give me some fear, man! GTA is in a goofy place now. It's half of GTA1 and half real life. It needs to go one way or the other (I prefer real life) because right now, it never seems to quite live up to one or the other. If you're going to make it real, fix the stupid spawning problems, make the cops work correctly, work on the humor, leave the current character and story atmosphere, and correct other silly issues like cars honking at a dead body, etc. confused.gif If you're going to make it a violent joke, you need to make it bloodier, leave the humor, add in the rampages again, give you points for killing, etc. The middle ground kind of sucks unless you somehow do it all. A perfect example is watching Niko talk dramatically about his dark past to his brother, only to drive up on a billboard where some woman looks like she's taking a leak in a bottle of Piswasser. confused.gif Doesn't work for me.

OK, I better stop as I am on the verge of going on another rant! I could go on and on the amount of horrible humor in 'IV'. It's the only time I felt that way about a GTA. Bleh!!! mad.gif

ADD: I just had a thought, in talking about the realistic GTA and the 'arcade' GTA. What would you guys think if they brought 'State of Emergency' back, but instead of making it a completely different scenario, it would be a GTA spin off? Like, it would focus on one little area of a city, but let you do all of that crazy stuff you could in SoE. Riots, mall shootouts, etc. with different characters. Niko, CJ, Tommy and Claude could all be bonus characters. Might be a fun thing for people waiting for the next GTA to come out, and multiplayer would be available for those who like that. Using the same engine in the spin off would allow them to incorporate anything new and cool into the next GTA game. Just an idea.

D- Ice
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#667

Posted 03 August 2008 - 07:19 PM Edited by D- Ice, 03 August 2008 - 07:23 PM.

@28RedEyedCrows: Thanks man, it's great to see I'm not the only one who wants a larger and more realistic crime system. I really like the idea of cops/detectives/FBI actually coming to the crime scene shortly after. My idea stops short, and only implies those agencies would investigate you, but I couldn't figure a way for the actual FBI to investigate you - and what better way than coming to your crime scene. Also having them tailing other people will just make it all the better for suspense.

I'm sure there are many who'll argue that all those things will take up a lot of disk memory, leaving very little space and programming time for missions, but IMO this can be very easily done still. For the tailers we can just have two type, casual looking undercover agents and Death Squads - the identification of who they are should be left to your initiative. After commiting a murder, they can program it so a cop car, detective/FBI/CIA car and a few ambulances depending on how many you killed. They take a few pictures of the corpses, tell all the crowd "nothing to see here", and the paramedics can load the corpses onto the ambulance and everyone goes. That same animation can be used to pick up injured people onto the ambulance.
The cordon can just be placed on pre-set places, like on your safehouse after a failed cop/SWAT raid, and you no longer can go in and have to find a new safehouse.

I also love the idea of low-life thugs, street gangs and punks on the street - I love that dystopic late 70's to early 80's mean-streets feel they based GTA 2 on. But these people should be designed by the same gang designers as GTA 4. I loved how the gangs for the most part blend in a lot better and don't stick out like a sore thumb, so you can tell a gangter a mile away as soon as you begin the game. That feeling of ambiguity only makes you look harder at them and appreciate the ped design work.

This all will be awsome with the ingenius ultra-open-ended and non-mission-based GTA structure described by you in the beginning. R* have always been at the cutting edge of open-ended freedom in gameplay, and I think it's time for another revolution to leave competition gasping in horror and masturbating at the awsomeness at the same time lol.gif . You could only be shown the ropes at the beginning of the game, then your own your own. You are given very general tasks, like 'find so and whack so and so'. It's up to you to find them via cop computers if the criminals, paying a private eye, or working for organised crime in return for intelligence. How you find him and how you whack him - if you snipe him as he coming out his house, or hire thugs to help you break in and shoot him at night, is up to you. And most importantly, please, please, please no more of them dumb prompts. You have to pay attention at the cutscene!

Sorry another such a long post. tounge.gif

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#668

Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:37 PM

have a cookie.gif for taking the time to write that f*cker of a first post on this topic!

Tony Mozzarelli 80
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#669

Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:42 PM

Haha, long first posts are great, because they tend to filter out all the simpletons. But you should keep reading the OP has been extremely prolific with his walls of text haha

28RedEyedCrows
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#670

Posted 04 August 2008 - 06:06 PM Edited by 28RedEyedCrows, 04 August 2008 - 06:09 PM.

boothy: Thanks! biggrin.gif

Tony: I still can't believe I've gotten as many good responses as I have to my long posts. biggrin.gif I never would have thought.

QUOTE (D- Ice @ Aug 3 2008, 19:19)
R* have always been at the cutting edge of open-ended freedom in gameplay, and I think it's time for another revolution to leave competition gasping in horror and masturbating at the awsomeness at the same time lol.gif .

lol lol.gif You're right though. biggrin.gif

Don't worry about the long post. This is long post central. cool.gif

I'm glad you like so many of the ideas I've put across. Except for what was in the first post, I'm sure a lot of those ideas are a mixture of what others have posted inside of this topic before. At this point, it's a little hard to remember who said what! smile.gif Anyway...

I agree with everything you said. I think the only thing I would disagree with is the gangs, but I could go either way. I always liked those flashy gang members that stood out from the crowd. In fact, I'd actually prefer it if they were done the way they were in 'The Warriors'. It's not very realistic, but whatever! tounge2.gif If you ever had the chance to join one or build one of your own, you could really have fun playing the part. I guess that would only really work in a more stylized GTA though.

If they were done in the more realistic way, I'd just want to make sure they all had one particular trait in common. They do that a little in 'IV' but not for everyone. Even though in a real setting, it's good to not make them so obvious, but for a game, I still don't want to be struggling too much to figure out who's who. You know, if a guy has a tattoo, but it's under his shirt, it's not like you can pull his shirt up and look. lol tounge.gif So, one gang might always have a colored bandanna in their pocket/on their head/etc. Another would have a dragon tattoo on their arm that was always visible, etc. You try picking out Mafia, the Albanians, and the Russians and it will take you a while. I still haven't figured out who all the members of the Albanians and Russians are yet. Gangs don't play a big part in 'IV', but I always enjoyed picking a fight with them, especially at the end of the game. It's a little too difficult to do that currently unless you're going after the Latin guys, Bikers or the Asian gangs.

One thing I really miss is when they used to go after each other. I really wish they would add that back in where you'd see random shootouts between gangs. I used to have fun a long time ago when I'd lure some gang car to a rival's territory and watch the fireworks. biggrin.gif It was also a lot more exciting and suspenseful when you got into those mixed turfs.

As for the hard drive space, I think you worked it out well to use a single animation for multiple things. That's what they should always do when they can, but I still don't think space is as big a problem as some people think. Unless game companies have gotten lazy about it, whenever a new game has come out for a new system, it always ended up being small and funky looking compared to what the last game was on the system, and they fit a much bigger game on the same disc. I think once everyone is used to the new hardware and how to compress things without ruining the graphics, they should be able to put in whatever they want. GTAIII to GTA: SA was a big jump size wise. You also have games like Def Jam: Vendetta turning into Def Jam: FFNY, Shadow of the Colossus, etc. etc. I won't pretend to know the technical ins and outs, but I've never seen disc space be a big problem. If all else does fail, now with the hard drives, they can use 2 if they need. Once you have it loaded, you'd only need one disc in the drive.

When Fallout 3 comes out, I'll be getting it. I think that game will be a big test on how much you can put on a disc, unless it's been altered from it's original open-ended style. I just hope that Rockstar doesn't do like what I mentioned in my OP, where GTA starts losing ground compared to other games, especially graphically. I know GTA is open ended like no other game, but I am sure we are going to see some big time competition come up. If GTA doesn't make any major advances, similar to anything we've been talking about, that's not cool. Even though they bring in tons of money, I don't think they always realize how important their 'little game' is to the industry. That's where a lot of my frustration comes out. I'm looking at in a 'virtual world' standpoint, and they are so close to doing something ridiculously awesome. It'd be a shame if they missed that opportunity, which also means that we may miss that opportunity.

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#671

Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:12 PM Edited by gtaman4523, 04 August 2008 - 08:14 PM.

oh i have another idea : if you have a safe house that has other people in it like an apartment . you have to bribe them so that they don't rat you out or you can have your gang force umm not to tell but they could fight back and maybe kill your guy and you'd get a call saying that there telling and you have to get to them before they tell smile.gif

another another idea : if you join a gang they might think your a rat and stuff like that and if your the boss and you go on a killing spree or something mental they might try to run you out or kill you notify.gif

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#672

Posted 05 August 2008 - 12:46 AM Edited by D- Ice, 05 August 2008 - 12:51 AM.

@28RedEyedCrows: I agree totally with you bro, I also found recognising the gangs very difficult in GTA4 - even the street gangs who are generally very easy to pick out even in real life. However, my GTA idea (it's in a section called GTA 2020 with a head-imploding amount of text no-one bothered to read it seems), it resolves a lot around organised crime and even secret societies, and always not knowing exactly where you stand, thus always being paranoid lol.

However, to get that ultimate R* late 70's-early 80's warrior dystopia inspired theme, I think it is vital to have very stylised gangs like in the movie warriors - with unsavoury and bizarely self-styled characters. That will really give the game that great theme that helped make the great originals such as GTA 2 - with gangs like the loonies for example. However, my point was I think those gangs should not be the top of the foodchain as organised criminals and even secret societies, but rather hoods and thug level criminals - more likely to hit you with a baseball bat or molotov cocktail you. The real powerfull organisations should be very shadowy and much more elusive, but will use those thugs as cheap and easy muscle.
When you start doing a mini-game for a rival organisation where you have to assassinate their members, then will you get the shady spooks following you.

But I still think it's vital for my ideal next GTA to have gangs like the ones in the movie Warriors, each with a bizarre style, like the ones who dress like baseball players, and the Pimps. tounge.gif

@gtaman4523: Thats a very cool idea man, and I think it can quite easily be implimented in the game, with the idea of police/gang raids on your safehouse. All those will give your safehouse a lot more of a focal role in gameplay, which I think is vital in any crime simulator or crime-based game. You now have to consider and care about your safehouse and what type it is. This will really increase the game's feeling of fear and instability, just like a real life of crime, as not even your safehouse is totally worry free from your actions' consiquences. ph34r.gif

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#673

Posted 05 August 2008 - 05:45 PM

D- Ice: Yeah, as far as the real life look, that's what I missed, the gangs that looked like real gangs. Dwayne's guys stood out pretty good, but they wore red AND blue, and don't take advantage of the bandannas, etc. like they did in SA. They always have those big multicolored clothes on. The Latin gangs had those big flag shirts, etc. Only a few cruised around in a tank-top in jeans and had tattoos, which is the cool look I imagine. In other words, a lot of them didn't look very badda$$ to me. If you see a group of guys walking toward you with open plaid shirts, tank-tops and baggy jeans while covered in prison tats, you want to go the other way. Seeing a bunch of guys in bright fluffy clothes doesn't really have that same effect. lol.gif Especially those guys that look like Manny. The only guys I thought looked cool like that were the big guys in one of the African-American gangs. "Who's this white boy?" biggrin.gif (runs)

The Mafia, Russians, etc. looked cool, but it was too hard to pick them out. I thought the Asian gangs were cool, but again, too hard to pick them all out. There are the Koreans, but they stand out cause they all look exactly the same. tounge2.gif But, they did have those cool tuned Sultan cars (if one decided to spawn!) so I liked those guys.

Anyway, this might all change again once Rockstar gets back to the West Coast, or even heads off to Tokyo or something. At least I hope. New Yo-eh hem, Liberty City has always been a funny place for gangs, IMHO.

I'm glad you're into that really stylized look as well. Rockstar should really think about doing a Carcer, Warriors or similar thing for real in GTA. They have the rights, and that'd be a lot of fun to bring back and create more of those cool gangs, and the cool atmospheres. They both had scarier themes as well, (Manhunt obviously, duh) which I really wish was in GTA. I know GTA is supposed to be all bright and a happy go lucky, (for the most part) but I don't think experimenting with different styles at this point would be so bad. I think it's what people want, especially considering the amount of threads talking about a Tokyo, Future and Carcer. I think the only normal one people want back right away is San Andreas since it had everything from the country, to Las Venturas, to Los Santos, the little towns, customization, etc. etc.

Oh, and I agree about the lower gangs having the more wild looks. I even see that kind of thing in real society, though rare. I remember seeing this thing a while back about a Hispanic gang in LA that dressed up like greasers and the girls had those 50's dresses and hair. They had this whole code where they'd never settle anything with a weapon, always using fists, etc. Don't know if those dudes are still active, but I thought that was so cool. Couldn't believe it was real. colgate.gif

Anyway, the last thing I'll say is that I think that's a good idea about the secret societies. If you had a gang similar to the Krishna's for example, it might be like Scientology, where just looking at a guy won't tell you a lot, but if you talk to him, he might start talking about new age stuff or even try and recruit you. Of course Yakuza and Mafia would just be dude's in suits. Dark secret society characters could be part of an underground sacrificial cult you could find evidence of by stumbling into the right places. These guys might have a little tattoo on their hand or something, but no other signs.

Yeah, they need to get more creative. Same as I've griped that there really isn't a Big Foot character or Rat Man, like why not? Enough with the hidden stuff you can't do anything with or can't interact with. Just like in 'Bully', I wanted to unlock an open leather jacket just like the Greaser's wore (how about that, more Greasers!) but you could only buy one, and it was all buttoned up!!! mad.gif Like, WHY?! tounge.gif (I'll never get over that! lol.gif )

gtaman4523: "Another another idea." lol lol.gif I like those too, especially the last one. I had brought it up before (I should find it) about building your own gang, but I'd really like them to have a really detailed gang system that included what you're saying. There are so many things in GTA that could keep you occupied on their own for hours, but they never quite go far enough.

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#674

Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:51 AM

Dude i love the idea, and you sound like one of the seemingly very few intelligent people of this forum "btw"

But unless the 360 is getting Blu Ray sometime in the next 2 years, then it wont be available to 360 owners.

Who would've thought Sony could do something right?

28RedEyedCrows
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#675

Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:11 AM

WillE: Thanks a lot. smile.gif I'm a Sony guy, so I don't know a lot about the Xbox. I would think that by even using 2 discs and using the hard drive correctly you could pull it off, but I'm not very technical. With a game as big as I was originally thinking, you'd probably have to have 2 discs anyway.

As a side note, I think Microsoft is going to have to covert to Blu-Ray or come up with an alternative anyway since HD-DVD is already dead I believe. (unless they just keep using it for games) Making a change might give them a chance to add some extra features or something.

clarke_19_rangers
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#676

Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:35 PM

how big would this game be btw??? 3 times the size of SA??

Bates_GTA
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#677

Posted 06 August 2008 - 03:49 PM

The one thing that would make the online mode the best, is complete freedom online, an online arena that can fit millions into the city, like WoW and other games like this. If they can do it on the Computeri believe with the technology these day's it wont be long until they can on the PS3 & Xbox. The new PS3 Exclusive 'Mag' is a hint at thing's to come in my opinion, it can hold up to 250+.
Please Please Please. colgate.gif

Tony Mozzarelli 80
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#678

Posted 06 August 2008 - 09:15 PM

QUOTE (Bates_GTA @ Aug 6 2008, 15:49)
The one thing that would make the online mode the best, is complete freedom online, an online arena that can fit millions into the city, like WoW and other games like this. If they can do it on the Computeri believe with the technology these day's it wont be long until they can on the PS3 & Xbox. The new PS3 Exclusive 'Mag' is a hint at thing's to come in my opinion, it can hold up to 250+.
Please Please Please. colgate.gif

That would be f*cking awesome, but you wouldn't be able to have any kind of story. It would just turn into a f*cking huge deathmatch. Which would be cool in it's own right.

Does anyone else think it would be cool if they had large freight and cargo ships out at sea. Maybe you could unlock a special boat which is designed for assaulting them. You could get your gang and board the ship like a f*cking pirate. Then you would have to search the ship for the 'special cargo' maybe they would have smuggling compartments. Obviously they would be heavily guarded. by whatever gang members. and maybe you would have to unload the cargo with a crane, or perhaps jack the boat itself, but smaller boats with reinforcements would turn up making it difficult for you to get away in the big ship

Kevin143
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#679

Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:17 PM Edited by Kevin143, 06 August 2008 - 10:23 PM.

Very true.

We should send these ideas to R* or something biggrin.gif

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#680

Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:32 PM

that post was so long that i dont even want to read anymore. i only read one comment which was "woah"

28RedEyedCrows
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#681

Posted 07 August 2008 - 12:07 AM

clarke_19_rangers: I was actually thinking that the map size would be close to the size of SA, just a little bigger, and not full of city like 'IV' is. I would want a little bit of everything to make everyone (including myself) happy. That means one, or two, good sized, neon cities, a slum city, (or forgotten city) a series of small towns and rest stops, a widespread desert, (that takes a while to drive over) a forest/jungle, mountains, oceans and rivers. So, the size of the game would come more from having a LOT of functional interiors finally, (shops, malls, homes, apartments, etc.) and a much more interactive environment, including destructible buildings and objects you can do just about anything with. The country for the most part won't have a bunch of buildings in it, so that's just for atmosphere, and shouldn't clog up the hard drive. In other words, I don't want the map to get much bigger, I want to be able to do more within the sizes we have now. Constantly increasing the size of the map (at least the cities) and minute details is what is taking all of the time, and not giving the gamer anything to do but look at it. Just shrink the city size down, keep your details and make it more interactive.

I think from now on, every GTA should include similar geology/ecology to San Andreas, especially with the inclusion of the taxi system. (which can be transferred to buses or trains) Guys like me who love the countryside can drive through it, while others who hate it can just skip through most of the time. The thing they need to do with the country though is make it more actively interesting, cause I am sure it will already LOOK fantastic with the new graphics engine. Put in some wild animals, some strange wackos hiding in the woods, desert nomads, dudes from the Hills Have Eyes, something! Rockstar always leaves so much untapped potential, and they've shown how good they can do horror and creative elements with games like 'Manhunt' and 'The Warriors'. Area 69 didn't suck, but it should have been a lot cooler, and things like Big Foot and Mr. Chainsaw Massacre should REALLY exist. Have a little fun Rockstar! C'mon!!! tounge.gif

Bates_GTA: IMO, everyone might not be a fan of the movies, but I think we all want some form of The Matrix that we can play in; a place where you can build whatever character you want and do whatever you want in a virtual world, whether it's online or not and whether it's story driven or not. That's one reason I am so hard on Rockstar sometimes, because GTA has so much potential to take us there, and I don't want to see them go off in some weird direction or sell out their ideas. Just like what you're talking about with WoW; isn't that the appeal? You can be anything you want and just run around in this simulated universe with all of those other people? I'm giving you a big answer to your idea, but it goes with what I am saying. You can just imagine taking the graphics engine and themes of GTA and letting people all over the world jump right into the universe. There'd be so many players, you'd be walking through a hundred people and not even realize that 50 of them are real. When you said 'arena' it gave me this vision of two players fighting it out in this pit, surrounded by spectators who were all other players. That would be so awesome, and for anyone who says "they already have the Sims online", who said it had to be a NICE universe? Even the Matrix isn't friendly town. Just make a huge and violent GTA world and let people run wild. Hell, they could form a gang, get drunk together and while they were stumbling to their car, another gang pulls a drive-by on them. Yeehaw! biggrin.gif Of course, keep the single player option since I don't play multiplayer. Ha! lol.gif

The bad thing is I am not sure if Rockstar ever intended for GTA to be as big as it's become. Years ago I remember reading something when the very first GTA came out for PC, that it was a game that the developers made to entertain themselves and ended up releasing it to the public. I'm not sure if that's true, but that would be funny to go from that to what we have now. Someone on here said, in so many words, "they really opened Pandora's box with this free roaming world". That's SO true. Rockstar is probably like, "we just wanted to make a cool action game!!!" cry.gif cryani.gif

Tony: As long as Jack Sparrow doesn't show up, I think we're good. lol.gif I'd see no problem with them implementing something like that. The boats need a good updating (it still is a mess to jack one, etc.) so that could be part of drug smuggling, etc. It'd be really cool to be able to run up beside a big tanker and climb up into it in an attempt to take it over, or even kill/subdue the crew and steal a bunch of goods/weapons/drugs from them, throwing the boxes into your smaller boat.

Kevin143: So many people have had so many great ideas on here, I really wish I could just roll this whole thing up and just hand it to them. I'd simply say, "OK, Do THIS!" colgate.gif

speeddemonXXX: I think if you kept going until the end, your eyes would probably fall out. lol.gif

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#682

Posted 07 August 2008 - 12:37 AM

Adding to what 28Redeyedcrows said replying to Bates, What about a GTA MMORPG? Where you could go into a room, maybe with a party, possibly start a gang, and start building up stats, money, and skill by killing real people online. The player would be completely customizable, like the sims. And you could create gang ensignia, and maybe even edit a bio for your gang with other people. You could easily join another gang. Or, join a random gang, but for the people who start GTA gangs, there would be an option to disallow your gang to be picked at random for a person to join. You could also do it alone (With CPUs), or with 4 other players split-screen, or maybe even System Link to have 16 players. Anyways, you would be able to do anything, no cops or anything to stop you. (Although, with gangs, there could also be law enforcement groups you could join, who level up by destroying gangs.) And if you are away from the game for long periods of time, your skills and stats will be affected. Just think about it.

Bates_GTA
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#683

Posted 07 August 2008 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE
Bates_GTA: IMO, everyone might not be a fan of the movies, but I think we all want some form of The Matrix that we can play in; a place where you can build whatever character you want and do whatever you want in a virtual world, whether it's online or not and whether it's story driven or not. That's one reason I am so hard on Rockstar sometimes, because GTA has so much potential to take us there, and I don't want to see them go off in some weird direction or sell out their ideas. Just like what you're talking about with WoW; isn't that the appeal? You can be anything you want and just run around in this simulated universe with all of those other people? I'm giving you a big answer to your idea, but it goes with what I am saying. You can just imagine taking the graphics engine and themes of GTA and letting people all over the world jump right into the universe. There'd be so many players, you'd be walking through a hundred people and not even realize that 50 of them are real. When you said 'arena' it gave me this vision of two players fighting it out in this pit, surrounded by spectators who were all other players. That would be so awesome, and for anyone who says "they already have the Sims online", who said it had to be a NICE universe? Even the Matrix isn't friendly town. Just make a huge and violent GTA world and let people run wild. Hell, they could form a gang, get drunk together and while they were stumbling to their car, another gang pulls a drive-by on them. Yeehaw! biggrin.gif Of course, keep the single player option since I don't play multiplayer. Ha!  lol.gif

Exactly what i'm getting. A community, I was thinking this is what IV online would be like, then i get pissed off remembering there can only be 16 of you in the same server. They are doing it with the 'Mag' game and fitting stupid amounts of online player's into one server, i recon this game is a trial to see how there server's handle it then if i copes they will expand to other games and make server's bigger. All i would really love is for people to be able to go into a game and see hundreds of other's and build the server into a community not just a server. and then you and your gang member's could actually have a hangout waiting for other gang's from god know's where to try your gang, the posibilities would be endless. Now this is a question, If they can do it with WoW on the PC, surely one day they will be able to do it on the PS3 & Xbox with GTA?

QUOTE
Adding to what 28Redeyedcrows said replying to Bates, What about a GTA MMORPG? Where you could go into a room, maybe with a party, possibly start a gang, and start building up stats, money, and skill by killing real people online. The player would be completely customizable, like the sims. And you could create gang ensignia, and maybe even edit a bio for your gang with other people. You could easily join another gang. Or, join a random gang, but for the people who start GTA gangs, there would be an option to disallow your gang to be picked at random for a person to join. You could also do it alone (With CPUs), or with 4 other players split-screen, or maybe even System Link to have 16 players. Anyways, you would be able to do anything, no cops or anything to stop you. (Although, with gangs, there could also be law enforcement groups you could join, who level up by destroying gangs.) And if you are away from the game for long periods of time, your skills and stats will be affected. Just think about it.

Yeah another thing like a Community, fighting other gang's, stacking up your gang money and taking it back to your hangout before other gang's try it with your boy's. the WoW maps are absolutely Gigantic, it would take atleast 10 hours to get to the other side, imagine travelling all that way (car, boat, plane, helicopter) to a meet with other gang member's, kill them, steal there money, Rank up. Wallar! onw the territory is yours. Then you could have online user's havng the choice of taking the role of cop's on the game to 'Try' to stop the crime around the city. Basically a normal mode GTA but no Ped's, just full of online user's causing havoc or being realistic. I would also like a higher penalty of getting killed, instead of respawning you have to forfeit money or something, like you drop ALOT of cash, so instead of IV where you respawn with no real cost of being killed, people would actually be frigtened of being killed and then it would add the realism.
The idea's stream into my head, I could go on forever.

Tony Mozzarelli 80
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#684

Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:04 AM

I'm totally with you on this one Bates. And you'rre right, there would need to be a real penalty for dying, or else you just get a large deathmatch without the community.

28RedEyedCrows
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#685

Posted 07 August 2008 - 06:55 PM

Bates_GTA, Tony & Epicohnoes!: I'll have to stay out of this discussion a bit since, like I said, I'm not a multiplayer...uh...player, but anyway... I see no reason why Rockstar wouldn't be able to have that many people, especially if other games are already, or going to do it. I don't think there are any real limits to technology. For the most part, on the hardware side, it just comes down to size and know-how. Sometimes the size of the hardware is a bit ridiculous if the technology isn't there to shrink it down. Just like they have those 'Server Farms' to create a lot of the high-end CGI stuff. But, apparently, these companies are often creative enough to find ways around these issues by means I could never understand. Just like you go from 'Super Mario World' to 'Chrono Trigger', or from 'GTA III' to 'GTA: SA'.

As a whole, I like the gang ideas, and that's one of the things I had in mind. It'd really be something, once the product was settled, to actually be a new guy walking down the street, and seeing groups of guys all dressed similar, hanging off cars and checking their weapons, only to figure out it's an entire gang made up of players.

A big thing of mine is, I would avoid TOO many RPG elements, unless they were real world based. One thing I've seen, and really don't like in these MMORPGs is when you've got those damn guys (or group of guys) that walk around and can't be touched by anyone, and that's because of the horrible lack of limits. You get those issues where one guy who has no life at all has become this super mega warlock or whatever, and starts killing other players just for a laugh, even guys who don't even know what they are doing. That only sets the game up for abuse, and you get the kind of juvenile sh*t I've read about, such as in WoW. Like those bully gangs that kill newbie's that happen to have a weapon they want, and then sell the DIGITAL weapon on eBay for real money... confused.gif Yeah, so none of that crap.

I would make it like real life. If you want to control an area, you NEED to have a gang. You don't just have one god like character that can kill 30 guys. (if he can, it's because he's a good player, not because he's invincible) If you gain in stats, it would be things like the ability to aim better, (only maxing out the weapon's limitations) or take a little more damage, maybe up to 50% more. So, let's say you've got a group of 5 guys all maxed out in stats that have been abusing a bunch of new players. Well, another guy that hasn't been playing for long happens to be an expert sniper, pissed off about this, so that sucker sneaks up on them on a rooftop and picks off the leader right there with a shot to the head. MAYBE two if he's really big time. So that's that. The dude loses some stats, or all of his gear, or SOMETHING actually damaging, and the a**hole isn't just standing there taking 50 sniper shots to the face and laughing.

I think it should also be a little harder to get big weapons. If you're playing a deathmatch or whatever, that's fine, but in an actual MMORPG, I think it would be pretty stupid over time to have every shot fired be from an RPG. I know some guys love that, but I think it just turns a realistic and frightening real world scenario into a chaotic mess. A good way to do this might to have the amount of weapons you can carry limited, which we have talked about before on here. So if you really wanted/needed an RPG, you could carry it on your back, but be limited to one rocket, adding about 3 more if you had some in a bag you were carrying. (but you couldn't carry other weapons if you filled your bag with rockets) That way at least it doesn't look like everyone has a rocket machinegun, and it'd also be more fun to work as a team. There's a lot of stuff like this the developer should think about, otherwise it's going to end up being the same old crap we've always had.

As for cops and stuff, I think the world should be real and function normally without a player's involvement, so cops and emergency would all be functional. They just need to quit it with the ridiculous amount of cops they have, the spawning and the wanted level system they have now. Otherwise it'd be no fun at all. I mean, if they had a real life styled wanted system, imagine if you lost one of your best gang members for a while because he needed to lay low! colgate.gif If you really needed him, you'd just have to risk it. That's the kind of stuff I like.

Oh yeah, and please, no magical pimp hats that grant you +5 sexiness, and no Frodo ski-masks that make you invisible. lol.gif Not only is that just silly in a GTA environment, it also prevents items from having real worth, and bringing out the kinds of nasty guys I mentioned.

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#686

Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE (28RedEyedCrows)
. . . and it'd also be more fun to work as a team.

Holy sh*t . . . [imagines the possibilities]

I like everything you've mentioned besides the MMORPG part. That's APB's job, not GTA's.

Offtopic: Oh yea, and if you guys are gonna get that game, pm me so we could play and try out all the things we mention in this thread.

28RedEyedCrows
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#687

Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:56 PM Edited by 28RedEyedCrows, 07 August 2008 - 11:58 PM.

Drunk Russian 9: It's not really my thing either since I don't play them, (at this stage) but for those who do, I like thinking of the possibilities, and especially rules against abuse. Things like that make me mad, and I'm not even involved in it! tounge.gif There are a lot of things, like the teams, that can be brought into normal multiplayer and single player anyway. One of these guys had mentioned something about squad tactics, and I'd like to see something like out of some single player team based games like 'Brothers in Arms' or 'Freedom Fighters'. It'd be really cool for a gang or even a police, NOOSE or FBI team.

BTW, what is APB? dontgetit.gif

Bates_GTA
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#688

Posted 08 August 2008 - 12:29 AM Edited by Bates_GTA, 08 August 2008 - 12:33 AM.

28RedEyedCrows:
QUOTE
I would make it like real life. If you want to control an area, you NEED to have a gang. You don't just have one god like character that can kill 30 guys. (if he can, it's because he's a good player, not because he's invincible) If you gain in stats, it would be things like the ability to aim better, (only maxing out the weapon's limitations) or take a little more damage, maybe up to 50% more. So, let's say you've got a group of 5 guys all maxed out in stats that have been abusing a bunch of new players. Well, another guy that hasn't been playing for long happens to be an expert sniper, pissed off about this, so that sucker sneaks up on them on a rooftop and picks off the leader right there with a shot to the head. MAYBE two if he's really big time. So that's that. The dude loses some stats, or all of his gear, or SOMETHING actually damaging, and the a**hole isn't just standing there taking 50 sniper shots to the face and laughing.

I agree with all that you said here. Getting killed on GTA IV needs to have a penalty, so you don't get idiot's constantly pestering you, Gang turf war's with other clans around the huge map appeals to me so much. Stat's could be based around the player's K/D(kill/death) ratio, so you don't get load of people at rank 10 just because they play alot.

QUOTE
I think it should also be a little harder to get big weapons. If you're playing a deathmatch or whatever, that's fine, but in an actual MMORPG, I think it would be pretty stupid over time to have every shot fired be from an RPG. I know some guys love that, but I think it just turns a realistic and frightening real world scenario into a chaotic mess. A good way to do this might to have the amount of weapons you can carry limited, which we have talked about before on here. So if you really wanted/needed an RPG, you could carry it on your back, but be limited to one rocket, adding about 3 more if you had some in a bag you were carrying. (but you couldn't carry other weapons if you filled your bag with rockets) That way at least it doesn't look like everyone has a rocket machinegun, and it'd also be more fun to work as a team. There's a lot of stuff like this the developer should think about, otherwise it's going to end up being the same old crap we've always had.

Another thing that would need improving, Weapons; Instead of IV where you spawn and you travel to a RPG and automatically you have the upper hand, maybe buying gun's at shop's, So again having the upper hand has it's cost. Like you say, Carrying an RPG limit's the space for any more guns, again having the upper gun's with heavy amory has it's cost.


I hope one day they do realise what we actually want, surely they know this is the ultimate goal, to be able to do what you would do in IV story mode but instead create a community and find allies, get other gang's to back you up, pay them for the help etc, It would just take gaming to the ultimate level, GTA in my opinion would be the most succesful game ever made if they managed this. Becoming known in the GTA enviroment takes skill, not just guys with a hole lot of time on their hands.

I just get flippin' excited at the fact of a MASSIVE map like WoW and it could take hours if not day's to run there.

OR

The War system in WoW, where there's two map's to each world, both with a huge rivalry on each other, this is not to say there's obviously going to be the odd rivalry in each city with loads of other gang's populating it, but the ultimate is when these two cities try to gain control of each other, maybe i'm going to far on all this, but this really would be the ultimate. here's is what i'm talking about:
(skip to 2:00 to skip the bullsh*t)


Now imagine that a HHUUGGEE annual organised meet, without all the fantasy sh*t, but an all out Riot fist fight's baseball bat's, No RPG's, it would be f*cking Epic.

God you've got me started now tounge2.gif icon13.gif

Tony Mozzarelli 80
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#689

Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:14 AM

I agree totally. Imagine all the player made gangs populating the city al vying for power and control within their territories.
especially if there was a sufficient penalty for dying, then people would have to use underworld politics to stay afloat. War with rival gangs, assuming their power rivals yours, would be costly, and leave your position weakened. So you would not do so lightly, lest you be ousted by some other gang looking to capitalize. you would have to allign your gang with other gangs in order to compete, but you would constantly have to display your force so as not to appear weak. There would be small bands of mercenaries and guns for hire, who would do high risk jobs for good money. Your reputation in the online community would actually count for something. And when the gang wars did erupt, well i think we can al appreciate how awesome that would be. and the police should all be player controlled too, that would add an interesting dynamic. Properties should be exchangeable between players too, as well as weapons, vehicles and any other goods which come to mind, notably black market goods, such as drugs.

By the way APB is a game in production which is similar to what we're talking about, but it looks as though it's gonna be more like a giant deathmatch

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#690

Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:57 AM

QUOTE (28RedEyedCrows @ Jun 29 2008, 11:35)
I actually was writing this as a response to PATT3N's "Am I The Only One Who Still Loves GTA?" topic and some of the other posters, but because I couldn't shut up, I decided to make this a topic. Sorry it's so long, and you can take it or leave it, but I wanted to get this off my chest. I would like to think/hope that people from Rockstar pay attention to your feedback out there, so this is just an addition.

I love GTA IV, and I loved all of them at one point or the other. (I've been with them since GTA One for the PC) Nearly every time; what kills a GTA for me is the graphics, not the gameplay. I normally only stop playing them when other games surpass them in the graphics department (sometimes even Rockstar's own games such as 'The Warriors') cause going back to them, they look funky and become hard to play for those that aren't hardcore.

As much as I played the hell out of them - especially San Andreas or even GTA2 - I always used to make fun of the way people died/fell down, how things blew up, the cartoony visuals, etc. ever since Vice City. Regarding the 3D versions, it has almost always been behind the times graphically (except III), and for some reason, (possibly because of the size) has never been up to par visually with any of Rockstar's other big time games, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I got 'Bully' and 'The Warriors' and went back later to play 'San Andreas' and was frustrated that it couldn't even compete graphically with those two games, so I forgot about it and kept playing 'Bully'. The fighting systems and animations alone in those two games were so superior. Wasn't the first 'Manhunt' out before SA? I only stopped playing that game just before 'Manhunt 2' came out. I still love the way that game is, though it's finally pretty dated now.

Despite me bashing GTA graphically, I still played them for months and months for one reason: "The freedom to do anything in a large, virtual world." Of course, this concept has not come true just yet, but the groundwork has been a lot of fun so far. They've tried hard to give us a lot of stuff to do, and make it bigger and more interactive every time.

But now, suddenly, GTA IV comes out with great graphics and THE best reaction system (Euphoria is it?) I've personally ever seen. The way people react and fall... I can't get enough of the shoot outs, and the world, lighting, etc. are beautiful. I also know that they put a LOT of effort into the story and acting and commend them for it. I don't fault them for anything that is there.

Of course, I know why people are frustrated; Now the graphics are great, the animations are great, the story is great and what happened? There's less free stuff to do, and even though the graphics alone make the game as replayable to many (myself included) as SA, the end-of-game replayability suffers once again and it's getting old. (I'm talking about Single Player)

There's nothing wrong with they DID add. The relationships, the mini-games, all of those are brilliant; but Rockstar has a bad habit of creating these awesome worlds, only to forget to add in missions/events that can be randomly generated and infinitely played once the story is done. The groundwork is always there, and it nearly always falls short. Many times it wouldn't even be difficult to do. With 'The Warriors' there were no more gangs to fight, and you end up being civilian beating thugs. With 'Bully' there were no more cliques or jerks to fight, and you end up being a bully yourself. The same ideas are what hurt GTA. The assassination missions could have been infinite, gangs could be more prominent and go to war with each other (or you), no taxi missions (except in the beginning), no more riots, rampages, ambulance missions....(sigh). The only thing that is action oriented I CAN do in 'GTA IV', now that I've completed it, is shoot civilians and cops at random (seeing a trend here?), except for the vigilante missions which had SO much potential. Have you ever gone after a gang and called the police? They get in awesome shootouts and is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in a game. You can even hide behind one of the cops' cars with them while they are shooting at each other, but guess what? You try and help the police by shooting your own gun and you've got a 2-3 star wanted level. Let us JOIN the police for crying out loud. Some of us want to be good guys. 555-RECRUIT should have worked, seriously... I love the freedom, but Rockstar tends to limit gamers to being a$$holes once the stories are done (action wise), unless you like walking. You can't even be smart a$$holes.

Part of that 100 million went to recreating a city that works, for the most part, as an interactive postcard (not counting the people/vehicles). It's gorgeous and fun as hell to drive/run through it, but once you've seen it, you've seen it. You can't even sit down on benches or smash windows, and you can't be awed forever. I would have been happy in an area just the size of ONE of the islands if I could actually enter the buildings and shops were functional, and I've been hoping for that ever since III came out. I'm still waiting. I was so disappointed when I got to Las Venturas in SA, saw all of those beautiful Casinos only to discover that only TWO were enterable.

I, and others, can get a bad rap from other fans for being hard on Rockstar. But you know why we are? We love this game/series and we want to see it reach it's full potential. We know Rockstar "rocks". GTA IV made 500 million! It's not like people are sending flaming bags of poo to Rockstar. (Bully Reference)

With that said: This, finally, needs to become a true crime simulator, even if it takes longer to release the next game. That 'freedom' tag needs to reign true. The graphics engine is finally awesome, so let's go for it! We need to be able to break into buildings, put graffiti on walls, blow up more than just cars, deal drugs, rob stores, take hostages, start gangs, start gang wars, prison breaks, have stand offs with negotions, etc. etc. And for the good guys, we should have a complete area for wannabe cops, adding in apprehension, transporting, detective work, intimidating interrogations, and generally working WITH the police for once which I always wanted to do. Hell, Niko is basically a good guy. I doubt he really gets a kick out of mowing down cops and civilians. He apologizes every time! Once people have TRUE freedom to interact with a COMPLETE world, complaints will fall to the floor.

I would honestly suggest that in the next GTA, there's no story. I LOVED the story in IV, and Niko is now one of my favorite characters ever, but seriously, going back to GTA's roots might not be a bad idea in order to get the replayability right once and for all, and Rockstar could save face by allowing players to play as cops or criminals. On the criminal end, let's just have a game like the first one, where you create a criminal and just toss that dude (or gal) into a fully functioning city where all of those things I mentioned above are available. Want to jack a car? Do it. Want to drive that car into the front window of a shop in order to steal some goods? Do it. Want to sell those goods to a pawn shop to get money for selling drugs? Do it. Oh, and why not take your jacked up car to the chop shop on the way and have a shootout with the guys when they try and screw you over. Make sure you spray paint your own custom logo on their walls once your rampage has ended, though that might piss off the local gang who will come after you. Doesn't that sound fun, AND replayable? In the eyes of the original creators, to me, that's exactly what GTA should be. Setting up a reactionary system where one thing effects another on it's own, you could make one hell of a game that would NEVER be exactly the same.

So there is my rant. GTA is like my kid (if I had one) I love it, I pay for it, but it can also disappoint me and piss me off. If anyone is reading this... bored.gif ...I'd like any thoughts you have. Trust me, if I could say all this to the Rockstar developers, I would. I wish/hope they'd listen to all of you.

Thank the lord!!!! i totaly agree with you 5 billion %.
I realy do hope R* have read all this and took it into account. This GTA game would rock and is certainly what all us GTA fans want! icon14.gif icon14.gif icon14.gif




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