Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Connection problems in MP? Pissed off?

61 replies to this topic
thebritishbulldog
  • thebritishbulldog

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Apr 2008

#1

Posted 30 May 2008 - 12:08 PM Edited by thebritishbulldog, 30 May 2008 - 01:01 PM.

Okay,

Like many of you I have struggled for weeks with consistently getting dropped from MP. 95% of the time I can not join a quick match or one I have been invited to. I have always been able to host my own games but would get the "your connection to one of more players has been lost, returning to single player game" message when I tried to join any other game.

Sound Familiar?


I have phoned Rockstar and Sony many times and done everything they suggested to get it working:

* I have opened the ports required to access PSN and GTA4
* I have given my PS3 a static IP
* I have put my PS3 in a DMZ.
* I have setup rules in my Firewall to allow unrestricted access to the PS3
* I have enabled UPnP
* I have made sure my PS3 has "Nat 2" status.

I have done everything I can think of to get this to work....but until yesterday I would get kicked from nearly all games I tried to join.

----

Now my networking knowledge is okay, I've had to do a bit as part of my job, but this issue has been a pain in the backside for me. Until yesterday I was sure it was NOT a router/networking issue my end.... But then I started thinking objectively: Now its obvious that there are people who can play this game on MP without too many issues. So I thought it MUST be partially related to routing or the network connection... and that got me thinking about NAT (network address translation)...

NAT is not something I know a great deal about, I know its used to allow many computers on the same network to use 1 IP address to access the internet. I know what to do to get it working but I was unaware of all the different types of NAT there are. So how intrigued was I when I read this:

http://en.wikipedia....ess_translation

Now this Wiki article and particularly the nice simple diagrams of how the different types of NAT work got me thinking - What type of NAT is my router using? Now you can see from the diagrams that the best NAT type for gaming is Full-Cone-NAT (otherwise known as one-to-one NAT) as it allows many different servers access to the ports on the router which are then forwarded to the designated internal IP address (in this case the PS3) using the same port numbers. Its like a direct line into the PS3, no mucking about... "bish bash bosh". Now obviously for a normal computer that is a big security hole... you don't really want any old server access to your networked machine without your routers firewall checking it but for a console it doesn't matter so much (?).

A REVELATION!

When I checked what NAT my router was using it was not using this simplified version of NAT. It was using the more complicated PAT (Port address translation) alongside it which seemed to be confusing the issue and making the link to the Rockstar servers more unstable. I don;t pretend to understand it fully but reading the wiki article made me think about trying to change my NAT type.

* So I logged into my router.
* I changed my NAT type to one-to-one (also called full-cone-nat) and entered the IP address of the PS3....
* I booted up GTA4 and tried to enter MP.
* I tried to join a quick DM.....

....ET VOILA! I could Play! My connection issues had improved immediately!

* I was able to join several quick matches (one a 10 player DM!).
* I was able to join invited games.
* I could still host!

I did get dropped a couple of times from games, but out of about 10 attempts to play I was able to connect 8 times without problems

So. If you are suffering the dreaded connection problems more than sporadically look into what NAT type you router is using and do everything you can to change it to full cone nat/one-to-one nat.

thebritishbulldog
  • thebritishbulldog

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Apr 2008

#2

Posted 30 May 2008 - 01:05 PM

More evidence that this works:

http://www.dslreport...-...disabling 

http://www.gtagaming...d.php?p=1799249

UNDERDAWG13
  • UNDERDAWG13

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 28 May 2008

#3

Posted 30 May 2008 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (thebritishbulldog @ May 30 2008, 12:08)
Okay,

Like many of you I have struggled for weeks with consistently getting dropped from MP. 95% of the time I can not join a quick match or one I have been invited to. I have always been able to host my own games but would get the "your connection to one of more players has been lost, returning to single player game" message when I tried to join any other game.

Sound Familiar?


I have phoned Rockstar and Sony many times and done everything they suggested to get it working:

* I have opened the ports required to access PSN and GTA4
* I have given my PS3 a static IP
* I have put my PS3 in a DMZ.
* I have setup rules in my Firewall to allow unrestricted access to the PS3
* I have enabled UPnP
* I have made sure my PS3 has "Nat 2" status.

I have done everything I can think of to get this to work....but until yesterday I would get kicked from nearly all games I tried to join.

----

Now my networking knowledge is okay, I've had to do a bit as part of my job, but this issue has been a pain in the backside for me. Until yesterday I was sure it was NOT a router/networking issue my end.... But then I started thinking objectively: Now its obvious that there are people who can play this game on MP without too many issues. So I thought it MUST be partially related to routing or the network connection... and that got me thinking about NAT (network address translation)...

NAT is not something I know a great deal about, I know its used to allow many computers on the same network to use 1 IP address to access the internet. I know what to do to get it working but I was unaware of all the different types of NAT there are. So how intrigued was I when I read this:

http://en.wikipedia....ess_translation

Now this Wiki article and particularly the nice simple diagrams of how the different types of NAT work got me thinking - What type of NAT is my router using? Now you can see from the diagrams that the best NAT type for gaming is Full-Cone-NAT (otherwise known as one-to-one NAT) as it allows many different servers access to the ports on the router which are then forwarded to the designated internal IP address (in this case the PS3) using the same port numbers. Its like a direct line into the PS3, no mucking about... "bish bash bosh". Now obviously for a normal computer that is a big security hole... you don't really want any old server access to your networked machine without your routers firewall checking it but for a console it doesn't matter so much (?).

A REVELATION!

When I checked what NAT my router was using it was not using this simplified version of NAT. It was using the more complicated PAT (Port address translation) alongside it which seemed to be confusing the issue and making the link to the Rockstar servers more unstable. I don;t pretend to understand it fully but reading the wiki article made me think about trying to change my NAT type.

* So I logged into my router.
* I changed my NAT type to one-to-one (also called full-cone-nat) and entered the IP address of the PS3....
* I booted up GTA4 and tried to enter MP.
* I tried to join a quick DM.....

....ET VOILA! I could Play! My connection issues had improved immediately!

* I was able to join several quick matches (one a 10 player DM!).
* I was able to join invited games.
* I could still host!

I did get dropped a couple of times from games, but out of about 10 attempts to play I was able to connect 8 times without problems

So. If you are suffering the dreaded connection problems more than sporadically look into what NAT type you router is using and do everything you can to change it to full cone nat/one-to-one nat.

Thanks man I'm going to try this out I hope I could do it though I'm nor to smart when it comes to doing all this.

danielthesniper
  • danielthesniper

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2008

#4

Posted 30 May 2008 - 03:50 PM

huh, so how do i change my NAT to full cone?

good job finding this out by the way cookie.gif cookie.gif

theAudiologist
  • theAudiologist

    -LCC-

  • Members
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2008

#5

Posted 30 May 2008 - 06:47 PM

Sounds promising...but,

Anyone know how to change the NAT to one-2-one on the BT HomeHub?




Lt. Dan
  • Lt. Dan

    ¡Demasiado tío!

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 May 2008

#6

Posted 30 May 2008 - 08:46 PM

I have the exact same problem as you, but I have a 360. I don't think the 360 has an IP address.

And how do I log into my router?

jeff_a_cake
  • jeff_a_cake

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 14 May 2008

#7

Posted 30 May 2008 - 10:07 PM

QUOTE (Lt. Dan @ May 30 2008, 20:46)
I have the exact same problem as you, but I have a 360. I don't think the 360 has an IP address.

And how do I log into my router?

LOOOL

jeff_a_cake
  • jeff_a_cake

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 14 May 2008

#8

Posted 30 May 2008 - 10:15 PM

QUOTE (thebritishbulldog @ May 30 2008, 12:08)
Okay,

Like many of you I have struggled for weeks with consistently getting dropped from MP. 95% of the time I can not join a quick match or one I have been invited to. I have always been able to host my own games but would get the "your connection to one of more players has been lost, returning to single player game" message when I tried to join any other game.

Sound Familiar?


I have phoned Rockstar and Sony many times and done everything they suggested to get it working:

* I have opened the ports required to access PSN and GTA4
* I have given my PS3 a static IP
* I have put my PS3 in a DMZ.
* I have setup rules in my Firewall to allow unrestricted access to the PS3
* I have enabled UPnP
* I have made sure my PS3 has "Nat 2" status.

I have done everything I can think of to get this to work....but until yesterday I would get kicked from nearly all games I tried to join.

----

Now my networking knowledge is okay, I've had to do a bit as part of my job, but this issue has been a pain in the backside for me. Until yesterday I was sure it was NOT a router/networking issue my end.... But then I started thinking objectively: Now its obvious that there are people who can play this game on MP without too many issues. So I thought it MUST be partially related to routing or the network connection... and that got me thinking about NAT (network address translation)...

NAT is not something I know a great deal about, I know its used to allow many computers on the same network to use 1 IP address to access the internet. I know what to do to get it working but I was unaware of all the different types of NAT there are. So how intrigued was I when I read this:

http://en.wikipedia....ess_translation

Now this Wiki article and particularly the nice simple diagrams of how the different types of NAT work got me thinking - What type of NAT is my router using? Now you can see from the diagrams that the best NAT type for gaming is Full-Cone-NAT (otherwise known as one-to-one NAT) as it allows many different servers access to the ports on the router which are then forwarded to the designated internal IP address (in this case the PS3) using the same port numbers. Its like a direct line into the PS3, no mucking about... "bish bash bosh". Now obviously for a normal computer that is a big security hole... you don't really want any old server access to your networked machine without your routers firewall checking it but for a console it doesn't matter so much (?).

A REVELATION!

When I checked what NAT my router was using it was not using this simplified version of NAT. It was using the more complicated PAT (Port address translation) alongside it which seemed to be confusing the issue and making the link to the Rockstar servers more unstable. I don;t pretend to understand it fully but reading the wiki article made me think about trying to change my NAT type.

* So I logged into my router.
* I changed my NAT type to one-to-one (also called full-cone-nat) and entered the IP address of the PS3....
* I booted up GTA4 and tried to enter MP.
* I tried to join a quick DM.....

....ET VOILA! I could Play! My connection issues had improved immediately!

* I was able to join several quick matches (one a 10 player DM!).
* I was able to join invited games.
* I could still host!

I did get dropped a couple of times from games, but out of about 10 attempts to play I was able to connect 8 times without problems

So. If you are suffering the dreaded connection problems more than sporadically look into what NAT type you router is using and do everything you can to change it to full cone nat/one-to-one nat.

i got bt home hub with firmware 6.2.6.E
how do i do all wot u said for that? im not the brightest person =/

thebritishbulldog
  • thebritishbulldog

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Apr 2008

#9

Posted 30 May 2008 - 11:17 PM Edited by thebritishbulldog, 30 May 2008 - 11:44 PM.

Okay this is definitely the way to solve MP connection issues. I have just played a 16 man TDM, 8 man DM, 4 man Turf War without any problems.

GET FREE-CONE-NAT!

I think I have also figured out why this affects the PS3 more than the Xbox: The PS3 uses a lot more ports to access PSN and the game servers than the Xbox does to access live. Which means there are more ports to block unintentionally. And since the blocking is on the network level a DMZ just doesn't cut the mustard.

BTW If people post their router models (please be specific) I and I am sure others will try to help them sort the issue to.

Lt. Dan
  • Lt. Dan

    ¡Demasiado tío!

  • Members
  • Joined: 15 May 2008

#10

Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:40 AM

I am using a Lynksys WRT54GS.

get954murked
  • get954murked

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 May 2008

#11

Posted 31 May 2008 - 04:17 AM

i have this damn problem all the time and im not smart with doing it i have net gear and i have ps3 can someone pls help me thx

get954murked
  • get954murked

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 29 May 2008

#12

Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:47 AM

I HAVE A NETGEAR WPN 824 I DNT KNOW USER NAME OR PASSWORD

thebritishbulldog
  • thebritishbulldog

    Trick

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Apr 2008

#13

Posted 31 May 2008 - 09:08 AM

QUOTE (get954murked @ May 31 2008, 04:17)
i have this damn problem all the time and im not smart with doing it i have net gear and i have ps3 can someone pls help me thx

you should try forwarding your ports first:

http://www.portforwa...ion_Network.htm

That link tells you how to do it.

wartox
  • wartox

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 May 2008

#14

Posted 31 May 2008 - 09:42 AM

This solution sounds promising yes, I enter to my router settings but I don't know where to change my NAT type. I'm using a U.S. Robotics Modem. There's a part called NAT in the settings but it doesn't ask anywhere to select my NAT type. Can someone help please?

Lit3
  • Lit3

    Meh.

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 May 2008

#15

Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (thebritishbulldog @ May 30 2008, 13:08)
Now obviously for a normal computer that is a big security hole... you don't really want any old server access to your networked machine without your routers firewall checking it but for a console it doesn't matter so much (?).

So what would this mean? If I changed the NAT type to one-to-one, does that mean that my laptop connected to the same router would be unprotected?

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#16

Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (wartox @ May 31 2008, 09:42)
This solution sounds promising yes, I enter to my router settings but I don't know where to change my NAT type. I'm using a U.S. Robotics Modem. There's a part called NAT in the settings but it doesn't ask anywhere to select my NAT type. Can someone help please?

what's the model number?

BTW some routers won't support full-cone-nat (most will though)

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#17

Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:18 AM Edited by tootricky, 31 May 2008 - 10:39 AM.

QUOTE (Lit3 @ May 31 2008, 10:11)
QUOTE (thebritishbulldog @ May 30 2008, 13:08)
Now obviously for a normal computer that is a big security hole... you don't really want any old server access to your networked machine without your routers firewall checking it but for a console it doesn't matter so much (?).

So what would this mean? If I changed the NAT type to one-to-one, does that mean that my laptop connected to the same router would be unprotected?

Not necessarily. You would still have your firewall in the way. Its just the router is using restricted or symmetric NAT to filter traffic before it gets to the firewall; it allows stuff through as long as the NAT rules are matched and an out going packet has been sent. So you send out a packet on port 20970 and can receive a reply from any server to that port. My Zyxel router has a firewall too as well as the option to change NAT settings, they are independent of each other (can't say the same thing for other routers though). I even have the option for different internal IPs use different NAT rules.

Unfortunately different routers seem to handle this stuff very different ways. For example in a D-link router you just need to click "Gaming Mode" to activate full-cone-nat.

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#18

Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:21 AM Edited by tootricky, 31 May 2008 - 10:38 AM.

user posted image

Symmetric NAT only allows traffic from "paired" IPs. Only the server that was sent a packet can send one back.

user posted image

Full-Cone-NAT allows traffic to any open port from any server. This allows servers that exchange information to still contact the host IP without being blocked (as long as they use the same port number). It seems GTA4 uses a networking method that requires this kind of access.

The above is from this Cisco article (its heavy going I warn you!)

http://www.cisco.com...-3/anatomy.html

Lit3
  • Lit3

    Meh.

  • Members
  • Joined: 18 May 2008

#19

Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:52 AM

I probably sound a bit of an idiot, but where do I find my router settings? mercie_blink.gif

roadieX
  • roadieX

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 31 May 2008

#20

Posted 31 May 2008 - 11:18 AM

Its good that we may be getting to the bottom of this. I knew it was my router as soon as I plugged my PS3 straight into the cable modem........14 players on deathmatch instantly. The problem is, how do you find out what kind of NAT your router supports?

I have a Netgear RP614v4 wired router.......I cant see any option to change the NAT type sad.gif

I would happily buy a wireless router, what kind of router are you using BritishBulldog?

wartox
  • wartox

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 May 2008

#21

Posted 31 May 2008 - 12:47 PM

My router is U.S. Robotics USR9110 and I'm using it wireless with my PS3. But I can't see any option to select my NAT type in router settings. Any help?

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#22

Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:05 PM Edited by tootricky, 31 May 2008 - 01:23 PM.

QUOTE (wartox @ May 31 2008, 12:47)
My router is U.S. Robotics USR9110 and I'm using it wireless with my PS3. But I can't see any option to select my NAT type in router settings. Any help?

NAT > Address Mapping

Global IP is the IP address of the router
Internal IP is the IP of your PS3 (put the PS3 IP address in both boxes)

What this basically does is allow access through you public IP to your PS3 without messing about with port address translation (which NAT would normally do). PAT seems to be the issue with GTA4. here is a good article on it and why circumventing it might be the answer to our GTA4 MP woes:

http://www.webopedia...NAT_and_PAT.asp

If you have a dynamic router IP address from your ISP you may be able to leave the global IP address 0.0.0.0 and let the router work it out, but it depends on the router tbh, you might have to put the actual public IP address of the router in to get it to work.

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#23

Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:10 PM Edited by tootricky, 31 May 2008 - 01:15 PM.

QUOTE (roadieX @ May 31 2008, 11:18)
Its good that we may be getting to the bottom of this. I knew it was my router as soon as I plugged my PS3 straight into the cable modem........14 players on deathmatch instantly. The problem is, how do you find out what kind of NAT your router supports?

I have a Netgear RP614v4 wired router.......I cant see any option to change the NAT type sad.gif

I would happily buy a wireless router, what kind of router are you using BritishBulldog?

Zyxel 660HW wireless router... it came free with my broadband supply. Its pretty good, but the issue is that Zyxel tend to specialise in security hardware so I wouldn't recommend them for gaming. The thing with routers is that they all handle this stuff very differently. I look after the network at work which uses D-link router and its a completely different system.

wartox
  • wartox

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 May 2008

#24

Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:50 PM

TooTricky really thanks for your help. But I have a few more questions. When I look at the IP adress of my computer from network connection, it shows something with 192.168.x.x but when I tried it in a web site it showed something like 88.264.x.x. I don't know what really my IP adress is bored.gif And in PS3 settings I can see my IP with 192.168.x.x. Which one will I write to the router settings? I don't know if I have a static or a dynamic IP adress.

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#25

Posted 31 May 2008 - 03:30 PM Edited by tootricky, 31 May 2008 - 03:42 PM.

QUOTE (wartox @ May 31 2008, 14:50)
TooTricky really thanks for your help. But I have a few more questions. When I look at the IP adress of my computer from network connection, it shows something with 192.168.x.x but when I tried it in a web site it showed something like 88.264.x.x. I don't know what really my IP adress is  bored.gif And in PS3 settings I can see my IP with 192.168.x.x. Which one will I write to the router settings? I don't know if I have a static or a dynamic IP adress.

I think for the global IP you can leave it 0.0.0.0. If that doesn't work then it should be the 88.264.x.x one. The problem with that is that your ISP most likely gives you a dynamic IP which means unless you keep your router on permanently then you are going to have to keep changing the global IP address...

You PS3 internal ip address would be 192.168.x.x but it needs to be static. It doesn't look like your router will do that for you (sometimes you can set a particular mac address to a static Ip address... your router doesn't do that) so you will need to setup the PS3 to use a static IP address.

How to configure a static ip:

http://endlessparadi...hread-5097.html

The important thing to note is that the last digit in the PS3 ip address needs to be high so its out of the normal DHCP range. something like 192.168.x.100 would work fine.

wartox
  • wartox

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 May 2008

#26

Posted 31 May 2008 - 03:43 PM

Well probably my IP is because when I tried 0.0.0.0 it gave an error saying "The IP is invalid". If my PS3 hasn't a static IP how can I do it for the PS3?

tootricky
  • tootricky

    Totally Fraked

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007

#27

Posted 31 May 2008 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (wartox @ May 31 2008, 15:43)
Well probably my IP is because when I tried 0.0.0.0 it gave an error saying "The IP is invalid". If my PS3 hasn't a static IP how can I do it for the PS3?

You need to set a static IP for the PS3... see above, I edited my post with a guide.

wartox
  • wartox

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 May 2008

#28

Posted 31 May 2008 - 04:07 PM

Thanks for your help mate.

wartox
  • wartox

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 17 May 2008

#29

Posted 31 May 2008 - 04:28 PM

So, this configurations in my router will help GTA 4 multiplayer improve and set my NAT Type to FULL CONE?

roadieX
  • roadieX

    Player Hater

  • Members
  • Joined: 31 May 2008

#30

Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:09 PM

I havent touched the primary DNS and secondary DNS settings, do these do anything?




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users