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The Chain Game Rallies

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rubregg
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#91

Posted 16 August 2007 - 11:17 PM

@OrionSR
Phew, you've surely done loads of great research there. I've been away for a few days, but I continued brushing up the map for Skipping Palomino. I'm going to put it on a website similar to those collectibles maps with clickable in-game pictures, so I had to learn a bit of javascript (from scratch). I'll have even less time than usual for the coming 2 weeks, but what I have so far looks promising. What's left to do is getting the map clickable, which I'll figure out eventually.

@crazyanurag
Hey, great to see you back, mate biggrin.gif
Hope you'll get that disc back soon...

OrionSR
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#92

Posted 20 August 2007 - 07:33 PM Edited by OrionSR, 24 August 2007 - 04:58 PM.

I posted a different version of this report in another topic, but thought you'd want to see it. The angles I've been setting for vehicles in text IPL files haven't been working out for me, but I finally figured out a decent solution. But more importantly, I've managed to isolate the always display flag so I can force vehicles to appear exactly where we want them so we'll have much less trouble with spawning. For example, the Bullet will suddenly appear on the walkway in Palomino as CJ exits the safe house. But I still don't have a way to supply nitrous on a spawn or strip the engine off a spawning NRG.

I figured out a system that is working for placing the correct vehicle rotaion through text IPLs. I tested several vehicles with "angles" (as set in the IPL) from -4 through 8 and noticed the difference between the "rotation" (as measured by GTACC) was approximately 57 degrees. I used this figure to calculate angles for text IPL vehicles and got the placement I was hoping to achieve. But 57 degrees is such an odd angle that I converted my figures to radians, rounded, and came up with 40 radians or 56.25 degrees per unit of angle. Actually 41 radians or 57.65 degrees was a little closer to my average, but 40 radians per unit makes more sense than 41. Anyway, I'll update this if I can narrow it down any further. Meanwhile, the formula below should work fairly well. I'm back to using 57 to convert to "angles", 56.25 was over rotating my vehicles. I supposed it helps it read the definitions, I thought radians were simply a 256 "degree" version of a 360 degree circle, but it turns out to be quite different. Anyway, the proper factor should be 180/pi, or 57.2958.

I tried setting various numbers in the Flag field, but the only change I observed in the save file was that the 2 flag was set if an odd number was entered. When set, the 2 flag will force the vehicle to appear as CJ exits or loads to that location. If you don't hide it around a corner or something the vehicles will suddenly appear out of thin air.

Description: # X, Y, Z, A, Vid, Color 1, Color 2, Flag, Alarm, Lock, ?? (usually 0), Value (usually 10000)
IPL Format: 2210.581, 118.2939, 26.53699, 4.737, 522, -1, -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 10000 //NRG-500 Palomino
Cords Compass: NRG-500~#xcord#, #ycord#, #zcord#, 0, 522, -1, -1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 10000 //NRG-500 |0|0|0|0|0|0


# X, Y, Z, Angle, Vid, C1, C2, Flag, Alarm, Lock, ??, Value

Angle=Degrees/~57.2958 (180/pi)
Flag of 1, -1, (odd) = always spawns



BTW, <Cords Compass> by Xmen, is a very handy tool for placing items and vehicles. It doesn't provide a reading for angle, but I need to convert the angles manually anyway so it's not a big handicap. It works great for pickups. I keep different copies of the program and it's configuration file in subfolders so I can have a vehicle and pickup window running at the same time. I've got a fairly complete file for the pickups, I'd post it here but there are almost 50 lines, and I've been posting too much stuff on editing in a racing topic anyway. But here are a couple of lines for an example. The Train Track setting was provided by the author. I think the -1 value will place the item at CJ's feet, and I should probably start using that value for my vehicles. The A- in Ring Box stands for Armor; I plan to do a search and replace with the hex editor and fix them all at once.

Train Track~#xcord# #ycord# #zcord# 0|0|0|-1|0|0|0
A-Ring Box~39, #xcord#, #ycord#, #zcord# //A-Ring Box |0|0|0|0|0|0

rubregg
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#93

Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:22 PM

... just very briefly popping in to say 'hi' & to catch up with things. Like I said I've hardly got any time at all though this week & next, but I just wanted to let you know I'm not gone... I've nudged Kusak into trying out our 3 nearly finished races and he seems to have lots of fun so far. (and no, I haven't given away any of the palomino jumps...)


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#94

Posted 24 August 2007 - 04:32 PM Edited by OrionSR, 24 August 2007 - 04:57 PM.

Well, you're having better luck than I am. I tried talking Phreak into trying the events, but didn't have any luck. I found this to be a little depressing. If I can't get him to try the rallies I'm not sure anyone will. I've been spending my spare time working on a starter save for the chain game. I've learned a few new tricks, but I'm saving them for a surprise. The new tricks don't really seem to have any benefit for rallies anyway.

We need some sort of summary for our current events. The ones I posted are fairly incomplete since none of the achievements are listed, and it's buried in the middle of the thread and hard to find unless you know where to look.

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#95

Posted 24 August 2007 - 11:45 PM

Don't mind me.
I'm breaking in a new joypad controller, - so I'm basicly out of control at anything exceding grandma speed atm. rolleyes.gif

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#96

Posted 25 August 2007 - 05:28 PM

Ah! There's hope yet. Speed isn't really the concern; not hitting things and running a clean route should be good enough to earn the gold medal. There's roughly 20 to 30 seconds of slack in each event to allow room for extra stunts, achievements, posing, and mistakes. Most of the fun is suppose to be searching out the jumps and routes. But you tend to work quietly until you can post the best time, so I'm never sure what you are up to.

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#97

Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:27 AM Edited by rubregg, 09 September 2007 - 09:30 AM.

...eerr... don't mind me.... I'm sort of back. Real life will keep me busy enough though, so I won't have the time to really get into save game editing on your level, OrionSR. But still, as I mentioned, I kept working on a web presentation of the Skipping Palomino Creek Jumps while I was away. It took me a while, because last time I made a web page was 10 or 11 years ago (yes, seriously blush.gif ) but I finally seem to be getting the look-and-feel the way I want it to be. All in all I'd say roughly 80% should be completed, including the complicated bits. I hope it'll be a pleasant surprise once it's up.

...and it might actually be needed. Now Kusak is a fairly experienced player, but he gave up eventually, said it took him ages to find jumps. He didn't find too many either... The good news is: no problems with the save game.

As for the collection of where we stand with the rallies and all the major summaries / infos - I do suggest we edit the first posting(s) of this topic for this. That way it won't get lost. So I could either put it all into my first posting, or we could share the load in the first couple of postings, maybe one posting for each rally would be a good idea. I haven't checked yet, but I suspect most of the original postings' contents might be obsolete by now so they can be 'overwritten'. If some important information was there anyway, we could still leave that at the bottom, maybe edited to a small font size.

Oh, and: Hi GTA Phreak ! Good to see we have company round here... biggrin.gif

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#98

Posted 09 September 2007 - 03:18 PM

Oh, hey. Welcome back.

How about if I get rid of that wall of text, perhaps post some administrative detail that you won't need to change, and clean up that little message, and then you can have a relatively clean 1st page to work with. Or, edit the 1st couple of messages for now, but plan on starting a new topic for the actual release of the event(s). We can keep this topic active for administrative purposes and reduce unnecessary clutter in the event topic. This was where I thought we were headed eventually anyway.

The save file editing has gotten a bit out of hand. pdescobar has returned, and we're teaming up to create a new save for round 20 of the chain game. I've pick up a few tricks, and some will definitely be useful for rallies. Fortunately, the need to hex edit files continues to be reduced. I got into massive IPL editing for a while, now pd has me writing code as well.

I'm reluctant to discuss too many of the new discoveries. I'm holding on to several as a surprise for the round after next. Skipping Palomino and Badlands Endurance are both being integrated into the save, but I'll probably add bulletproofing to the Bullet to deal with the gangs. I'm not having any luck keeping an NRG near Katie's house, but this really isn't too much of a concern. The question is, would you prefer to wait until round 20 and enjoy the hunt for changes, or would you like to be in on the testing of the new save?




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#99

Posted 11 September 2007 - 08:40 AM

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Sep 9 2007, 17:18)
Or, edit the 1st couple of messages for now, but plan on starting a new topic for the actual release of the event(s). We can keep this topic active for administrative purposes and reduce unnecessary clutter in the event topic. This was where I thought we were headed eventually anyway.

Yes, I see it this way too. Let's keep using this topic for administrative clutter discussions (happily for all rally or chaingame related off-topicness as well) and post an extra "Rally Pack" topic once we got it together. Still I generally think one posting per race is a good idea. This way it's easier to link to a specific race and also we can share the load of keeping race infos up-to-date (rules details, medal standards, scoreboard, etc).

What do you think of that for now?

...sooo...
What races do we have up to now...:
definitely: Skipping Palomino, Badlands Endurance, Katie Jumps
discussed: Swat Vigilante, Redsands Westking, 4star LV weapon run, (anything else?)

Let's see... I have the first posting - I'd suggest using that for a bit of introductory babble. Then you have 2 consecutive postings, after that I have 3 consecutive postings (uh-oh... ah, I can always delete some...). So, if you want to post and moderate all your suggested races, you post them and I'll delete my postings. If you're fine with sharing the load, what about if I posted Skipping Palomino, since I'm making the jump-finder? Or, whatever else you're happy with, of course...

This way you could use your 2 postings to post "Badlands Endurance" and "Katie Jumps", next I'd post "Skipping Palomino" and maybe "Redsands Westking" (or maybe not yet?) and let's leave the rest for now?


QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
The save file editing has gotten a bit out of hand.
(...)
... or would you like to be in on the testing of the new save?
Have you guys discussed the modding issues in a topic or in pms? I think I remember you mentioning you posted in the modding forum, didn't you? Could you give me the link(s) please? I'm still interested in the basic how-to and all....

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Skipping Palomino and Badlands Endurance are both being integrated into the save (...)
Ok, so now I am just too sodding curious. Hell yes, I'd like to test. I hope I have enough time, but I'll do the best I can. Also I should really get my Skipping Palomino Jump Finder up before round 20 starts then.... aaaaaah, no pressure..... nervous.gif ... LOL.....

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#100

Posted 11 September 2007 - 09:18 AM

Okay then, this is good news. The project has become quite complex, and I could really use your help integrating 4-star challenge and rally events into the save. I'll send you a PM with the information you need. We were doing a lot of our work with PM, but this quickly became difficult to manage so were using another tool. The process is being documented thoroughly and hopefully will be useful for anyone else trying to do something similar, but for now we're holding on to the best secrets.

Whatever you want to do with the Rally Challenges is fine with me. I'm really tied up with trying to get this save working the way I have planned, so if you are willing to take the lead on the rallies, I'm perfectly happy to follow.

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#101

Posted 12 September 2007 - 11:15 PM

Got held up with the new scriptchanger version today. Tomorrow's work all day, so I guess I'll look into this Friday.

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#102

Posted 06 October 2007 - 01:58 AM

I've finally worked my way through all the scraps I could find and summed up the current rally situation in the edited top of thread.


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#103

Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:57 AM Edited by OrionSR, 09 October 2007 - 08:08 AM.

The new front page looks really good. Below are a few comments:

Badlands Endurance - mark me down for Tunnel Rat, Scout, Frogger, Stuntman, and Rockstar. I was working on Pimp but was having problems with cash, so I'm not sure if I ever pulled it off with a gold time - something to work on.

Skipping Palomino - I'm pretty sure I managed the achievement for the Silver Bullet, but I don't think I posted a screenshot. I'd better get my records in order. We should clean up the notes a little - make it sound more official.

Katie Jumps - I'm not so sure I like the idea of holding a Premature achievement. 11 was my old record, so that was my initial standard for gold. However, since I'm fairly certain that 14 is possible, and the even spacing of 14, 12, 10, 8 is a lot more... even, so it look better this way. Still, I worry that 12 will be more frustrating than intended. How about P-14, G-11, S-10, B-9, then Platinum can be way over that top?

SWAT / FBI Vigilante - unfortunately, neither the SWAT, nor the FBI Truck, have any proofing if spawned from a generator. The FBI Truck in the Mulholland garage in Chain Game 20 has Bulletproofing and Fireproofing added so it has the same properties as the SWAT if it's jacked from End of the Line.

Open Issues - New achievements look good.
RW - It's easy to load at a safe house that exits to the Big Ear Tower, but PD can probably show us how to save and load anywhere - it's a CLEO thing. However, the Big Ear Sandking is not in the save, so I can't make it spawn more reliably. Also, the distance from the top of the tower (I think it must exit to the top) to the Big Ear disk, can be a difficult gauntlet without a good vehicle - not the best idea for a 4-star training challenge.

Again, really nice work, and good timing as well. So how do we go about coaxing someone into trying out a rally? My thought is Badlands might be a good starter. If we get someone hooked on that one maybe they'll try a more challenging event.

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#104

Posted 09 October 2007 - 09:17 AM

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Oct 9 2007, 07:57)
The new front page looks really good. Below are a few comments:
Thanks mate, and good to see you back smile.gif

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Badlands Endurance - mark me down for Tunnel Rat, Scout, Frogger, Stuntman, and Rockstar. I was working on Pimp but was having problems with cash, so I'm not sure if I ever pulled it off with a gold time - something to work on.
Done.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Skipping Palomino - I'm pretty sure I managed the achievement for the Silver Bullet, but I don't think I posted a screenshot. I'd better get my records in order. We should clean up the notes a little - make it sound more official.
Achievement added and notes cleaned up, well, a little. I also put the "cross bridges only once" bit into the "Restrictions" section, it seems to fit better in there. Well, have a look...

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Katie Jumps - I'm not so sure I like the idea of holding a Premature achievement.
hehe... Well, if you can think of a better name for the achievement, just shout... 'All-Too-Eager'? ... 'Big-Boned'?... Same for 'Safe Tripper', btw... wink.gif ....and while we're at it - 'Pimp' in BE sounds a little boring, don't you think? hmmm.... what about 'Joy Rider'?

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Katie Jumps - (...) 11 was my old record, so that was my initial standard for gold. However, since I'm fairly certain that 14 is possible, and the even spacing of 14, 12, 10, 8 is a lot more... even, so it look better this way. Still, I worry that 12 will be more frustrating than intended. How about P-14, G-11, S-10, B-9, then Platinum can be way over that top?
What about P-13, G-11, S-9, B-7 ? ...that would be an even spacing, but I'm afraid you'll shout 'too easy' ...??

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
SWAT / FBI Vigilante - unfortunately, neither the SWAT, nor the FBI Truck, have any proofing if spawned from a generator. The FBI Truck in the Mulholland garage in Chain Game 20 has Bulletproofing and Fireproofing added so it has the same properties as the SWAT if it's jacked from End of the Line.
I don't mind missing proofing for this event. Makes it a bit more challenging - and you can repair at save house garages.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Open Issues - New achievements look good.
RW - It's easy to load at a safe house that exits to the Big Ear Tower, but PD can probably show us how to save and load anywhere - it's a CLEO thing. However, the Big Ear Sandking is not in the save, so I can't make it spawn more reliably. Also, the distance from the top of the tower (I think it must exit to the top) to the Big Ear disk, can be a difficult gauntlet without a good vehicle - not the best idea for a 4-star training challenge.
This was only an idea that sprang to my mind. Actually I thought you already knew where to have a save loading anywhere you want. I was thinking about some of the chain game testers. You also had a test file in this thread that loaded somewhere up the hill next to Toreno's ranch, and one that loaded on the field near Blueberry Acres, didn't you?

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Again, really nice work, and good timing as well. So how do we go about coaxing someone into trying out a rally? My thought is Badlands might be a good starter. If we get someone hooked on that one maybe they'll try a more challenging event.
Thanks smile.gif
Yeah, I really hurried to get this done by the time we reached the Badlands. I'm feeling bad enough that I hardly had any time during the hot testing phase for the cg20 save... Anyway, at the moment, those players interested in specials will probably be busy exploring all the cg20 stuff. Also we're way past the Badlands now - so I'd say let's shut up about the rallies for now (the remainder of this round), sort out some more stuff here and concentrate on the odd glitches that seem to appear in cg20.

Once we've reached the end of round 20, we can post another plug to this topic. And next round, once we reach the Badlands we can both advertise heavily in the chain game thread. Hey, thinking about your forgetting to lock the Ft. Carsons save house in cg20 - what about leaving the Palomino Creek save house open from start in cg21? Bullet and NRG in the garage (aren't they already, anyway?), and then we can keep saving out there even during early LS turns (maybe we can get JAJ, ryan92 or girishb to do this too) and challenge the next player to 'while you're there, you might as well give BE or SP a try' [plus link to the rally descriptions]. Something like that?



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#105

Posted 09 October 2007 - 09:08 PM Edited by OrionSR, 09 October 2007 - 09:12 PM.

Safe Tripper: It's Not Easy (Being Green), Simple Green, Valley of the Jolly (Green Giant)
Premature: Necromancer, Desperado, Stalker, Nooner
Pimp: did we ever provide enough cash to get this started? Hooker Crook, Pro-Laps
QUOTE (rubregg)
What about P-13, G-11, S-9, B-7 ? ...that would be an even spacing, but I'm afraid you'll shout 'too easy' ...??

Too easy. Actually, I'm not all that worried about Silver or Bronze, but Platinum needs to be as close to perfect as possible. So the main question is 11 or 12 for the gold? 12 is everything except the airport jumps, or 1 jump every 30 seconds, that seems like a reasonable standard. Let's go with what we've got.
QUOTE (continued)
I don't mind missing proofing for this event. Makes it a bit more challenging - and you can repair at save house garages.

I've got to give FBI Vigilante another shot. What I was hoping for with the BP/FP FBI Truck is something that would make the traditional drive-by type of vigilante mission possible. The FBI Truck handles well, is reasonably fast, and seems to have a lower ride height that the FBI Rancher, so not as many drive-by shots miss the target vehicle.

So which do you think would be a better Homie Vigilante vehicle - a BP/FP Police Car, or a BP/FP FBI Rancher? Both will hold 3 passengers. The extra weight and durability of the FBI Rancher would probably help, but I get really frustrated when half the shots CJ fires go over the top of the car.
QUOTE (continued)
This was only an idea that sprang to my mind. Actually I thought you already knew where to have a save loading anywhere you want. I was thinking about some of the chain game testers. You also had a test file in this thread that loaded somewhere up the hill next to Toreno's ranch, and one that loaded on the field near Blueberry Acres, didn't you?

Yes, but... The load locations at Blueberry Acres, Fern Hillside, and another in the Hashbury Neighborhood are specific locations, I can't change them. Basically I'm telling the game to start at a non-existent save location and for some reason this leads to a repeatable glitch. Using the door or wardrobe of a safehouse to start CJ at any pre-existing door is pretty easy. But the only way I know to load a save at a specific location is to use CLEO, and PD has handled all the mission coding, so I'm not sure how it's done. The other alternative would be to take the next step and create a mission pack to support the rallies. PD has already suggested this method to solve most of the problems we are having by using game saves to set up the rallies. We can have timers, checkpoints or coronas, weather control, prizes, vehicles with special properties, and even create reward vehicles and pickups.
QUOTE (continued)
... what about leaving the Palomino Creek save house open from start in cg21?

Um... activating the garage is easy enough, so is unlocking the front door. It would probably be best to leave the house unavailable for purchase until the Badlands open up, but that's not a big deal. But if we are going to discuss chain game development, we should probably take the conversation some place more private. Don't want to give away the secrets too easily.

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#106

Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Oct 9 2007, 23:08)
I've got to give FBI Vigilante another shot. What I was hoping for with the BP/FP FBI Truck is something that would make the traditional drive-by type of vigilante mission possible. The FBI Truck handles well, is reasonably fast, and seems to have a lower ride height that the FBI Rancher, so not as many drive-by shots miss the target vehicle.

So which do you think would be a better Homie Vigilante vehicle - a BP/FP Police Car, or a BP/FP FBI Rancher? Both will hold 3 passengers. The extra weight and durability of the FBI Rancher would probably help, but I get really frustrated when half the shots CJ fires go over the top of the car.

Beware that homie vigilante in a bulletproof car might not work!
The homies doesn't consider vigilante targets enemies before they get hit, CJ gets hit or the car gets damaged from hits (I'm not totally sure about the criteria)
In fact taking a homie in the SWAT is a very bad idea, - he'll only shoot the cops (or enemy gang members) -> faster cop car catches fire and runs into the back of the SWAT -> SWAT isn't explosionproof -> game over rolleyes.gif
But it might be enough if they can get hit through the windows of a regular copcar, - unlike CJ they can get killed in a (non-BP) car.
I agree that the FBI Rancher is crap for drive-by's, - but I really like it's handling.

Vigilante in the chaingame FBI Truck is easy (easier than with the HPV).

Don't know if this is the right place, - consider making a new chaingame discussions thread?

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Oct 9 2007, 21:37)

So that leaves 1 more new unique jump in SF - jump5, and of the new jumps, only jump4 and jump6 have been completed; is that correct?

The roof hopping sequence isn't really mapped out very well. The new jumps were added fairly late, so for the most part they are experiments in how to make the starting and landing zones work properly, and trying to set up cool camera angles. I'm starting to think about reworking the jumps for the next round, so any feedback would be appreciated. I'm not sure if I should put much effort into this area as the new jumps haven't been generating much interest, but we should at least whittle the list down to 70 so SAMA doesn't get confused.

I'm not sure what you mean about visuals aligning with realities in the area of the jump, but I did notice that the collision modeling didn't always match the structures that were displayed. Level of Detail was occasionally a problem during tests, but I figured this was because I kept teleporting directly to the location.

The NRG should have the force spawn flag set, I'll check to be sure. Most of the problem I had with getting it to respawn was reduced if I made sure to travel a short distance away from the spawn point. This engine seems to have a lot of problems calculating Z distance, so I usually take a short trip north and allow at least 40 seconds between respawns.

And thanks for calling out the vehicles you've found. I kind of figured the map would be a little more filled out by now - for the most part, I didn't try to hide them. Are they too obvious? Are you unhappy with the parking spot for your vehicle, or was that intended as more of a hint to it's location?

BTW, now that the clues are back online - did you ever figure out the mystery tag you mentioned in a previous post?


I'm pretty sure someone else cleared jump #5, - unless it is very picky. I got little over 350 ft. just past the lightpole without scoring.

If you continue onto the next roof from where you land jump#6 then the physical roof is higher than the visual roof, - usually just enough for the NRG not to make it, leaving CJ stranded (luckily CJ don't die from falling with max'ed health)

By me the NRG spawn is pretty irregular, at least when parachuting in. And being stranded without the bike is painful wink.gif
The trick that worked for me is to glide past, if it doesn't spawn the continue for the Stuntplane and circle once. Then it would usually be there when returning.

As for my car, - that's ok.
It was a tricky salvage op. to get it out in mint condition though biggrin.gif (didn't know it would get it's tag back when painted)
So was the getting the Cabbie to Ft. Carson btw.

Regarding new vehicle spawns, - I can't really remember what the normal ones are moto_whistle.gif So unless the new ones stands out in some way then I probably won't notice.


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#107

Posted 10 October 2007 - 02:58 AM Edited by OrionSR, 10 October 2007 - 09:32 PM.

QUOTE (GTA Phreak)
Beware that homie vigilante in a bulletproof car might not work!

I was worried about that. I didn't have a chance to test everything to see how the different vehicles would work. I remember you mentioning getting very close to level 12 is a police vehicle, and I thought SMG toting homies was part of the equation, so I was trying to think of a way to tip the balance a little more in CJ's favor. We should have access to the other Vigilante vehicle I added fairly soon, then I can make some comparisons.

CG20 Vigilante Vehicles
• 2 HPV-1000s
• 2 FBI Ranchers
• 3 FBI Trucks (one BP/FP)
• 3 SWAT Vans (one BP/FP)
• 1 LVPD Police Car (BP/FP)
• Rhinos - (possible to collect from LV?)
• Hunters (unlocked by missions)

QUOTE
Don't know if this is the right place, - consider making a new chaingame discussions thread?

Actually, I think this topic was created for any "off-topic" chain game discussion, it's just that most of the conversation has been about rallies.

Nope, new jump #5 is still not found and is incomplete. This one is similar to new jump #6; it shouldn't be possible to include in the Katie Jumps Rally. So what did you think of the camera angle for jump6?
QUOTE
If you continue onto the next roof from where you land jump#6 then the physical roof is higher than the visual roof, - usually just enough for the NRG not to make it, leaving CJ stranded (luckily CJ don't die from falling with max'ed health)

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Also, there are several soft spots in the roof structures of some buildings that aren't solid and CJ can fall though. At one point I landed a little low when trying to jump from one building to the next, and ended up inside the building.
QUOTE
By me the NRG spawn is pretty irregular, at least when parachuting in. And being stranded without the bike is painful

Ah yes, the Stunt Plane should work fairly well. I was dropping to the other side and grabbing Toreno's (Police) Maverick when the NRG didn't spawn. I too have learned my lesson about landing on the roof without a vehicle.
QUOTE
It was a tricky salvage op. to get it out in mint condition though (didn't know it would get it's tag back when painted)

I thought there was a pretty good exit location near Fallen Tree; I'll check again. I chose the location for your car long before deciding on a vehicle. The Infernus has a bit of a problem with damage, but it doesn't tumble down the slopes as much as many of the other vehicles I tried.
QUOTE
Regarding new vehicle spawns, - I can't really remember what the normal ones are.  So unless the new ones stands out in some way then I probably won't notice.

Yeah, well... not sure what I can do about that. I was hoping the vehicle map would be fairly complete by the end of the round, I'd like to post a complete map next time around. Anyway, thanks again, and keep up the good work. Don't forget the easy ones - I can think of two within sight of the Doherty Garage. But then again, one is a legacy vehicle from previous rounds, and those aren't on the new map either.

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#108

Posted 10 October 2007 - 11:43 AM

Rallies
QUOTE (OrionSR @ Oct 9 2007, 23:08)
Safe Tripper: It's Not Easy (Being Green), Simple Green, Valley of the Jolly (Green Giant), Greenhorn [added] ?
Premature: Necromancer, Desperado, Stalker, Nooner, High Noon [added]
Pimp: did we ever provide enough cash to get this started? Hooker Crook, Pro-Laps
Yes, if I'm not very much mistaken you made the save load with $20 for this purpose. So are you completely against names for the KJ achievements that 'hint' at the whole dating/coffee aspect? I was hoping my suggestions would somehow mirror Rockstar's own humour on the topic...

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
QUOTE (rubregg)
What about P-13, G-11, S-9, B-7 ? ...that would be an even spacing, but I'm afraid you'll shout 'too easy' ...??
Too easy.
See... lol.gif
QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Actually, I'm not all that worried about Silver or Bronze, but Platinum needs to be as close to perfect as possible. So the main question is 11 or 12 for the gold? 12 is everything except the airport jumps, or 1 jump every 30 seconds, that seems like a reasonable standard. Let's go with what we've got.
I approached this from the opposite direction - I was not starting to think about platinum, but trying to make the lower medals not look too hard. Reason - I'm still thinking about the problem of getting people to do the races. This seems tricky enough in the first place and I don't want to frighten them straight off by all too hard medal limits. Another aspect to consider: it is a 4star rally after all. Now you and I and some other players don't mind that too much anymore, but think of less-experienced 4starers. Anyway, I'll leave it the way it was (14-12-10-8) for now.

Another thing we will have to consider: Should more SF jumps get added / replaced in future rounds, we'll have to keep the complete number of KJ-doable jumps constant.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
I've got to give FBI Vigilante another shot. What I was hoping for with the BP/FP FBI Truck is something that would make the traditional drive-by type of vigilante mission possible. The FBI Truck handles well, is reasonably fast, and seems to have a lower ride height that the FBI Rancher, so not as many drive-by shots miss the target vehicle.

So which do you think would be a better Homie Vigilante vehicle - a BP/FP Police Car, or a BP/FP FBI Rancher? Both will hold 3 passengers. The extra weight and durability of the FBI Rancher would probably help, but I get really frustrated when half the shots CJ fires go over the top of the car.
To be *quite* honest - I hardly have *any* experience in 4-wheeled vigilante. My reported efforts in SWAT and FBI-Truck vigilante, and that's basically it. Early on in my SA experience I gave up on cars, decided to best do it on the HPV, and never gave cars another try. About the FBI Truck - It took me a while to get used to its driving behaviour, esp. off-road. It's a bit on the bouncy side and I roofed it a couple of times. I think Phreak mentioned this too, didn't you? You certainly have to be careful with where & when to use the nitro. I didn't take homies along, but I did a couple of standard drive-by killings which seemed to work fine. Didn't do too many of these though, not being EP and all...


QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
(...)But the only way I know to load a save at a specific location is to use CLEO, and PD has handled all the mission coding, so I'm not sure how it's done. The other alternative would be to take the next step and create a mission pack to support the rallies. PD has already suggested this method to solve most of the problems we are having by using game saves to set up the rallies. We can have timers, checkpoints or coronas, weather control, prizes, vehicles with special properties, and even create reward vehicles and pickups.
Point taken. ...and Oh YES, this method of mission coding would of course beat everything else. Thing is, I probably won't have the time to dive into this in an appropriate way.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ cont.)
Um... activating the garage is easy enough, so is unlocking the front door. It would probably be best to leave the house unavailable for purchase until the Badlands open up, but that's not a big deal. But if we are going to discuss chain game development, we should probably take the conversation some place more private. Don't want to give away the secrets too easily.
...I'm with you - did only mention this here because it was meant to be NOT a secret...


@GTA Phreak
QUOTE (GTA Phreak @ Oct 10 2007, 01:54)
Don't know if this is the right place, - consider making a new chaingame discussions thread?
QUOTE (rubregg @ front page)
Edit:
This topic is still The Chain Game's general "Off-Topic Lounge" even though the main focus at the moment is on rally racing.
This is exactly the right place, mate - I'm actually glad that finally someone posts something non-rally-related in here smile.gif


Unique Jumps
I've had an extended look at those - but not within the chain game and I didn't post anything for obvious reasons. Got held up with one of the jumps though and didn't really make it to the SF ones yet. I've completed #1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10 and had a very brief look at #6. With #6 it was actually my first impulse to grab the Toreno Maverick to check out the area. BTW, I did #7 (this is my favourite so far. sweeet!!) in the FBI Truck (and made a screenshot). Phreak, now I really hope I won't be accused of neglecting the FBI Truck anymore... wink.gif

Added vehicle spawns
It's good this came finally up. I am actually *very* surprised that hardly any of those are being reported. I've already bumped into quite a few which actually sprang at me. Then again, many people might not recognize them as 'special/added'...? Some players even got so used to the previous specials that things like this happened in a plain v2 round lol.gif


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#109

Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:36 PM

Disregard my comments on the new jump #5, - I had it mistaken for the regular jump #48 blush.gif

I think it is overly optimistic that players should be able to figure that jump out, - but maybe adding the Mountainbike and the Nevada to the map will help wink.gif
I didn't get it before I had given up and started roof-hopping for fun.

I'd say the camera angle is ok on #6. #5 is a bit scary, - it never looks like you're gonna make it.

@Orion: If you mean the Towtruck and the FCR that is far to ordinary to get reported, with all the special saves being used.
Other vehicles: Towtruck at the dock, Euros on mt. Chiliad, Sandking somewhere in Angel pine and I think there was quite a few more Quads hiding in the woods than usual.
Oh and there was a PCJ near the safehouse by Woozies and some noodle party in the back.

I've had some success with car vigilante with and w/o homies, once I worked out how the vehicle health bonuses worked out.
But the methods aren't really cg friendly, - hardening a police vehicle will add quite a few mission attempts.

If you're content to occasionally whip out the minigun then it's quite doable (use the minigun on the full cars and drive-by the last for full 30% bonus).

Another tactic which might work is to run it at 3-4*'s and frequently jack new police cars using tear-gas (tnx. to jheath for that trick).
I've used that lately in 4* territory with great results.

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#110

Posted 10 October 2007 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE (rubregg)
So are you completely against names for the KJ achievements that 'hint' at the whole dating/coffee aspect? I was hoping my suggestions would somehow mirror Rockstar's own humour on the topic...

No, the references are fine, I was just hoping to find something less emasculating. My favorites are Greenhorn, High Noon, and Pro-Laps (Pro-Lap, Pro-Lapse).
QUOTE
I approached this from the opposite direction - I was not starting to think about platinum, but trying to make the lower medals not look too hard.

I agree, but still want to hold Platinum at 14, so the standard is: 11-9-7 for gold-silver-bronze, and 14 for anyone who can ace the city. This is more that way I'd like to organize things anyway. Have gold at the top of the list - this is the identified standard. Then silver and bronze should use a standard that would be the natural progressing showing improvement. Platinum is reserved for whatever the maximum possible is predicted to be - no one should be able to post anything higher.

Vigilante Challenges

I don't think of the vigilante mission as something only done once at the beginning of the game, perhaps this isn't the best plan for a chain game - resources might be better spent someplace else. I kind of figured the BP/FP FBI Truck would make early vigilante pretty easy, but I tried to make other choices available as well. Since I like running vigilante missions in the Badlands north of LS, I put a few vigilante spawns in that area.

Unique Challenges
•Jefferson HPV-1000: a challenge for anyone who wants to start the game by hopping on the bike and completing vigilante without any bike skill. One trip to the armory should provide enough ammo for the job
• Normal vigilante vehicles: spawns in Montgomery, Dillimore, and Mulholland - it should be practical to continue a mission if the current vehicle is destroyed - jack anything and head for a known spawn. However, to make this challenge unique, I should probably substitute the Badlands cop bike for a cop car.
• LS SWAT - didn't know it wasn't Bulletproof, it's not in a very useful position, so...
• A BP/FP SWAT was added to make up the the lack of proofing from vehicle generators. This is a mini-gun combo challenge
• BP/FP FBI Truck locked in Mulholland garage (requires $120,000 to use it) - drive-by only?
• Might be possible to collect a Rhino from LV
• Hunters not available without doing missions
• BP/FP Cop Car is still locked - now I'm not so sure if this was the best choice. Intended for Homie Vigilante
• EP/BP? FBI Rancher Vigilante (not included in CG20): To distinguish this challenge from the SWAT mission, perhaps the Rocket Launcher should be the required heavy weapon. May as well allow drive-bys. Explosion proofing was added due to the unpredictable nature of the rocket kills; I always expect people to be able to avoid the vehicle explosions, and rely on the vehicle health bonus to make up for occasional mistakes.
QUOTE (rubregg)
BTW, I did #7 (this is my favourite so far. sweeet!!) in the FBI Truck (and made a screenshot).

Thanks, I was happy I actually found a good location for that jump. I was afraid I would need to add an jump object to get it to look the way I wanted. But I am worried about the out of the way location - that must have taken some effort to get the FBI Truck into position for the jump. I wasn't too sure if I wanted to keep this jump.
QUOTE (GTA Phreak)
Disregard my comments on the new jump #5, - I had it mistaken for the regular jump #48. I think it is overly optimistic that players should be able to figure that jump out, - but maybe adding the Mountainbike and the Nevada to the map will help
I didn't get it before I had given up and started roof-hopping for fun.

Yeah, the Nevada was supposed to be the big clue here, but if no one spots it then there isn't much chance of the jump being found. I had intended to leave trails of money or something to lead CJ towards the jumps, but pickups ended up being in short supply. Also, we didn't know about the problems with SAMA not reporting the new jumps until it was too late to change everything, so we sort of figured they'd be easy to locate.
QUOTE (GTA Phreak)
@Orion: If you mean the Towtruck and the FCR that is far to ordinary to get reported, with all the special saves being used.
Other vehicles: Towtruck at the dock, Euros on mt. Chiliad, Sandking somewhere in Angel pine and I think there was quite a few more Quads hiding in the woods than usual.
Oh and there was a PCJ near the safehouse by Woozies and some noodle party in the back.

Check again, there's no towtruck at the dock this round; it doesn't handle the tracks very well. And no Quads are included in the save, those must all be normal spawns. I've no idea why they'd spawn more often - we didn't/can't change their properties.

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#111

Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:19 PM

New Jumps
Is this the right spot to discuss these? Anyway, I'll keep trying not to give away too many details. First of all, I for one really like the idea of having a couple of new ones. Very enjoyable trying to figure them out and all... Yup, it's too bad that not too many players seem all too eager about them. I guess the same people that used to do the old ones will be on the new ones. So it's up to you, OrionSR, if you want to follow up on those. I certainly don't think it's a pressing issue though and we don't need new jumps in each round, but if you added/changed the odd jump every once in a while, whenever you happen to stumble upon good new ones, that would be great! ...and actually, I think jump #4 should have been in the game in the first place... smile.gif

As for the total number of jumps I think some of the old jumps could just as well be removed to keep the total number at 70. Then SAMA can be used to check out the new ones.... A quickly-drafted first list of removal candidates has already been introduced to the development team.

So I toyed around with jumps #5 and #6 yesterday. For #5 I agree with GTA Phreak to put the Mountainbike on the map. I'm not so sure about the Nevada - Mountainbike plus Jump location on the map should be enough. I'm fine with the NRG for jump #6 on the map, but I don't consider it necessary - should be an automatic find on checking out the jump location.

For jump #6 I think the landing zone is far too big (I remember a note about this in the introduction). So: what about picking just one of the possible roofs? I'm for one of the closer-distanced ones so that a careful approach is needed rather than just flooring it.

QUOTE (GTA Phreak)
I'd say the camera angle is ok on #6. #5 is a bit scary, - it never looks like you're gonna make it.
I agree, but I still like the camera on #5 - adds a bit of tension whether you're going to make it...

QUOTE (OrionSR)
QUOTE (rubregg)
BTW, I did #7 (this is my favourite so far. sweeet!!) in the FBI Truck (and made a screenshot).
Thanks, I was happy I actually found a good location for that jump. I was afraid I would need to add an jump object to get it to look the way I wanted. But I am worried about the out of the way location - that must have taken some effort to get the FBI Truck into position for the jump. I wasn't too sure if I wanted to keep this jump.
I'm for keeping it, it's spectacular! ...and no, it wasn't so bad to get the FBI-Truck there, in fact I found it very entertaining.


New Vehicles
Isn't the 'noodle party' near Woozie's always there? ...Or am I just falling into the gotten-used-to-previous-specials trap here?


Rallies
QUOTE (OrionSR)
My favorites are Greenhorn, High Noon, and Pro-Laps (Pro-Lap, Pro-Lapse).
front page edited -> Greenhorn, High Noon, and Pro-Lap
QUOTE (OrionSR)
I agree, but still want to hold Platinum at 14, so the standard is: 11-9-7 for gold-silver-bronze, and 14 for anyone who can ace the city. This is more that way I'd like to organize things anyway. Have gold at the top of the list - this is the identified standard. Then silver and bronze should use a standard that would be the natural progressing showing improvement. Platinum is reserved for whatever the maximum possible is predicted to be - no one should be able to post anything higher.
I agree with this approach. KJ medals changed to 14-11-9-7. What about SP, should Platinum be changed to 14 there?

Vigilante Challenges
May I throw into the pool of suggestions: Minimal Kill Vigilante, an idea borrowed from the SA Minimal Kill Challenge. Finish level 12 with keeping your kills ('people you've wasted' stats) minimal, i.e. only kill the criminals, but no peds, cops etc...

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#112

Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:24 AM

Sorry to interrupt this conversation, but how can I tell which juoms are which and how do I match them to a number? Are these jumps from a specific map or something?

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#113

Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:55 PM Edited by OrionSR, 12 October 2007 - 04:57 PM.

11 new unique stunt jumps were added to chain game 20, and 1 of the standard jumps was removed to keep the jump count at an even 80. We didn't notice until too late that the San Andreas Mission Analyzer (SAMA) didn't display all the jumps - it seems to be limited to only 70. And we didn't learn that the jump order (the jumps SAMA will display) changes until after we started playing the current round, so the jumps are a little messed up. We will reduce the total of number jumps to 70 on the next round, then SAMA can continue to be the preferred tool for checking the status of jumps and collectibles.

The new unique stunt jumps are marked on the map posted on the 1st page <current map>. They are marked jump1 through jump11. Jump4 and jump6 have been completed, and jump9 has been found but is not complete. You can try to use SAMA to figure out which jumps are still on the map, but as noted before, it may not display all the jumps. The map I usually use to number the standard jumps is provided by dark52, and is available through GameFAQs.com and a number of other sites <Jump map at GameFAQs.com> <dark52's (darkspyro) FAQ page)>. If you want a map with screenshots, checkout <this jump map>, but I seldom use this number system.

BTW, if you are talking about the Skipping Palomino jumps, check out rubregg's map on the 1st page of this topic. The jumps used in Katie Jumps and Badlands Endurance are numbered according to the dark52 map.

QUOTE (rubregg)
Isn't the 'noodle party' near Woozie's always there? ...Or am I just falling into the gotten-used-to-previous-specials trap here?

Yeah, the noodle party is always there, and Phreak is well aware of this location. He helped map the vendor carts for the 4-star topic quite a while ago.

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#114

Posted 13 October 2007 - 12:40 AM

Vigilante Challenges

6 Star Rhino Vigilante - actually not terribly challenging, but adds a bit of spice to the mission. There can be some tricky parts - I had problems crossing back and forth across the bridges better Red and Bone Counties. That alley in SF used in the Wu Zi Mu drive-by mission can be a struggle in a Rhino, and LS is full of little traps where it's difficult to get unstuck if the Rhino gets bumped off the road. Still, it's one of those missions that could go on forever if the game doesn't crash. My problem was running over a bribe I didn't know about behind Foster Valley; once I was down to 5 stars, nothing I could do would raise it again.


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#115

Posted 15 October 2007 - 10:50 PM Edited by OrionSR, 15 October 2007 - 10:57 PM.

GTA Phreak mentioned the idea of adding some boat jumps to the chain game. I think this would be a nice feature to add to the chain game, perhaps in round 22. I strongly suspect boat jumps are possible, but haven't tested the idea yet. Here are some thoughts on the matter.

In general, I'd like the new unique stunt jumps to be "connected" somehow. A connection could be a series of jumps, a jumps that is inline with other USJs, or somehow associated with a chain game rally or challenge. I'm worried that new jumps will be added where cool jumps are available, which is fine - I guess, but in the end we may end up with another set of random jumps and no way to connect them in a fun and efficient manner.

I was considering the possibility of an epic jumping challenge that includes all areas of the map. One of the problems with this plan would be crossing between LV and SF, or for that matter, jumping from LV to LS. If a boat was spawned in the proper location and USJs were added then this would solve my concerns about starting and finishing in restricted territory. BTW, I really wanted to get rid of just the Gant Barriers, but it doesn't seem possible to make this change on a save.

It's possible to add new objects, such as jump ramps and the boat ramps used in boat school. For the most part, we've been trying to keep the save objects to a minimum, but a new ramp here and there might be a good use of this feature. Unfortunately, adding new dynamic objects such as sprunk machines doesn't work in the save. I can add these object with an IPL file, but the custom of the chain game is to only mod the save.

If you'd like to experiment with new jumps, vehicles, and objects, it's possible to create them on a new save with a few simple modifications to some text files. Well, jumps and vehicles are easy enough, but I haven't figured out how to rotate objects properly yet. This is the process I used for testing. Once I get everything working properly the IPL format is changed to game code and PD works it into the script.

BTW, I'm considering this as developing a new rally more than a modification to the chain game save. If we decide to work on this, everything can be developed here with a specific save in mind, and once we get it all worked out we can see if we can work the challenge into the next new starter save.

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#116

Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:17 AM

Sorry to be rude, but I don't think anyone has answered my question.

How do I find these jumps? And how did you get the numbers? Are they on a specific map, and if so, where can I find that map?

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#117

Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:44 AM

There's a map in the <first post>
<Map>

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#118

Posted 17 October 2007 - 03:31 PM Edited by rubregg, 17 October 2007 - 04:24 PM.

@Stefan Matovic Cvetkovic
QUOTE (Stefan Matovic Cvetkovic @ Oct 17 2007, 13:17)
Sorry to be rude, but I don't think anyone has answered my question.

How do I find these jumps? And how did you get the numbers? Are they on a specific map, and if so, where can I find that map?


First of all: Welcome to this topic smile.gif
Then, have a closer look, OrionSR has answered your question at length in this posting.

As is stated at the very top of this topic, the main focus here at the moment is on Rally development, but this is still the Chain Game's Off-Topic Lounge and we've also talked about the new unique jumps in there. Soooo since we actually don't quite know what jumps you were talking about (the new added Unique Stunt Jumps we had in round 20 of the chain game, the jumps of the "Skipping Palomino" Rally, the jumps of the "Badlands Endurance" Rally, or the Unique Stunt jumps in SF you can do in the "Katie Jumps" Rally), OrionSR has answered your question for all these cases... wink.gif



@JAJ
Thanks for the help and thanks for the plug in the chain game topic smile.gif



@everyone
With the Chain Game being on hiatus, I've had my morning-wake-up breakfast run on giving Katie Jumps another try. ...would like to post a

Smashing Record:

Platinum - 14 jumps in 5:55 max. - perfect score - YAY biggrin.gif
Got loads of screenshots, but don't want to give away the route quite yet. At least not here... wink.gif --> but here's a shot of the final jump. ...in an earlier try I also *finally* managed to be premature , ...eerr...., I mean the High Noon achievement lol.gif
user posted image user posted image




@OrionSR
I haven't thought about vigilante things in a while, but the ideas for a jump rally sound very intriguing. Something around the map, with different vehicles.... nice! Well, but first let's get round 21 started...

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#119

Posted 17 October 2007 - 07:19 PM

QUOTE (rubregg @ Oct 17 2007, 08:31)




@everyone
With the Chain Game being on hiatus, I've had my morning-wake-up breakfast run on giving Katie Jumps another try.  ...would like to post a

Smashing Record:

Platinum - 14 jumps in 5:55 max. - perfect score - YAY  biggrin.gif
Got loads of screenshots, but don't want to give away the route quite yet. At least not here... wink.gif --> but here's a shot of the final jump. ...in an earlier try I also *finally* managed to be premature , ...eerr...., I mean the High Noon achievement lol.gif
user posted image user posted image


@OrionSR
I haven't thought about vigilante things in a while, but the ideas for a jump rally sound very intriguing. Something around the map, with different vehicles.... nice! Well, but first let's get round 21 started...

Well done, rubregg. When I last attempted Katie Jumps I was fairly sure 14 was within reach, just barely. It looks like I was right - not much time left for mistakes.

Perhaps we should compile a list of extra challenges for CG21:
  • 4 Star Pimping in LV
  • 4 Star Taxi in SF (40 in a row during testing)
  • 4 Wheel Vigilante (Montgomery HPV is now a LS Cop Car)
  • SWAT/FBI Truck Vigilante
  • Collect (saved) Early Rhino (possible?)
  • Collect Early Hydra or Rustler
  • Collect Early Mod Vehicles
  • Collect Early Sea Sparrow
  • Collect Early Turismo or Hustler

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#120

Posted 18 October 2007 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Oct 17 2007, 21:19)
Well done, rubregg. When I last attempted Katie Jumps I was fairly sure 14 was within reach, just barely. It looks like I was right - not much time left for mistakes.

Perhaps we should compile a list of extra challenges for CG21:
  • 4 Star Pimping in LV
  • 4 Star Taxi in SF (40 in a row during testing)
  • 4 Wheel Vigilante (Montgomery HPV is now a LS Cop Car)
  • SWAT/FBI Truck Vigilante
  • Collect (saved) Early Rhino (possible?)
  • Collect Early Hydra or Rustler
  • Collect Early Mod Vehicles
  • Collect Early Sea Sparrow
  • Collect Early Turismo or Hustler

Katie Jumps
Thanks smile.gif
...yup, it was a nearly perfect run with Katie, and still just 5 or 6 seconds within the time limit. I think the route you take between the jumps is extremely important, also shortcuts. Same for the High Noon achievement, there's even less margin for error there.


CG21 Challenges:

sounds fine

...vigilantes with restricted ammo or to what level?
...'collect early (vehicle)' means 'stash anywhere' or 'bring to LS'?





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