Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

The Chain Game Rallies

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
250 replies to this topic
OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#31

Posted 23 July 2007 - 07:22 AM

I spent a little time working on splits today. Now that I'm getting the hang of it, I really like your route into Dillimore. The route I was using is just as fast, but more inconsistent. The direct route I was using into Unity Station compares fairly well with the route you posted, but requires an exit in order to maintain speed and get the last 2 jumps, so I'm switching over to a route similar to yours, but eliminated a couple of turns. Traffic really sucks in one section, but otherwise it seems very fast. For the most part there is only a second or two difference either way, and it's difficult to be sure if the route is better or if I drove it faster. All three endings were pretty much the same - you might want to try your safe route next time you are on a good run, or practice that other route I mentioned - it's more consistent than the other two. I don't know how you plan to make those last 2 jumps if you are burning nitrous on that east/west section through LS on the way to the Unity jump. I can't land it without nitrous, it's not even close. BTW, the ped jump can be made in a Bullet without any assist if everything goes perfectly. I can't hit it consistently yet, but managed it a few times.

So anyway, here's my best ending screenshot for the day's efforts. 3:45, which I thought was pretty good, but now I think it only matches my previous score. I made a lot of mistakes, so the platinum medal may be within reach.


user posted image

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#32

Posted 23 July 2007 - 09:53 AM

Just got 2 Katie Jump saves finished before work, got to rush now. Try out these: version 1 -- version 2

Weather should be alright until 20:00 or 22:00, around then a short thunderstorm (2-3 minutes) came when I tried them. Should be enough time to do the challenge in good weather though. Getting the weather right over such a long stretch of time seems really tricky and a lot down to luck / try-and-error...

I did these files from an original save from the chain game, round 15. It's got the extra vehicles and weapons. Weaponry is as in the original file, only AK47 changed to M4. Weapon stats untouched, the important ones are already Hitman. Ammu untouched. CJ's stats maxed, except flying stat, so you don't have the easy access into SF airport for the jumps there. NRG challenge is done. No unique jumps were done; one was found which I removed. Insane Stunt stats cleared. One file has the original chain game file's set of clothes, the other one clothes similar to the other Badlands Endurance file. Pick your choice. The NRG in the garage has a special 'Grove Green' colour, maybe there can be an extra award if you can keep that vehicle intact throughout the challenge?

Have fun jumping.
Should we max the flying stat as well, so there's more jumps available in the time limit (the 2 inside the airport)?

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#33

Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:34 PM Edited by OrionSR, 24 July 2007 - 05:33 AM.

Yes, easy access to the airport would be better. There are only 14 jumps within range, so getting the gate open should expand the possibilities. I managed to score 11 without them, with practice, and access to the airport, I suspect I can do a little better.

The rain is late enough that it shouldn't cause a problem unless someone gets there very late. If I hurry, I can get to Katie's place a few minutes before she gets home, so the starting time appears to be ideal.

I spent an hour or so with the Control Center trying to get an engineless NRG to spawn without any luck. Hundreds of bikes were spawned, and they all had all their pieces. Either this vehicle is very, very rare, or they've cleaned up this glitch somewhere along the line.

I liked the green outfit better, it went with the bike (nice color choice) - but with Katie on the bike it sort of looks like Christmas. I think a unique outfit for the different races might help me identify which event I was working on. Sometimes I get in a hurry while reloading and select the wrong save.

Since CJ is heading into 4 star country, I think he should be armed with the SMG as the game loads. Also, too many weapons is a bit of a liability, perhaps getting rid of the silver weapon, camera, or anything else that could get in the way would help out people who aren't as familiar with the stresses of 4 star survival.

Nice work rubregg. It's been a long time since I've tried this challange, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Edit: I finally spawned and engineless NRG. I saved it with your Grove Green NRG at Santa Maria Beach, and then made a few modifacations to the save. I got rid of the lame weapons, maxed out all the skills, equipped the SMG in hand, tweaked the time, and saved the game at 3:00 so it would load at 9:00. Then I took the weird looking NRG to visit Katie, and scored 12 jumps. No wonder people are superstitious about the qualities of this unusual bike.

I'm going to check the weather now that Katie has bailed, and then I'll post a copy of the save. I'm not sure about including the engineless NRG on this event, perhaps it would be more appropriate on the Skipping Palomino Rally. But this unique bike might be an added incentive for people to try out the game saves, and hopefully the Rallies as well.


<Engineless Katie Jumps>

Give this save a shot. It seems okay on my end. No rain, at least until 06:00, but it does get a bit foggy just before daybreak.

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#34

Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:04 AM Edited by OrionSR, 24 July 2007 - 10:39 AM.

<Skipping Palomino Rally>

Loads at 17:30. Target time is 22:00. (4:30)

I managed to spawn another engineless NRG for the save you provided with all the clothes unlocked. So I dumped the Bullet, changed CJ into some biker clothes, tweaked the weapons a little, and then messed around with the weather editor in GTA Control Center. If you use this function, watch out for the extended weather patterns. They do some very strange things to the scenery: the water doesn't show or obscure, structures are drawn in late or not at all, and I eventually got into a hall of mirrors. This was saved with the gamesave. So I tried again and found some nice colors in the one of the scorchers, and then rolled back the clock to save. I think this is the best weather I can hope for.

I also had some problems swapping weapons with the control center. The icons didn't always appear as expected when you switch to the new weapon.

Edit: Although I really like the time, weather, and colors on this save, I'm a little worried that it might be too dark for the last 2 or 3 jumps. I would suggest saving a few times to make a practice save during the day. It would provide more daylight for searching out the jumps and learning the lines. Do you think I should post some screenshots or other hints about the jumps? I'm not sure if the challenge is finding them, or landing them and finishing in time.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#35

Posted 24 July 2007 - 10:02 AM Edited by rubregg, 24 July 2007 - 11:02 AM.

'Engineless NRG' - eh?.....what?.....how?.... wow.gif Didn't know about that vehicle at all, can't wait to try it out.

The green outfit and the weaponry came with the original chain game save I used for this one. I was first going for a yellow NRG but there's only 1 shade of yellow there to use and an all-yellow NRG looks really odd.

I guess all Hitmen and slightly less baggage could be helpful. I'm with you on the flying stat/airport access issue, a slightly bigger selection of jumps can't hurt. Yet, I normally 'waste' one of those on my initial way to Katie's. Different clothes for all events - fine by me. Although I wasn't going to put that much of an effort into clothing - the length of those wardrobe animantions being one of the most annoying things of the game for me... lol.gif Oh, those Katie Jumps saves I posted yesterday have 'all clothes' too.

I also noticed the glitched weapon icons the Control Center produces. I switch and set weapons with the save game editor, that one didn't have glitches here so far.

About the weather: I've tried setting the weather with the Control Center (didn't touch the extendeds though) but that only seemed to affect the actual starting conditions of the race. On one of my Badlands Endurance saves I always got fog after about a minute. Setting a 'starting weather' didn't seem to affect that at all, I could only get rid of the fog by having CJ stand around, wait for the fog to pass and *then* save. Something similar happened when I worked on the Katie Jumps saves. The best results I got was again when I saved directly after SF fog had cleared, I used the Control Center's teleporter. On some point I even tried manual editing of the bytes in the save file that are supposed to be the 'weather timer' but that affected the weather *and* the clock, so meh.

Right now it seems the best strategy about weather is, actually wait in-game for rain or fog to have *just* stopped (in the region where you want to do the race in) and then save.

Together with the mentioned armour glitch of the save game editor *and* my intention to have all Insane Stunt Stats set to zero, my process of making a save file is an alteration of using the save game editor and the control center. Biggest drawback is that you can never use the save game editor last to change small things on existing good rally saves. Whenever you use the save game editor you *have* to set the armour to 100 or less. If you don't touch the armour setting, you'll end up with infinite armour (and a crashing Control Center). So after using the save game editor you'll always have to load that game, set armour to 150 (by pickup or Control Center). With the Control Center you'll have to be a bit careful too - it has a tendency to make CJ damageproof, I think this might happen during teleporting so you don't die on a long drop. Be careful to switch that off manually before saving, although I haven't tried if it'll stay across saves.

As for Katie Jumps, I set the starting time to 9:00 on purpose. Forgot to mention the suggestion of another 'extra award' if you make it to Katie's house before 12:00. My best score so far is 9 jumps but I'm sure with a bit more practice I can get one or 2 more...

Oh, and thanks for the link to Glenster's guide - seems I've got the same link and only got confused by the date it says on top.

Now I'll have a look at that engineless NRG. How did you get it anyway? Just spawn a quick 700.000 NRGs and suddenly there she stood? lol.gif

Update:
excuse my english, but roflmao lol.gif - That engineless NRG looks funny!! I also like the clothes you picked for the Skipping Palomino save. Cool. Only thing that confused me about this save - it loads at 17:30, isn't it supposed to load at 10:00 or did you change the times? guess I overlooked your comment on this

Have you tried another colour for the bike to go with the clothes? A really dark red or something maybe?

I'd suggest using the engineless NRG for the Skipping Palomino rally and the regular green one for Katie Jumps. Both saves should have just one NRG in the garage and I'd suggest clearing out the Insane Stunt stats for the Palomino save as well, since the challenge is all about jumping.

So, I see you agree with my idea of 5000-ammu smile.gif I think 5000 should be enough and I personally don't like 10000+ ammu because you can't see how much you have left in your clip anymore.

Where are we now?
Badlands Endurance - starts at midnight, black Bullet, white outfit
Katie Jumps - starts at 9:00, green NRG, green outfit
Skipping Palomino - starts at ( ? ), engineless NRG (black / other dark colour?), biker outfit

righties?

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#36

Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (rubregg @ Jul 24 2007, 03:02)
Now I'll have a look at that engineless NRG. How did you get it anyway? Just spawn a quick 700.000 NRGs and suddenly there she stood? lol.gif


Yep, that's pretty close. I spawned NRGs until it wouldn't spawn any more, then blew them all up and started again, or loaded because the cops got really upset in a hurry. I filled up the halfpipe of the BMX challenge, and covered the roof of the Pay'n'Spray, I drove in circles and spawned them one after the next, I stood still and spawned/replaced them in rapid succession. Then, taking a clue from the few screenshots and topics dealing with the subject, when to the Johnson House and tried to spawn them inside the garage, but they came springing out of the roof. However, there on the roof was my engineless NRG. I'm not sure, but I think it helps if there is a different type of bike in the garage when I do the spawning. To get quick spawns, I made a spawn NRG cheat with the control center so I only needed to press one key, and then programmed that key as a button on my gamepad.

In case you missed it, I added a comment about the save time for Skipping Palomino. I haven't tried the save game editor, and was hoping you might be able to zero the stats. Maybe it isn't necessary, but I probably undid some of your work while trying to get the engineless NRG to spawn.

Katie Jumps, like horseshoes, is one of those events where it helps to practice without the wanted level. The ones that give me the most trouble are that awkward little bump heading towards the hospital, and the jump over the freeway between the gym and the stadium. Now I'm working on good connecting lines, but they sure aren't easy to find. Whoever put in these jumps didn't seem to put any thought into connecting one to the next. My main problem now is finding a consistent route when random roadblocks keep messing everything up and forcing a different path. That, and jumping over a roadblock and getting my tires shot out, but there isn't much that be done about that other than repairing the bike.

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#37

Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (rubregg @ Jul 24 2007, 03:02)
Update:Only thing that confused me about this save - it loads at 17:30, isn't it supposed to load at 10:00 or did you change the times? guess I overlooked your comment on this

Have you tried another colour for the bike to go with the clothes? A really dark red or something maybe?

I'd suggest using the engineless NRG for the Skipping Palomino rally and the regular green one for Katie Jumps. Both saves should have just one NRG in the garage and I'd suggest clearing out the Insane Stunt stats for the Palomino save as well, since the challenge is all about jumping.

So, I see you agree with my idea of 5000-ammu  smile.gif I think 5000 should be enough and I personally don't like 10000+ ammu because you can't see how much you have left in your clip anymore.

Where are we now?
Badlands Endurance - starts at midnight, black Bullet, white outfit
Katie Jumps - starts at 9:00, green NRG, green outfit
Skipping Palomino - starts at ( ? ), engineless NRG (black / other dark colour?), biker outfit

righties?

Please try out the Skipping Palomino Rally and provide advice on the start time. I like the color of the evening sky, but finishing a little sooner is nice and orange - like my original plan.

I altered the colors on the bikes before I worked on the end time, so perhaps a different color would be better. I was thinking perhaps a deep purple would go well with the outfit and sky.

How about the medic uniform, dogtags, Aviators, and red Barret for Katie Jumps? It seems appropriate for the mission, and I seldom date Katie while wearing her special outfit.

5000+ plus rounds of SMG, M4, and mini-gun ammo should last the duration of the Rally, don't you think? I got in the habit of switching weapons frequently for fast reloading, so the missing counter doesn't mess me up too much. But yeah, I prefer to know how many rounds I have in my clip.

I haven't used the save game editor, can you please provide a link? Or, perhaps it would be better if you finalized all of the saves.

Yes, the 3 Rallies that you listed are the only events for which we currently have saves. Mini-gun is in reserve, no saves as of yet. What about Redsands Westking? Are we leaving it as a challenge, or should we upgrade it to a full event?

And it's really late, so I'm off to bed. Judging my your spelling, your clock is probably close to 8 hours ahead of mine. I'm on Pacific Time so it's just now starting to get light.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#38

Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:43 PM Edited by rubregg, 24 July 2007 - 09:04 PM.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Jul 24 2007, 13:54)
How about the medic uniform, dogtags, Aviators, and red Barret for Katie Jumps? It seems appropriate for the mission, and I seldom date Katie while wearing her special outfit.
I do like this idea. Still that would get rid of the last tie-in to the chain game. So what about your suggested outfit and the original weapons/ammu from the chain game save? There should be enough ammu and we could still make them all hitman. Also this challenge shouldn't be primarily about fighting, so I'm usually only using the minigun anyway, if at all (to get rid of nasty road-blocks), and there was enough minigun ammu in the original file. Remember the idea to get people into the chain game or from the chain game into doing 4star stuff? If we left the weaponry 'original' we would have the tie-in to the chain game, plus if someone asks about the minigun, we could point towards the extra weapon and vehicle spawns. all-5000 is fine for some challenges but looks too tampered to start with for anyone to get curious. In this case I was quite happy that the chain game file came with appropriate weaponry.

Still, you were quite lucky with your weather, well done! Once I got a bit of fog around 3ish, but only when I hung around near the seaside in the northeast. Once I stayed close to the stadium and had completely fine weather until 9 next morning.

QUOTE
5000+ plus rounds of SMG, M4, and mini-gun ammo should last the duration of the Rally, don't you think?
Yeah, I actually think that should be enough for most if not all challenges. I'm also basically ok with dropping all unnecessary weapons - with one exception, could we keep the molotovs? I'm not used at all to not having the sniper in my scrolling cycle, but that's fine, easy to get used to.

QUOTE
I haven't used the save game editor, can you please provide a link? Or, perhaps it would be better if you finalized all of the saves.
Didn't I? Anyway, here it is. You'll also have to install the gtkmm runtime environment, and that installer will download and install yet another runtime environment (gtk+ or something). Everything you need is in the link though and it all works fine for me.

The changing of the save file name is done by manually editing some bytes of the save files. You'll need some sort of 'real editor' for this, i.e. a hex editor. I'm using ultra edit. The tricky thing is calculating how to change the checksum (the last 4 bytes of the file) so the file will be accepted by the game. For that you'll have to do a few calculations in hex (you can use the standard windows calculator for that, switch to 'scientific' view). It's a bit of fiddling but not that hard once you've got the hang of it.

The checksum is the last 4 bytes of the file. It's simply the sum of all the bytes of the file (except those last 4). Written as a hex number, and the byte order reversed. Say the checksum is 01234567 in hex, your last 4 bytes would be 67 45 23 01.

The save file name starts from the 10th byte of the save file (and ends with 00s), so: Edit to new name. Add up sum of all 'new bytes', subtract the sum of all 'old bytes'. Add the result (or subtract if < 0) to old checksum to get new checksum. Alter checksum bytes accordingly. Done.

If you can't be bothered, I can still do it though...

Anyway, working on those saves basically took up all my time these last days and I haven't really had the chance to seriously try out or practice all the existing rally suggestion, let alone think of new ones. Or make my mind up about the Redsands Westking thing. Or practice split times. Still think we're making progress though.

QUOTE
Judging my your spelling, your clock is probably close to 8 hours ahead of mine. I'm on Pacific Time so it's just now starting to get light.
A fair guess but one hour off - I think we're 9 hours apart, I live in Germany. Have lived in Britain for a while though, learnt most of my English there and 2 of my best mates are British. My sister has a Welsh spouse. Now spot the influence, me ol' china. lol.gif

If you're on Pacific Time, are you in the northwest, by any chance? An old friend of mine back from school/uni lives in Portland/Oregon now.

Forgot to mention: Did 10 Katie jumps with the engineless NRG. Plus the one that's not unique, through those chinatown windows. What about an other 'extra award' for this? 'China Jumper' perhaps? lol
user posted image

Update:
So took your Katie Jumps file, put the ammu back to what it was in the chain game and removed weapons as you suggested. Left all at hitman level. Put on the clothes you suggested (added the silver crowlex watch) - yeah, I'd very much go with this outfit for this challenge. Removed the Insane Jump stats and renamed it. Here's again two versions - one with the normal green NRG, and one with the engineless (I'm still fascinated by that bike! can't stop giggling! way cool). Weather looks very much alright, some fog appeared around 03:30 but that gives loads of time for the challenge. Let me know what you think about those. Also let me know if you prefer the all-5000 ammu.
Katie Jumps (a) -- Katie Jumps (b)

Now I'll finally try to skip some Palomino smile.gif



Update:
QUOTE (OrionSR @ Jul 24 2007, 13:16)
QUOTE (rubregg @ Jul 24 2007, 03:02)
Now I'll have a look at that engineless NRG. How did you get it anyway? Just spawn a quick 700.000 NRGs and suddenly there she stood?  lol.gif
Yep, that's pretty close. I spawned NRGs until it wouldn't spawn any more, then blew them all up and started again (...)
lol.gif suicidal.gif biggrin.gif Good job!! They so have to be saved and kept...

Ok, so I did my first tries of Skipping Palomino. Since you asked, my approach is to first look for (and practice) jumps and then try to figure out a route. Fun stuff, but I must admit for practice reasons I did use the Control Center, so I could quickly teleport in case of water droppage. Always restarting at the save house pissed me off after a while, esp. for practicing some of the trickier jumps. Anyway, didn't get too far yet - I'm at around 7 or 8 jumps, but I'm only just past Fern Ridge. I have *no* idea whatsoever if I can squeeze them all in without crossing paths (2 might be very problematic) and I have no idea yet about the way from Fern Ridge to Sta Maria Beach, but I'll get back to it tomorrow. I like the sky a lot, but I think you're right, maybe 2 minutes earlier would be better. The orange at around 20:00 is rather scenic too. It's true, dusk seems to be a tricky time for off-road racing, light-wise....

BTW, thanks for the Insane Stunt tips, I can do triple insane ones now (although I haven't tried those on Skipping Palomino yet).

Katie Comments:
QUOTE (OrionSR @ Jul 24 2007, 13:16)
The ones that give me the most trouble are that awkward little bump heading towards the hospital, and the jump over the freeway between the gym and the stadium.
That bump towards the hospital I can do fairly well by now (even did it with a shot out tire yesterday; the bump isn't the same height everywhere, try hitting the right side of it), but you're right about the second one. I can't do it consistently, but sometimes I get a lot more height when I lean forward just as I hit the ramp. Also I'm having a lot of problems with the 2 jumps near Michelle's garage. Not the jumps are problematic, but the crash-course cop cars that spawn a lot near the ramps. Also I'm with you on suddenly spawning road-blocks that shoot out your tires. Not too much you can do about those though.

On Badlands Endurance, you mentioned the tricky start exiting the garage. For me it helps a lot to start full speed and hit the brakes hard just as you get to the pavement. This'll make the peds jump out of your way and the traffic seems a lot easier to dodge too. It generally seems the traffic patterns take a little while to adjust to abrupt speed changes. I'm using this 'trick' several times along my route across LS too, whenever traffic gets too tricky.

Phew, enough insane jumping for the day. Sleepies soon. Have fun with those Katie saves.


OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#39

Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:14 PM Edited by OrionSR, 24 July 2007 - 09:53 PM.

Okay, the Medic outfit is a keeper for Katie Jumps.

I don't care too much about the weapons and ammo, other than having the SMG equipped on loading. Let go with the orignal ammo from the chain game. Only 15 rounds of silenced pistol ammo is a bit weird. But you are correct, fighting the cops is something to be avoided on this event. I mostly just need to clear the cops surrounding the bike after a fall in order to give Katie a chance to hop back on, so I'm using the SMG and M4 so I can pick my targets carefully. So whatever you want in inventory is fine by me, except lets leave out the silver/purple/gift weapons, and most definitely no parachute. Keep a Katana or knife so clubs aren't collected, and either of the good pistols so CJ doesn't pick up cop guns. Oh, I wanted a Pool Cue for the biker outfit, but the icon was all glitchy so I went back to the knife.

Yeah, I kind of got the impression that you were working too much on saves, and not getting a chance to play, so I jumped on the Skipping Palomino save in order to give you a head start. I can probably figure out the hex editing thing, but I still think it might be better if you touched the final saves for each event. There are several little details to getting each save correct, and you seem to have developed a good system. Let me know if this is a major hassle and I'll try to be more thorough on my next event.

I'm a few hours north of you buddy in Portland, not too far from Seattle. We have nice weather today, I'd better mow the lawn while I've got the chance. Red/Blue/Green - nope, not the colors of the German flag; didn't think so.

I'll wait on some feedback on Skipping Palomino, then maybe take another look at the colors for the engineless NRG. It sort of looks like a dirt bike without the engine, so it seems more appropriate for this event. We're going with the Grove Green NRG for Katie jumps, right? Or maybe now that we have the medic outfit a different color would be more appropriate. I got the engineless save and gave it a shot. Seems like everything is in order.

Cool China jump. That's a new one on me. I've been crashing the windows of the auto dealer after painting, but don't have many extras to throw in just yet. Time is such a crucial factor that I try to stay on the jumps and haven't played around with other details. Got anything else within range of the jumps?

Alright then, I think I'll give that other Katie Jumps saves a shot and see how it goes. I keep wasting too much time fixing flats and have yet to get Katie into the airport. Let me know if you'd like some hints on some of the Palomino jumps. Or maybe we should provide some clues with the Rally after you've had a chance to search out your own plan. Some of the jumps are particularly difficult and may be discarded as impossible too soon. The jumps that give me the most trouble are the 4th jump, and the last 3 - which is too bad, I'd prefer to have the difficult jumps up front.

Added: I'm getting the hospital jump a lot more consistently now. Missing it wastes an awful lot of time. I was trying to take too much of a run at it; a short lead in is fast enough, and I can pick my line into the higher section of the bump. More of a problem is getting into position without the roadblocks. They'll spawn in suddenly as soon as the vision of the road is obsured. So for this jump I'm turning a lot instead of heading straight for it.

Same trick works well for the jumps near Michelle's. There are several timed spawns in the area (maybe worth checking them out with the Vortex) that makes things particularly hazardous. Fortunately, top speed isn't required. I take the jump over Lombard street and head down around the statue before lining up for the eastward jump. This is working out quite well. Then cut left, go up the hill, left again a block before Michelle's where there tends to be tons of cops, right at the top of the hill, and right again for a 1 block lead in to the jump. I'm trying to figure out how short I can land some of these jumps. Too much speed is a huge liability, and too much height gives the swat cops a chance to shoot out my tires.

My main problem with the start of Badlands Endurance is that I'm too picky. I'm trying for the Platinum score, and every second counts. So I'm running as the interior of the house fades in and trying to get half way down the hall by the time I can see anything (hence the problem with the Wardrobe), sprinting through the opening garage door, and trying to land that first jump before the clock ticks over to 00:20. I'm only a few seconds off my goal, and trying to scrounge them up any way I can. My other thought was trying to pick up one of the hookers as a passenger for the trip, but I haven't tried it out yet.




rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#40

Posted 25 July 2007 - 08:22 AM Edited by rubregg, 25 July 2007 - 11:23 AM.

Badlands Endurance
QUOTE (OrionSR @ Jul 24 2007, 23:14)
My main problem with the start of Badlands Endurance is that I'm too picky. I'm trying for the Platinum score, and every second counts. So I'm running as the interior of the house fades in and trying to get half way down the hall by the time I can see anything (hence the problem with the Wardrobe), sprinting through the opening garage door, and trying to land that first jump before the clock ticks over to 00:20. I'm only a few seconds off my goal, and trying to scrounge them up any way I can. My other thought was trying to pick up one of the hookers as a passenger for the trip, but I haven't tried it out yet.
I'm doing the same thing at the loading of the file. It's just that I sometimes get caught in the table and not the wardrobe. lol.gif I can usually make the first jump by 0:22, sometimes 0:21. Haven't gotten near 0:20 yet...

Update ... Edit: sry, missed a page break



Katie Jumps
QUOTE
Okay, the Medic outfit is a keeper for Katie Jumps.

I don't care too much about the weapons and ammo, other than having the SMG equipped on loading. Let go with the orignal ammo from the chain game. Only 15 rounds of silenced pistol ammo is a bit weird. But you are correct, fighting the cops is something to be avoided on this event.
...and if you have to fight them, as you said, the silenced pistol will not be your weapon of choice anyway, so I really couldn't care less about those 15 ammu. Actually I can't remember having ever really used any pistol in 4starland. But anyway, what about using either of the 2 Katie Jumps saves I posted last time as the final one? It should fit all the discussed requirements, doesn't it?

QUOTE
Cool China jump. That's a new one on me. I've been crashing the windows of the auto dealer after painting, but don't have many extras to throw in just yet. Time is such a crucial factor that I try to stay on the jumps and haven't played around with other details. Got anything else within range of the jumps?
Hehe, I only found this jump a short while ago myself, while trying out those Katie Jumps files wink.gif (you have to be a bit careful, often there's a foot cop spawning near the ramp). I think it qualifies for an 'extra award'. Can't think of anything else at the moment though, this and getting to Katie's house before 12:00. Oh, and keeping the green bike intact. Which means Doherty garage is the only place for repairs, if you're after that 'extra'.

I can now do the downtown jumps better, but one of them is still tricky because it does need a lot of speed. I'm also having my problems with the one across the windy path / Lombard Street, hard to get enough distance.


Skipping Palomino
QUOTE
Oh, I wanted a Pool Cue for the biker outfit, but the icon was all glitchy so I went back to the knife.
Try the save game editor for adjusting weapons, so far that one didn't give me glitched icons. I tried a few lot of different colours for the engineless NRG in the Skipping Palomino setting and I wasn't happy with either of them. They all looked a bit candy-like... So I was considering to maybe use the engineless green one for Katie Jumps after all (I like the green with the medic outfit) and that nice dark-red regular one you had in your last Skipping Palomino save for this event? Just a thought. Or maybe you can come up with a good colour for the engineless NRG in Skipping Palomino...


Save game editing

I can very well give them the names; it's the last thing to do after everything else is finished, so no problem. Still thought you might be interested in how it's done.

Yup, the crafting process in general (not the name thing) is a bit fiddly. Many details to keep in mind, plus the order in which to do them and the right tool to to them with. I also try not to save too often. I don't know how that would affect the weather and the "CJ has to eat" pop-up messages. In all of the saves I made I went to have a snack somewhere along the way. Do you have any idea if saving a lot without eating will make those pup-ups appear earlier, i.e. during a race?

QUOTE
I'm a few hours north of you buddy in Portland, not too far from Seattle. We have nice weather today, I'd better mow the lawn while I've got the chance. Red/Blue/Green - nope, not the colors of the German flag; didn't think so.
Hey, considering the size of your country I'd say that's pretty close smile.gif ...for that flag I picked it said 'Mars'. ...but hey, who really knows if Martians haven't got CMYK? (booh - cheap joke - sorry) lol.gif ...aaahh, guess I might change it one day but I don't hang around those board settings too often...

QUOTE
I'll wait on some feedback on Skipping Palomino, then maybe take another look at the colors for the engineless NRG.
See above on colours. As for feedback on the race - wow, this one's really insane biggrin.gif Makes you think completely different yet again. Took me a while to get used to it but now I really like it. It takes a lot of practice though and I haven't even gotten anywhere near the goal yet. Didn't have the chance yet to bother about timing either, I'm still busy looking for jumps and trying to figure out how to do them without crossing paths. A lot of water droppage. So far I'm up to 9 jumps that I can sort of do without crossing paths, but I'm not really all too sure yet about the crossing paths bit. I've got 2 more jumps but I have no idea yet how to put them in. I did the 'splashing sound' a couple of times - I think of one specific jump that seems predestined for this one. Scored Triple Insanes on 2 of my jumps so far.

All in all it's quite a hard challenge. You have to find the jumps, you have to land them, you have to worry about crossing your path and you have a time limit. Phew. Once you got going it's really cool though. Should definitely go in the pack, but let's talk about time limits later.

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#41

Posted 25 July 2007 - 08:41 AM Edited by OrionSR, 25 July 2007 - 09:37 AM.

<Purple Palomino>

I messed around with the Palomino save a little.

I rolled the clock back an hour - loads at 16:30, goal is 21:00. It starts to get a bit dark for the final jump, but I like the colors so much at 21:00 that I didn't want to start any sooner. Hopefully you'll agree.

Biker CJ is now armed with a Pool Cue, and is equipped with Brass Knuckles. I think the other weapons are the same. How do you like the Desert Eagle? Everyone in the chain game seem to prefer the silenced pistol, but I like the Desert Eagle as my primary Give Me That Bike weapon.

I changed the colors on the Engineless NRG to the darkest purple I could find. They don't give us much to work with, but I think it looks pretty good with the colors of the evening sky. Oh yeah, be careful about tweaking the Engineless NRG with the garage editor feature the Control Center. The last time I tried it I got the engine back. Now I make it the current vehicle before changing the color.

I zeroed out the jumping stats with the save game editor. So I am making some progress.

But I got confused when the name I chose didn't fit in the space before the zeros. Based on your Badlands Endurance save name, I should be able to get Skipping Palomino to fit, but I wasn't sure what to do with the characters that currently occupy those bytes. So I gave up for the day and didn't get as far as trying to calculate a check sum.

<Alternate Katie Jumps>

So I had an idea about Katie Jumps, and tweaked one of your save files a little. See what you think about this idea.

Added: If you discard the idea included in the save above, then either of the Katie Jumps saves you posted should be fine. I only tried the engineless version today, but I suspect the normal NRG would be more appropriate for this challenge.

For the Lombard (Carlton Heights?) jump, I'm just barely making it with the route I'm using, but check out the path I used in my Hippy Shocker video. Scoring the jump on a Freeway was certainly difficult. Here' I'll cue it up for you. Oh, and thanks for the tips on the Stadium jump, I'm having much better luck now.

I'm fairly certain that saving resets the eating counter. CJ can go for weeks without food if you save often enough.

I'm not entirely happy with the Skipping name. Perhaps Insane Palomino would be a better choice. As far as the triple insane jumps, one is a unique jump I threw in later in the route that doesn't cross the river, and the 4th is the jump onto the pier, but I'm moving away from that in hope of getting a screenshot of something more dramatic. There is a flow to this event that makes it even more fun, but you'll need to work the bugs out of your route.






rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#42

Posted 25 July 2007 - 11:29 AM Edited by rubregg, 25 July 2007 - 05:06 PM.

Oops, I had just edited my last posting (removed now), seems I missed a page break and your reply.

Try this file for Badlands Endurance.

Midnight start and the best weather / light conditions I could get. I tried 'clear blue' and 'scorching hot' - they looked scenic but you can't really see your way too well at all, it's just too dark. The way it was in the last midnight save was actually the best I found and this time it'll stay roughly the same for a very long time. Race starts with 'very dull, colourless, hazy 2' (vdch 2) and stays within various other vdch x, with a few patches of 'blue, partly cloudy' around Los Santos. Back to vdch 2 on approaching Palomino Creek, where I then waited until 14:00 with no apparent change in weather. Sunrise looks nice in an unspectacular way and no rain or fog in sight. This one might be ready for release, if you're alright with it.

Thanks for the tips, I'll try them out on your new file.

As for save game names, yup, it's not completely clear to me what those other bytes are. In some files they appear sooner, in other files there's more filler 00s. If there's just 00s, you can overwrite them. If there's other stuff too, I don't know. Worth a try and see what happens...

Update
I tried both your files. I like the colour you picked for the engineless NRG in Skipping Palomino, so that file would be finished too. Let me know which name you prefer and I'll rename it. The thing you did to the Katie Jumps file is cool, but unfortunately shows the biggest drawback of the save game editor, that you can only set the armour to 100. I like that you get to the action quicker, but I'm missing the racing bit from LS to SF. But maybe we can include that in some other challenge. What do you think, should we put a grove green NRG into Doherty garage and set it up like this?

Yes, your route into the Lombard St. jump seems better than the one I used. I'm still not sure how to connect my jumps. The extra one I put in goes well as a lead-in to the supermarket jump, but I never really know where to fit in the 2 downtown jumps.



Update
Found 14 jumps in Skipping Palomino after all, but there's *no* way I can do them all within the time limit, so I have to figure out which ones to drop. Updated the map at the link I pmed you earlier. Sky is fine, save file is fine, only thing that isn't fine is the time limit you gave us... lol.gif ...nah, just need more practice. Cool challenge!

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#43

Posted 25 July 2007 - 11:51 PM Edited by OrionSR, 26 July 2007 - 05:10 AM.

The goals for the Skipping Palomino Rally are still up for evaluation. Let me know if you think anything needs to be changed. I'm still stuck on the name. I keep thinking of things like Winged Palomino, or something with Pegasus in the title, anything with an equestrian twist to it, but I'm not hitting on anything that really gets at the heart of the challenge. Sorry, I'm anxious to finalize our current saves as well. I'll try to put a little more thought into it today.

NRG Efficient
Energy Conservation
Palomino Rapids
Palomino Downs
Skip the Palomino


Thanks for the update for Badlands Endurance. I'll give it a shot and let you know if I find anything of concern, but I strongly suspect that one is done. This save looks really good. The moon is much more visible during most of the race. The potential problem is that without any money at the start of the race, the hookers won't get in the car, so the Pro Driver achievement is a wash. But that was a pretty lame idea anyway. Were we going to try to find a save for this event without the gangs?

Katie Jumps - descriptive, but not a very creative name. Any suggestions? Maybe Katie's Bones (as in Jumping Katie's Bones - does that translate well to a reference for... Coffee?). Having less than full armor where it loads didn't end up making much of a difference. CJ was always taking a few hits upon loading, so I was snagging an armor on the way north to top it off, and would be just as likely to do the same even if it started at 150. Or perhaps just skip it. Full armor isn't needed unless things go horribly wrong, and then I'm not going to make it as far as the airport anyway. Saving without full armor seems a little strange to me. Still, I really like getting the quick start on this challenge. The new starting point saves 2 minutes of travel at the beginning of each attempt. Given two saves with almost identical setups, except for the starting point and time, which file do you think you would be most likely to load when you wanted to break your current record? When you decide on a preference, make that the final save for the rally. Anyway, I feel sort of bad for making such a major change after you put so much effort into the other saves. Again, whatever you decide will be fine by me.

Sorry, I nodded off while composing, and probably missed you for the day.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#44

Posted 26 July 2007 - 05:20 AM

Actually, so far I like "Skipping Palomino" best of all the names. And "Katie Jumps" is very good I think, short and descriptive. I'd be happy with both.

I had the idea of releasing a map of all (or just some of) the jumps with the "Skipping Palomino" (no routes, just possible jumps), so players get a little help in figuring out the challenge. What do you think of that? I still can't say too much about the goals yet because most of my efforts went into actually finding the jumps so far. Still have to decide on my route and then get onto the timing thing...

Oh, seems I forgot about the idea with the hookers in Badlands Endurance. I can try to make the same file again, with some cash. I never really followed on that idea - won't a passenger increase the weight, so you'll be slower and the jumps get more difficult? But that's the idea, I guess...

As for 'Katie Jumps' -
QUOTE
Given two saves with almost identical setups, except for the starting point and time, which file do you think you would be most likely to load when you wanted to break your current record?
Ok, if I look at it this way, I'd certainly load the save that starts at Doherty. Also it's a sweet "whooaah-wtf" effect when you first load it, at least it was for me. Let's put the 'grove green' NRG there and use that one then. Don't worry, no actual work on the save files was 'lost' - especially not if we end up having nice weather. Also I'm thinking about using the engineless NRG for Katie Jumps too. It's such a special bike and you went through so much trouble to spawn them... We could ride to Doherty & park it there and then make a save like yours?

(I followed up on your hotkey idea in the Control Center and spawned myself 100ish NRGs yesterday, sure as hell all had their engines. And sorry for forgetting to warn you about editing the engineless NRG while it's in the garage, seems we made the same experience there... wink.gif )

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#45

Posted 26 July 2007 - 06:57 AM Edited by OrionSR, 26 July 2007 - 07:05 AM.

Okay, lets go back to the Skipping Palomino idea. FYI, the name is supposed to conjure images of the advanced dressage movement called Tempi - or more specifically, One-Tempi. I had to look this up, and it took a while to find. My ex-wife was really into horses so I picked up a few things vicariously.

The basics (sort of): IIRC, a horse prefers to have the left foot forward when cantering to the left, and will change to the other foot when turning right. Switching is called a flying lead change, and continually changing leads every stride is called One-Tempi; it looks an awful lot like the horse is skipping. Since this is an advanced skill of one of the most technical styles of riding, it seemed appropriate for the challenge. Oh, and palomino is a color of horse - cream colored with a light mane and tail.

Skipping Palomino seems appropriate, and I can't find a good way to work in the Tempi name. Tempi Creek, One-Tempi Palomino, Palomino Tempi, all seem a little forced. Skipping is a synonym for jumping, so I guess it all fits. And how many GTA players are going to get the Tempi reference anyway? The only alternative I can think of is to take the dressage movement reference a step higher and go with Airs Above the Ground - a fighting style for horses where they jump, kick, rear, and lunge as part of a battle strategy. If you've ever seen a Lipizzan show then you know what I'm talking about.

One last comment on horses: A few years ago, there was a beer commercial with a very clever line from an old-timer sitting in the corner of a dusty Saloon that looked like it came straight out of an old Western movie. "A hundred years from now, only little girls will ride horses." For some reason this still strikes me as particularly funny.

From Horses to Whores: Forget the Pro Driver achievement, it's not that big of a deal. The time limit is so tight that I'm not going to waste 15 seconds trying to get one in the car - again. I did get the pigtailed blond into the car on an earlier save, and could only see her on the Dillimore slomo cam. However, she seemed to think the garage was secluded enough for a little action. Besides, there aren't that many peds at midnight, so finding one took quite a few tries.

Great. That's the reaction I was hoping for with the alternate starting point for Katie Jumps (keep the name). I figured you'd be able to come up with a suitable plan quickly enough to manage the situation. If you decide to tweak the file with the other bike, don't make the mistake I did and fiddle with the weapon skill. The message pop-up is really annoying. Or, tweak everything before heading off to SF with the bike. Or, maybe tweak the pilot skill after saving so the players get notice that the airport gate will open for access to those jumps.

One thing I noticed on the map of the Katie Jumps save is that there are a couple of patches in SF that aren't grayed out, and there is no path in to explain it. It looks like you were using a teleport tool. I know that you were, but it looks kind of odd. Moving the engineless NRG would solve this problem. Perhaps circumnavigating the island would provide better detail for players.

Stick a cop bike or PCJ in the Johnson garage and try the spawning trick there. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe the high detail map in that area enables the glitch. But I did read a few reports of people finding an engineless NRG at the docks, so I don't know. It's probably random.

Back to Palomino: I suspect some hints about the jumps would be a good idea for the Palomino Rally. It took you a couple of days to make the survey, how many people will want to put in that much effort? And even with a map, it will probably take a while to figure out how to land them properly, so it's not that much of a spoiler.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#46

Posted 26 July 2007 - 11:10 PM Edited by rubregg, 05 October 2007 - 07:41 PM.

Just had a few more tries between work and dozing off, so for tonight I'm only saying this: Yay!

11 creek jumps, 3 Triple Insanes, 3 uniques (incl. the last at the yacht harbour), but no splashing sound this time.

biggrin.gif

[Edit: fixed dead link to screenshot]

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#47

Posted 27 July 2007 - 06:53 AM Edited by OrionSR, 27 July 2007 - 11:29 AM.

QUOTE (rubregg @ Jul 26 2007, 16:10)
Just had a few more tries between work and dozing off, so for tonight I'm only saying this: Yay!

11 creek jumps, 3 Triple Insanes, 3 uniques (incl. the last at the yacht harbour), but no splashing sound this time.

biggrin.gif

Sweet! You even got the colors I was hoping for in the screenshot. Well done. See, I told you that time limit was realistic. However, I neglected to point out that going for the triples tends to slow things down a lot. When I'm going for speed runs, or trying to include extra jumps, I try to land my jumps as cleanly as possible.

Katie Jumps: I'm finding it difficult to plan a good route between the northern jumps. The random roadblocks get especially bad if CJ spends too much time near Katie's house, so I frequently find I need to return to that area to clean up some jumps and trying to work that into a good plan. I've developed multiple routes between the jumps, and try to connect them as best I can. I had enough time to get 13 jumps on one run, but the gate didn't open so I had to rework that save. I've made it as far as the auto dealer's pay'n'spray without painting, and could have made another jump or two without exploding, but the bike wouldn't have survived into the airport. Even without much damage from bullets or collisions, the impacts from the jumps eventually wear it down.

Have you given any thought to archiving the saves we've been working on? If we develop a glitch along the way it would be nice to revert to one of the earlier saves instead of starting over, and the SnP llinks won't last forever.

<NRG-500 - Katie Jumps Alt Start with Engineless NRG and Medic Uniform>

I made another attempt at setting up an alt start for Katie Jumps. I just moved the bike on the engineless save you posted and rolled back the clock (and tweaked the weapons a little). I tried it a few times, getting to Katie's before 12:00 is a bit tricky, but it can be done with a few seconds to spare. I think Scorcher weather is in place on this save as well - purple sky and mountain. I'm not sure I like this weather as much as another choice, but the main thing is that it didn't rain clear through til morning. I'm still not sure how persistent the weather is, the Control Center keeps messing with stuff when I don't want it to.

Oh, got a new shortcut key - spawn a Dinghy. I suck at this cheating crap, but I'm starting to figure it out.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#48

Posted 27 July 2007 - 10:55 AM

uh-oh - I *so* did not get *any* reference to horses. But that's possibly because all I know about them is that they have 4 legs and people ride them blush.gif Well, I've lived in cities all my life and haven't had a horse-loving girlfriend yet... Interesting stuff there, thanks for the input.

Yes, the control center... I've grown to like it too, in the same sense as I now understand why these things are called 'trainer'. It helped me so much in practicing my jumps for Skipping Palomino and I think I used it a lot more these last couple of days than in the two years before that altogether. So I programmed teleport locations to the lead-ins to all my jumps and gave them hotkeys. Another hotkey to spawn an NRG plus a damageproof CJ - and that's how I parcticed all those jumps. Very, very helpful.

You mentioned the control center doing weird things to your game - you may have hit default hotkeys by mistake, it happened to me a lot too. I only recently found out that you can deactivate/activate hotkeys. So I deactivated *all* of them (there's quite a few default ones) and only activated the ones I put in. This seems to have helped a lot.

Since you asked, yes, I actually archived all of those save games, at least the important stages. It would be too bad to lose all the work. Since I was figuring out things like weather along the way, I even kept some notes. I know the gtasnp files won't stay forever, but once we got finalized saves and ask Samutz nicely, he might make them permanent.

Now for the races:

Badlands Endurance
Ah, right, the no-gangs idea. Yes, maybe should get back to that...


Katie Jumps

Ok, so a Doherty start it is then. The time is fine, I could just so make it to Katie's house before 12:00 too. We can keep the extra award for getting there before 12:00. I'm not so sure about the weather though. 'Scorching Hot' isn't going too well for me, the shadowy bits (e.g. backyard alleys) are far too dark. Maybe that's because I'm going on really low graphics settings (I have to, on my pc)? Maybe we can try a different starting weather. Like I said before, the starting weather didn't seem to affect the coming of rain or fog in my tries.

As for weapons, like I said before I'd like to stick closer to the original file. Not for personal reasons but for the tie-in to the chain game, where the original file came from.

Did we have any medal standards for this one yet? 10 jumps for gold, 9 for silver and 8 for bronze? Extra awards: get to Katie's before 12:00 / keep the green bike intact / that jump in Chinatown. Plus Triple Insanes maybe?


Skipping Palomino

Even now that I managed to do it a couple of times, I still think this one is pretty hard. So we agree on publishing a map with jumps, good (I'll get into that later). I'm still not sure about the timing and the medal standards. Consider this - if we leave the timing but start an hour earlier, what sky do you think the contestants will see more, orange/on time or purple/coming late? Also most players will probably have better light for their last one or two jumps this way. I do admit I just like the orange sky better - you seemed to be pretty sure about going for the purple sky though, so in that case we would have a final save?

As for medal standards, what about 11 jumps gold / 9 silver / 7 bronze, with sticking to the 4:30 time limit? Bringing bronze and silver a bit closer and all...? As in, let's not put people off it by seeing the medal standards alone? lol.gif

Or, going back to my suggestion of starting one hour earlier, we could connect racing time and jumps, something like:
gold = 11 jumps / 4:30
silver = 9 jumps / 4:30 OR 11 jumps / 5:00
bronze = 7 jumps / 4:30 OR 9 jumps / 5:00 OR 11 jumps / 5:30

Probably too complicated...

Anyway, 12 jumps could be platinum, 13 platinum plus, etc... But are 13 or more actually technically achievable within the time limit? Let's keep all your suggested extra awards. I like the 'Survivor' idea lol.gif


OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#49

Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:29 PM Edited by OrionSR, 27 July 2007 - 12:39 PM.

Moved from previous message since I change it after you posted.

With a little practice, getting to Katie's by 12:00 wasn't that difficult after all. To make it more of a challenge, perhaps add arriving with Full Armor before 12:00 part of the requirement. It can be done, but it's quite a race. Also, I manage 13 jumps completed with 14 found. The ped bridge toward the stadium is still giving me problems. The lean forward trick doesn't appear to work very well with a passenger. I missed it on that run, skipped it and did the other stadium jump, both airport jumps, and had time to circle back and fail that ped bridge jump again before Katie ran off. Still had the Grove Green bike in fairly good repair and hadn't used the garage - no time to spare. What do you think about going with B8/S10/G12/P14 for the medals?

I tried tweaking the engineless alt start for Katie Jumps with Blue, partly cloudy 2, but it kept reverting to scorching. I'm wondering if these saves are stuck that way. My other thought was about zeroing out the money - but I can't decide. Maximizing the cash by completing more jumps, or putting on fancier stunts, might make an interesting addition for this challenge. It also occurs to me that this file might make a useful practice/challenge save for snapshots, NRG-Challenge, and Hippy Shopper.


I was wondering about using teleporting to access the jumps. Maybe I should resist the temptation. I don't want to get too dependent on these tools. But my though is, can we share the teleport configurations?

I'm not sure what to think about the goals for Palomino. I like the idea of having a single time limit for all the standards, and including more jumps to earn a higher medal. That would almost be necessary considering how quickly it gets dark starting at 20:00, but it doesn't really get too purple until it's almost 21:00. There is something about the darkening sky that adds an urgency to the end of the race and provides a 1 minute warning that the time limit is drawing near.

Perhaps a 5:00 time limit, so bump the clock back another 00:30, would be a good idea. I was trying for a reasonable time limit that would provide for a mistake or two, perhaps resulting from triple insane jumps, or allow time to throw in some extra perks along the way. I'm stuck on this one. You've brought up the insane time limit on a number of occasions, and I don't want to be unreasonable on this, but I think 11 jumps can be completed in 4 minutes, so I'm not sure that 5 minutes would qualify as a gold standard. I'd certainly be willing to try out some different start times to see how they look and feel.

Sorry, didn't pay attention to you comment about keeping the time limit at 4:30. So... I guess try out 2 more saves and compare the three; loads at: 16:30, 16:00, and 15:30.



rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#50

Posted 28 July 2007 - 08:31 AM Edited by rubregg, 28 July 2007 - 08:36 AM.

Skipping Palomino

Forget my moaning about the time limit. I had a few more practice tries yesterday (couldn't post before I went to sleep, the forum seemed down) and yes, I now think it's fine. On my cleanest run, with 11 jumps and no Triple Insanes, I managed to make it by 20:35. Yes, you do need some practice, but once you got the hang of the route, it's doable.

It hardly allows for mistakes though. On a clean run it's ok, but if you fall off just once, you're already in trouble. That's what made me think of the overtime idea in the first place.

New idea: Start at 16:00, finish at 21:00 and make the medals:
- gold: 11 jumps with 2 triple insanes
- silver: 9 jumps with 1 triple insane
- bronze: 7 jumps

Or, alternately, 1 triple insane for gold and 1 double insane for silver, but I like the above better.

Now for 2 technicalities:
The way the NRG is parked in the garage I get *really* odd camera behaviour exiting the garage. So I tried a position a little bit closer to the wall, this works a lot better for me.

The other thing is of minor importance, but maybe we shouldn't have the mission marker for the Wu Zi Mu race in this event? That would mean going on in the storyline (until the Catalina marker at Fern Ridge is gone too)...

Hey, I've got some time left before work, so I'll quickly get on this and update this with a savefile a little bit later.

In the meantime, here's an idea for an additional 'extra award': Roofie (finishing screenshot within the time limit while on that roof)


Katie Jumps

Yes, that lean-forward trick for the jump over the freeway doesn't seem to work all the time. It's probably a timing thing. Sometimes I use it at other jumps too, and sometimes it catapults me really up high where as other times nothing happens.

With your suggested medal standards, I can just so do bronze sort-of consistently and made silver once so far. But I haven't had so much practice yet, so let me get back on this later.

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#51

Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:37 AM Edited by OrionSR, 28 July 2007 - 09:42 AM.

Katie Jumps

I'm kind of holding off on working on this event at the moment. I had a pretty good run and think I might be able to ace all 14 jumps, but I'd like to wait until I had something a little closer to a final save. I'm not sure what to do about the weather. It seems stuck, but I only made a couple of attempts to tweak it to anything other than scorching. Is the weather related to the in-game days? What do you think about going back to zero cash for the alt start on Katie Jumps? It would pretty much force 1 jump before painting, but that isn't such a big deal anymore. I suppose it would be too annoying if you got a flat and couldn't even get started.

Skipping Palomino

What do think about losing the SMG for this event? Weapons aren't needed, and it might look cool if CJ was riding without a machine gun showing.

I played around with some of the recent jump discoveries this evening. I wanted an excuse to include some of the new jumps so I invented a challenge for myself. Jump the river 11 times but don't cross any bridges. The other rules still apply, but some additional time appears to be required. Best I could manage was 5:45. Part of the trick was avoiding a 12th crossing, but I'm not sure it saved me any time. I was trying out an early start, but didn't give it a fair shot. I kept trying to include more stuff instead of finish quickly.

Then I settled in for another settle in for some speed runs with the standard 16:30 load time. I combined some of the shortcuts you brought to my attention, some of the new stuff I came across recently, and took a guess at what would be the fastest combination of jumps. I got a screenshot that is nice and orange.

user posted image

I added up the points from 25 jumps and an extra half point for the extra directions. Total possible points was 30.5. I'm thinking of combining the N/NE direction on North of Bridge to NNE and rounding it out at an even 30.

I agree. The extra mission icons are a distraction for this event. I noticed the weird camera thing as well, but appreciated being able to jump-mount the bike through the opening garage door. I'm still stuck on the medals. It seems to me that people will shoot for 11 jumps, and then work on time, or possibly stunts, after they find their favorite route. What would be metal standard that would mark the natural progression.

Badland Endurance

I'm fairly happy with this save. But a final save is waiting on a solution to the gangs.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#52

Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:53 AM

Was just going to update when I spotted your posting. So here:

Update: I tried, but couldn't get the weather right. Damn weather... lol.gif So let's stick with your file, you got the weather exactly the way we want it. Try this file here for the altered bike position, it's your file with the bike slightly moved.

Skipping Palomino (alternate bike position)

Losing the smg for skipping palomino is fine, I had the same thought... Let's also lose the brass knuckles. For jumping events I sometimes set the fat stat to 10% - superstitious about making CJ lighter helps for the jumps.

Got to rush to work now and will be away for the rest of the day...

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#53

Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:18 PM Edited by OrionSR, 29 July 2007 - 05:04 AM.

Skipping Palomino (using alt bike position - looks fine)

Added:
<Skipping Palomino - new bike position - no knuckles or uzis>

<Skipping Palomino - new bike position - no knuckles or usis>


I spent a little more time trying to push the limits of this event while my skills are still sharp.

14 Jumps - standard 4:30 time limit. I have a non-crossing route with 15 jumps, but I can't see any way to fit the extra jump within the time limit.

user posted image

11 Jumps Without Crossing Bridges (6:00 time limit)

user posted image

I'm thinking about going back to a simpler medal standard for this event. What do you think about holding the jump count at 11?

Platinum: 3:30 (20:00)
Gold: 4:30 (21:00)
Silver: 6:00 (22:30)
Bronze: 7:30 (00:00)

Any stunts, additional jumps, bridge restrictions, splashing, etc. can be part of the achievements. This would make it easy to set a standard like, "earn a silver medal without crossing any bridges."

Roofie Achievement

You mean something like this?

user posted image
This image is an example and is not being submitted for the award.


Added: Scorched Earth


<Katie Jumps - Blue, Partly cloudy 2>
<Katie Jumps - Blue, Partly cloudy 2>


I messed around with the Katie Jumps save a little more. I took a tour of the island and un-grayed the map. I was hoping that killing some time might change the weather, but it didn't seem to help. So I tried starting side-missions, BMX, and Firetruck didn't help, but after exiting from a failure in 8-Track the current weather had finally changed to Blue, Partly cloudy 1, so I ran off to save. Then I forced Blue, Partly cloudy 2 using the little check box, saved, and tweaked the starting position and armor. I think I've got a working Katie Jumps save with sticky Blue, Partly cloudy weather.

Hopefully this method for fixing the weather will pan out. Identify the desired weather using the control center. If the weather is currently stuck, then un-stick it with 8-Track or other missions that do the same thing. Select the desired weather, check the box, and save. Un-check the box so it doesn't mess up anything else you are working on.

With that in mind, it might be possible to stick the Scorching Hot 1 weather back on that save you had tweaked for Skipping Palomino without the mission icons along the route.


Possible Achievement: Silver Bullet - load the Badlands Endurance save and complete Skipping Palomino with the Black Bullet and a Silver Medal time (6:00)

And another thought along the lines of the Roofie achievement. Another good place to pose is on top of the billboards in the area.


OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#54

Posted 29 July 2007 - 10:06 AM

Desert Starter Saves


I'm thinking about desert rallies and was trying out some different saves. I'm just testing ideas with these saves, there's no event or anything to go with them yet.

<Toreno's Ranch>

Based on the NRG-500 Chain-Game save we've been toying with for Katie Jumps. I completed Dirt Track to rename the save so my temp files would be less likely to get confused. Loads at the Ranch in Tierra Robada. Usually the Monster, Black Sanchez, and maybe the Washington will spawn upon loading. This location is right on top of a road with light traffic.

<Fort Carson>

Based on the 100% Chain Game save from round 16. I was just fiddling with things to see how the different options work. I'm not too happy with this save, but thought perhaps you should take a look at it. It might come in handy, but seems just a little too weird. Do you think something like this might be useful on an End of the Line save that wasn't 100%?

Checksum

I've devoloped a slightly different method for calculating the new checksums - sort of. It's exactly the same process with the order off operations switched a little.

(old checksum - sum of old string) + sum of new string = new checksum

I'm tracking the string sums since they tend to get reused, so it should save me the trouble of adding them up again. So far I've got:

Badlands Endurance - 6CE
Skipping Palomino - 6A4
Katie Jumps - 41D

NRG-500 - 1A9
Against All Odds(+) - 6C9 (included some stray characters)
Dirt Track - 3A8
End of the Line - 4D5

Fort Carson - 421
Toreno's Ranch - 51D

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#55

Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:43 AM Edited by rubregg, 29 July 2007 - 11:56 AM.

Skipping Palomino

Hmm, actually I've got used to and grown to like the 'fixed time - variable no. of jumps' idea you initially suggested.

So what, you're doing 14 jumps within 4:30 now?? You're insane, mate lol.gif Also, I'll have to figure out how you got up that roof of yours, nice one biggrin.gif

Weather Editing

I was also going to suggest to temporarily increase the 'game speed' to make the weather change quicker, until you get to the conditions you want. Haven't had a chance yet to properly try it out though.


Checksums

QUOTE (OrionSR)
(old checksum - sum of old string) + sum of new string = new checksum
Well, that's exactly what I'm doing, just shove the brackets and rearrange the sum.

Thanks for the summary of strings. May I add:

Against All Odds (no extra characters) - 5AA
The Green Sabre - 53F
Redsands Westking - 6A0


I'll be out for most of the day & at work tonight, but I'll now have a look at your files.

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#56

Posted 29 July 2007 - 11:45 PM Edited by OrionSR, 30 July 2007 - 08:30 AM.

Game Save Names

<San Andreas Save Name Calculator v1.1>


I'm using the Excel spreadsheet linked above to help me change the checksums for the name changes. The functions used will probably require the Analysis ToolPak add-in (Tools menu, Add-Ins...). The current process involves entering the old string, new string, and old checksum, and then copying or clearing the cells with functions to account for different length strings. The spreadsheet will extract each character, convert it to decimal, and calculate the new checksum. It also shows the bytes in hex for reference, but the hex stringsums are not used in any calculations.

Update:

<Badlands Endurance - no Catalina, no gangs>


I think I found a solution to the gangs shooting up the Bullet in Badlands Endurance. Then I finished off the Catalina missions to get her off the hill, but left the Wu Zi Mu race available. Cash is now $20 - the minimum required before a hooker will get in the car. I think I got all the stats reset correctly. This save will default to Small Town Bank. This is the natural weather on this save, and I think it looks as good as could be expected. Oh, and I changed his clothes.

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#57

Posted 30 July 2007 - 08:37 AM Edited by rubregg, 30 July 2007 - 08:41 AM.

Your suggestion about the weather seems to work. Have a look at this file:

<Skipping Palomino (no mission markers)>

It's not perfect - the marker for the trucking missions is still there. If we want that one gone too, I'd have to play the complete SF storyline too to unlock LV and get rid of the trucking missions... But we *might* have to do that anyway, I'm thinking of the gang-less Badlands Endurance. Or do you have an idea how we could get rid of the gangs with the tools at hand...?? Update: Yay, more cross-posting biggrin.gif .... so how did you get rid of the gangs then?

I found some odd behaviour of your last Katie Jumps file - I cannot use the fast-food stalls, no red marker appears. Not for all of them, but for most, and it's not even consistent (over reloads) which ones that are.

I'll have a look at your spreadsheet - I'll have to see if it all works though, because I don't have Excel, I'm using Open Office. I bet you cannot save to 'open document' format in Excel, right? I was also thinking of automating the renaming process. Shame that it's far too long ago since I did my last real programming, I currently don't even have any compilers around... blush.gif The logic would be rather easy I guess. Ah well, not that big a deal, as long as we can do it at all...

OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#58

Posted 30 July 2007 - 10:39 AM Edited by OrionSR, 30 July 2007 - 09:07 PM.

Palomino Mission Markers: The trucking mission only shows when CJ is close, so that's no different than a pay'n'spray or burgershot. The only marker on the map is The Truth, and that icon is so far away that it might be a good reference marker for jump angles or something.

Katie Jump red circles: That's disappointing, but it shouldn't be difficult to unstick the weather from the other save and try again.

< Katie Jumps - revert >

Update: I tried tweaking the Katie Jumps save again and got the same problem with the vendors. So instead I loaded the 1st save I posted with the Engineless NRG and started over again. The vendors and other red circles appear to be functioning properly. The natural weather pattern is being used, it seems like it should do nicely. There's a brief bit of fog before dawn, but otherwise cycles between hazy and a few different Blue partly cloudy variations.

Badlands Endurance: Can't guess? I used the save editor to enable gang wars and then took over all of the territories before turning them off again. There are lots of grove homies roaming the streets of LS now. This seems like a rather brutal fix. It might work for this event, but I'm not sure about reusing it too much or progressing the plot.

Excel vs Open Office Spreadsheet: Let me know how well the Excel file translates. If it gives you trouble I'll take a whack at in on the Linux partition on my laptop. Update: OpenOffice seems to handle the spreadsheet without any trouble at all.

The relevant functions are:

mid - extract characters from a string
code - char to dec
(char - dec to char)
hex2dec
dec2hex

rubregg
  • rubregg

    brainslug

  • Members
  • Joined: 03 May 2006

#59

Posted 30 July 2007 - 11:05 PM

Yeah, your excel spreadsheet loads well in open office, no problems there. Nice one, well done! Unfortunately I was just starting to look at it when I got called into work (on my day off) because someone called in sick. Just home and about to drop into bed now, but tomorrow I *will* have the day off. Hearhear, linux partition on the laptop... (my desktop runs on linux; mainly server functions; opensuse 10.2)

Oh, and I think it should be possible to share teleport locations or shortcuts from the control center. If you 'save to config file' they'll be written to a .dat file in the program folder.

GTASALocs.dat -- teleport locations
GTASAConfig.dat -- shortcuts



OrionSR
  • OrionSR

    Chain Game Development Team

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 May 2007
  • None

#60

Posted 31 July 2007 - 03:31 PM Edited by OrionSR, 31 July 2007 - 03:57 PM.

<Desert Tour>

I was considering options for desert rallies and I'm making some progress on an interesting idea. The Desert Tour is a summary of those efforts. I have a few more ideas I want to try out, but I'm still in the experimental stage so everything is taking a long time to figure out.

Please load the save and take the tour, it doesn't take long. Access and explore around the Fort Carson safe and Toreno's Ranch House. Be sure to check out the top of the hill to the north of the ranch.

You too, JAJ. I've got some questions for you about this stuff.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users